Blitz 1: C9++ (GAME OVER!)

[Firebringer]

Ocean's iso is also sound and this wagon is probably also bad. I will also be looking into this one.

Okay.....wish this had more detail.

[vonflare]

confirm

[Persivul]

You two can definitely be not group scum. The interpretation is wrong, but I did everything said

Like choose BP over investigation immunity? Is that a slip?

and you don't know I am town. So you'd be dumb not to consider it.

The vig crumbs were apparent. Those could benefit either a vig or an SK making a vig fakeclaim, so I didn't mention those at the time.

Outing the possible cop crumb doesn't benefit a vig. It could benefit a SK. Have scum do your dirty work for you. If you're concerned there's a doc, you also target cop, as doc only stops one kill.

In hindsight, your push for a massclaim without being able to convey the town benefits makes perfect sense. If there's a real vig, your plan won't work, so you need to know.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Titus

[Firebringer]

confirm

Join us on the Ocean wagon.
We are forming a gang, the Rooks!

[Kop]

@Kop

This is an interesting progression:

263 - You respond to the post in which I said Blocky's wagon was bad, commented on Ranger's proposed town block, and commented on lurkers. You completely ignored the part about Blocky, only commenting on town blocks and lurkers. So, you didn't think my position on the Blocky wagon was an issue.

307 - You list the votes on Blocky and note that they lack substance. So, you seem to agree with me.

313 - You vote me without explanation, at ETL's request.

316 - You make a weak wifom argument which you could have made back in 263 if you thought it had merit.

Other than sheeping ETL, you've mostly talked about the breaking issue or just made small talk. There's very little original scum hunting coming from you.

I'll admit about post 263, I didn't fully read the whole of your post in great detail. I quickly glanced over it and saw your comments on Ranger, then saw you mention my name.

Post 307, I quoted all of the votes, to which I think need a look at, because there is one at least who is scum on that wagon. You kind of have a point to what you were making, but that still doesn't rule out that you could be the other scum who doesn't join the wagon, and actually try to convince town there wrong in this lynch. It might not be the case, but I'm sure, you would have seen it over the time of playing mafia, so I can't rule it out.

313, I think the whole point of what she made against you, is viable, and I somewhat agree with it. I'm not ruling things out.

316, that is a case of I didn't think about it at the time I made post 263, when I was joining the whole case, that's when it came to mind, and I put it out there.

[Rob14]

Vote Count #1.16:

OceanWind:

ProHawk, Titus, Firebringer, Flubbernugget (4)

Titus:

OceanWind, EspeciallyTheLies, Persivul (3)

Marge:

Ythan, Kraeg (2)

ProHawk:

Vonflare, Ranger (2)

Persivul:

Kop, Marge (2)

Not Voting:

None.

With 13 people alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

V/LA:

None.

Deadline:

(expired on 2015-11-05 12:37:00)

[Titus]

You two can definitely be not group scum. The interpretation is wrong, but I did everything said

Like choose BP over investigation immunity? Is that a slip?

and you don't know I am town. So you'd be dumb not to consider it.

The vig crumbs were apparent. Those could benefit either a vig or an SK making a vig fakeclaim, so I didn't mention those at the time.

Outing the possible cop crumb doesn't benefit a vig. It could benefit a SK. Have scum do your dirty work for you. If you're concerned there's a doc, you also target cop, as doc only stops one kill.

In hindsight, your push for a massclaim without being able to convey the town benefits makes perfect sense. If there's a real vig, your plan won't work, so you need to know.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Titus

I meant the vig crumbs and the highlighting I thought FB was crumbing so he'd tone it down.

I'd never take BP though if I was SK. Check Titus n1 is de facto rule one in 99.9% of games. I'm suspicious if a cop doesn't check me N1. I considered the "BP" thing as speculation. SKs select the BP/Investigation immune pregame. I couldn't take BP planning on crumbs. Doubly so considering I suck with crumbs.

If there's another vig claimer, they should claim solely because my existence either townfirms them universally or pits us in a very likely one v one.

I guess I need to take a dose of my own medicine.

[Titus]

Said 1 v 1 would be resolved with bullets.

[Persivul]

I meant the vig crumbs and the highlighting I thought FB was crumbing so he'd tone it down.

That sentence doesn't make much sense. Are you saying you explicitly pointed out FB's crumbing so that he'd tone it down? Cause that makes absolutely no sense.

I'd never take BP though if I was SK. Check Titus n1 is de facto rule one in 99.9% of games. I'm suspicious if a cop doesn't check me N1. I considered the "BP" thing as speculation. SKs select the BP/Investigation immune pregame. I couldn't take BP planning on crumbs. Doubly so considering I suck with crumbs.

You could take BP if you thought you could find a cop with a massclaim, which you pushed for hard.

You're either vig or SK. Blatantly pointing out a cop crumb was anti-town. So you're stupid or you're SK, and we all know you're not stupid. That just leaves SK.

[Persivul]

Said 1 v 1 would be resolved with bullets.

No, it would be resolved with rope.

Further, it's not really a 1v1 situation, because the setup allows for more than one vig. You know that. There's also a 48% chance that there's no vig at all. So, CCs (or lack thereof) don't mean much in this setup.

