8:4 Vanilla Nightless [TM2015] - GAME OVER

[ooba]

Just going off what you posted on MS, what makes him more likely to be scum and not wrong Town?

Earlier, which were you calling near-confTown: Zar or GreyICE?

I get wrong town. (Which is why I can see ABR-town universes even when he pushed me so hard today)

It's just that the reactions only made sense from scummy motivations. Part of the reason why I town read ZZZX is how he reacted to the same stimulus (Nacho posting his death list). MS's make no sense whatsoever.

I said Grey was conftown in my fourth post of the game. I am calling Zar prob town too.

[ooba]

Metal,
As your flip could actually be scum
And I want to sort ooba as he may be scum
And I made a deal

He was on kagami wagon I believe.

when is this sorting of ooba supposed to be happening cos i don't see you doing it.

Thats because the plan sorts out my alignment by itself.

We lynch MS today
-> If he flips town, I get lynched
-> If he flips scum, insta town cred to ooba

What is especially surprising is that

everyone who scum reads me

does not agree to this plan as 1 town:1 scum trade for the town when we are at 6:2 is a near insta win.

[ooba]

Metal,
As your flip could actually be scum
And I want to sort ooba as he may be scum
And I made a deal

He was on kagami wagon I believe.

when is this sorting of ooba supposed to be happening cos i don't see you doing it.

Thats because the plan sorts out my alignment by itself.

We lynch MS today
-> If he flips town, I get lynched
-> If he flips scum, insta town cred to ooba

What is especially surprising is that

everyone who scum reads me

does not agree to this plan as 1 town:1 scum trade for the town when we are at 6:2 is a near insta win.

i might just fucking do this already

ZZZX, I've literally been begging people to do this. Do it please.

And its good for me too - because I'd rather hang my head in shame and walk out of the door if MS is town. (Also I think I'm a bit obsessed now with the game)

It's good for the game state - because if we both are town - you need to get this resolved ASAP. Do you really want a Day 6 with the same shit?

[ooba]

Also, I'll follow up with a venge ICE if I'm going down.

Wgeurts - never a good idea for anybody to reveal venge lists before it's L-1 or something similar. Cause you allow scum to plan mislynches better.

[ooba]

Ika told me to tell you this:
please stop your talk about "confirmed town plans" as its pointless. sadly even if people town read you (tip : not everyone does) you are not confirmed in any way and/or a 100% town read

Who is this directed to?

[ooba]

I have four people who I can literally clear as not-scum based on interactions:
- Grey
- Zar
- Wgeu
- ZZZX

I know MS is scum.

Which leaves you, ABR as possible partners to MS.

From memory ABR's D3 Kagami vote and wanting Nacho to start the list with Kagami throw some town points that way so I place him above you.

I need to analyse both for a closer call. I literally have

ZERO MOTIVATION TO DO THIS

before I see MS flip. My energies are now spent on avoiding stupid town lynches and getting scum lynched. I'll do day 6 stuff on day 6. Stop repeating the same questions over and over. I am not going to analyse your-Sotty interactions because I don't particularly care right now.

I have one mission and one mission only: lynch the obvious scum that is MS.

I am not the 1 who is doing the broken record routine.

I asked you to look at mine and sotty's interactions and you haven't, all you keep coming back to is "your scummy!" and "you are scum by poe" which is not good enough for me. I asked you why wld I intentionally swap into a game with some1 who cld read me with 99% accuracy and the best you can come up with is for wifom reasons and somehow think that I have the skill to pull it off.

I don't like a lot of metal's posts. what I am struggling with is that I can see him throwing a town game and deliberately scumming it up cos he thinks he can get away with it.

I like your trajectories even less cos they make no sense if you are applying the same logic to zar as you are to me. and that is where I am struggling with you. I already said that I think you are scummy for going after me cos you think I am lynchable cos you were banking on abr's and grey's not liking me and zzthing, wguerts and metal doing absolutely nothing to try to stop it.

I have asked you to do a couple of simple things and you can't seem to do it and I am trying to figure out why.

Because you are asking me to do something which I just said I DONT WANT TO DO.
I DONT WANT TO DO IT TILL DAY 6.
I DONT WANT TO DO IT TILL DAY 6.
I DONT WANT TO DO IT TILL DAY 6.
I DONT WANT TO DO IT TILL DAY 6.
I DONT WANT TO ANALYZE YOUR STUFF TILL I SEE MS FLIP.
I DONT WANT TO ANALYZE YOUR STUFF TILL I SEE MS FLIP.
I DONT WANT TO ANALYZE YOUR STUFF TILL I SEE MS FLIP.
I DONT WANT TO ANALYZE YOUR STUFF TILL I SEE MS FLIP.

Maybe I've cleared someone in the town list that shouldn't be cleared {Grey, Zar, Wgeu, ZZZX}. Maybe it's ABR. Maybe MS is town and I can just get out of here. Realise that lynching MS today - and him flipping scum - and seeing who resisted the wagon and how it built up - is more info I can use tomorrow.

Also the bolded rationalisation is the most ridiculous I've ever heard of. What have you ever seen from MS to think he would throw a game? Esp. one which he has declared is more prestigious than all other games.

If you think I'm scum - lynching MS is the easiest way to see me lynched tomorrow.

[ooba]

this is the logic train that you keep consistently failing wrt me despite me asking you to clarify.

I wanted to lynch sotty d2, pointed out to nacho how opportunistic sotty's vote on me was, voted her d2 and d3. I wasn't around for kagami, that happened while I was at a board game convention.

I want you to walk me through the process how I don't get town cred for lynching sotty but you wld if metal flipped scum.

he looks like scum to me, but your constant non-stop dodging my questions when I am trying to pinpoint your reasoning for your thought progression is worse.

So maybe you are town and maybe MS partner is ABR\Alch\somebody else.

Which part of "I haven't got to it yet. And I will not do it today" is hard for you to understand.

If metal looks scum to you, vote him. And I will factor that in to the analysis process tomorrow. Because right now - all I'm seeing is a whole lot of noise of the "MS is bad - but you're worse" variety.

Do you think one of us is scum? - Yes\No
Do you think town would be better off if started off with 5 town: 1 scum on Day 7? - Yes\No

Then vote him

[ooba]

I wanted to lynch sotty d2, pointed out to nacho how opportunistic sotty's vote on me was, voted her d2 and d3. I wasn't around for kagami, that happened while I was at a board game convention.

If MS flips scum, I will read all of the above before I make my decision on who to lynch next.

I've never advocated an auto "Lynch MS. If scum, lynch Mollie" because that's stupid.

I don't have the energy to do it right because I am devoting my energies to get a lynch with an fairly unresponsive town.

Against an opponent who will go to every-level to discredit\scare\make me waver from this crusade.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p6363536 <-------- caught 0 scum. nope, didn't catch me either!

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p6344274 <-------- big version, caught 1 scum and caught SK

let me take this opportunity to shower all over your reads

If you're town, I'll say the same thing I said at the start of the day. I asked you to join me on Sotty - you did. Join me again and we'll flip scum again.

[ooba]

@ABR\@MS:

While I respect your wishes to vote Nacho, I also think you're wrong and going to be doing my best to get an actual scum lynch today. I will need one of you to switch at deadline.

@Mollie:

You're (and your team) are wrong about GreyIce - Please vote Shotty.

@Kagami:

I'll need you to vote.

you have my sword.

VOTE: sotty

Mollie, once I called and you answered.

I call upon your sword again. I will not lead you astray.

