Mini 493: Methodical Mafia - Game Over!

[VampanezeHunter]

I've finished 2 games, I have also been lynched in another but it not at game over, but am playing 3 others including this! But I don't know any other Mafia site! I'm getting the feeling that the experienced players don't like me because I'm kind of new!

[Xdaamno]

okay i reckon we can turn this night start into a day start by using the vig's kill as the d0 lynch. i am of the opinion that this would be a good thing - although there are downsides the benefit is i think well worth it. thoughts?

Personally, I seriously doubt there's a vig in this game at all, due to the methodical way of actions... Though I guess it can't hurt to decide upon a vig 'lynch', and if there isn't one then we've hardly done ourselves any harm.

[Xdaamno]

I've finished 2 games, I have also been lynched in another but it not at game over, but am playing 3 others including this! But I don't know any other Mafia site! I'm getting the feeling that the experienced players don't like me because I'm kind of new!

The correct play would probably be to call appeal to emotion (?), but I don't see people of his experience performing things like that very often...

And I

seriously

doubt anyone would hate you because you're new XD

[VampanezeHunter]

Oh few. It's just gut feeling that they want someone else instead of me. I hope you're right (which you probably are). Anyway I know experience helps but this is my first mini theme game and I am excited! Um also I have a question...How many of the roles are pro-town(except the townie role)?

[Erg0]

okay i reckon we can turn this night start into a day start by using the vig's kill as the d0 lynch. i am of the opinion that this would be a good thing - although there are downsides the benefit is i think well worth it. thoughts?

Upside: The vig alone is not responsible for deciding the kill; any pro-town power roles get a chance to claim rather than be (more or less) randomly killed.

Downside: Scum get to vote on who to kill and exert influence over the decision; we may not want to force power roles into claiming D0.

Could go either way. The benefit or detriment to the town really depends on how competent and/or lucky the power roles are in making decisions for themselves.

[Mr. Flay]

/confirm

"Vigilante" is also the classic SK claim, and I'm not sure how certain a gambit it is. Mafia Doctors are not unheard of, and would actually be easier in a game like this because they'd have less names to want to protect. If we get a clear lynch target D0 though, it's worth a shot.

I think LML's plan is crap, but if he wants to die N1... :shrug:

[Seol]

Upside: The vig alone is not responsible for deciding the kill; any pro-town power roles get a chance to claim rather than be (more or less) randomly killed.

i would hope that any methodical vig is not expecting to kill every night.

Downside: Scum get to vote on who to kill and exert influence over the decision; we may not want to force power roles into claiming D0.

scum participating in the voting is not actually a downside. :teach:

day 0 claims (and general info leakage) is the downside.

flay: what do you mean by vigilante is the classic sk claim? i mean i recognise the truth of the statement but who are you addressing? fwiw i'm not suggesting the vig, if one exists, claims.

and obv lml's plan is crap, we can move on from thinking about implementing it now i hope?

I've finished 2 games, I have also been lynched in another but it not at game over, but am playing 3 others including this! But I don't know any other Mafia site! I'm getting the feeling that the experienced players don't like me because I'm kind of new!

The correct play would probably be to call appeal to emotion (?), but I don't see people of his experience performing things like that very often...

the correct play is not to assume that logical fallacies from newbies need to be attacked.

And I

seriously

doubt anyone would hate you because you're new XD

exactly. you will be treated differently, because you

are

different. your inexperience will affect your play. that does not mean we do not like you, or that you detract from the game experience as a whole - on the contrary, a mix of new and experienced players usually leads to the most interesting games.

plus, if you're scum, you'll be easy to catch, which is always nice.

[Nocmen]

Wow...I come to find the thread has been up for about 6 hours, and already on page 2 with a role claim?

I agree with others, how would we know for certain there is a vig in the game? I can see how it would fit perfectly in this game though, but for the first time this style is being done, the playskill required to pull it off in something like this would be amazing luck, or would sort of defeat the purpose of a vig. A vig usually is the town's second lynch of the day, and without the day to gain information on who may be scum, the vig would really not have a lead to go on, making me think that it would not be here.

LML's plan: I think its scum getting us to try that in order for him to figure out all the powerroles the town has.

[Seol]

We don't know for certain there's a vig.

The fundamental purpose of the vig is

not

just the second lynch of the day. It's often used that way, but the point of a vig is to have a kill that is decided by an individual who is pro-town as opposed to by consensus.

