Open 42 - Friends and Enemies - (Game Over) before 495

[Guardian]

Mod Post: Vote Count

Sammich[1](Simenon)

Not Voting[8](AlSleet, Samruc, Lemming1607, ChaosOmega, Jex, Sammich, Shanba, Per)

[Sammich]

Page 5: I replace in.

Page 6: I press a case based on the YB policy lynch situation, but then leave a vote on EmpTyger. Looking back I think the WIFOM case I put on Emp was weak. Lemming says he finds lurking scummy, which I can fully agree with, but at this point YB was totally inactive. Samruc analyzes Sir T and Crub before unvoting and FoSing Crub. I voted Sir T, which now I feel was a pretty weak case. Chaos voted Crub, and FoSed Sir T. Simenon votes Crub for what I feel is for no reason and there was a truly crappy case on him at the time, which Lemming questions but shows not much aggression in attacking Simenon for the vote.

Page 7: Crub votes Simenon, which I think was OMGUS. Crub claims multiple times he would turn up town if he were to be lynched. Shame it was true, Mafia has one up on us now. Despite this, I thought his claims were strange and bogus so I voted him. Jex says she's happy people are looking at Crub. Strange. Simenon keeps advocating a Crub lynch. Lemming finally snaps out of the mold and votes Simenon for his lack of reasoning. Sir T makes a post in which he says Crub is scum. Once again, Simenon says Lemming can be next.

Page 8: Simenon continues his campaign on lynching Crub, and plans on killing Lemming afterwards. Samruc attacks Crub for asking for votes, etc. etc. etc., while Crub does nothing in defense and just keeps saying he's going to turn up town. Jex also pushes the case on Crub. AlSleet is suspicious of Jex.

Page 9: Chaos votes Samruc. Samruc takes a closer look at me, which by all means is fine but then Shanba jumps on it and begins to push a very weak case of his own. Although Simenon tries to push Shanba onto the Crub lynching wagon, Shanba and I go onto a very shortlived discussion about masons, in which I think people took my case for an OMGUS. I admit, the case wasn't really strong but Shanba at the time I thought was scummier than Simenon, Crub, or Samruc or anyone. Simenon, once again, slips himself in to the conversation in advocating Crub's death.

Page 10: Lemming votes me and almost when I fall on the hammering block, Simenon continues his rampage on Crub. AlSleet votes Simenon, who is starting to act reeeeaaallly stupid. Crub this. Crub that. Crub must die. Blah blah blah. Crub votes me, in what I guess is a lame attempt to lynch me instead of himself instead. I OMGUS him, but I unvote afterwards. Shanba votes AlSleet, for lurking I guess.

Page 11: Shanba returns to my wagon. Simenon shuns this decision and pressures the Crub lynch, in which Chaos suddenly jumps onto. Shanba decides to jump onto the Crubwagon. Sir T doesn't post. Per makes an analysis, and jumps onto the Crub-Lynching Squad. Lemming "ends the long-ass day" and hammers Crub, resulting in a bunch of free Snickers, but a dead townie.

So, all in all.
Simenon: Are you happy now? Crub's dead, are you ready to try and kill Lemming?What are you going to do now that your Crublynch campaign backfired?

Shanba: Why weren't you happy with my bandwagon? I seemed the perfect lynch at the time, but you decided to go onto Crub's instead. Did you NK Sir T to put extra heat on me?

Lemming: WTF. That was no reason to hammer Crub, just to end a day. The case on Crub sucked, Simenon was only the real advocate of the cause, and you were obviously happy with your vote on me because you weren't ready to unvote me until Crub was at L1, apparently. Looking back this wasn't a really long day.

Chaos: Why did you agree with Simenon that Crub should've died?

Jex: What was the whole point of the Crubwagon?

Per: What was the point of putting Crub at L1?

AlSleet: Post more.

Samruc: Post More.

FOS Simenon

Your play has been dissapointing from the start. It was nothing but Crub and a slight push on Lemming. What are you trying to prove with tunnel vision? Are you going to try and lead a crusade on me this round?