[ooba]

ooba if you are scum again and I wind up trusting you then all I can say is fuck you. and not in a mean way.

VOTE: metal

I love you.

I promise you I'm not scum this game.

[ooba]

If nacho flips town we will lynch kagami right?

Ice?

[ooba]

Fuck
This metal probably is scum with this counter wagon.

Wgeurts - change your venge then.

[ooba]

Again the speed of the wagon doesn't give anyone pause.

Who's he scum with?
- Not me, I know my alignment - Ooba Seraphim (The Unviggable Vegetables)

The following people are voting him right now

Alchemist Albert B. Rampage (Blue, Meth, Blade and Associates)

GreyICE (TBD)

Metal Sonic (team nocaps)

ZZZX (TEAM WITH NO NAME)

He was ready for a Zar lynch earlier today
Zar Empire (The Westeros Circlejerk)

Which leaves movie - but she's would have probably voted MS long before to have both of us lynched if she was scum with Wgeurts
Pirate Mollie EddieFenix (The Leftovers)

Mislynch. Clean and simple.

There's no way anybody goes "If Nacho is town, we lynch Kagami?"

[ooba]

@ZZZX; @Ooba;

Who are your top picks for scum right now?

MS.

[ooba]

There's no way anybody goes "If Nacho is town, we lynch Kagami?"

Except for one important point: Kagami wanted to be bussed.

If kagami's town I'm blacklisting her, I don't even.

While I understand the sentiment, my behavior will be pretty well explained when the team PTs are opened at the end of this event.

Sufficed to say, team mafia has been a very negative experience for me.

Stuff like this says the scum QT was full of "I'm playing poorly" and "I might as well just lurk and hammer whoever". We don't know what the fuck was going on in the team thread, and it doesn't matter at all, but Kagami did not want to be playing and did not want to live.

Granted. I can see that happening.

But a lot of our interactions today felt really town.

Anyways, partner?

[ooba]

@ZZZX; @Ooba;

Who are your top picks for scum right now?

MS.

Who would his partner be?

I had it as mollie - but her voting him actually makes me reconsider.
You were and are my next best choice.

[ooba]

I get that you also brought it up earlier.

Why the unvote though?

[ooba]

No I'm right.

I like my vote.

This stays.

Went through his ISO. While nothing was too strong to post 'this is categorically town' - he hits a lot of the right notes. I tried even seeing if there's a particular player he wants protected in the lynch->if town->if scum lynches, and I really couldn't find any angles from his posts.

He's also really hit some of the same paranoia notes that I have. If he's scum, he's faked that pretty well.

Overall: I still think MS is a much better lynch.

(Now obviously you have as a possible-wgeurts-partner, so take that how you will.)

[ooba]

As much as I like voting people trying to lynch me (they really do tend to flip scum) I remain remarkably unconvinced on MS.

The lying stuff early game was awful

, but this has been super town play.

Also I'm tired of having my vote cajoled around. If I'd played the fucking asshole and death tunneled my scum reads off the bat and told ABR to go shove his head up his ass, we'd probably be like... 8:2.

Wguerts is scum.

Did you read this?

Its not *just* the lying stuff.

[ooba]

Hey,
ZZZX
If I were to put MS as my venge and I flip town which I will.
Won't you have to lynch him?

Then do it!

[ooba]

Venge MetalSonic

Still not self-voting

Excellent. Even if you die as town, your death is not in vain.

I can already anticipate a D6 where everyone is like 'MS is so town. Wgeurts can't read for shit'

[ooba]

He tried to venge Abr and grey.

You may want to ask yourself why he isn't venging me or zar if we are both his top scumreads.

Ooba isn't thinking.

Grey venge was a knee-jerk reaction. ABR-venge is in line with his thoughts all throughout the day.

[ooba]

His thoughts were "zar is scum" and "sonic is scum". He was helping you all the way today in pushing for my mislynch.

Before he posted the above venge, I was about to post something along "looking at wgeurts venge choices, I'm never honoring his venge". Ah, but I guess that now it's on me, it makes me shady doesn't it.

The top sentence talks about him as if he was scum. If he's scum, we're obviously not honouring the venge.

The bottom sentence doesn't make sense - we go ahead with a town vengeful lynch irrespective of how wishy-washy you personally think that town was.

[ooba]

Okay, version 1 of the plan included wge in the town block and ooba outside. Version 2 swapped it, ooba as town and wge as scum possible.

I didn't like change but both versions had Sotty + Kagami as scum which ooba completely failed to give credit in his case

The order's different though.

If mollie's town, this would have ended at position two before Sotty.

Kagami --> EddieFenix --> Sotty --> Seraphim

That does eliminate mollie~you scumpairing.

[ooba]

if mollie flips town then doesnt that make metal town? since he changed the plan from one that would stop at town to one that actually hit both scum?

That's the exact opposite.

His Nacho lynch quotes make it clear he didn't like the revised plans to the original.

Spoiler:

My personal death list is:

Sotty ---> Kagami ---> GreyICE ---> Zar.

Are you going to follow those names when I flip town, Grey?

Step 1: Ignore Nacho directions - set up a grey mislynch.

I really want to be lynched guys.

Not happening. You just town cleared yourself and we're about to lynch your scumread Nacho.

can we then lynch grey?

cos that is what my team terribly wants.

Yes. Grey after nacho

#2205: Nacho specifically quotes MS above post and says “No. Follow the plan.”

#2207: MS specifically asks about the

“Did you discard page 56 plan cause that one was actually the plan I was going to follow! I think you know that I dislike dynamic plans!”

Then there’s the Kagami hammer and even more defense of the slot

The funny thing was it may possibly come from town!


You can get a low player evaluation too!

#2215: Nacho reiterates “Follow the plan.”

#2216: MS:

“But you changed reads! I can't follow a read changer!!!!!! HELP ME ASDGHHJKKLL”

#2219: Nacho: “This is my dying breath, my time taken away by a scum quickhammer. Do not deviate, do not delay, do not get distracted.”

#2220: MS: Talks about other plans Nacho came up with

#2225: “OKAY I WILL FOLLOW YOUR PLAN SENPAI”

Starts setting up a “Oh what if Nacho is wrong angle” that he pursues on D3

#2226:

EVEN THOUGH I THINK GREYICE SHOULD DIE IN A PIT FIRE FIRST



BUT NACHO TOWN IS ALWAYS RIGHT YAS?

#2235-8: He fucking pleads with Nacho for any changes to his list.

LAST WORDS! LAST WILL! ANY CHANGES????

(I KNOW YOU WILL)

EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS VERY IMPORTANT

IF WE LOSE IT IS ON YOU.

YOU WILL LEAD US TO VICTORY.

BE THE KING AND LORD FOR ALL OF US AND BRING US TO VICTORY

yeah if you have any changes to your plan because of that shitty opportunistic wagon composition (note: mollie + grey on the same wagon, sotty not even voting you) you really should give them before your heart stops

D3:
He votes for Sotty but suddenly descends into an *Argument* with mollie

#2339: Suddenly he wants Sotty to come into the thread and town it up so that they don’t have to follow Nacho’s plan. Remember, tis is the same person WHOS been on every single scum list of his, along with a detailed case on why GreyIce-Sotty are scum together.

#2341: You have the ‘What if Nacho is wrong’ series

this is like jumping off a building and hoping that jesus nacho will carry us to the heavens!


let's not think about what happens if this goes wrong!

#2347: “i was talking to myself about what if sotty was town.”[/quote]

[ooba]

@Mollie, @Ooba, what do you two think? If MS flips Town would you lynch wgeurts with me tomorrow? Alternatively, if you two switch over to wgeurts with me and he flips Town, I'll lynch MS with you tomorrow.

