Newbie 384: All over 'cept the finger-pointing!

[Albert B. Rampage]

Let's have Yos' take on this...

[MeMe]

Vote Count

:

Everyone

(0):

No one

not voting

(5):

Albert B. Rampage, LlamaHunter, pickemgenius, thedocsalive, Yosarian2

Three to lynch.

[Yosarian2]

There is always the possibility of Llama being scum gambling for a quick win here. If so, he would have to be scum with Albert, because normally with this gambit the scum claims cop with a guilty on an innocent, not the other way around.

I don't agree that he would have to be scum with albert. All the scum has to do is to make us think that he's the cop, and if we believe him, he wins because we don't lynch him today or tommorow.

However, if he was scum pulling a gambit, he'd know he was taking a risk. There's a 50/50 chance that there is a cop in the game. If there is, he would have been counterclaimed, and perhaps lynched. Just in case of that, he very likely would not have wanted to connect himself to his scum partner quite that obveously. My guess, and it's just a guess, is that if Llama is scum, he's probably scum with either you or with pickemgenius. That way, even if he was counterclaimed and lynched, we then might lynch Albert tommorow and his partner would win. Not only that, but I can't really see Albert and Llama being scum together; if they are, they've certanly done an execellent job of distancing themselves from each other.

So, from my point of view, if Llama is telling the truth, then the scum pair HAS to be you, Docs, and pickemgenius. If he's lying scum, his scum partner could be Albert, but I think it's more likely that if he's lying scum his scum partner is either thedocsalive OR pickemgenius. So either way, I think we should probably lynch one of the two of you today, and then we can figure out tommorow if Llama is telling the truth or if he's lying.

[pickemgenius]

So nobody counter claimed, seeing as everyone has posted since Llama's unhearlded claim.
That means I believe it 90%, and so now would be a good time for me to claim.

Doc=Me
Cop=Llama
Innocent by investigation-Albert

Scum- Yos, Doc


Hats off if Llama is pulling a quick one, so just for now.

HUGE FOS: YOS,DOC

[Yosarian2]

Hah. I KNEW the scum would fake-claim doc, if I didn't claim in my post. Fell right into my trap, too.

I figured the scum was just waiting for everyone else to post first, to make sure no one else claimed to be a doctor. Once everyone else spoke up, and none of them claimed doctor, I figured the scum would take the gambit and claim to be doctor.

vote:pickemgenius

He is lying. I am the real doctor.

[pickemgenius]

I knew you would do that aswell.

now that we

KNOW

Doc/Yos scum pair, we win.


Now it's just a matter who to lynch first, doc or Yos.

I protected Yos Night 1, kind of a carry over from 334. Bad choice by me obv.

Confirm Vote: Yosarian2

Make that 3-0 in my games so far (after doc gets lynched ofcourse.)


TOWN VICTORY FTW!!!


I might aswell start asking some off the wall questions since its basically game over.


Yos-why did you/doc decide to kill Windfish Night 1, very weird NK.

Are you blind, and can't read your PM from MeMe?

What did you and docs talk about during pregame and Night 1?

I'll give myself some credit, I knew one of you/doc would counterclaim me, ballsy move for you to do so though, just proved me right on all accounts, and me being right makes me happy.

[Yosarian2]

(nods) Like I said, I knew that whichever one of (pickem/docs) was scum would mistakenly claim doc once I posted without claiming.

If pickem really was doc, it wouldn't make any sense for him to wait until after I posted to claim; he would either claim right after Llama if he beleved him, or else if he wasn't sure if he believed him he would wait until he was in immedeate danger of being lynched. The only way the TIMING of pickem's claim makes sense is if he was scum who wanted to wait until everyone else had posted before claiming.

And the post above is quite scummy as well. Just basically Picekm declaring himself town, over and over again, without actually referencing any in-game evidence to convince us; he hopes if he just talks as if he was town who is expecting to win, everyone will believe him. He didn't think there really was a doctor, he figured his fake claim would set him home clear, but now he's stuck and he's just trying to BS his way though it. The ironic claim that I was the one he protected was a nice touch, though. Tell me, did you think of that before you claimed doctor, or only after I counterclaimed you?

