Mini 493: Methodical Mafia - Game Over!


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Post Post #100 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:10 am

Post by Glork »

Mod:
A clarification on the rules.... since you say "
all
players with night choices must send me a list of
all
their targets for the entire game," can we safely assume that there are ZERO night choices that can be switched or decided upon mid-game?


I have to say, I think that a lot of this strategic list-making hubbub is really pointless. And that's why I proposed making a random list to begin with. I've already thought of a mafia kill strategy that mitigates the usefulness of a Doctor role (other than possibly a lucky strike or a single Doctor strategy which I don't find likely to be employed), the Watcher claim could theoretically be prevented through the use of a Mafia Roleblocker or some such similar role. The "measures to prevent against claims" bit could be something like a one-shot Mafia Daykill (which would
NOT
be a night choice and, could potentially be decided at any point in time).

Point being, we have no idea what we're up against. While the scums are somewhat in the dark, too, they obviously have *WAY* more information than we do. Does anybody else remember the lengthy discussion that dominated the beginning of Lights Out 2 and ultimately led to virtually nothing useful being accomplished? It revolved around the fact that the game was non-mountainous, that rainbow brite said she'd taken steps to prevent game-breaking strategies, and then a bunch of town players kept trying to break the game... such as when Stoof made his ill-advised claim.

I think all I've gotten out of this is that LML is almost definitely town. Other than that, I really doubt I'll care if I have a role ability. I'd just pick my targets as best as I thought I could, on a complete whim, and see how things fall out.
This game is going to be won or lost on the strength of our day play, not on the strength of the night choices we choose.
I would suggest that we all keep that in mind and not put too much focus on our lists.
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Post Post #101 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:11 am

Post by Glork »

EBWODP:
Glork wrote:Mod: A clarification on the rules.... since you say "all players with night choices must send me a list of all their targets for the entire game," can we safely assume that there are ZERO night choices that can be switched or decided upon mid-game?
...that is, after they are initially chosen and D0 comes to an end.
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Post Post #102 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:20 am

Post by Mr Stoofer »

Further clarification:
Mr Stoofer wrote:
How to play Methodical Mafia


Instead of submitting choices each night, during Night 1 all players with night choices must send me a list of all their targets for the entire game (
unless otherwise stated in your role PM
). On Night 1, your target will be the first player on your list. On Night 2 your target will be the next player on your list, and so on. If the next player on your list was dead when the Night began, I will ignore their name and go down to the next name, and so on until I get to a living player. Once I get to the end of the list, I will start again at the top of the list.
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Post Post #103 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:33 am

Post by Glork »

Stoof sucks and just gave me my role PM via AIM. :(
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Post Post #104 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:43 am

Post by distad »

Well, after Stoof modkills Glork for insubordinance, I guess we'll find out whether he's scum or not...
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Post Post #105 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:49 am

Post by Mr Stoofer »

It so tempting... but no.
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Post Post #106 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:18 am

Post by Cogito Ergo Sum »

Yay for Stoofs!

Glrok, it doesn't really matter what we're up against. I'm not certainly advocating claims or, for that matter, even trying to figure out the set-up. I just want to use this Day 0 productively to get an idea of people's alignments and use that to create half-useful lists. Of course the day game is important, but a good night game can sure help.
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Post Post #107 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:34 pm

Post by Mr Stoofer »

VitaminR replaces ojpower.


If you have already sent me a list, you do not need to resend it -- I'll just replace any occurrences of ojpower with VitaminR. But please feel free to send me a revised list at any time until deadline.