If MS flips town, I wouldn't have a vote tomorrow. Especially for wgeurts since I don't see him self double voting himself.

[ooba]

@Mollie, @Ooba, what do you two think? If MS flips Town would you lynch wgeurts with me tomorrow? Alternatively, if you two switch over to wgeurts with me and he flips Town, I'll lynch MS with you tomorrow.

If MS flips town, I wouldn't have a vote tomorrow. Especially for wgeurts since I don't see him self double voting himself.

well ooba are you fucking kidding me? if someone pushes for a mislynch you will basically give your vote to him?

fucking hell ooba,. Yes I know your reads might be wrong (and prob are) but you are town and you must not do such bullshit

because you did many scummy shit posts. did you not?

you were townier than ms for a single read list when i started scum reading ms, i wanted ot lynch anyone below abr at that post anyway

I gave my word.

And we have 4 mislynches so it's not LyLo tomorrow even if I'm wrong.

"Scummy shit posts" - this is new - which ones?

[ooba]

Wgeurts who do you think is MS's partner right now?

[ooba]

Ooba I re-read metal once you told me to do cus i promised you to, So read wge's day of kagami flip and think about it, how he backed out when he was going to be made into a buddy of who he called town and was aobut to get lynched (its never a good sign)

how his reads did a 180 on every single read.

everything.

Im not ignoring you btw. I am reading that.

[ooba]

wge's day of kagami flip and think about it, how he backed out when he was going to be made into a buddy of who he called town and was aobut to get lynched (its never a good sign)

how his reads did a 180 on every single read.

everything.

ZZZX I went to that point and re-read it.

If you remember, I had you pegged as scum at the exact same point too. This below post really made me feel scum-you was setting up a town Kagami-lynch.

no matter what sotty flips i believe a kagami lynch is in order.

if town we lynch for being a hindrance to the town and with a huge chance of flipping scum

if sotty flips scum we continue following nacho's

Also regarding the scum intent on seeing the team crumble, would scum be that direct in opposition to Kagami? Esp. when they know town would probably keep following Nacho's list after a ping on the first name.

[ooba]

@Wgeurts: "If I get lynched scum will start framing possible town like Alch for how they got on me. Without flipping MS."
Isn't this the entire point of the vengeful lynch? If you're sure on MS - your death will get MS killed.

[ooba]

2 GreyICE (TBD) - Town
Venge: wgeurts

6 wgeurts (Young and Beautiful) - Town
Venge: MS?

1 Alchemist Albert B. Rampage (Blue, Meth, Blade and Associates)

2 Metal Sonic (team nocaps)

3 Ooba Seraphim (The Unviggable Vegetables)
4 Pirate Mollie EddieFenix (The Leftovers)
5 Zar Empire (The Westeros Circlejerk)
6 ZZZX (TEAM WITH NO NAME)

ZZZX, Following Nacho's plan requires one condition. You will honour any townies vengeful lynch - irrespective of what you think.

On multiple times today, you've said "ABR and MS cannot be scum together." -> I think that's totally wrong. Do not throw the game on that. If we follow Nacho's plan - do I have your word on that?

^pedit: That's a good point that you're just now seeing? Mollie's said the same thing like 35 times today.

[ooba]

Mollie, I'm reading your posts and willing to discuss uyour ideas.

ank has ooba and zzthing as a scumteam.

bulba is yelling at me for voting metal. I have yet to see a good reason as to why metal is town except for nacho's and a bit of the aTe. if ooba is scum then comes down to a definitive fuck you to ooba from me.

this is where I am at.

I kinda wanna lynch grey now cos of the fade on pinpointed scumreads. I feel like he is trying to blend in.

eta: oh wow a grey wagon has sprung up. zzthing where did you mention that looked at organic chemistry? cld you plz link?

Ank must think I'm a high higher class of scum player than I actually am. This would not have been my entry as a replacement to the game:

What makes you so

sure

?

Posting. And his suspicions.

This is where I am right now:

Sotty\Kagami and 2 from {Zar, Wgeu, Mollie}

Nacho-scum would have never pushed

Sotty\Kagami\Zar.

---

^Pedit: Agreed that the Nacho wagon {ABR, MS} is town. But it's also wrong.

[ooba]

Wow! That's a lot of posts.

Here's what I see:
-

ZZZX

comes out (and always has been) a bit town in D4 play. His 'Let's make a plan' for town multiple times is a bit scummy, but the sheer aggression\emotionality is not something I see coming from scum.

I'm at the point where I can see a few potential two scum remaining:
a)

MS + Alchemist

: This remains a possibility. While MS is relatively absent except to defend himself, Alchemist seems to be thinking about the game.

b)

Wgeurts + mollie:

I hated that wgeurts had what can only be called as a 'survival fit' when being run up today.

Townies should not be afraid of dying in this setup if they are firm in their convictions - you can read the same thing in ZZZX during the Grey Argument

. MS has also shown survival tendencies.

The good thing about Wgeurts being scum is that there's only one possible partner: mollie - so his plan should be easy to analyse.

Wgeurts Plan

- First off, he puts himself in a town bloc with ZZZX so that itself is an auto win
a) Lynch Metal

D5: MS

b) "If Metal flips town we lynch greyICE. If metal's town we need to go back to the nacho plan, we've abandoned it too easily.
We shouldn't yet lynch ooba, he may still be town. So we'll leave him to a lylo with me and ZZZX, then we'll win knowing he's scum."
Aka an easy mislynch for LyLo - since I would look terribad if Metal flipped town

D6: Ice

c) "If ICE flips town we kill her vengeful: ABR. If ABR is scum he's way too powerful and persuasive to live in a LYLO, we need this slot sorted ASAP. Also following the vengeful is staying true to nacho."

D7: ABR\Alch

Leading to a D8 LyLo of Wgeurts\Mollie\Zar\Me\ZZZX.
I think that's an auto lynch on me right there.

c)

GreyIce + Zar

: I have strong town reads on both - but Zar didn't vote GI now so it could be a thing. Call this the 'Ghost of Nacho' team - because you can't help think 'What if I'm wrong and he was right?'.

---

I think all things considered wgeurts is the way to go.

Unvote. Vote: Wgeurts

There's first instincts to consider I guess.

What makes you so

sure

?

Posting. And his suspicions.

This is where I am right now: Sotty\Kagami and 2 from {Zar, Wgeu, Mollie}

Nacho-scum would have never pushed Sotty\Kagami\Zar.

---

^Pedit: Agreed that the Nacho wagon {ABR, MS} is town. But it's also wrong.

And reading back - both wgeurts and MS reaction to this are pretty bad. Also wgeurts didn't accept the "Vote Sotty - if he flips town, I'll vote Nacho tomorrow with you" without a rider that it needs an OK from ABR.

[ooba]

Grey, that's L-1. You've got your wgeurts lynch.

/inb4 ooba scum with ZZZX

[ooba]

I hated that wgeurts had what can only be called as a 'survival fit' when being run up today.

Townies should not be afraid of dying in this setup if they are firm in their convictions - you can read the same thing in ZZZX during the Grey Argument. MS has also shown survival tendencies.

Umm - just to clarify since this is unclear.

Scum definitely do not want to die today since it's game over if they do so.

Town on the other hand, don't really care if they can get scum reads lynched.