[Titus]

Said 1 v 1 would be resolved with bullets.

No, it would be resolved with rope.

Further, it's not really a 1v1 situation, because the setup allows for more than one vig. You know that. There's also a 48% chance that there's no vig at all. So, CCs (or lack thereof) don't mean much in this setup.

No. I'm confirmed town if there's a full vig and no other 1-shot vig as a one shot vig is required to have a full vig.

A 1 shot vig happening twice requires a full vig as well.

So if someone CCs me, we just shoot each other.

Hence, any other one shot vig should claim.

There's plenty other scenarios like this. Hence why claiming is good. Of course, I just laid that out so

[Titus]

Scratch that last part...

I'm not conftown if a vig claims. Derp. Got my lines backwards.

Resolving Vig CCs with bullets would tell us a lot if we had massclaimed and thus prevent the very scenario you describe.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Is Titus claiming vig or this just more theory stuff?

[Marge]

@Margeside:

I think I'll have more fun in the dead thread seeing persivul try to make up a new scum read, since he hasn't really said anything about any other scum reads.

In 527 I started a case on Kop and nothing's happened to reduce my suspicion there. But:

- I'm more suspicious of you
- There's just a little more than a day left in phase, you have a wagon, and Kop doesn't

This is the time to see if your wagon is viable, not the time to try to start a new one from scratch.

Well bussing on day 1 is bad form for scum.
You push it day 2 and goal for town points then start lurking.

I'm just having fun ruining any plans you have for playing scum this game.

In the mean time your whole case is based on something you did as town and called it scummy.

Still can't believe anyone is town reading that reasoning.

[Titus]

Is Titus claiming vig or this just more theory stuff?

Explicit.

My bargains were just going to be vig shots.

[Titus]

@Margeside:

I think I'll have more fun in the dead thread seeing persivul try to make up a new scum read, since he hasn't really said anything about any other scum reads.

In 527 I started a case on Kop and nothing's happened to reduce my suspicion there. But:

- I'm more suspicious of you
- There's just a little more than a day left in phase, you have a wagon, and Kop doesn't

This is the time to see if your wagon is viable, not the time to try to start a new one from scratch.

Well bussing on day 1 is bad form for scum.
You push it day 2 and goal for town points then start lurking.

I'm just having fun ruining any plans you have for playing scum this game.

In the mean time your whole case is based on something you did as town and called it scummy.

Still can't believe anyone is town reading that reasoning.

Walk me through your Persivul scum reasoning step by step please.

[Marge]

Said 1 v 1 would be resolved with bullets.

No, it would be resolved with rope.

Further, it's not really a 1v1 situation, because the setup allows for more than one vig. You know that. There's also a 48% chance that there's no vig at all. So, CCs (or lack thereof) don't mean much in this setup.

No. I'm confirmed town if there's a full vig and no other 1-shot vig as a one shot vig is required to have a full vig.

A 1 shot vig happening twice requires a full vig as well.

So if someone CCs me, we just shoot each other.

Hence, any other one shot vig should claim.

There's plenty other scenarios like this. Hence why claiming is good. Of course, I just laid that out so

I totally want a high five if you are the sk.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Is Titus claiming vig or this just more theory stuff?

Explicit.

My bargains were just going to be vig shots.

ahahahahaha ok.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

More happy to lynch Titus now.

[Titus]

I'm not the SK, but I'd always give you a high five for the grief we've put each other through.

[Titus]

More happy to lynch Titus now.

Gotta protect Ocean I see.

[Persivul]

Said 1 v 1 would be resolved with bullets.

No, it would be resolved with rope.

Further, it's not really a 1v1 situation, because the setup allows for more than one vig. You know that. There's also a 48% chance that there's no vig at all. So, CCs (or lack thereof) don't mean much in this setup.

No. I'm confirmed town if there's a full vig and no other 1-shot vig as a one shot vig is required to have a full vig.

A 1 shot vig happening twice requires a full vig as well.

So if someone CCs me, we just shoot each other.

Hence, any other one shot vig should claim.

There's plenty other scenarios like this. Hence why claiming is good. Of course, I just laid that out so

Scratch that last part...

I'm not conftown if a vig claims. Derp. Got my lines backwards.

Correct. CCs prove nothing regarding vigs/SKs in this setup.

Resolving Vig CCs with bullets would tell us a lot if we had massclaimed and thus prevent the very scenario you describe.

Again, CCs prove nothing regarding vigs/SKs in this setup.

[Persivul]

I totally want a high five if you are the sk.

You will totally get it. I believe your comment got me thinking in that direction, and it just clearly unfolded as phase progressed.

[Titus]

Wrong.

CCs are both very mathmatically unlikely to both be town.

There's a 10 percent chance of a V in any particular spot. To get three Vs would require a lot of sheer coincidence but I'd say it's less than 5% of both telling the truth. So we'd just shoot each other. If one lived, they were confscum.

[Titus]

I encountered this setup in Open 512 which led to catching Varsoon scum. (The label was different JK9 I believe) but he and Saki CCed each other.