In any case, it's up to the other two pro-town people now. You need to go back and read the thread. You need to read day 1 over again, and figure out which one of us looks scummier to you. You need to both get this right, because if one of you is wrong, pickem's scum mate will drop the hammer and the scum will win.

[pickemgenius]

I waited to claim to see if the cop was going to get couter claimed, I figured if there isn't a counter clain then it's game set match, that's why I waited.


Go ahead look back at the game, see who's been kissing ass, and see who's been trying to find scum.

Look at the trunc bandwagon, and see who added more to the discussion day 1, see who was actively trying to lynch scum, or find out who was just coasting along.

[pickemgenius]

Him, and doc were distancing on the trunc issue, Doc-defends newbie, Yos- attack newbie. Yos- "good vibes from me"


I agreed alot with what Yos said Day 1, but now that I know him to be scum, kind makes me feel bad I agreed with him.

[pickemgenius]

Notice the complete lack of in game examples Yos used in his most recent post, it's almost amazing how he just proclaimed himself town, and town over and over again in that post.

yeah, nice try though.

[Yosarian2]

I waited to claim to see if the cop was going to get couter claimed, I figured if there isn't a counter clain then it's game set match, that's why I waited.

Go ahead look back at the game, see who's been kissing ass, and see who's been trying to find scum.

Look at the trunc bandwagon, and see who added more to the discussion day 1, see who was actively trying to lynch scum, or find out who was just coasting along.

Right. I think if you look back, it's pretty clear I added a lot more to the discussion day 1 then pickem did. He just OMGUS voted trunc, tried to buddy up to me early with posts like this:

Yos is usually pretty quiet.

in defense of my not posting a lot yet this game.

He then kept his vote on Truc for a long time without giving a better reason then this:

You're right. Third vote doesn't = scum.
It raises an eyebrow though.

And then he quietly coasted along behind me, agreeing with things I was saying without contributing much himself.

Truncator, did you know you were putting him at -1 when you voted?

Yes. I also knew that someone would change their vote and I hoped it would be before the 4th vote came in. I wanted to see who was quick to change. It may have been risky, but you don't always get the information you need by sitting on your thumb.

There's no way you could have "known" that.

QFT

Unvote, vote Yosarian2

I don't like him much, and would readily lynch him today unless something unexpected happens.

He acts defensive, then quickly jumps on the offensive. He states the obvious. Also, as an side-reason, he is more chatty than his other games, as pickem has said.

And yes, when someone attacks me, I defend myself, and when I see someone do something scummy, I go on the offensive. That's how the game is supposed to be played! Geez. Pro-town players NEED to go on the offensive, because that's the ONLY WAY TO FIND SCUM. And everyone should defend themselves whenver attacked, that's just common sense.

QFT X 3



:good posting X2:

truncator wrote:
Yosarian2 wrote:
Could you please answer my questions, truncator?


I didn't realize I still had unanswered questions with you. You keep bringing up the same points.



Check post 78.I think that's what he was talking about

Pretty constantly just agreeing with me and hiding behind my points. Which is very often what a scum does with a pro-town person; rather then set up their own arguments, they just agree with the pro-town person, coast behind them, and, as pickemgenius himself put it, "kiss ass" instead of "trying to find scum". Instead, while keeping his vote on trucator, he kept making fense sitting posts like this one:

I still feel truncator needs to list other people who he finds scummy.

I don't have any solid thoughts on anybody really right now.

Though I get some weird vibes from trunc, but that could be because of his unorthodoxness.???

Fense sitting like that is a scum tell; scum don't like to commit themselves too fully to a townie bandwagon, because it's likely to make them look bad later.

Ok. Why do you think pickemgenius is scum?

Naturally, I didn't think pickem was scum in the beginning. But since that time he has been constantly prodding on me and trying to round up more votes to lynch me. I believe he is doing so because he knows I'm in a unique spot with everyone eyeing me and he knows I'm pro-town because he is scum.

I really wish windfish would remove his vote for me. I still think we are on the same side. I've had 2 votes long enough now that I think one of the two current votes are scum. It wouldn't seem so suspicious anymore if 2 more scum votes came along and lynched me. 1 has voted for me, the other is waiting.