ZZZX, "I'll self vote if I can get Grey" is town

Wgeurts offering deals is not

DEAR GOD SOMEONE HAMMER METAL
Ice
My deal applies to Zar/Ice/ZZZX
Not having Alch with the votes

[ooba]

Wgeurts - you can always venge Grey Ice if you're so sure. It's the same thing I keep telling you.

Your convictions seem strong ('Oh MS is the definite counter wagon', 'GreyIce is scum - look at the resistance') - but as town, you should realise that your venge is a 1:1 on scum. Meaning we still win even with your mislynch.

So self vote and venge if you're that sure.

[ooba]

a scumteam of wguerts and I doesn't make any more sense than a team of metal and I and you know this cos you can't even come up with any explanation for it. you look like you are scum getting backed into a corner.

This one is easy because if wguerts is scum - everyone else has voted for him in this day phase.

[ooba]

a scumteam of wguerts and I doesn't make any more sense than a team of metal and I and you know this cos you can't even come up with any explanation for it. you look like you are scum getting backed into a corner.

This one is easy because if wguerts is scum - everyone else has voted for him in this day phase.

have you voted for grey?

Nope.

[ooba]

I don't know what a metal diet is - but I've Grey as strong town ever since I entered the game.

Can we flash wagon ooba?
Then lynch nacho?

On Page 43.

I'm town.

Plus if
a) Either of Nacho or GreyIce are scum
b) If at least one of Sotty or Kagami is NOT scum
I'll stop playing Mafia forever.

[ooba]

You just put him and zar as a possible scum team...
Why don't we clear them first?

I said it's a possibility - but not one I strongly believe in - since Grey is strong town and Zar has also been town.

Again - the 'survival instinct' tell for you is kicking in.

I would rather clear you first, MS team second and that particular combination can be last - but I don't think the game will get there.

[ooba]

ooba who wld be your vengekill again?

Depends on how my wagon shapes up and what reasons people have for jumping in.

@Wgeurts:
I get where you're coming from. But this should be an easy win nonetheless.

- If Grey is right about you, we should win D5
- If you\ZZZX are right about Grey, we should win D6
- Otherwise I'm right we should win with a Alch lynch on D7.

That covers all possible teams I can see.

---

@Mollie: I don't particular tend to scum read people who scum read me. You should also notice that he backed off that assertion. I read this Grey-ZZZX thing as knee-jerk reactions on both sides.

[ooba]

yeah he didn't give any decent reasons as to why he was scumreading you in the first place and why he backed off.

he put you in his scumlist while dropping wguerts for no discernable reason, never answered why he switched his read on you 2 and somehow this makes him town in your eyes.

That works the other way round - if he's scum pushing on wgeurts - he suddenly abandons all plans and moves ahead?

What I see is a townie who sees the endgame bloc of {Ooba, mollie} in ZZZX's plan - flips out because he can see there's no way both can be town or how anybody believes both can be town and moves in on ZZZX.

---

Well, OOba.
Why don't you do it the otherway round and follow the plan?
GreyICE if she's town will request to venge me.
If she's scum we win D5, if she's town you lynch me D6.
Should be safe in your oppinion.
You should vote as a bloc, hence it's a town bloc.

Pretty sure GreyIce is going to venge ZZZX is lynched here - not you.

Again why I am putting you above GI right now? Because I think he's ok with dying - and you're not.

[ooba]

Well, OOba.
Why don't you do it the otherway round and follow the plan?
GreyICE if she's town will request to venge me.
If she's scum we win D5, if she's town you lynch me D6.
Should be safe in your oppinion.
You should vote as a bloc, hence it's a town bloc.

I've got your back if you're town.

There's no way a scum GreyIce gets to escape your venge on him - given that I and ZZZX are both there.

[ooba]

@Mollie: I am town reading ZZZX. Also ZZZX is easier to write than ZZthing - also the way you write it reminds me of the band.

@ZZZX:
I scum hunt via associatives. It leads to better results.

And yes, I am considering different types of interactions - I’ve even considered the ‘Hail-mary’ bus at 6:2 i.e. bus your partner so hard that you survive 5 continuous lynches and win the game.

I conflicted on wgeurts. He’s been hitting the right notes. But this entire ‘switch it up\survival’ doesn’t gel with me for some reason. And his plan was also dangerous since it kept me alive till LyLo in the event of a MS mislynch.

@Wgeurts
Exactly GI is getting lynched on your venge today or tomorrow so switching it up shouldn't matter. But your every post makes me think it matters to you.

[ooba]

btw thoughts on me vs grey? which one is scum if there was a scum between us?

I've got that fight down as a TvT. In the hypothetical realm, I'd lean towards Grey being scum over you.

Also, ActionDan and me are discussing something in the team PT. Will keep you updated.

[ooba]

Unvote

...for now

[ooba]

MS, you have a very incorrect view of the game state if you think scum-me is going to be influenced by that statement you made. In fact, I would have avoided it altogether - just so you couldn't make that point!

ActionDan popped in and said he recommends not voting wgeurts for any reason and that he has that slot as strong town even above ZZZX-town.

I want to figure out where he's coming from - and don't want anyone hammering till I've relayed what he's got to say.

[ooba]

LLD always says that the best way to win when you play scum is to demotivate the town. Make them feel like shit.

ooba did it to me

Lol. Now compare how it'll be like if you replace in - have a VERY STRONG town read and he proceeds to get mislynched on D2 when you also think you have an easy scum lynch on hand.

also, I can't believe all that was ONLY a week ago. It felt like months.

This we can agree on.

[ooba]

ActionDan said he hasn't been keeping up but had a very strong town read at about page 30.

He said he expects him-town would want to survive too.

But I've asked him to check recent posts because I really want to vote wgeurts.

[ooba]

RL has suddenly caught with me. Expect a post in about 24 hours-ish

But while I am here - I will "lol" at this -

In order to pierce through the scumteam, I would like to propose a lynch on ooba instead of GreyICE.

.

[ooba]

ok - 16 pages between page 153 and here! I'm not doing this tonight because this game requires that special care.

[ooba]

ok -

16 pages

between

page 153

and here! I'm not doing this tonight because this game requires that special care.

Also I can't count.

[ooba]

pls be scum you are the only one that makes sense right now

The only one who makes sense as scum?

I can only be scum with Grey IMO.

^pedit: Of course

[ooba]

no man, there's no way you can be scum with grey. you make sense as scum with Zzzx or zar from my view

ZZZX: I'd be thrilled if I can pull the 'Discuss plans' - 'Shut up' - 'No you shut up' thing with my scum buddies when I'm scum!

Zar: I'll say again that I wouldn't come into the game saying hey it's Sotty\Kagami and one of {Wgeurts\Mollie\Zar} if I was scum with any one of the three

[ooba]

grey is hard townreading zar and so is my teammate

so I can't go there either


doubt zx is scum, and I've been trying very hard not to think about alchey cause I'm like the only person protecting him right now

What do you have to say in defence of you + Alch?

[ooba]

I've actually started re-reading - got a couple of minutes.

I'll take the time out to echo this:

This game is very enjoyable -- it's active, it's not broken, nobody is really obvscum or obvtown, what do you enjoy in a game, if not that?

I think the remaining two scum are playing very well - whoever you are. This is an enjoyable mafia game for me.

[ooba]

Wait - WTF - Wgeurts self voted?

[ooba]

Vote: Grey

[ooba]

I really wish he hadn't done that.

The sad fact is that if I am right about you+Alch, Grey venging ZZZX is like my worst scenario occurring.

