Meadow of Sorrow Mafia - Game Over! Town Wins

Toaster Strudel · Post Post #1075 (ISO) » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:53 am

Skruffs wrote:TS - you should not try to get someone lynched for doing things that you yourself have done. Like the less than two hours it took for SV to put BB at -1 last thursday? Why didn't that seem suspicious to you?

I know that, but there is a major difference - BB is like, so scummy, it hurts. SV's vote did seem hasty, and suspicious, and I did make a mental note of it, that SV was potential scum. But BB's wacky behavior (totally inconsistent with a role of "survivor"), his refusal to claim for making the game too easy, and the fishy claim that was like pulling teeth do him in to completely that I think SV was simply voting off the scum.

Conversely, dahen voted for me and declared that he would "not vote for BB today." Are you kiddin' me? How could anyone NOT vote for BB??? Haha.
When you put things in context, SV's quickvote for BB, while admittedly suspicious, is far less overtly scummy than dahen and BB teaming up against me. But I am well aware of SV's quick vote.

Toaster Strudel · Post Post #1076 (ISO) » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:55 am

Oh, a small point:

"you should not try to get someone lynched for doing things that you yourself have done"

Did you mean:

"you should not try to get someone (dahen) lynched for doing things that someone else (SV) has also done?"

Skruffs · Post Post #1077 (ISO) » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:56 am

Okay next post.

FOS SPECTRUMVOID

I think either SV and TS are scum together, or SV is scum with BB. TS and BB are not scum together - probably - but I can see SV as scum with either.

I read through SV's posts and she's been guiding the town consistently into hunting for criminals, avoids speculating - or even really discussing - the satanics at all - and has been fossing and prodding at dahen a whole bunch since dahen claimed their role.

Dahen is not the play today (not that he was the play for today anyways). If the item that dahen gave me kills me tonight - and i show up with the pentagram in the morning and all that jazz, than dahen has to be the killer, AND MUST BE LYNCHE, but i don't think that's the case.

I really, really think SV is the correct play today. If there is a scum pairing - SV is in it. If there's not, than BB is a sole operator and we can lynch him tommorrow.

This is really hard to finalize thoughts on - I"m normally very wishy washy, and try to give peole the benefit of the doubt.

While BB is the more obvious lynch - and trust me - I have no reason to think he's telling the truth about his claim, AT ALL, I don't want to risk that he's actually telling the truth, and lynch a survivor, when there's possibly a TS/SV scum pair.

aRgh.
Maybe BB is the right lynch for the day?

*frustrated*

Skruffs · Post Post #1078 (ISO) » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:58 am

You make some good points. To be honest I am not so sure you are scum, i think SV is being a mastermindy scum, and bussing her buddy to get dahen lynched in the morning.

But I am not sure, which mkaes it hard.
Lunch, then ni'll vote.

spectrumvoid · Post Post #1079 (ISO) » Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:02 am

Skruffs: So you're going to not go after BB whose claim you don't believe? I find that extremely hard to believe.

I've been poking at dahen because I've been thinking he's scummy. I thought me thinking he was scummy was obvious from the way I've been poking at him

Dahen is not the play today (not that he was the play for today anyways). If the item that dahen gave me kills me tonight - and i show up with the pentagram in the morning and all that jazz, than dahen has to be the killer, AND MUST BE LYNCHE, but i don't think that's the case.

Way to set up the next day lynch, and way to help the scum decide on a night target.

spectrumvoid · Post Post #1080 (ISO) » Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:07 am

Skruffs: So you're going to not go after BB whose claim you don't believe? I find that extremely hard to believe.

I've been poking at dahen because I've been thinking he's scummy. I thought me thinking he was scummy was obvious from the way I've been poking at him

Dahen is not the play today (not that he was the play for today anyways). If the item that dahen gave me kills me tonight - and i show up with the pentagram in the morning and all that jazz, than dahen has to be the killer, AND MUST BE LYNCHE, but i don't think that's the case.

Way to set up the next day lynch, and way to help the scum decide on a night target.

In response to this:

I read through SV's posts and she's been guiding the town consistently into hunting for criminals, avoids speculating - or even really discussing - the satanics at all - and has been fossing and prodding at dahen a whole bunch since dahen claimed their role.

If you look at my posts in isolation, and do a 'find' option, you'll notice that I've avoided any mention of alignments. This is because of my role ability: since I knew alignments were untrustworthy, I did not think it was useful to discuss them.

I did not mention either satanics or criminals. In fact, in the first post where I talk about alignments, it's about the possibility of satanics being not from another scum group. I corrected this immediately when I realised we have more than one dead satanic.

I'm leaving my vote on because I've evaulated, and I don't believe BB's behaviour is consistent with her role claim.

Toaster Strudel · Post Post #1081 (ISO) » Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:40 am

Skruffs wrote:You make some good points. To be honest I am not so sure you are scum, i think SV is being a mastermindy scum, and bussing her buddy to get dahen lynched in the morning.

But I am not sure, which mkaes it hard.

Lunch, then ni'll vote.

Lo--_-OooOooooOoo0-0-0ng lunch, Skruffycakes!