FOS Lemming

Wtf with ending the day like that? There was a zero case on Crub and your reason, hell, I'd rather call it an excuse was that it was a long-ass day?

FOS Shanba

Did you NK Sir T to put the extra heat on me you couldn't achieve during day 1?

FOS Jex

You haven't found anyone but Crub suspicious during day one. You and Simenon had been pushing his lynch for almost the whole day.

All three of you, I want an explanation, especially Simenon and Lemming.

[Sammich]

EBWOP: **All Four.

[Jex]

FOS Jex

You haven't found anyone but Crub suspicious during day one. You and Simenon had been pushing his lynch for almost the whole day.

To be honest, my activity day 1 sucked. I was truly suspicious of Crub to begin with and didn't like his defenses. Then I lost internet for 2 weeks because I was moving. The few posts I made during the internetless weeks were quick throw ins because I didn't truly have time to read through the posts. In fact I still haven't had time to read the last few pages of day 1, which I plan on doing very soon. My suspicions never really changed because I wasn't reading the thread. You'll notice my activity in all of my games during this period was incredibly poor. Normally when I know I'm going to be inactive I remove my vote from anyone, however, I felt strongly that Crub was scum, so I chose to keep my vote on him while I was gone. He never gave me any reason to think that he wasn't scum. Unfortunately, my instincts were not correct.

[Per]

what.

Well, during D1 you were jumping on bandwagons with no reason (as in "reason to suspect/lynch someone"), and now it seems as though you want to start bandwagons zith no such reason. I'm asking whether that is indeed the case, and if this is another well-considered strategy of yours.

[ChaosOmega]

Chaos: Why did you agree with Simenon that Crub should've died?

Crub was my main suspect the whole time. I thought I saw something a bit off with Samruc, so I changed my vote over to see his response.

As to why I wanted Crub dead, the initial reason was him saying "I think I know who the masons are." There were some other things too, but what sealed it were all of his appeals to emotion afterwards. It just seemed like he didn't think he could win arguing his point, so he just tried to say he's town a lot so we wouldn't lynch him.

[Lemming1607]

oh hey, Sammich coming out with spaghetti FoS'. FoSing a whole bunch of people and hoping one of them sticks.

As for Crub, the mod was threatening a deadline many times in the game, and we were no where near a lynch for anyone else. I was tired of day 1, and nothing new was going to come up. I wanted the game to move on, and I did find crub scummy enough to vote him, I just thought sammich was a better case. Now that Sammich has thrown some spaghetti strategy out as well, I might look into voting him again for day 2.

Although I do like his page by page analysis. That is a nice summation

[Shanba]

Sammich, I don't respond to loaded questions.

[Sir Tornado]

I died? heh, I was actually thinking of making a big post here right now on who I think was scummy before I saw it...

Well, here's the customary: Go town!

[Sammich]

Now that Sammich has thrown some spaghetti strategy out as well, I might look into voting him again for day 2.

What's wrong with multiple FoS's?

[Samruc]

ending this long ass day.

UNVOTE: Sammich VOTE: Crub

This is the worst reason for a hammer I've ever seen... I would have voted you, but I can't find anything else to back up a case against you, on the contrary you looked pretty townish to me up to this post....

Then vote me.

A townie doesn't ask for votes, how many times do I need to say this?

What's wrong with multiple FoS's?

Since you are talking to/about people as though they were scum, I find it very scummy that you do not dare to put your vote on anyone.

Examples:
"Did you NK Sir T to put the extra heat on me you couldn't achieve during day 1?"
"Are you happy now? Crub's dead, are you ready to try and kill Lemming?"

It looks like you are trying to sow as much suspicion as possible, leaving your vote free to fall where it can help you the most. I'm putting this one back where it belongs:

Vote: Sammich

[Shanba]

Then vote me.

A townie doesn't ask for votes, how many times do I need to say this?

This was more to point out that he was being stupid about his suspicions on me than anything else (calling me most suspicious, but not voting me.)