[ooba]

Alchemist Albert B. Rampage (Blue, Meth, Blade and Associates)
Metal Sonic (team nocaps)
Ooba Seraphim (The Unviggable Vegetables)
Pirate Mollie EddieFenix (The Leftovers)
Zar Empire (The Westeros Circlejerk)

Priceless endgame with mollie in the middle.

^pedit: ZZZX: Our argument after you proposed your plan. 'Shut up' and all.

[ooba]

I will not be honoring wgeurt's venge on GreyICE.

He self voted and died for his beliefs.

The venge is the least we should give him IMO.

[ooba]

Lol.

Is it you and Grey?

[ooba]

Lol.

Is it you and Grey?

This is stupid. I take it back.

I don't see you doing the "Grey + Sotty" thing if you both are scum.

[ooba]

I actually didn't realise that was the lynching vote. But I don't think I would have voted otherwise given wgeurts venge + Nacho's pressure from the grave.

[ooba]

ooba, answer me this later when you've caught up.

Grey (if town) ultimately caught Sotty + Kagami, which we both could not have done; we both did catch Sotty but Kagami slipped by our fingers (you called kagami town and almost derailed her lynch. Thankfully lynch inertia pushed it through despite your intervention).

If Grey venges would you trust him to do it right despite it being counter intuitive? I mean we may think he is wrong but we might be the wrong one here.

Even if you think zzzx is town, let's say hypothetically grey flips town. Will you follow the venge?

I think a grey lynch has set gears in motion. We'll scumhunt\theorize but I think ill follow venge

Also he could be scum I guess? Hope.

[ooba]

VOTE: Ooba

You're saying I'm scum with MS? Lol.

---

And you're praising Zar for his accuracy when how many of my reads have been accurate till now? 100%.
Sotty - Scum
Kagami - Scum
Nacho - Town
GI - Town
Wgeurts - Town

Ok. Done with Day 1. Here are my thoughts:

- Kagami, Sotty, Eddie, Zar literally just lurked out the end of the day
- Kagami used GreyIce suspicion as a crutch to literally comment on nothing else throughout the entire day.
- This is similar to wgeurt's MS suspicion at the start of the game - but his play improved as the day continued - I liked the Kagami vote when Hoopla's wagon looked like it might die down.

-

Nacho and GreyIce are the towniest of town

. I'm no expert scum hunter, but I am good at town hunting. Their conviction is extremely genuine. People hold Nacho to some godlike town standard but there are many nuggets of town here:
a) His reads look spot on
b) The "I don't know how many scum bodies I have to drop"
c) Saying this is good to GreyIce's "Let's lynch Kagami today. If she flips town, I'll help you with Nacho tomorrow" to ABR

I'll drop this now and will update after Day 2.

Vote: Sotty

Okey I am not killing anyone but zar right now,. if he flips scum then we lynch ooba as a 100% partner

You go ahead and do the following

Lynch Zar: Will flip town
Lynch Grey: Will flip town
Lynch Wgeurts: Will flip town

Call me back when you want to lynch scum.

[ooba]

hey ooba!

I left a whole big long post dedicated to you and I am getting the cold shoulder. why is that?

Read it.

So you had
- Grey
- ABR
as scum

MS, ZZZX, Me as town.

You want to know why I townread Zar?

Because his play has been non-calculating.
1) He cleared GI - called him conf town even - when scum want to rack in the mislynches
2) And has just been trying to figure out the game

[ooba]

Hello guys!

Sorry I've been away for a bit. But RL is really eating away at a lot of my time. (I'm getting married in 20 days!!)

I really need to devote an entire afternoon to this. So I'll do it tomorrow.

[ooba]

@MS:
Dan's the only one who's been following along\reading bits and pieces:
- He followed enough to get town reads on ZZZX, Wgeurts and Nacho early on and nothing much since
- Strong town on mollie now

He agrees with the middle of mollie's 4327 on MS

[ooba]

I'm here now. You can all calm down!

(Hope you didn't lynch me?)

[ooba]

I'm here now. You can all calm down!

(Hope you didn't lynch me?)

Hey, Ooba,

ZZZX just moved you to his 2nd top scumread. Even though he was previously able to 'townblock' you.

You'd better fix that.

Or don't, whatever.

Does the bolded mean you think I'm scum with him?

[ooba]

Even after this?

ooba, answer me this later when you've caught up.

Grey (if town) ultimately caught Sotty + Kagami, which we both could not have done; we both did catch Sotty but Kagami slipped by our fingers (you called kagami town and almost derailed her lynch. Thankfully lynch inertia pushed it through despite your intervention).

If Grey venges would you trust him to do it right despite it being counter intuitive? I mean we may think he is wrong but we might be the wrong one here.

Even if you think zzzx is town, let's say hypothetically grey flips town. Will you follow the venge?

I think a grey lynch has set gears in motion. We'll scumhunt\theorize but I think ill follow venge

[ooba]

If you're scum reading me, you're either scum or you need to get better at the game.

My town motto has always been 'My reads are my shield' and I've been 20/20 this game.

If you think I'm scum, you need to explain me
a) Bussing two of my partners out the gate while STRONGLY trying to avoid Nacho's (a strong player's) lynch
b) Being right about both previous mislynches on D4
c) Setting up 1:1 on D4 as scum with MS

What makes you so

sure

?

Posting. And his suspicions.

This is where I am right now: Sotty\Kagami and 2 from {Zar, Wgeu, Mollie}

Nacho-scum would have never pushed Sotty\Kagami\Zar.

---

^Pedit: Agreed that the Nacho wagon {ABR, MS} is town. But it's also wrong.

Okey I am not killing anyone but zar right now,. if he flips scum then we lynch ooba as a 100% partner

You go ahead and do the following

Lynch Zar: Will flip town
Lynch Grey: Will flip town
Lynch Wgeurts: Will flip town

Call me back when you want to lynch scum.

[ooba]

Let's go over this one by one.

First,

Zar is obvtown

. He's also played like a person with no endgame in mind. (as scum are akin to do)
- His pushing of the scum
- His calling GreyIce conftown on D5
- Him still calling me town when scum-zar would have been better served by painting my slot town

I'm also backed up by GreyIce on this.

Zar: Do NOT mislynch Zar. Lynch me first. If you think he's my scumbuddy, then my flip should convince you that's fucking nonsense. Anyone arguing for his lynch after that should summarily be strung up... well, at least vigged until we have 1 scum left.

@Zar: If you're scum, congratulations - you've won the game because I won't be voting you ever.

---

And before the ooba-Zar team is proposed again, let me keep repeating this until you see the error of your ways.

Post 1871 -
This is where I am right now: Sotty\Kagami and 2 from {Zar, Wgeu, Mollie}
Nacho-scum would have never pushed Sotty\Kagami\Zar.

Post 1871 -
This is where I am right now: Sotty\Kagami and 2 from {Zar, Wgeu, Mollie}
Nacho-scum would have never pushed Sotty\Kagami\Zar.

Post 1871 -
This is where I am right now: Sotty\Kagami and 2 from {Zar, Wgeu, Mollie}
Nacho-scum would have never pushed Sotty\Kagami\Zar.

---

You can comb through ANY of my SCUM games from the LAST EIGHT YEARS. If you find any post where I've strongly bussed ALL of my partners as a replacement in - go ahead and post it - I'll vote myself.

And MS you hypocrite - Meta wasn't applicable to me on D4 but suddenly is golden for you in post #4326?

