Mini 380: Artifacts- Game over

[DogMom]

Super. We've got 2 active votes for a NL, 2 inactive players, and one that "Has Nothing To Say".

[Nai]

Don't forget the one that keeps promising to say something.

[DogMom]

Yeah, the one that keeps promising to say something (Zindaras) is one of the 2 I had down as "inactive". Coron's the one that "Has Nothing To Say".

[Nai]

Then you're forgetting Apeiron or Shadowlurker :p

[DogMom]

Um. You're right; I forgot SL.

Whatever, in any case we still only have 2 active votes.

[ShadowLurker]

As for this thread, I think it would be best to do a No-Lynch and hope for only one, or zero, night kills tonight.

Why are you hoping for 0 night kills tonight if you're advocating no lynch. This makes no sense to me.


As I've said many many times before DogMom, I think Apeiron/Nai is the most reasonable scumpair. I think NL is a reasonable choice but even if we didn't want to, it doesn't look like we'll be able to avoid a NL anyway so I'm just letting it happen and crossing my fingers for night.

[Nai]

I'm hoping for 0 kills because even that gives us information. We can then go back over today and see what we can deduce.

[Nai]

EBWODP: Let's not forget, that'd also give us a free night for any helpful night actions.

[ShadowLurker]

I'm hoping for 0 kills because even that gives us information. We can then go back over today and see what we can deduce.

Why did you not go over the day

today

and try to deduce anything? How does 0 kills give us any information? What I basically just saw was you admit you were intentionally being unhelpful today.

EBWODP: Let's not forget, that'd also give us a free night for any helpful night actions.

You do realize that everyone has claimed everything and there's no actions other than possible passing artifacts tonight? The only way there would be usage of artifacts is if scum was lying and that'd mean scum was using artifacts which isn't very helpful.

Vote: Nai

This probably won't get anywhere but I like Nai more than NL now.

[Nai]

Are you intentionally misrepresenting me?

NOTHING has happened today, other than DogMom coming in. There's been a lot of milling about, a little talk about what we're doing, and a hell of a lot of lurking. There's very little to go over. However, now that we're under final deadline and working off of nothing, seeing how people act is very important. How they choose to deal with the situation of a potential Lynch or Lose.

For instance, your reaction right now is very interesting. You're intentionally mis-understanding me, and, when we're at Lynch or Lose, you're prepared to lynch another player without very much information. Your final line in your post is very telling. "This probably won't get anywhere but I like Nai more than NL now." You're aware that this isn't going to go anywhere. You know that 2/6 people are prepared for No Lynch in order to have better chances tomorrow. You know we're at Lynch or Lose, yet you are prepared to lynch someone, knowing that not many other people are going to agree with you. You say as much in your post.

As for night actions, there's a chance that someone didn't tell the whole truth about their artifacts (three people, that I remember, said they had one-time-ever artifacts. The other three weren't as far as I recall, and could help). I'd like to give those a chance, even if nothing good comes of it. What people say about their night actions tonight can help tomorrow.

In other words, we can gain a lot of information between now, end of day, and the morning tomorrow. We NEED information. We have NO time right now to make cases, refute cases, and generally act like good mafia players.

[ShadowLurker]

Found a lot of statements there that were fluffed/without a point.

VELY VELY INTELESTING!!

[Zindaras]

I'm sorry. Stuff kept happening.

@ Zindaras: So I'm assuming that you believe there are 2 scum left, yes? For a start of 3 Mafia, 1 Serial Killer, and 8 Town? That's what I'm seeing in your most recent post, that you think Nai and I are scumbuddies.

We must assume the worst. Worst-case scenario, we're in LyLo. Therefore, we must assume that we're playing in LyLo. Of course, it's not that important, as one should always attempt to catch scum.

Next, why are you suddenly not thinking SL is scum? Through darn near the whole game you are hammering away at "luna's scum" and then when SL replaced her it was "SL is scum". Suddenly here you kindasorta indicate that he might NOT be on your scumdar after all.
In response to Kelly Chen's question about it, you reply "Because apparently most people believe he's the Cop." Why would most people have believed that? He was holding a one-use-per-person Cop

artifact

, that he'd already used. He reported a townie result on MM as the result of his use of it. He'd already expressed an intention to pass it on, as well.
This smells very much of "I'm going to go with what everyone else says so as not to ping their scumdar." Niiiiiice.

If you'd have read my earlier posts (see Post 584), you'd have seen that I was 99% on Kelly and only 80% on SL, as I felt perfect's tell was far stronger than luna's. Also, the fact that the mod confirmed that SL had the Cop artifact, and he apparently started with it as well, feels like a town-tell to me. Also, his posting since replacing luna has felt better, overall. You are right, though. I shouldn't be skipping over SL just because he has a Cop artifact.