First paragraph:

I haven't been trying to "round up" votes to lynch you. Just because I think you're scummy won't make me actively try and change the minds of others. That's their own choice on how they feel about you. I've been throwing out scenarios at best.

Don't ask for people to unvote you. You asking Windfish to do so strikes me as weird. SHOW US YOU'RE TOWN if you want us to unvote you.


That's all for now.

Now, he's saying that he "thinks truncator is scummy" but still hasn't really explained why. He tries to deny responsibility for the bandwagon, but stays on it.

Anyway, take a look at day 1 yourself, everyone. Hold pickem to his own standards; look at who was really trying to find scum day 1.

[Yosarian2]

Notice the complete lack of in game examples Yos used in his most recent post, it's almost amazing how he just proclaimed himself town, and town over and over again in that post.

yeah, nice try though.

Nice misrepresentation there, scum. In that post I discussed the timing of your claim, and discribed the post where you responded to me. Those are both in game evidence, unlike your post.

[LlamaHunter]

Oh, hell. Well, just in case anyone had any doubts I was cop still, I breadcrumbed it in post 178:

I

assure you, Albert, I'm not scum.

M

y suspicions were a complete mistake and I've already stated my retraction of them, and they were a result of replacing into the game and not being attentive enough to notice Yosarian had defended himself after you were still expressing suspicion of him, and not spotting a post where you accepted his defense as valid.

C

onsidering this, to thedocsalive, do you have any suspicions regarding pickemgenius or WindFish?

O

ver in post 152, you mentioned by the process of elimination, they were left over.

P

ersonally, I can't find too much to say about either of them, and you had your vote on WindFish for a little while, so do your suspicions of him still apply?

First letters of each sentence spell out IM COP. I'm not sure if that confirms it more or not but in case it does, there it is... yeah. Anyway.

I chose to investigate Albert because, pretty clearly, I thought he was the scummiest at the time. The 4th vote without even letting truncator claim was scummy enough for me to reason that he would still be alive come day 2. Turns out he was town though. Sorry about that (or possibly not).

This is how I reason it. IF (and I'm not sure of this yet) one of Yosarian and pickem is actually the doc (there is still the issue of whether they're both scum claiming doc - thoughts, anyone?) then, the

best move

is to lynch thedocsalive (who would therefore be scum), me to investigate one of the two of Yosarian/pickem at night, and the real doc to protect me, and then we come out with an answer the next day.

However, don't vote for thedocsalive just yet, just in case my worst paranoia is true and Yosarian/pickem have set up an elaborate plan to trap us all. Discussion, people.

[pickemgenius]

This is how I reason it. IF (and I'm not sure of this yet) one of Yosarian and pickem is actually the doc (there is still the issue of whether they're both scum claiming doc - thoughts, anyone?) then, the

best move

is to lynch thedocsalive (who would therefore be scum), me to investigate one of the two of Yosarian/pickem at night, and the real doc to protect me, and then we come out with an answer the next day.

Fucking great idea, we know docs=scum so that's a win.
I protect you tonight, you get a result on me or Yos, and it's game over, town victory.

[pickemgenius]

YOS!!!!!!!

I saw you hovering around in the newbie list for about 15 minutes, and didn't post anything, maybe it's because you know there is no way to shoot this idea down, and you know you are hosed.

[Yosarian2]

:eyebrow: you're pushing this idea pretty hard, huh pickem? That makes me wonder if I was right about the Pickem/Llama scumgroup.

Oh, hell. Well, just in case anyone had any doubts I was cop still, I breadcrumbed it in post 178:

That dosn't actually prove you are a cop, it just means that you as early as post 178 you were already considering making a cop claim at some point in the future. Very different thing.

Anyway, it's a logical idea, Llama, but it makes me rather nervous how hard the confirmed scumbag Pickem is pushing it.

[LlamaHunter]

If one of the two of you is doc, there is no real way to ruin this idea...
NK = me --> protected.
NK = the doc --> the remaining mafia is stuffed; the counterclaim was false.
NK = Albert --> the doc is still alive and obviously the counterclaim is false, and I know who the remaining scum is.