As for those who need to send me a list and haven't done so, remember that your deadline is
12 noon BST on Friday 31st August
. It might be a good idea to send me a provisional list now which you can revise at any time up until the deadline.
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Post Post #108 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:54 pm

Post by Cogito Ergo Sum »

*hi-fives VitaminR*

Note: this game is awesome.
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Post Post #109 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:41 pm

Post by Erg0 »

Like any first day, the more information we draw out today the better. I have a feeling that this game will end up being decided on a combination of luck with night choices and good play during the day, though.
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Post Post #110 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:09 am

Post by VitaminR »

*hi-fives CES*

I have been reading along, so I'm up to speed. I'll type out my thoughts tomorrow.
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Post Post #111 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:33 am

Post by Mr Stoofer »

For logistical reasons, I'm going to have to move the deadline for Day 0 to
9am BST on Wednesday 29th August
. Lists must be sent to me by then. Provisional lists are encouraged.
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Post Post #112 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:52 pm

Post by VitaminR »

LML's claim strikes me as too ill-conceived for a townie to do. On the other hand, I like his suspicions of Mr. Flay. Also, watcher results are very difficult to fake.
Nocmen wrote:LML's plan: I think its scum getting us to try that in order for him to figure out all the powerroles the town has.
Nocmen, why do you think this?

Mr. Flay makes me uneasy.
Mr. Flay wrote:So assuming we've in fact discarded LML's plan, how do we proceed with D0? Having people take a stand today might be useful for determining *actual* nightchoices, and it'll give us something to build from D1.
Asking Seol how we should proceed is scummy and lazy at best.

I also didn't like his "speak English or die, Lee"-belligerence, nor his talk about SKs.

I agree with CES about not generating random lists. I don't really see what benefits they would give us, aside from taking some of the enjoyment out of the game.

CES is obviously pro-town, btw.

This sort of cautious suspicion is scummy:
Xdaamno wrote:Personally, I wasn't ready to cast much suspiscion on LmL after the flawed course of action presented near the start (I could imagine a town player doing this), but after statements like:
You're defense of Flay is noted, Seol.
I'm not so sure. I didn't take it exactly that way, so this could be twisting words.
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Post Post #113 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:49 pm

Post by Glork »

I've also been thinking, it seems as though the mafia would want to talk as little as possible today, whereas the town should be discussing lots in-thread. Minus points to everyone who is slacking.
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Post Post #114 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:25 am

Post by VampanezeHunter »

I'm back! Damn I lost points! Well I have to appologise for not posting much.
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Post Post #115 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:38 pm

Post by Mr. Flay »

VitaminR wrote:Mr. Flay makes me uneasy.
Mr. Flay wrote:So assuming we've in fact discarded LML's plan, how do we proceed with D0? Having people take a stand today might be useful for determining *actual* nightchoices, and it'll give us something to build from D1.
Asking Seol how we should proceed is scummy and lazy at best.
What made you think I was asking Seol for advice? I was trying to spark discussion from the group, something that's been widely lacking (probably because it's not like we can really push for a lynch today).

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Post Post #116 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:50 pm

Post by Nocmen »

VitaminR wrote:
Nocmen wrote:LML's plan: I think its scum getting us to try that in order for him to figure out all the powerroles the town has.
Nocmen, why do you think this?
When I first read that, I was like "This could maybe work, but I doubt everyone would be cooperative of him in order to get it to work right. If he can figure out how to limit down the possible scum it would work. On the other hand, if he is scum, he can use this to figure out who the powerroles are (if they believe and target him)." I just thought that because it would have a better chance of helping the scum than town (elminating a few people from possible Mafia would be good, but the mafia could use that to figure out who is power roles). I know that it depends on what side LML is on, but if he was scum, it would hurt the town way more than if he was town the way it would hurt the scum. Though thinking more, after I said that, this becomes sort of a moot point due to the fact that even if he was scum, the list would already have been made, but that still would help the scum greatly (they would know power roles, thus making them targets for lynch the next few days, and hell...they may have a way to get around the lists).
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Post Post #117 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:36 pm

Post by Cogito Ergo Sum »

Sounds... genuine.
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Post Post #118 (ISO) » Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:27 am

Post by Mr Stoofer »

Simenon replaces Vampaneze Hunter.
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Post Post #119 (ISO) » Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:36 am

Post by Simenon »

Big posts require long rereads.
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Post Post #120 (ISO) » Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:58 am

Post by Simenon »

I'm going to try something new here. Instead of doing a massive IH-post with questions and quotes for everyone, I'm going to be pointing out specific exchanges in different posts.

