Mini 508- Trouble in New Catania-Game Over

[rite]

People, it's okay to vote for someone (even if it's me). These FOSes look stupid and suspicious as hell.

As for the claus thing, I didn't like the way he was attacked for "starting a bandwagon". This seems like a too-convenient reason to attack someone, when in fact I dont' find putting *gasp* a 2nd or 3rd vote on someone all that meaningful.

(cont'd)

.... while, yes, I am aware that he

could

in fact be scum.

In my eyes, Lowell has been acting more and more scummy. "My, that was a good suggestion. I'm going to support it, so people think I'm smart." And, even more scummily, "Guys, I think you should be easier on claus. But guys, I'm not protecting him, seriously, he could be scum! If he's guilty, I'm going to hide behind this poor excuse of a defense!"

[someone2]

His "best" moment is when he answers LML, saying that he FoSes, wait for answer, and vote if he doesn't like the answer. And in the same message votes for LML anyway. His reason "thinking about lynching?" is stupid - lynching is the town's only weapon.

It's sure that I FOS people before voting them to let them time to answer my questions, but I had no questions to ask LML,and I found what he did was much more scummy than Lowell. He started a bandwagon on me because I FOSed someone instead of voting for him, it makes no sense and it is scummy. That's why I voted for him, and that has no link with OMGUS stuff. And when I said: already thinking about lynching? it was because I found stupid that the accusations on me deserved a lynch.

Streeflo, you voted for me for a thing i've explained three posts above. Vote for me for my explaination, not for something I've already explained.

As for the Someone2 case I would rather wait to hear from him first before I jump into the same conclusion of him being scum. But I dont get why he isnt defending himself when he is close to a lynch?

First, I just have three votes and second, I posted yesterday evening and I can only post during evenings because I can't play computer games at school, so please let me the time to post before saying that I do not defend myself.

[Happiest Sadist]

I believe that someone2 might be a better lynch candidate for today

You're already talking about lynching? I think you push too far there
]

Why else are we voting and talking? It is almost certain we will lynch someone today. We might get lucky and hit scum. Even if we miss, the only way to get scum to reveal themselves is to have discussions with death at stake. Otherwise they nightkill someone and we are in the same situation tomorrow with one less pro-town player.

Also, I do note that

someone2

did not explicitly use a logical fallacy. He raised suspicions. However he did not put forward an argument to prove

Lowell

is scum. Then

LML

claimed he was putting forward such an argument. Although playing aggressively is not scummy, distorting other player's posts is. The scum should reveal themselves in their own posts, not straw men thrown up by others. Because of this,

FOS:LML

.

Lowell

has been acting incredibly suspicious. He votes for someone whose name he doesn't even take the 10 seconds to look up the spelling of for unspecified suspicious behavior. Then when questioned he flat out accuses another person of being scum without reason. Then in his next post, rather than explaining either of his votes he says other people are attacking Claus for inadequate reasons. I can hardly imagine reasons less adequate than

Lowell

uses himself.

Vote: Lowell

[Streeflo]

Unvote;

Might have been too hasty there. I still agree with your flawed logic, but I see you did not really make a case and only planted a FoS. I thought it was a vote until a reread.

[BrianMcQueso]

- BMQ makes a good reasoning for voting me and for FoSing Lowell, his FoS of lowell seems to contain a claus-scum element. Then he says that he is fine for lynching either Someone2 or Lowell today, forgetting about me (while keeping the vote). Don't like this much - seems to be following the flow.

You're absolutely right. That sentence was supposed to read "Because we're lynching Claus today". We're not lynching someone2 at the moment. That's an oops from me, and I deserve a dunce cap for it.

[kuribo]

I'd be willing to lean toward Lowell being scum more than someone2.

I don't like BrianMcQ's assumption that the town will follow his lead, (ie, "we're" lynching Claus). Especially when it's clear that we have several different options at the moment.

BMQ may just be playing super-aggressive, or he may be bandwagoning townies. I'd lean towards the first option rather than the second right now. If he's a bandwagoning scum, he's a consistant one.

Claus, on the other hand, has OMGUS'd, he's flip flopped and he's tried to divert the suspicion from him onto other people rather than explain his posts.

I don't like that I accused Lowell of being Claus' scumbuddy and he replied with sarcasm. He's had ample chance to defend himself and hasn't. He lurked for the first few pages, he tried to deflect genuine questions, he random voted against Streeflo for "inside jokes," in what looked more random than anything--- well after we were past the random phase. Then, he tried to bandwagon Streelo without any reason or hesitation. In my mind, both Claus and Lowell are scummy, but the clear option is to lynch Lowell. While Claus may be scum, he could also be a noobish town. If Lowell, on the other hand, is town, he's not a very good townie. We should string Lowell up today and see what happens tonight.