I agree that without a pre-submission discussion phase, the vig would be firing pretty much randomly and it would be arguable what the point of such a role was. However, we do have a pre-submission discussion phase and I imagine that was taken into account in designing the game. So we might have a vig, or we might not.

So there's two questions re my plan. Do we want to act as if we have a lynch "today" if we do have a vig? And do we want to act as if we have a lynch "today" if we don't? I suspect we want to act as if we have a lynch today in both circumstances.

[Mr. Flay]

flay: what do you mean by vigilante is the classic sk claim? i mean i recognise the truth of the statement but who are you addressing? fwiw i'm not suggesting the vig, if one exists, claims.

I mean just that, addressed to you I suppose since you suggested the vig-lynch. An SK must kill (usually), so the most likely pro-town claim they can get away with (for a while) is Vigilante, or perhaps Bomb. However both seem unlikely in this game, due to how everything works.

Then again, a one-shot seems sort of odd for this game as well, so I'd be content with a vig-lynch target of LML.

[Seol]

Well, if the SK wants to kill our agreed pseudolynch target for us tonight, I'm fine with that too.

[BrianMcQueso]

/confirm

I'm weary of LML's plan. Let's look at the best case scenario: all pro-town power roles target LML tonight. This includes cop investigation and doctor protection, but excludes roleblocking, as common sense says that a roleblocking would block him from receiving information, and vigilante, which, coupled with a mafia kill, would be two kills, and typical doctor protection only prevents one. The cop would know of LML's innocence, and LML would know of the cop and doctor's identities (though not which is which, I assume). This would form a pseudo-masonry between the three, and LML could theoretically shoot down fake claims of either power role.

However, because of all the hooplah, mafia would be less inclined to fake claim, voiding the usefulness of LML's gambit. Also, there is always the argument that a cop or doctor chose not to target LML for whatever reason. All in all, there seems little to gain from this decision.

On the other hand, let's look at worst-case scenario: LML is a lying scumbag. What do we stand to lose from going through this plan? A cop investigation would reveal a guilty result on him, unless he has Godfather protection. The doctor protection would be wasted for one night, but the odds of the doctor protecting the mafia's target randomly on Night 1 is rather low anyway. Is there some other drawback that I'm missing?

In my opinion, it appears we have little to gain or lose whether we follow LML's plan or not.

On a separate note, I have doubts that there would be a vigilante in this game. A vigilante's job is to pick off those he finds scummy on his own accord without needing the town's consensus. Having to decide all your kills ahead of time and essentially shooting randomly negates that entire purpose.

[Xdaamno]

You've basically just repeated what everyone else has said, IMO...

[BrianMcQueso]

You think I read what other people post?

[distad]

/confirm. Sorry for the delay, guys.

[Xdaamno]

You think I read what other people post?

Oh, in that case, well done!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Vig should kill LmL. YARR!

[Mr. Flay]

Well, if the SK wants to kill our agreed pseudolynch target for us tonight, I'm fine with that too.

*laugh* Fair enough, I guess there wouldn't be much difference at that point.

So assuming we've in fact discarded LML's plan, how do we proceed with D0? Having people take a stand today might be useful for determining *actual* nightchoices, and it'll give us something to build from D1.

[VampanezeHunter]

What do you mean by taking a stand?

[Glork]

/confirm.


I a very seriously considering generating my list by some random and/or arbitrary manner (if indeed I have a list of targets to make). I have not yet looked at my role (only seen that I have a role PM for this game).

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

FoS: Glrok

[VampanezeHunter]

FoS: Glrok

Please explain!

[LoudmouthLee]

I assumed there would be no vig (god, a vig in methodical mafia? in the hands of CES or Fritzler or anything like that? It's like having an SK)

I made the assumption there was only one killing party. It was a mistake, and I will surely die from it.

I was trying to gain an edge for the town here. Sorry I didn't think it through as seriously as I should have.

[Seol]

I made the assumption there was only one killing party. It was a mistake, and I will surely die from it.

Now here, Xdaamno, it

is

correct to call appeal to emotion. Seriously Lee, this is just

cloying

.

I was trying to gain an edge for the town here. Sorry I didn't think it through as seriously as I should have.

Mistakes are one thing. The way they're handled is another. I'm not in the least bit comfortable with how you handled it.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

FoS: Glrok

Please explain!

Glrok is clearly trying to avoid any responsibility for his list (if he makes one) and at the same time by pretending not to have read his PM he's trying to avoid being judged this Day 0 on his play.

This Day 0 is very important. This is not the time for Irresponsible Glrok. This is the time for Useful Scumhunting Glrok.