[ooba]

empire's iso looked really strong, the 1 thing that bugged me was that he left the game w/o leaving a trail but when I reread zar's I can see where he was still in the game and giving zar his reads as the game progressed. with that in mind and reading a town flipped grey's iso I can see a very natural progression of flow of thought and development of reads as well as a set of several reachouts which seems to come from a mindset of town. I think he is naturally just a low count poster but what i am seeing is full of content. he is now for me a strong town read.

Wait - you're town reading Zar?

Then who am I scum with?

[ooba]

@ooba I totally agree with you zar read atm, right now my reads look like:

do not lynch ever:
Mollie

Do not lynch:
Zar

I will lynch if i have to today: ooba/alchemist

Dis is scuuuuum: Metal

Why would you ever have me in the "lynch" category if you think MS is scum?

[ooba]

What I see is a ZZZX that is incredibly hard to push through - given that it was Grey's venge choice.

Both mollies push on me and Alchemist's "If ooba is scum with ZZZX, then vote ooba today" is protectionist.

If I am scum with ZZZX, this is me bussing him.

Vote: ZZZX

[ooba]

Anyway, if you think it's Ooba/ZZZX then please switch back to Ooba. If he flips scum we will lynch ZZZX tomorrow.

This is literally the worst thing ever. And if I flip town?

If ABR is town, his play was average and he's clinging on to his hope that "He caught Seraphim on D1" because without that, his play has been shit. Pushed Nacho and declares that lynch "broke the game open" when a Sotty lynch would have been better on D2. Kagami would have followed- Nacho would have never been lynched.

Ooba, I caught Sotty at #210 and you predecessor pulled all the breaks in the world to stop me from getting Sotty lynched.

We can all just piggyback on all the legwork I've done in this game, which will be ignored by most players in this game, and praise Nacho the martyr for coming to the exact same conclusions I was going to come to (although I would lynch Kagami > Sotty > Ooba instead of Sotty > Kagami > Ooba like him).

Ego blinds a person especially when "Your meaningless catch up post at 1868 comes without any scumhunting, observations, quotes. You just posted a blank reads list." ignores I've been pushing scum the entire fucking game.

---

The way I see - the game is actually going these separate ways:
a) Mollie - ZZZX:
- GreyIce was right about this pairings. Both ZZZX earlier plan of keeping him and ABR\Alch into the final two would have won him the game. Also let's keep "Ooba\Mollie" alive would have won him the game.
- The fact that ZZZX would keep in the lynch category when he's sure MS is scum

b)

ABR\Alch - ZZZX:

- Again the initial plan had him going to the end with ABR
- Plus Alchs quote above

c) MS - Alch
- This is just good play since Alch replaced in since both the "I'll vote wgeurts if you vote MS" and Alch's call to MS to not vote ZZZX was good play.
- However, mollie's already shown her hand by voting me today. A ZZZX lynch today makes my mislynch much easier tomorrow.
- Plus Alch's entry into the game "MS - I don't know why you have two votes on you"

The bolded is my most likely pairing right now because
a) I cannot believe that ZZZX can simultaneously state "If I flip town, NEVER lynch mollie\ooba" and still say I'm one of the lynch candidates today
b) Alch's "If ooba's scum with ZZZX, lets lynch ooba today"

@Mollie: If you're town, GreyIce asked you to reconsider the game after his town flip.

If I'm scum, who am I scum with?

[ooba]

The bolded is my most likely pairing right now because
a) I cannot believe that ZZZX can simultaneously state "If I flip town, NEVER lynch mollie\ooba" and still say I'm one of the lynch candidates today
b) Alch's "If ooba's scum with ZZZX, lets lynch ooba today"

Plus add ZZZX's insistence to keep MS\Me alive instead of resolving the 1:1 - clearly if both of us were town, this works out *very* effectively for scum in LyLo.

[ooba]

ZZZX, if you're so sure that MS is scum, how can you even justify a vote on me. Would I go into a 1:1 vs MS on day four, canvas for votes and beg mollie to vote him?

[ooba]

Yeah mollies also town.

[ooba]

ZZZX, you said "if both Grey Ice and me flip town, never lynch ooba or mollie." and only Grey Ice has flipped after then.

That was literally D6.

So no, not a misrep.

[ooba]

Ooba if you are on I want to have a quick talk to you here. please tell me you are on.

I'm here but on mobile posting.

[ooba]

okey lets get some facts straight,

do you agree that zar is town first:?

also who are my possible partners here?

I believe Zar is town. Some paranoia since the vla was bad - but I've got to make a stand somewhere.

Alch is a possible partner. Mollie was a possible partner but the unvote makes me doubt that.

[ooba]

i think u said its alch/mollie before ... right?

quote="In post 4381, ZZZX"]i think u said its alch/mollie before ... right?[/quote]
My D5 call out was MS and Alch.

I have my doubts about that
- Alchs ill vote MS if you'll vote wgeurts with me tomorrow
- Alchs call out to MS who is voting you
Both could be extremely good scum play but it just makes me think I'm barking up the wrong tree.

[ooba]

okey lets get some facts straight,

do you agree that zar is town first:?

also who are my possible partners here?

I believe Zar is town. Some paranoia since the vla was bad - but I've got to make a stand somewhere.

Alch is a possible partner. Mollie was a possible partner but the unvote makes me doubt that.

okey so lets get this straight first,

Every single flipped town said mollie is town, and you as a person who palyed so much with mollie must know better mollie is town, and claiming otherwise is scum claiming here because its obv.

do you disagree about this point?

I haven't had a great history of reading Mollie and vice versa. The posting also fit the southern bellies playstylr. It isn't obvious to me.

Also flipped town also called ABR and Ms the town bloc. So that really doesn't hold that much sway with me.

Grey didn't call Mollie town btw.

[ooba]

Grey didn't call Mollie town btw.

he didnt? idk

but generally nacho (who has a 97% read accuracy on mollie) said mollie is town,

also ika my team mate said mollie is town

and generally you wouldnt replace as scum to a slot where there is a player that never reads you wrong,

do you agree with me here?

That was mollies reasoning. But I've already stated that nacho was scum readng Eddie fenix at that time and even if nacho has 95% accuracy in reading Mollie, it might have been worth taking th risk for the 5% and the WIFOM defense it presents.

Why does this feel like less about reading me or my Mollie reasoning and more like you want me to say something that upsets\angers\gathers me scum points with Mollie?

[ooba]

because i still have a point i wana make,

first of all can you check some facts about metal's vote pattern:

-Metal have never voted kagami/sotty, i might be wrong about sotty as i didnt check it recently but I am sure about kagami (until the nacho incident ofc)

-Metal have softly defended both kagami and sotty.

Are there any lies in the two facts above?

Metal voted sotty on D3. Would have probably voted kagami if he didn't invite to listen to my case.

Are you trying to convince me of metal might be scum? You forget my d4 case on him.

But yes - no lies there.

[ooba]

That was mollies reasoning. But I've already stated that nacho was scum readng Eddie fenix at that time and even if nacho has 95% accuracy in reading Mollie, it might have been worth taking th risk for the 5% and the WIFOM defense it presents.

the reason i believe in that is because i understand the reasoning as I am living it right now, I am resisting replacing with ika without any words since everyone is trying to put some wifom with some misrep about me and its pissing me off.

And I've never voted Mollie because of these facts.

IF Mollie is scum, ill catch her after catching her partner - but I'm not going after Mollie first. Also AD wouldn't approve.

[ooba]

IMPORTANT NOTE: I have had the deadline countdown running for 5/4, not 5/6. It is now fixed, and you have two more days. [/b][/color]

This is good news.

Sorry ZZZX, I ran out of charge as I was replying to you yesterday.