He obviously chose the latter. From the indications given, I'm certain that passing artifacts is done through the mod, so it's not like GL could send Stewie (at the time) a PM saying "I'm passing you this BOTTLE OF POISON, DON'T OPEN IT UNLESS YOU'RE SCUM" or anything.
And exactly how would he indicate that in-thread without revealing all to everyone, and therefore rendering it completely useless? Maybe he thought Stewie might be scum, or might pass it along to someone else. I don't know.

The moment MaMa became a confirmed townie (or at least very very likely town), GL should have spilled the beans.



I feel Apeiron/Nai is the most likely scumpair at the moment. I can't remember Apeiron saying anything. Jules got off the hook with his artifact claim, but we must ask ourselves if his artifact claim is really that strong.

I'm fairly sure on Apeiron. The second one is more difficult. Nai, DogMom and ShadowLurker all have something going for them, and something going against them.

ShadowLurker had that early luna thing. The Cop claim is interesting and useful, though the way he handled the artifacts are a bit meh-ishly. Nai had the artifact claim, but I still feel he has been overall fairly scummy in his behaviour with Coron, and the artifact doesn't clear him, of course, since the Mafia could've no killed to help him out. GL's handling of the bottle is suspicious to say the least, but DogMom is trying very hard, and people who try very hard tend to get pro-town points from me.

I don't know. I think a deadline extension and an Apeiron lynch would be helpful, but if not, we should No Lynch.

[Nai]

Well, there's a way to clear me, but I don't know if anyone at this point could help.

Was there anyone that used an ability that night that didn't get a response?

[Norinel]

End of Day Vote Count:

Nai- 2 (Apeiron, ShadowLurker)
No Lynch- 2 (DogMom, Nai)

Not voting (4): Everyone else

4 to lynch, 3 at deadline

Day 3

Time makes another decision for them, apparently to do nothing. Was it the right one? Only time can tell them that.

No lynch. It is now Night 4; send choices in 96 hours (Deadline Monday)

[Norinel]

Night 4:

Another one died today, and another powerful object went with him. I don't know where this is going. How much more of this are they going to let stand?

Coron (Townie) - stabbed Night 4. The Feather of Pegamel (flying pumpkin) has been lost. The full description is in the front post.

It is now Day 4; 5 alive means 3 to lynch.

[Nai]

So it seems the argument between me and Coron, at least on my side, was unfounded. We have 5 people alive, are definitely at Lynch or Lose, and have to make a decision today.

Can anyone answer my question? Was there anyone that had an artifact use the night I used mine that wasn't able to use it?

I also want to point out ShadowLurker's post at end of yesterday.

[Coron]

Good luck town.

[Zindaras]

I don't think I even attempted to use an artifact that Night.

Also, we're not definitely at LyLo. LyLo is worst case scenario, with 3 Mafia. Best case scenario is that there were only 2 Mafiates.

[Nai]

How can you say we're not at LyLo?

We probably started with 3 mafia. We've gotten rid of one. 2 mafia left. We have 5 people. One mislynch means it's 2 on 2, and we lose. We ARE at Lynch or Lose.

[DogMom]

The moment MaMa became a confirmed townie (or at least very very likely town), GL should have spilled the beans.

Absolutely. I completely agree with this. Why he didn't is beyond me. Actually...I have no idea why very experienced players join games then just...stop playing them, instead of asking for replacement. Town just lost a Newbie game thanks to behavior like that.

I feel Apeiron/Nai is the most likely scumpair at the moment. I can't remember Apeiron saying anything. Jules got off the hook with his artifact claim, but we must ask ourselves if his artifact claim is really that strong.

I don't think so, to be honest. The Ear, without the Hands, is a pretty much useless artifact. We can ask it stuff all the livelong day, and we won't get any answers from it, unless there's

yet another

artifact, linked to the Ear, that gives us answers for it, that we don't know about.
So I'm inclined to think that, once he figured out that the Ear wasn't going to give him any answers, he may as well pass it along to a townie, helping his townie-claim.

ShadowLurker had that early luna thing. The Cop claim is interesting and useful, though the way he handled the artifacts are a bit meh-ishly.

OK...I see that.

Nai had the artifact claim, but I still feel he has been overall fairly scummy in his behaviour with Coron, and the artifact doesn't clear him, of course, since the Mafia could've no killed to help him out.

I really don't see how using that "universal Roleblocker Trunk" supports a townie claim. Sure, town could have gotten it, but so could scum. That's a pretty neutral artifact.

