Open 42 - Friends and Enemies - (Game Over) before 495

[Simenon]

Mod Edit: Vote Count

ChaosOmega[1](Shanba)


Not Voting[6](Simenon, Phate, Samruc, Lemming1607, ChaosOmega, Per)

That said, I think you made the right decision, but we also could have gotten a scum lynch and naturally concluded that CO had to be the scum.

[Phate]

I've been pushing CO's case since I replaced in, and nothing he has done so far has made me anything but more sure of his scummitude.

Vote: ChaosOmega

[Simenon]

hoo boy

[Shanba]

Unvote

Sim, what are you getting at?

[Guardian]

Everyone who has not posted on this page has been prodded. Some have not posted in over 10 days, if people don't post by this weekend I'll begin seeking replacement.

Edit: The Fonz replaces Lemming1607 (who requested replacement) effective immediately.

[The Fonz]

Hi guys. Before I begin, can anyone point me to that vote analyser program that was in mafia discussion a while back? Could be v. useful in this situation. Am currently halfway thru re-read.

[Phate]

unvote

I want to hear what the new kid has to say.

[Simenon]

Hi guys. Before I begin, can anyone point me to that vote analyser program that was in mafia discussion a while back? Could be v. useful in this situation. Am currently halfway thru re-read.

TL;DR

we lynch you.

[Simenon]

Of course I was teasing, but I'm basically going to skip what you have to say until it matters- your analysis will not sway my opinion.

Also, phate, you pretty much depleted any possible information we could have from these last few posts all for the sake of being safe when it really wasn't necessary (considering I'm town and Shanba immediately backed down).

Shanba: I just think analysis like the one you made should be mostly kept to yourself- it could lead to scum jumping on to it. Mostly I just wanted to rub blue jam in. :shrug:

[Phate]

What is TL;DR?

I don't understand how I depleted any information. By voting? By unvoting?

[Phate]

Oh. Just figured it out. Too long, didn't read. I've heard someone say that.

[Samruc]

I'm still here. I don't know how to deal with Shanba's post, but I guess I'll just have to eat it. It's interesting that he pairs me up with the guys I would have paired himself with (Lemming, CO)...

Let me try Shanba, Lemming, CO:

Page 5 Vote Count:
YogurtBandit[4](Simenon, Samruc,

Lemming1607

, Sir Tornado)

Lemming1607

[2](Khelvaster,

Shanba

)
Jex[1](Per)
Crub[1](Jex)
Khelvaster[1](

EmpTyger

)

Page 8 Vote Count:
Crub[4](Jex,

ChaosOmega

, Simenon, Sammich)
Simenon[2](Crub,

Lemming1607

)
Sir Tornado[1](

Shanba

)

Lemming1607

[1](Per)

Page 10 Vote Count:
Crub[2](Jex, Simenon)
Simenon[2](Crub,

Lemming1607

)
Sammich2](Samruc,

Shanba

)

Lemming1607

[1](Per)
Samruc[1](

ChaosOmega

)

Shanba

[1](Sammich)

// The pattern for the first three VC's seems to be a lack of pattern - but suddenly something happens. End of D1 looks really convincing.

End of d1:
Crub[6](Jex, Simenon,

Shanba

, Per,

Lemming1607

,

ChaosOmega

)
Sammich[2](Samruc, Crub)

***
Page 14 Vote Count:
Sammich[2](Samruc,

Shanba

)
Phate[2](

ChaosOmega

, Simenon)

Shanba

[1](Sammich)

Lemming1607

[1](Jex)

Page 16:
Sammich[3](

Shanba

, Simenon,

Lemming1607

)
Phate[1](

ChaosOmega

)
Lemming1607[1](Sammich)

// Once again, there is a lack of cooperation among the red-colored names, until end of day occurs, where we got two reds on the lynch again.

End of d2:
Sammich[5](

Shanba

, Simenon,

Lemming1607

, Sammich, Phate)
Phate[1](

ChaosOmega

)

***
Not sure if I'm convinced by those patterns, and the fact that Shanba himself wants to pair CO and Lemming as scum seems to be too much bussing for this to be true... On the other hand, "End of D1"-VC is very good. My suspicions for CO and Lemming remain, still not sure who to pair them with. I'll try to take a look at other possibilities tomorrow.

[Shanba]

I see Sim. So really, you're just winding me up.

Vote: CO

then.

[Phate]

Samruc - lame. The fact that Shanba was third out of 6 on the Crubwagon doesn't really lend any support to the theory that he's scum. Nor does the fact that he was first on the Samwagon. If anything, your analysis has confirmed his towniness.

Shanba - I still want to hear what the new kid has to say, even if I don't think there's anything he can do to change my views.

Fonz - I realise there's a HUGE amount of material to go through, but I'm waiting for you to finish and post your thoughts.

[Simenon]

By unvoting

By unvoting we slowed this game down for two weeks, while there really was no reason to (shanba unvoted- and you shouldn't have voted until you were reasonably sure that CO was scum).

[Simenon]

FOR NEATNESS HE DESERVED A NOD.

DID SWEENEY TODD.