Unvote

Vote: Lowell

[Rishi]

Fonz

- Can we get a vote count please?

[The Fonz]

Votecount 3 is brought to you by Porcelli's- makers of giant foam Fingers of Suspicion since 2001:

Lowell 3 (rite, Happiest Sadist, kuribo)
LoudMouthLee 2 (Rishi,Someone2)
Someone2 2 (LoudMouthLee, Claus)
rite 1 (Beastly)
Claus 1 (BrianMcQueso)
Streeflo 1 (Lowell)

Not voting: death_omen, Streeflo

[BrianMcQueso]

don't like BrianMcQ's assumption that the town will follow his lead, (ie, "we're" lynching Claus). Especially when it's clear that we have several different options at the moment.

You're reading a bit much into that "we", aren't you?

Lowell has been acting incredibly suspicious. He votes for someone whose name he doesn't even take the 10 seconds to look up the spelling of for unspecified suspicious behavior.

Poor spelling is not a scum tell, or else we could lynch half of MafiaScum.* I agree with some of the other points you're raising, but this seems like you're reaching.

*I'd be up for this, by the way.

[Claus]

Claus, on the other hand, has OMGUS'd, he's flip flopped and he's tried to divert the suspicion from him onto other people rather than explain his posts.

Where am I trying to divert the attention from me? I think that I pointed my FOS at BMQ exactly because he flippantly forgot his suspicion of me when the town started to look at someone2 and Lowell.

Too bad that you don't like flip flopping. I don't find changing one's mind scummy, if they have reasons for it. In fact, NOT changing your vote when you think someone else has become more suspicious is a scumtell for me.

Also, what posts do you think need explaining? Someone2 commented that my "humiliating" (what?) LML was scummy, and I answered that. Do you have any particular questions, or are you just trying to conjure up accusations out of nothing?

Now, regarding your posts, you have twice now snapped at BMQ's "we are lynching" attitude, but casually brushed off that as "aggressive town". To me, it seems he is just cheering whichever the current bandwagon is without committing himself to it, or trying rationalize his "let's lynch X". Is that aggressive town?

[Happiest Sadist]

I know bad spelling isn't a scum tell on its own. Its the fact that he acknowledged that he didn't care about spelling. He also didn't care about explaining his votes either.

[kuribo]

You're reading a bit much into that "we", aren't you?

Such is the nature of this beast, at times.

Where am I trying to divert the attention from me? I think that I pointed my FOS at BMQ exactly because he flippantly forgot his suspicion of me when the town started to look at someone2 and Lowell.

Now, regarding your posts, you have twice now snapped at BMQ's "we are lynching" attitude, but casually brushed off that as "aggressive town".

Indeed, you did point an FOS at BMQ, but your vote rests on someone2. You're doing precisely what you're acusing BMQ of--- Forgetting suspicion of someone else when the town starts pointing in another direction.

I don't have any questions for you at the moment, nor am I trying to conjure something out of nothing--- I've already stated the possibility that your scummy behavior may not be so scummy.

My vote rests on Lowell because I believe him to be scum. When you accuse me of trying to conjure something out of nothing--- when the entire town has accused you of being scum--- it seems like you're (again) trying to deflect suspicion onto someone else.

As for Lowell, his vote against me and the misspelling was not what I saw as scummy, more along the lines of the fact that he couldn't give a good reason for a random vote outside of the random phase. Not only that, but when pressed for answers, he still had nothing. He's either scum, or a very poor townie.

[BrianMcQueso]

I think that I pointed my FOS at BMQ exactly because he flippantly forgot his suspicion of me when the town started to look at someone2 and Lowell.

I don't know how many times I'm going to have to apologize for that, since apparently it's very fun to keep bringing it up.

I'm not satisfied with Lowell's responses. While there is some scummy behavior thus far, Lowell continues to disappoint.

unvote: Claus
vote: Lowell

[someone2]

Won't be able to post until Monday, going out on little vacation for Thanksgiving day

[Claus]

I think that I pointed my FOS at BMQ exactly because he flippantly forgot his suspicion of me when the town started to look at someone2 and Lowell.

I don't know how many times I'm going to have to apologize for that, since apparently it's very fun to keep bringing it up.

Are you saying that it was REALLY a mistake? I thought your first "mistake" post was sarcastic.

[Claus]

Indeed, you did point an FOS at BMQ, but your vote rests on someone2. You're doing precisely what you're acusing BMQ of--- Forgetting suspicion of someone else when the town starts pointing in another direction.

Forgetting? I voted Someone2 and FOSed on BMQ on THE SAME POST. Talk about misrepresenting someone.

You said I was not explaining and deflecting - I answered that you didn't ask me anything - then you say that you don't have anything to ask me, but accuses me AGAIN of deflecting. wtf?