Assuming that BB is scum, which isn't a big stretch of imagination, why would SV *rush* to bus her buddy?

I too have difficulty reconciling why you are adamant about not believing BB's, then his preposterous claim that is in direct conflict with his behavior, while condeming his stubborn refusal to claim, and yet, you can't bring yourself to hammer the scum.

In the same way that I found SV's quick vote suspicious, and kept it in the back of my mind, I am finding Skruff's paralysis to be scummy. What are you waiting for? A townie wagon to develop instead of the BB-scumwagon?

Lots of pressure on Skruffs, especially since dahen has solemnly declared that there's no way he's bussing his buddy today. Maybe tomorrow, haha.

Skruffs · Post Post #1082 (ISO) » Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:06 am

Toaster Strudel · Post Post #1083 (ISO) » Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:35 pm

Blackberry · Post Post #1084 (ISO) » Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:13 pm

I am a male -_-

Skruffs, I am not scum. Lynching me = bad, though I do love TS's image.

Skruffs · Post Post #1085 (ISO) » Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:51 pm

Zindaras wrote:TEOM isn't scum. I'm 100% sure about that, and I disagree very much with his lynch.

TEOM was replaced by blackberry. Zindaras was a 'psychic', which I can only assume is an investigative role.

I'm not going to vote for blackberry, though. If there's two satanics around, then no matter who we lynch, they win tommorrow. If there's one, they'll nightkill, it will be BB, the satanic, and a townie left, and still BB will be the deciding vote.

Nobody left alive is criminals. I don't think dahen is scum. I'm going to assume that Zindaras inspected TEOM and cleared him. Hopefully that's of being a satanic, too.
I think dahen and BB are both semi cleared, in my eyes, so I'm going to vote for one of TS or SV.

I don't really like how Dahen led BB to vote for TS, though, so I'm going to vote for SV.
Again, it will be after lunch.

BB - can you explain anything else about your role? My role has a description of my life and situation in the village and stuff. I'm assuming everyone's did. I don't buy that it just says "survivor no alignment" ... So fill us in.

dahen · Post Post #1086 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:21 am

I'm glad to see that the discussion is more nuanced now.
As you know I'm looking for pairings. Let's list all possible 10 pairings:

BB+dahen
BB+Skruffs
BB+SV
BB+TS
dahen+Skruffs
dahen+SV
dahen+TS
Skruffs+SV
Skruffs+TS
SV+TS

I think we can rule out all pairs that could have won by quick-lynching (dahen+Skruffs,dahen+SV,dahen+TS,Skruffs+SV,Skruffs+TS)

Pairs left:
BB+dahen
BB+Skruffs
BB+SV
BB+TS
SV+TS

Since BB has had two votes on him all day, he can be scum with anyone. The only pair that doesn't involve BB is SV+TS, since with any other pair, the other scum would probably have voted BB by now.

I'll continue in my next post.

dahen · Post Post #1087 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:29 am

Skruffs, do you agree with my simple reasoning above?

Skruffs wrote: I don't really like how Dahen led BB to vote for TS, though, so I'm going to vote for SV.

This is strange, since if I am scum, then I really must be scum with BB and I wouldn't care if TS or SV would be lynched. If I would be scum with SV then I would have voted BB ages ago, don't you think.

Also, I never told BB to vote for TS. I told him to vote for scum as you said. I did this on purpose to see how he would interpret it.

Toaster Strudel · Post Post #1088 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:52 am

Skruffs wrote:
Zindaras wrote:TEOM isn't scum. I'm 100% sure about that, and I disagree very much with his lynch.
TEOM was replaced by blackberry. Zindaras was a 'psychic', which I can only assume is an investigative role.

Good find.

But I would beware of godfatherific roles.

In fact... "survivor" is a great fake claim for a godfather.

Toaster Strudel · Post Post #1089 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:09 am

dahen wrote:Also, I never told BB to vote for TS. I told him to vote for scum as you said. I did this on purpose to see how he would interpret it.

You're making it up as you're going along.

Seriously.

The townies are trying to vote for scum, and the scum are pretending to try to vote for scum. What does telling a player to "vote for scum" change to this basic fact? You're making it sound like telling BB to "vote for scum" was some kind of deep complex strategy. Did you plan this for days, haha?

You did this on purpose to see "how he would interpret it?" Hahahaha. He might have thought this was an invitation to bus you, or vote for himself.

Of course, you must really be scum with BB. And you in fact don't care if anyone else is lynched, do you? You retrieved your vote after I pointed out how you inextricably involved yourself in a scumpair with BB. And no, you are not scum with SV.

You didn't need to tell BB who exactly to vote for. As long as he wasn't voting for either of you, who cares?

Toaster Strudel · Post Post #1090 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:18 am

Look at this post: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 027#565027 where BB says that DAHEN IS CONFIRMED.

Dahen is confirmed by sending a item to BB.

Blackberry, "Mr. I-never-claim-cuz-the-game-is-gonna-be-too-easy" declines to describe the item in question. He says that he did not receive the item.

WHAT???

Does that mean that the mod sent BB a message to notify him that he was NOT getting an item that night?