GL's handling of the bottle is suspicious to say the least,

This is absolutely true. I wish he had been actually paying more attention to the game, or had asked for replacement FAR earlier.

but DogMom is trying very hard, and people who try very hard tend to get pro-town points from me.

Thanks...

Apeiron and Nai are really the scummiest 2, IMO.

[DogMom]

So it seems the argument between me and Coron, at least on my side, was unfounded. We have 5 people alive, are definitely at Lynch or Lose, and have to make a decision today.

Can anyone answer my question? Was there anyone that had an artifact use the night I used mine that wasn't able to use it?

I also want to point out ShadowLurker's post at end of yesterday.

What about it? He thought you posted mostly irrelevant fluff, and said so. And?

How can you say we're not at LyLo?

We probably started with 3 mafia. We've gotten rid of one. 2 mafia left. We have 5 people. One mislynch means it's 2 on 2, and we lose. We ARE at Lynch or Lose.

Innnnnteresting. You go from "probably" to "definitely" in one sentence.

As far as any

townie

knows, we

might

have started with 2 mafia, or 3. The only ones who would know for SURE whether or not we're at LYLO are...(wait for it)....

THE MAFIA.

(Yeah, you saw it coming, I know.)

How do you

know

for sure that "We ARE at Lynch or Lose"?

[ShadowLurker]

I'd just like to point out that the ONLY possible scum pairings are:

Nai/Apeiron
Nai/DogMom
Nai/Zindaras
Nai/ShadowLurker
Apeiron/Shadowlurker

because of yesterday's voting.

Note: This assumes 2 scum alive but I am almost sure we have 3 scum which makes your argument look silly Dogmom. We had two coppish artifacts, a doctor, reverse tracker, a vig that could only kill town, another viggish artifact, an artifact that could roleblock everyone in a night, (AND didn't roleblock a town) etc. If it was only 2 mafia and a SK to start with, the setup would be unbalanced in favor of town.

This means that if anyone thinks DogMom/Zindaras is scummiest, then Nai is still the best choice. The only time when Nai isn't the best choice is when you believe the scum pairing is Apeiron and I.

With that said, seeing as I know I'm not scum, I have to

Vote: Nai

.

[DogMom]

I'd just like to point out that the ONLY possible scum pairings are:

Nai/Apeiron
Nai/DogMom
Nai/Zindaras
Nai/ShadowLurker
Apeiron/Shadowlurker

because of yesterday's voting.

Now that's interesting. I'll have to check out the vote patterns, but that's interesting. Thanks for pointing that out.

Huh. Votes from yesterday:
Apeiron voted Coron, then Nai
ShadowLurker voted Apeiron, then unvoted
Zindaras didn't vote at all
Nai voted NoLynch*
I voted NoLynch

I'm not seeing the patterns you did. I'm going to have to think about it some more.

Note: This assumes 2 scum alive but I am almost sure we have 3 scum which makes your argument look silly Dogmom.

Well, sure, I'm ALMOST sure we started out with 2 scum because of the artifacts, but almost =/= absolutely.
However, yeah, I agree - we're in LYLO. It'd be pretty stupid to assume we're not, or that there's a chance we're not. That chance is, IMO, vanishingly small.

This means that if anyone thinks DogMom/Zindaras is scummiest, then Nai is still the best choice. The only time when Nai isn't the best choice is when you believe the scum pairing is Apeiron and I.

Huh. VERY interesting indeed.

*-Nai initially argued against NoLynch, saying it'd give us NO information, and then he did a complete 180 and started arguing for it. I thought that was interesting.

[Zindaras]

How can you say we're not at LyLo?

We

probably

started with 3 mafia. We've gotten rid of one. 2 mafia left. We have 5 people. One mislynch means it's 2 on 2, and we lose. We ARE at Lynch or Lose.

You defeat your own point.

Look, we should act like we're in LyLo, but just saying we're in LyLo is not a statement any townie could be able to make.



Also, SL, while your point is very valid, it's not one hundred percent full-proof. It assumes there are two scum left, which we don't know.

I'm not seeing the patterns you did. I'm going to have to think about it some more.

If Nai isn't scum and I'm not, I could've voted him and end the game. That's the way he looked at it. You can use the logic to determine the scumpairs.

[DogMom]

Ah, I see what happened. I missed SL's end-of-the-day Nai Vote, for some reason.
Which put Nai at 2, at the time, and at deadline we needed 3 to lynch. So the scumpairs basically were Nai-plus-<each person that didn't vote him> or
<the 2 that voted him>

I get it now; sorry about that.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Vote: Nai