When I voted for Someone2 and FOSed BMQ, I actually made comments and questions about/to a number of other players and the game itself - where is the deflection? Did you even bother to read that post?

Really, it seems that you're trying to make me look scummy to others by just repeating those accusations over and over. Not Kosher.

As for Lowell, his vote against me and the misspelling was not what I saw as scummy, more along the lines of the fact that he couldn't give a good reason for a random vote outside of the random phase. Not only that, but when pressed for answers, he still had nothing. He's either scum, or a very poor townie.

I don't think his vote was random. In my read, he accused Streeflo of trying to "buddy up" with others - maybe a bad reason to vote, but certainly not random. I actually think that his FOS on you is much more scummy than his vote on Streeflo. "one of his posts looked off" is similar to what you're doing to me here

For me it seems he is a Lurkish player. Some said that his answers were bad, but he actually didn't give any answers at all. When he decides to answer, we can see if his answers are scummy or not.

His posts 4 and 5 are more noteworthy. Defending someone while at the same time saying that person is scum is of course fence-sitting. But he is right that there are people around here who seem to be pussyfooting with their votes.

------

That said, I kinda liked someone2 answer to my accusation. It made me think it is time to re-read each player, specially those flying under the radar, and make a scum list before voting again next post.

unvote.
unfos.

Until I take the time to read each player.

[Lowell]

When someone gives me a good reason that I'm scummy, I'll respond.

I'll give you the quick teaser of what to expect:

1) The attacks on claus are retarded. MORE retarded, however, are the attacks on Scumteam Claus&Lowell. Nothing ruins D1 conversations more than people chiming in about how they found not one, but TWO, scum, based on whatever.

2) Streeflo is still scum. And I think kuribo is too. I've found not one, but TWO, scum. Don't thank me, send money.

[death_omen]

When someone gives me a good reason that I'm scummy, I'll respond.

I'll give you the quick teaser of what to expect:

1) The attacks on claus are retarded. MORE retarded, however, are the attacks on Scumteam Claus&Lowell. Nothing ruins D1 conversations more than people chiming in about how they found not one, but TWO, scum, based on whatever.

2) Streeflo is still scum. And I think kuribo is too. I've found not one, but TWO, scum. Don't thank me, send money.

I would actually agree with you if you actually posted more reason against them then

"I think"

, but your post looked from another angle also strikes me as a bit of a scum tell with just a name list and no reasons.

If you can actually answer why Streeflo and Kuribo are scum in your view people would actually consider your views but atm it just looks like a distant statement with close to no meaning behind it.

So atm Im thinking you maybe scum Lowell. Also atm

FOS:Beastly

he promised a post that is 3 days overdue.

HoS:Lowell

[Beastly]

Okay my thoughts so far - note whilst previewing I see my inactivity has been pounced upon do apologise all.



Page 1 -

Random votes Ahoy.
I vote Lowell. Rishi votes LML. HS votes rite. rite votes BMQ. Kuribo votes DO. LML votes rite (1st - double vote on someone). Lowell votes me. DO votes rite - (3rd vote on the wagon). Someone votes rishi. Claus ignores the whole thing. Streeflo votes Claus (inevitable vote that). rite unvotes, omgus votes LML - ignores the third vote.

That's pretty much all of that and mainly irrelevant. This strikes me as slightly odd . . . I didn't see much of a dynamic not from Claus anyhow.

They dynamic between Streeflo and Claus is very interesting. I'll keep an eye on the both of them.

Some gumph about paranoid cops. Man that role must suck looking at the Mikeburfire flash thingy.

I don't really agree with LML in 22 either seems like he's looking to throw shit at anyone and everyone. Yaus Claus in 23 does exactly what it say's on the tin.

Rite sticks up for LML here and I don't agree with him making cases out of thin air is what scum do, town acutally look for real cases on the whole

making cases out of thin air are what day start day one is all about, no reason to punish it.

Page 2 -

Rishi keeps vote on LML, citing the case out of "thin air".

Isn't it too early to be looking for pairings and the like?

Hypocritical is wrong.. more like pointing out possible pairings.

I do like LML attacking Claus in 30, definately aggressive that's for sure.

I do not however like this vote one bit, I don't think Claus has been pushing a wagon anymore than anyone else.

Claus, why are you trying to form a bandwagon on such shaky ground?

Plus what's with the FOS, if you find him scummy vote man.

BMQ hops on the Claus wagon, seriously I don't think Claus has done anything overly scummy, however I don't like Kuribo or BMQ's vote more than say LML'S Aggressive behaviour.

And Someone2 sides with LML and joins the attack Clauswagon. Death Omen appears and adds no content ditto rite and Happiest Sadist. Streeflo sticks up for Claus.

Looks like Someone2 is backtracking

Sorry, in post 35, I tried to say that your behavior seemed very scummy but it wasn't because you wanted to get the game going. After that I said that the thing that was scummy you did was to not explain yourself in post 33 but just kind of humiliate LML...