If pickemgenius is lynched and is scum, the remaining scum will probably be forced to suicide at night.

[Yosarian2]

Lol. And by the way, pickem, yes, I was in the newbie forum. I had a completed newbie game open, because I was discussing it with someone, and then I closed the thread. You're really grasping at straws here, aren't you?

[LlamaHunter]

That dosn't actually prove you are a cop, it just means that you as early as post 178 you were already considering making a cop claim at some point in the future. Very different thing.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say when I said I'm not sure that confirms it.

[pickemgenius]

:eyebrow: you're pushing this idea pretty hard, huh pickem? That makes me wonder if I was right about the Pickem/Llama scumgroup.

Fuck yeah, i'm going to push hard for a plan that will assure a town victory.


Doc is basically 100% confirmed scum, we lynch him.

3/1 town to scum ration before night kill.
2/1 town to scum ration after night kill.
I would presume you would kill Albert, because you know i'm protecting Llama.
Llama gives his results (Yos=guilty, me=innocent) game over, town victory.

So again tell me how pushing for a plan that ensures a town victory is scummy?

[Yosarian2]

No, pickem, it's not scummy that you're pushing for the plan. You're pushing for the plan, and I KNOW that you're scum, and that makes me doubt the plan.

From my point of view, I know you're scum. The second scum could be either thedoc or Llama. The only confirmed innocent is Albert, as he and Llama can't both be scum together since I know you're scum.

And why are you saying that thedoc is 100% confirmed scum, exactally? Earlier, you had some doubts about LLama, now you don't? That dosn't make any sense.

[pickemgenius]

No, pickem, it's not scummy that you're pushing for the plan. You're pushing for the plan, and I KNOW that you're scum, and that makes me doubt the plan.

Explain what sense it makes me to support a plan for a guarenteed town win if i'm scum.

And why are you saying that thedoc is 100% confirmed scum, exactally? Earlier, you had some doubts about LLama, now you don't? That dosn't make any sense.

Break it down again

Cop-Llama, nobody counterclaimed (shit even a breadcrumb by a newbie, i'm impressed)
Cop investigation- Albert-Innocent
Doc= Me

well shit that leaves two people, you and docs.

[Yosarian2]

Explain what sense it makes me to support a plan for a guarenteed town win if i'm scum.

If you and Llama are scum together, it's a guarenteed town loss. Which is why your support for the plan is making me nervous.

Break it down again

Cop-Llama, nobody counterclaimed (shit even a breadcrumb by a newbie, i'm impressed)

Nobody counterclaimed, but there's only a 50/50 chance there IS a cop in the game. And yes, a newbie breadcrumbed, which might mean he got the idea of breadcrumbing in code from somewhere, or it might mean his scum partner coached him before day 1 started "hey, put the word "COP" in code somewhere, just in case you need it later".

Now, I don't know that that's true. At the moment, if I had to guess, I'd say there's, say, a 60% chance you're scum with thedoc, and a 40% chance you're scum with Llama. But today, I'd rather lynch you, the person I know is scum, and figure out the rest tommorow.

[LlamaHunter]

But today, I'd rather lynch you, the person I know is scum, and figure out the rest tommorow.

Sure, you might know he's scum, but the rest of us don't, and that's the problem. If one of you is doc and one of you is scum, I know that thedocsalive is scum. I'm probably going to wait to hear from thedocsalive again before making any kind of decision.

Cop-Llama, nobody counterclaimed (shit even a breadcrumb by a newbie, i'm impressed)

Nobody counterclaimed, but there's only a 50/50 chance there IS a cop in the game. And yes, a newbie breadcrumbed, which might mean he got the idea of breadcrumbing in code from somewhere, or it might mean his scum partner coached him before day 1 started "hey, put the word "COP" in code somewhere, just in case you need it later".

Sure I'm a newbie, but I'm not stupid. I've read other games and whatnot. I knew I'd need to back up my claim later.

At this point I'm inclined to lean with pickem here. Due to my knowledge that I am cop, if pickem was scum he wouldn't agree to the plan also knowing that I am the cop. But again, I'll see what Albert and thedocsalive have to say about it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think we got him.

Vote: pickemgenius