As a general overview, all of LML and BMQs' posts have struck me as scummy in some way or another, and most of Flay's have as well.

I'm first going to take a look at the following

Bmq makes his first post in the thread with a lengthy explanation of all things that were already discussed at large. LML's plan was already discarded at this point, even by LML himself. Why, then, does BMQ feel the need to elaborate so much on why the plan won't work? His explanation later (I will get to it) states jokingly that he doesn't actually read the posts before. Well, even if he skimmed the rest of the thread, he would have noticed LML discard his own idea. His conclusion doesn't really put the plan into any new perspective. His last sentence isn't even an original comment: that argument was already made by Xdaamno.

Speaking of Xdaamno, In post 37 he points out just what I had in my notes. And how does BMQ reply?
You think I read what other people post? :lol:
If that's true, as I pointed out earlier, he still should have known that even LML didn't support his own plan (call it mindgames or not, debating the validity of it doesn't really make sense).
If that's not true, well, I think restating just what other players have said and not even adding any sort of suspicion is scummy.

I think Xdaamno response to this is even more bizarre:
Oh, in that case, well done!:wink:


Notice how quickly he drops the issue, and with a wink smiley. This is especially scummy considering how disappointing BMQ's excuse is.

Also note: BMQ stole the "there may be no vigs in this setup" argument from Xdaamno in the first place.

It does not surprise me then that BMQ posts exactly what he did in his first post for his third post, which is another post that only elaborates on what others have said, adds nothing new, and does not express any sort of suspicion towards anyone.

So, therefore:
Fos BMQ

Fos Xdaamno


If we could vote, I would totally be voting BMQ, but I'm not sure what stoofer would do. :[
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Post Post #121 (ISO) » Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:07 am

Post by Cogito Ergo Sum »

Wuss.

Vote: BMQ
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Post Post #122 (ISO) » Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:21 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

VampanzeeHunter's replacement is...uhh, noted? :?

Actually, Simenon, you mention that I'm third on your list, but don't elaborate at all. Is that forthcoming?

CES: You're tampering with the fabric of space-time there, buddy.

distad, any more thoughts?
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Post Post #123 (ISO) » Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:49 am

Post by distad »

Yeah, Flay... I have some thoughts.

I think that we're all just playing with ourselves here. I don't think that any of this is needed. The scum are going to come up with their lists, and a lot of that will probably be random. The doc will come up with a list, again, probably just random. The cop will come up with a list, again, more or less just random.

Further, I'd be willing to bet that we DO have a vig in here. Stoof made a point of clarifying the rule that all power roles have to send in a list *unless otherwise specified in the role PM*. There probably is that provision in the vig's pm.

At this point, I think that we should just crack open a beer, sit back, get to Night, and then get our game on.
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Post Post #124 (ISO) » Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:54 am

Post by Nocmen »

distad wrote:Yeah, Flay... I have some thoughts.

I think that we're all just playing with ourselves here. I don't think that any of this is needed. The scum are going to come up with their lists, and a lot of that will probably be random. The doc will come up with a list, again, probably just random. The cop will come up with a list, again, more or less just random.

Further, I'd be willing to bet that we DO have a vig in here. Stoof made a point of clarifying the rule that all power roles have to send in a list *unless otherwise specified in the role PM*. There probably is that provision in the vig's pm.

At this point, I think that we should just crack open a beer, sit back, get to Night, and then get our game on.
See...I don't agree with this. Sure, the lists may be random, but we are getting some good tells out of what people are doing. This is discussion that most of the game is actually participating in, and I feel it is good for the town. By saying you don't want discussion seems to me as if you don't want your scumminess to be revealed.

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