Dahen's claim is that he gives items that grant investigation immunity. He gave this item to Fritzler (???) and last night, he gave this item to BB??? BB, who hadn't claimed, and was acting super-scummy? Why does he keep giving the "item" to the scummiest player?

Unless there is no item, and dahen's claim is totally made up. If a townie player we all found scummy was investigated and found to be innocent, he could just say that he gave that person immunity so that we waste an investigation and maybe lynch the guy anyway.

So... I still think dahen is scum with BB, and BB is the godfather.

dahen · Post Post #1091 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:23 am

TS. I have never ever been so emotional in a mafia game ever. You just keep on being wrong and I don't know if you're doing it on purpuse. I have never claimed to have given BB an item. Why? Becuase I haven't given BB an item. Please take your time to actually read this game through. Or just the last day or two.

Skruffs · Post Post #1092 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:10 am

I received the item last night.
It's the *item* that clears Dahen in my eyes.

THe thing about dahen leading BB is that Dahen could potentially be scum leading BB to see if he'll vote who dahen votes for - BB did. True, SV could have jumped in to hammer.
I guess the only scum pairs I see - I could have hammered both TS or BB today - is SV and TS or BB and Dahen. Since Dahen and BB are partially cleared and there's really nothing clearing TS or SV - I am going to say that one of the two of you (TS and SV) are today's lynch.

I just think it more likely that SV is paired up with someone other than TS than TS is. TS doesn't really have any friends right now EXCEPT SV, and SV *could* be tied with BB and is bussing him.

Read the post - happy belated birthday, Dahen.

Dahen - it would be good to list all your targets so far in the game, regardless.

dahen · Post Post #1093 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:32 am

I think you make sense Skruffs.
If you are scum then you can really only be scum with BB, and if you are, then I don't think you would put this much energy into getting SV lynched instead of TS unless you know that this is a mislynch which would require you to be the only scum left. Even then I can't see why you would do such a thing. You are pretty much cleared from my point of view.

Of the possible pairs I wrote, there are only three left as I see it:
BB+SV
BB+TS
SV+TS
And I do agree that BB+TS is the most unlikely of these, making SV the most logical lynch.

spectrumvoid · Post Post #1094 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:56 am

Skruffs:
What is the so-called proof 'clearing' BB? Zindaras's 100% statement on TEOM? We had a role changer running around, probably an alignment changer running around, and we're going to trust the word of a psychic? I'm assuming that that's the reason we had so many pseudo-investigative roles.

Yes, I banged on Fritzler, due mainly Zindaras, but that was because he did act scummy, and I didn't know at that time that we had role changers.

I pretty much agree with this list:
Pairs left:
BB+dahen
BB+Skruffs
BB+SV
BB+TS
SV+TS

And since I know I'm not scum, BB is the obvious one.

Skruffs · Post Post #1095 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:47 am

Another very long lunch. If this wasn't possibly lylo I would have already vote by now, however, the end of the game could be near if we screw up. I'm sorry for drawing it out.

4 criminals
2 satanics
1 damned
2 more satanics (probably)
======
9/20 scum, or 45%.
That's high.
Add a neutral survivor and you get half of the town that, at best, doesn't want town to win.

Anyways, give me a little more time, I need to carefully reread and get a better feel.
Whoever scum is - you are doing a great game.

Blackberry · Post Post #1096 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:48 am

Are you confessing to being scum SV?

Toaster Strudel · Post Post #1097 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:48 am

@Skruffs: what was the item?

Could Skruffs be scum with BB? If that's true, then it's a good thing that dahen unvoted me quickly.

If SV is bussing BB, I don't think SV would have voted against BB *so quickly*.

If SV is bussing BB, how come she hasn't unvoted, now that the tide is turning, and Skruffs, quite wrongly I believe, now refuses to vote against BB?

Really guys... could Skruffs be scum with BB?

Toaster Strudel · Post Post #1098 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:54 am

If BB was town... he'd be dead already, no?.

I am town. If SV was scum, and had a scumbuddy, SV's scumbuddy would have hammered BB a long time ago.

Skruffs wrote:9/20 scum, or 45%.
That's high.
Add a neutral survivor and you get half of the town that, at best, doesn't want town to win.

Brilliant find.

Do we perhaps have only one scum left? If so I would lean towards a godfatherific BB.

Skruffs · Post Post #1099 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:08 am

spectrumvoid wrote:I'll claim. I'm a town aligned procurer. I investigate people at night to acquire knowledge about whether their alignment has been changed. Some sort of limited investigative role.

Hence, why I kept saying things like "I'm so confused about their alignment/kills" etc, I was trying to hint that we shouldn't trust the alignment of the people who are dead. Because there's obviously a role changer around.

This is also why I was wary of dahen earlier, and I kept asking him to respond, because I didn't think they'd be so many investigative roles. I backed off because I'm not very good with game balance so I'm wasn't sure, and because I didn't really have anything else to go on.

I have more results that I do not wish to reveal now, but I have investigated Zindaras and I know that his alignment is correct and unchanged, so I trusted his attack on Fritz and have been going after Fritz all day.