Deadline already wowzers.



Page 3 -


This guy seems to be completely unhelpful

I got a prod. I'm here.

Tell me when something interesting happens.

However I do agree with his next post and suspicion of Kuribo. Little bit of tit for tat between Lowell and Kuribo. Lowell keeps pointing out Streeflo is scum for some jokes by the look of things.

BMQ sticks up for Kuribo pulls Lowell up for not answering the original question. Rite votes Lowell. Someone2 throws an FOS at Lowell.
LML makes sense in 59, votes Someone2 who to me looks like he wants to join the wagon but not appear scummy for being on it.
Someone2 then votes LML which strikes me more as OMGUS than anything else, I don't think LML said he expected a speed wagon and a quick lynch.

Streeflo votes Someone2, BMQ expresses an eagerness to lynch Someone2 yet is voting Lowell, casting yourself over two islands eh.

I like 66 from Claus gives me a very pro-town feel.
Kuribo points out BMQ's eagerness to lynch Someone2

Happiest Sadist appears adds no content other than blabbering on about the dynamic between LML and Claus.

Good point

@ Claus: The 4 FOSes against Lowell in a row was what I was reffering to why did everyone choose to FOS him instead of actually going for him over someone2 if they were so sure he was scum?

Page 4 -


Much better next post from Happy Sadist.

Ah BMQ corrects his earlier post no wonder I found it odd.

This may be interesting - information wise and later on.

I'd be willing to lean toward Lowell being scum more than someone2.

This also seems awfully blase, especially considering he goes after BMQ for a similar thing.

We should string Lowell up today and see what happens tonight.

Lowell still thinks he's found two scum, meh I dunno.

Overall I'm not sure where I stand yet, I'll read in isolation. I do however find Death Omen's and Rite's lack of input nearly as lame as my own.

unvote

- Now to look at everyone in isolation.

[LoudmouthLee]

Lowell's post of "I just gave you two scum" could be a bussing technique that I have used before. Have a list of two, bus the mafia partner first (Streeflo) and then lead the town to a mislynch (Kuribo).

THis type of play happens entirely too often. I see it non-stop.

Unvote, Someone2. Vote, Lowell

[Streeflo]

Lowell's post of "I just gave you two scum" could be a bussing technique that I have used before. Have a list of two, bus the mafia partner first (Streeflo) and then lead the town to a mislynch (Kuribo).

Stop assuming I am scum.

[kuribo]

The reason I FOS'd Claus was to point out that, yes, I was suspicious of him at the time, but I've also allowed that he could be an inexperienced townie.

The reason I lean toward Lowell being scum is because several people, including myself, have had legitimate questions for him, which he has either been unwilling or unable to answer. Not even with a BS unsatisfactory answer. Accusations that go his way are met with "No, I'm not scum, but someone else is."

He also says that claiming to have found two scum on D1 "ruins" the conversation, but goes on in the SAME post to claim exactly that.

To say that no one has given reasons that we find you scummy is false--- I, and several others, have stated their reasons. You have not "responded," as you say, you have been evasive and unhelpful. You haven't even given your reasoning for thinking that the attacks on Claus are "retarded."

[Rishi]

Ack. I hate to make another post that doesn't say anything, but I have nothing to say. I seriously doubt that anyone has found, beyond a doubt, who the scum are.

I agree with kuribo though that Lowell is being uncooperative, and there is no reason for a protown player to act like that. But, on the other hand, he hasn't said THAT much, so it's hard to really get a read on him.

LML seems a little more pro-town lately. I see no reason to keep my vote there, but I'm not fully convinced of Lowell's guilt. So,

Unvote

for now. No new vote just yet.

Fonz

- Are we still deadlined?

[Happiest Sadist]

Lowell's post of "I just gave you two scum" could be a bussing technique that I have used before. Have a list of two, bus the mafia partner first (Streeflo) and then lead the town to a mislynch (Kuribo).

THis type of play happens entirely too often. I see it non-stop.

Unvote, Someone2. Vote, Lowell

If it is, this is a supremely bad time to use it. It seems that that bussing technique (and most others) rests on the scum you are giving up being much more suspicious than you. Since Lowell is much more suspicious than either of them it doesn't really help. Also, this early in the game a myslynch & a scum lynch packaged doesn't really help the town.

However, is it possible that Lowell is self-bussing? He is suspected of being scum and can't see a good defense so he launches baseless accusations against his scum buddy (or both if there are three scum in this game.) Lowell gets lynched for bad play and the town assumes that he wasn't naming his partners. Thus suspicion is diverted from the surviving scum.

[Happiest Sadist]

EBWOP. Lynching a scum and a pro-town player doesn't really hurt the town.