[ooba]

also @ooba do you really think I am the scum here? you are following someone who has done everything the scum in this game did to vote me who was your town read for most of the game. where the other guy was one of your main scum reads? and the reason for your vote is a 180 which frankly... you did (and mine was never a 180 frankly)

See this is the problem I have right now...

I had a mini crusade on Day 5 to get MS lynched. I presented my reasons etc. (Soft defense, reactions)

You're pretty much presenting back the same reasons two days later. I mean - if you're seeing what you're seeing as so scummy - why didn't you vote MS on day 4? Why the entire 24-hr countdown to vote MS and then not following up?

---

But let's talk it out.

I'm not scum with MS. Who do you think is?

[ooba]

pp-edit: i believe its alch most likely because of titus's vca being dumbly faked (just like kagami)
also its now where i double read nearly everything he said, also i tried to push him with u d5, but i said to my team to try and use metal to find if he slips anything about his partners. looking at titus stuff when he keeps talking about it made me sure somewhat.

Would you be willing to lynch Alch today then?

[ooba]

I've been called scum partners with everyone this game I think - sans Mollie maybe.

MS - me being scum with ZZZX is unlikely. My second vote on him would have been the plurality clincher and I didn't know deadline was extended till I came back.

[ooba]

metal if u remove the people you town read from players me ooba and alch are left as possible scum (if you were town but oh well...). yet ur bullshiting here about it. dont ya think?

Nope, not bullshitting.

Still maintain that it's 95% you and 60% ooba. I wanted to give him town points after he came off much better against you yesterday, but he's suggesting a lynch on Alchemist...

which is driving me wrong, because someone is bussing here definitely.

I didn't say the Alch lynch was the way I wanted to go today.

I just wanted to see what ZZZX thought about it.

[ooba]

I'm going to

Unvote

for now.

Re-read the days I wasn't that active (late-5/full-6) and be back with findings.

I also welcome Zar's thoughts right now - because paranoia is high with every other slot.

[ooba]

Ooba, I'll talk to you, bounce ideas off me if you have to.

Tangential - but let's talk about Titus VCA.

I know my alignment and wgeurts has already flipped.

This is nowhere close to the accuracy shown in the town games where Titus did a VCA.

These are the notes Titus had.

1.4 - MS is a counterwagon to 2 wagons that were on scum.
1.9 - Dueling scum wagons. If no bussing is assumed, then scum would be in Ooba, Mollie, Zar
Between 1.12 and 1.13, ZZZX tipped the lynch to Hoopla over Kagami.
Hoopla wagon has 1 flipped scum on it. Others haven't flipped.
2.12 & 2.13 - Mollie is counterwagon to Kagami; ZZZX switched to Kagami from Mollie
2.18 - Mollie, Ooba, and Grey all voting for Sotty
2.19 - GI votes Nacho, followed by wgeurts and ZZZX
Mollie comes on, Kagami hammers Nacho

Zar is Town due to Sotty votes, Grey would have to be bussing frequently to be scum, and Mollie has generally good votes.

Again, her lynch pool after this is Ooba, ZZZX, and wgeurts.

I want to work with GI here.

VOTE: wgeurts

[ooba]

So it again boils down to MS\Alch vs a slightly possible mollie\ZZZX. Voting patterns fit etc.

Alch
- your analysis is so shallow.
- Your slot completely ignores everything from the point I replaced in - and this is for ABR, Titus VCA etc. etc. - because it's quite clear I'm town this game.
- Your slot cherry picks points against Sera. Even greyIce called the ISO "Sera's heart was in the right place etc"
- Me with ZZZX is impossible because my vote would have lynched him if not for the deadline mixup

And you still haven't answered 'Who's scum if I flip town?'

[ooba]

VOTE: alchemist

This is interesting - why an Alch preference over Metal?

[ooba]

If you flip Town I would think MS/Zar. I really doubt you'll flip Town though.

Do you really think Empire would have attacked Metal on the "Tokens" thing early game?

[ooba]

mebbe I am wrong. I don't know. in my heart I feel like alchey or metal is the best place to start.

I get what you're saying - it's just that if you both had stayed at Metal - this would have been the situation:

ZZZX (2) - ZZZX,
Metal (2) - Mollie, ZZZX
Alch (1) - Zar

With me deciding between ZZZX and Metal. By shifting to Alchemist (and by virtue of making sure Alch reaches 3 votes first) - you've made it effectively, lynch Alch today.

If it is you\ZZZX, the shift to Alch was a strategic one.

[ooba]

VOTECOUNT 7.13

Alchemist (3) - Zar, Pirate Mollie, ZZZX
ZZZX (2) - Metal Sonic, Alchemist

Not Voting (1) - Ooba

With 6 alive, it is 4 to lynch.

ZZZX is V/LA until 5/6.

Deadline is 5/6 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-05-06 18:00:00).

Mollie if you're online let me know.

[ooba]

VOTECOUNT 7.13

Alchemist (3) - Zar, Pirate Mollie, ZZZX
ZZZX (2) - Metal Sonic, Alchemist

Not Voting (1) - Ooba

With 6 alive, it is 4 to lynch.

ZZZX is V/LA until 5/6.

Deadline is 5/6 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-05-06 18:00:00).

Mollie if you're online let me know.

I just got on.

can you stop being a paranoid freakshow of a player for

5 fucking minutes

I think you are town here cos I have the sudden overwhelming desire to strangle you which is exactly what i wanted to do in lost rooms when you, far and tere wandered off chasing shiny things while wis and I patiently waited for you guys to lynch scummy guyett and klazam. I never feel this way when you are scum ever.

I feel like metal is practically announcing he is scum right now and i will take out an insurance policy

on you and eat you and then send the insurance money to your soon to be wife if you try to rationalize that he is somehow town.

zzthing plz stop talking to scum.

I'm not rationalizing that he's town.

I just think he's the better lynch vs Alchem. (Because it also helps in case of MS+Zar. Zar's been pushing Alch throughout the day)

Vote: MS

[ooba]

And since the three of us are online, we can lynch MS.

The way I see it - it's most probably MS-Alch - but lynching MS is a hedging thing for the 5% case where it is MS-Zar.

[ooba]

@ooba do you need anything from ika since he is here atm?

Nah - not particularly.

[ooba]

And since the three of us are online, we can lynch MS.

The way I see it - it's most probably MS-Alch - but lynching MS is a hedging thing for the 5% case where it is MS-Zar.

see I was wondering in paranoiaville

if it was somehow alchey and zarella cos of how subdued they both are

. but I am good with lynching metal since I think there is a good chance that alchey and metal are scum together. metal is flat out lying at this point about zzthing, he is dodging, deflecting, strawmanning as well as using sleazy scum tactics.

VOTE: metal

eta: don't worry I said the same thing to ika in hu2 when he kept talking to scum!titus!

Yeah. But Zar scum with Alch would have definitely switched his vote out from Alch. Keeping a vote on a scum partner before V\LA or even the time he popped in in between - makes me think not scum partners.

[ooba]

Just to remind

ZZZX

- you need to change your vote to Metal. Else it's you on the chopping block right now!

[ooba]

Same goes for ooba, I never got a good impression of you cause you were lurky as heck in our past games, but your skills show in this game. Unless you are scum, then I take that back. But yeah, this is a different side to you

Thank you for making the game exciting

<3

[ooba]

Vote: Alchemist

[ooba]

Vote: zar

If its one of you, lets take it up at LyLo.

[ooba]

Unvote

Dan advices caution and says we should take the time to think about it.