[Sammich]

Since you are talking to/about people as though they were scum, I find it very scummy that you do not dare to put your vote on anyone.

Examples:
"Did you NK Sir T to put the extra heat on me you couldn't achieve during day 1?"
"Are you happy now? Crub's dead, are you ready to try and kill Lemming?"

It looks like you are trying to sow as much suspicion as possible, leaving your vote free to fall where it can help you the most. I'm putting this one back where it belongs:

Vote Sammich

That's stupid.
I didn't HAVE to put my vote on anyone. I would and most likely will put my vote on people. I refuse to be too conservative, but sometimes I don't think a vote is needed. Is that too much?
I'm not trying to sow as much suspicion as possible, I'm saying who I think is scum and if you think it's scummy, then God help you. Samruc, I'm going to still ask questions regardless of the type of pressure I'm putting on, and it doesn't matter if I'm throwing votes around, FOS's, hell, even throwing a TV at someone as long as it's trying to find some scum.

Late edit: BTW, there's nothing wrong with putting a little more on a question. If that's scummy, then so is wearing your hat backwards.

Sammich, I don't respond to loaded questions.

By all means I wouldn't either, but there are lots of things to be desired in means to what happened in Day 1, and it's a priority to not lose another townie. It's a simple question, can be read in one or two breathes, but you still claim it to be loaded. Wtf.

Vote: Shanba

Yes, Samruc, I did place a vote after you're pressing me as to why I'm not throwing votes around as opposed to just a bunch of FOS's. Call it what you will, but I don't care.
Meanwhile. Shanba. Just answer the question and I'll take the vote off, because I am not ready to just have something shrugged off.

To Simenon

: Also, you said Lemming can be next. Are you still happy with that decision? Are we looking at another mislynch? I still find Lemming's hammer strange and somewhat scummy but if you're going to just go after the lynch like you did Crub then drop it right now.

Last part of this Long-ass post

Crub was my main suspect the whole time. I thought I saw something a bit off with Samruc, so I changed my vote over to see his response.

As to why I wanted Crub dead, the initial reason was him saying "I think I know who the masons are." There were some other things too, but what sealed it were all of his appeals to emotion afterwards. It just seemed like he didn't think he could win arguing his point, so he just tried to say he's town a lot so we wouldn't lynch him.

If this is the case I would have had a good, maybe even better chance of getting lynched after Shanba and I (and Sir T and Lemming at one point) had a brief discussion about mason finding so early in the game, which I lost that argument. I was uneasy about the attack conducted on Crub after he said that. I didn't find that scummy at all, and there was no reason for the masons to distance themselves, because I, and most of the people here (other than the masons themselves) still don't know who are the masons.

I'm not trying to be defensive. I'm at L3, I'm not worried yet, and I don't really see a townie being lynched today.

[Simenon]

I have been neglecting this game and for that I apologize. I'll get to Sammich's monster post later. For now:

Well, during D1 you were jumping on bandwagons with no reason (as in "reason to suspect/lynch someone"), and now it seems as though you want to start bandwagons zith no such reason. I'm asking whether that is indeed the case, and if this is another well-considered strategy of yours.

I didn't actually plan to lead a bandwagon, because I couldn't have. Otherwise, yes, I'm changing my playstyle because this one doesn't seem to be working, or rather, the town doesn't want me to use it.

[Shanba]

I'm sorry, but this:

FOS Shanba

Did you NK Sir T to put the extra heat on me you couldn't achieve during day 1?

is a ridiculous question. It uses WIFOM about nightkills, makes an assumption about alignments and is completely useless. Not to mention, I only attacked you once yesterday, and with the way you're playing, it would be completely unnecessary. To hell with this.

Vote: Sammich

Diescumdie. Noone else is even

close

[Lemming1607]

I didn't HAVE to put my vote on anyone. I would and most likely will put my vote on people. I refuse to be too conservative, but sometimes I don't think a vote is needed. Is that too much?
I'm not trying to sow as much suspicion as possible, I'm saying who I think is scum and if you think it's scummy, then God help you.