THE DEMON BARBER OF FLEET STREET.

[The Fonz]

OK guys, here's the deal: I'm actually seeing a Phate/Co scumpair here. I think it's pretty damn likely CO is scum, more based on EmpTyger than on CO himself, though there's no little scumminess there- when I first joined, I read tons of games, and ET was in many of them- I can't recall him ever playing like that as town.

As for Phate, I don't buy the whole 'no need to bus' argument. Replacing in and immediately putting a really big bus on one scumbuddy to 'clear' whichever of you doesn't die first is a pretty common scumtactic, imho, and definitely one I've used in the past. The setup here makes that even more likely- in open games without investigative roles, all the scum have to do is convince the town that one couldn't possibly be paired with another and the game's in the bag.

He claimed to have been 'pushing CO's case since he replaced in' and yet, up until today, a quick PBP reveals that Phate's vote sat on CO for all of one post prior to today. Instead, he went after Simenon, and then Sammich. There seems to be a distinct lack of actual case-pushing from someone who begins by referring to someone as S-C-U-M without a doubt.

Whether Samruc or Per is the third scummer I'm not sure. Phate treats both pretty similarly imho.

Vote: ChaosOmega

That was amazing, Shanba. Your analysis has won me over. I had already believed that CO and (lately) Lemming were a scumpair, but your reasoning has decided my tossup between Per and Samruc.

Oh, and this is about the most blatant piece of buddying up ever seen on MS.

[Phate]

Vote: ChaosOmega

for the hammer.

Fonz - try reading my posts, where I constantly, constantly finger CO. The only reason I haven't been voting him continuously is because the others wouldn't yet support his lynch. Now they will, and now I finally get to hammer him. Also, I don't treat Samruc or Per similarly. Objectively, I'm much more biased in favour of Per, because he makes great big relatively helpful analyses, which I like. I did go after Simenon, because I thought he was scum. Now that he's claimed mason and there's no counterclaim, and I'm hopefully momentarily finished with making newbie mistakes, I know he's not. I also went after Sammich, because I thought he was scum. Simenon was acting very secretive, which pissed me off and I read as a scumtell, and Sammich was refusing to defend himself AT ALL, which pissed me off and I still would call a scumtell.

But through it all, in I think every single reference to ChaosOmega, I pushed the case that CO was scum. His responses have only confirmed my suspicion.

Why is my "That was amazing, Shanba" more "blatant" "buddying up" than Simenon's "Why are you so awesome, Shanba?"

I think you're scum. And I think it's too late to change my mind, considering the posts of your predecessor. But you can try!

[Simenon]

I've got this odd feeling that Shanba/Phate just won.

Phate: you are not hammering.

[Phate]

Oh, you're right. Thought I was. I don't understand - do you think Shanba and I are a scumpair?

[Simenon]

Oh, you're right. Thought I was. I don't understand - do you think Shanba and I are a scumpair?

Not sure, but this last page gives me the willies.


I ought to be considered a babbling old man right now since nothing I do can really change the CO lynch.

[Samruc]

I've got this odd feeling that Shanba/Phate just won.

Phate: you are not hammering.

How did they win, if it's not yet a lynch?

[Simenon]

I've got this odd feeling that Shanba/Phate just won.

Phate: you are not hammering.

How did they win, if it's not yet a lynch?

Well, I mean in the sense that their scumbuddy is just waiting around to hammer off CO and CO is conveniently missing.

[The Fonz]

Vote: ChaosOmega

for the hammer.

Fonz - try reading my posts, where I constantly, constantly finger CO. The only reason I haven't been voting him continuously is because the others wouldn't yet support his lynch. Now they will, and now I finally get to hammer him. Also, I don't treat Samruc or Per similarly.

You've pretty much proven my point. You basically went out of your way to make it look like

you

found CO scummy, without really actively pushing his lynch. The others wouldn't support it? You didn't exactly go out of your way to press them into it, did you? If I'm town, convinced X is scum and no-one seems to be following me, I don't just go 'oh well,' and move on. I demand explanations for why people are unwilling to vote him.


I didn't suggest you treated Samruc and Per the same

as ChaosOmega

, i suggested I was basically unable to ascertain which of those two was likely scum because you treated them similarly

to each other,

which I defy you to deny.

Objectively, I'm much more biased in favour of Per, because he makes great big relatively helpful analyses, which I like. I did go after Simenon, because I thought he was scum. Now that he's claimed mason and there's no counterclaim, and I'm hopefully momentarily finished with making newbie mistakes, I know he's not. I also went after Sammich, because I thought he was scum. Simenon was acting very secretive, which pissed me off and I read as a scumtell, and Sammich was refusing to defend himself AT ALL, which pissed me off and I still would call a scumtell.

The fact remains, regardless of what you might claim to have believed at the time, whilst you were claiming to believe CO to be the scummiest player, you were directing your actual efforts at pushing the lynches of Sammich and Simenon, two pro-town players.

[Simenon]

I don't really buy that Phate could be scum if CO is scum.

Keep in mind that I know more than anyone else; I'm saying these things so that I can be later be interpreted in context, therefore I do not need to be convinced.