[ooba]

Zar & Ooba in Me - mollie - the other guy who do you think is the most likely ot be scum? who is the most likely to be town out of mollie./the other guy? i would like to do a quick experament

I told Dan that I wouldn't want either of you to know who I'd vote in LyLo if Zar isn't the scum.

---

Anyway here are my thoughts from memory before I re-read stuff:

a) Mollie:

FOR: Mollie has consistently followed me onto two scum lynches in this game so far.
- D2: Mollie was on the Sotty lynch
- D4: Mollie jumping onto the MS wagon at my request

ooba if you are scum again and I wind up trusting you then all I can say is fuck you. and not in a mean way.

VOTE: metal

I love you.

I promise you I'm not scum this game.

Checking back - neither was L-1 and mollie left both these wagons.

- AGAINST: She voted Alch over MS initially on D8
- FOR: I thought her tone - especially the "stop being paranoid for five fucking minutes" was town
- FOR: Replacing in - Mala thinks she wouldn't have done it as scum

b) ZZZX

AGAINST: You stonewalled the MS push on D4. I remember the 24-hour countdown to vote MS - which then never happened
FOR: MS's push against you on D8. Although with the note that it was late in the game.

- Also the tone throughout the game has appeared town to me. Although we differ on what optimal play is (Forming town blocs vs lynching scum) - I think the play comes from town. The forcefulness of the plan suggestions on D4 especially.

c) Zar

- FOR: The token thing on D1 that Empire brought out against MS
- FOR: General play - calling GI conftown, keeping me in the 'town' bracket was not something I saw scum doing
- AGAINST: D8 is the clincher here - with both ZZZX and mollie being proactive towards lynching scum. Zar's final hammer vote didn't matter. Plus he was pushing Alch all through D4.

I'm willing to lynch Zar on the basis of D8 alone. I'll be thrilled if this goes to a three-person endgame.

Also, I was going through Empire's posts for the token thing. Every initial post seems to set up a associative with a scum partner

Spoiler:

#3: ZZZX ~ MS
@ZZZX: One of my teammates wants you to go into detail regarding your early Metal Sonic townread so can you do that for us and tell us what you know about his playstyle and what differentiates his town game from his scum game?

#4: Nacho ~ Sotty
Hmmm, Nacho, why did interject regarding Grey's vote on Sotty before she'd posted?

#6: ZZZX ~ Kagami
SilverWolf: #55 reads like contribution without contribution, mostly just posting agreeable stuff with no original content - the townread on ZZZX at the end of it seems a bit tacked on.

#6: Wgeurts ~ Kagami
@wgeurts: If you suspect SilverWolf as your earlier posts suggest and you find ABR's point against Silver a genuine one, why aren't you voting for her?

[ooba]

the thing with zarella is that I wld think that emp wld spend his tokens on rolling town not scum. plus i don't think emp pointing out that metal was lying about the tokens wld come from scummate!him. so its 1 of you 2. I think its ooba.

VOTE: ooba

there is a chance it is zzthing but wis swear's that zzthing has said some things that only town zzthing wld say.

I'll just say this in my defense in case we go to three person endgame with ZZZX:

DO NOT DO ANYTHING STUPID

Read my ISO
- My initial entry on D2 where I though the two scum were Sotty\Kagami+???+???
-

My D4 push on MS ALONE should more than clear me

- Plus the bonus fact that I averted a bad D7 by switching MS and Alch.

[ooba]

if you are town you need to chill. noone is insta hammering noone at lylo so we can have a good long talk about it if it gets to there.

If the one town votes the other, the scum would insta hammer. Or maybe you mean nobody is going to 'insta vote'?

^pedit: He probably is the last scum - but lets see what he has to say. Dan convinced me that nothing good comes out of rushing.

[ooba]

Mollie, you keep using the phrase "do you honestly think". The fact is you changed your vote from MS to Alch and Alch would have been lynched if I hadn't intervened. So yes, that is an 'AGAINST' point in favor of you.

Do you honestly think any of my D4 posts come from a MS-scumbuddy?

I'm going 1:1 with Metal Sonic. Your town bloc is broken and I need to take steps to fix it.

Lynch him. If he flips town, you can kill me tomorrow.

Vote: MS

Just literally open the tab where he pleads to Nacho to change the lists and tell me you don't see scum partner with Sotty\Kagami written all over it.

My endgame is to survive 8 straight lynches after lynching my scumbuddy? Please

[ooba]

Also, mollie, we did not bid any scum tokens. We used three town tokens here and we used two town tokens for Regfan

to keep his sanity

.

Dan calls BS on this.

He says it is apparent you spent tokens to avoid theme and normal games. Also, if anyone got town tokens in your team, he says it would have been Mina.

[ooba]

I feel like ooba is calculatedly and selectively scumhunting. the reasons he is applying as to why he is town are the same reasons why I shld be a lock in for a town read and that bothers me cos that isn't what he is doing, he is trying to find some reason to cling to as to why I might be scum. it seems like he is planning for lylo when if he really thought zarella was scum he shldn't be thinking that at all.

If by selective scum hunting, you mean pushing for scum lynches all game then sure.

Also, that point was FOR\AGAINST. You did choose to vote Alchemist over MS on that day and that's something a MS scumbuddy would have done.

But you miss the forest for the trees - overall, that post was very positive about you. If we had gone to LyLo, I would voted ZZZX over you. Especially since ZZZX posted like "Zar & Ooba in Me - mollie - the other guy who do you think is the most likely ot be scum? who is the most likely to be town out of mollie./the other guy? i would like to do a quick experament" - which seems more like LyLo info collection to see how I would vote.

---

Anyway,
- Mollie choose to vote me today
- ZZZX "ATM my mind is saying kill zar and gut is saying it ooba."

If the Zar thing doesn't end the game today, the town person in you has to stop being an idiot and handing the game over to scum.

Vote: Zar

Just read my goddamn ISO.

[ooba]

if me, you and zzthing are all town I think i might order tshirts for all of us that says, "I SURVIVED A NIGHTLESS GAME" which neither of you will wear cos probably neither of you are as geeky as me but I am hoping you will at least wear it for 5 minutes and take a picture of it and send it to me.

I would wear this!

As much as I like voting people trying to lynch me (they really do tend to flip scum) I remain remarkably unconvinced on MS. The lying stuff early game was awful, but this has been super town play.

Also I'm tired of having my vote cajoled around. If I'd played the fucking asshole and death tunneled my scum reads off the bat and told ABR to go shove his head up his ass, we'd probably be like... 8:2.

Wguerts is scum.

D4 was lost when Grey wouldn't join the MS wagon. After that, I was too spent and distracted by RL.

[ooba]

WHILE WE WAIT FOR ZARELLA

what colour shld we choose?

I was thinking white background.

Text in black with "NIGHTLESS" in red.

Image to the left of the text - something that has a silhouette of a mafia character in black with a cap. Hopefully add a gun and a rope somewhere in that image without spoiling the text.

[ooba]

WHILE WE WAIT FOR ZARELLA

what colour shld we choose?

I was thinking white background.

Text in black with "NIGHTLESS" in red.

Image to the left of the text - something that has a silhouette of a mafia character in black with a cap. Hopefully add a gun and a rope somewhere in that image without spoiling the text.

Or we could have all the avatars of players playing the game. (No colors - Grey tone) Everyone who got lynched should have a red cross on top of them. The three of us survive.

[ooba]

Zar, I don't understand this token stuff because I'm a replacement.

I'm relaying what Dan told me. He's reading the thread - so if you have anything specific countering that - post it here and he'll reply.