But there are THREE scum. Not FOUR. You FoS'd more than there are scum, so obviously you can't think everyone is scum. That's why it's spaghetti strategy. You're throwing your suspicions around hoping some of it will stick and THEN you'll vote that person.

FoS: Sammich

I'm only FoSing because I don't want to lynch you until EVERYONE has come out and said what they believe. We need to hear everyone's thoughts before doing anything fast.

[Sammich]

But there are THREE scum. Not FOUR. You FoS'd more than there are scum, so obviously you can't think everyone is scum. That's why it's spaghetti strategy. You're throwing your suspicions around hoping some of it will stick and THEN you'll vote that person.

That's BS, but only because I just heard what spaghetti strategy is. No matter, I stand by my decision.

I'm sorry, but this:

FOS Shanba

Did you NK Sir T to put the extra heat on me you couldn't achieve during day 1?

is a ridiculous question. It uses WIFOM about nightkills, makes an assumption about alignments and is completely useless. Not to mention, I only attacked you once yesterday, and with the way you're playing, it would be completely unnecessary. To hell with this.

Vote: Sammich

Poorly drawn OMGUS? I don't think so, but:
Mafia is basically a game about assumptions. You don't know who scum is, and you have to assume someone is scum by their actions and the process of elimination, etc. etc. etc.
It doesn't matter if you attacked me once or a thousand times. I'm not going to put off my vote or try to get defensive. I still think you're scum and if I get lynched for my suspicions or the way I play, FOS's or not, then so be it.

[Per]

Sammich's multiple fossing raised my eyebrows too. Sammich, it's true that throwing FoS'es around like this is something scum like to do because they can hop on almost any bandwagon saying they were suspicious all the time.

However, multiple fossing isn't a lynchable tell at all, imo.

[Shanba]

I'm sorry, but this:

FOS Shanba

Did you NK Sir T to put the extra heat on me you couldn't achieve during day 1?

is a ridiculous question. It uses WIFOM about nightkills, makes an assumption about alignments and is completely useless. Not to mention, I only attacked you once yesterday, and with the way you're playing, it would be completely unnecessary. To hell with this.

Vote: Sammich

Poorly drawn OMGUS? I don't think so, but:
Mafia is basically a game about assumptions. You don't know who scum is, and you have to assume someone is scum by their actions and the process of elimination, etc. etc. etc.
It doesn't matter if you attacked me once or a thousand times. I'm not going to put off my vote or try to get defensive. I still think you're scum and if I get lynched for my suspicions or the way I play, FOS's or not, then so be it.

Way to completely miss my point

[Sammich]

Way to completely miss my point

All you had to do was answer a simple "yes" or "no" question.

[Shanba]

Way to completely miss my point

All you had to do was answer a simple "yes" or "no" question.

If you were trying to misunderstand me you couldn't be doing a batter job

[Sammich]

If you were trying to misunderstand me you couldn't be doing a batter job

Too bad I'm not.

[Samruc]

A loaded question is one that generally contains unverified assumptions, logical errors, or

excludes "reasonable" answers by virtue of the way it is phrased.

"When did you stop beating your wife?" is a classic example; no matter if the answer is "I didn't..." or "I never...", it implies that they either continue to beat their wife currently, or they have at some time in the past. A clever answer will instead point out the implicity assumptions carried in the question as stated.

This is exactly the same thing: "Did you NK Sir T to put the extra heat on me you couldn't achieve during day 1?" If he says no, it just means he NK'ed for another reason, thus it's *not* a simple yes or no-question.

[Lemming1607]

Any argument based on what scum do is WIFOM honestly, because then you have people like Sammich who come out and accuse people.

What if Sammich is scum, killed SirT so he could make it look like suspicion would be put on him, so he could accuse people for that?

It can be played both ways, and is still WIFOM

[Sammich]

What if Sammich is scum, killed SirT so he could make it look like suspicion would be put on him, so he could accuse people for that?

But why would I kill SirT? He was one players least suspicious of me.