Newbie 476: Slow, slow, slow, then FAST and over. Damn.

[Korlash]

Ohhhh k...

>.>
<.<

You were on the bandwagon too... You should vote yourself

Now who is repeating themselves????

Seriously... I would vote Sir Torn too... Hmmm... But I have a nagging fear you are mafia trying to play me...

Lionden, who would be your top pick?

[MeMe]

Same ol'

Vote Count

:

Nothing to report...

Three to lynch.

[Korlash]

... Come on guys...

FoS: Somebody

...

[Sir Tornado]

Ok, I think I am up to date with the game now.

Yeah, I agree that I had been lurking... but it was a global phenomenon for me. If you don't believe this, check out the following games:

Newbie 501, Mini 510 (where Jmar is playing too), Mini 520, Mafia 67, Mafia 68, Mafia 72, Doctor Who Mafia 2, and Food Fight Mafia and Designer Mafia.

You will find that I was lurking in all those games while I was lurking here (academic issues), and I obviously can't be scum in all my games....

Jmar, I have one particular problem with your theory about me being scum because I was on last lynch. It doesn't actually apply. Stoofer's law is applicable only in the instances where a lynch takes place, instead of a deadline, and I am not scum really.

I tried the exact same hypothesis you are trying that right now in Newbie 417 where I was the cop. It ended in a disaster for the town.

[lionden_56]

Only problem with that is that a lynch did take place. Jmar dropped the hammer.
This may be reaching a little, but my thoughts right now a slightly leaning in Korlash's favor...because of the speed of the night actions and because of the fact that he

didn't

vote for Holy. Its a great defense to be able to say "I'm not scum because I wasn't on the bandwagon for her." and as scum he would have known she was town and knew that argument would have been legit.

I still don't like Sir Torn and Havok, though. I mean, I know all about getting busy with school stuff, but one post to say "hey, I'm still alive, just a little busy" would have sufficed. Now we have a deadline and not much time to figure out a lylo situation.

[Korlash]

Yeah... Unfortunately that is the biggest reason I hate deadlines... There is actually no incentive for scum to vote... However I do know for a fact at least one scum was on the wagon... because I am town... So... actually in my mind that makes Havok a bit more likely to be scum.. but I wont throw away the option both sum were on the wagon either...

[Sir Tornado]

I still don't like Sir Torn and Havok, though. I mean, I know all about getting busy with school stuff, but one post to say "hey, I'm still alive, just a little busy" would have sufficed. Now we have a deadline and not much time to figure out a lylo situation.

How would one post saying "Hey, I'm still alive, just a little busy" have sufficed? Does that actually contribute anything to the game? How is that better than not posting at all?

[jmar]

Yeah, I agree that I had been lurking... but it was a global phenomenon for me. If you don't believe this, check out the following games:

Newbie 501, Mini 510 (where Jmar is playing too), Mini 520, Mafia 67, Mafia 68, Mafia 72, Doctor Who Mafia 2, and Food Fight Mafia and Designer Mafia.

This is what has really kept me from voting you. If you had showed up in 510, I prolly would have voted you by now.

Jmar, I have one particular problem with your theory about me being scum because I was on last lynch. It doesn't actually apply. Stoofer's law is applicable only in the instances where a lynch takes place, instead of a deadline, and I am not scum really.

I tried the exact same hypothesis you are trying that right now in Newbie 417 where I was the cop. It ended in a disaster for the town.

Interesting point. It certainly did end badly for the town in that instance. This prompted me to reread the game. I got to thinking- the person most likely to be scum probably isn't the one on the bandwagon, but the one who is on the wagon, but jumps off when they found out Holy is going down. I got to thinking about this because Holy was really the only candidate for lynch. It probably wouldn't be very difficult at all for the scum to stay off the wagon by simply letting things happen.

My reread brought up something I find very interesting... neither Korlash nor havok voted for anybody on Day 1. Nobody, outside of the random phase. Korlash voted for nobody all day, then when pushed by mith, voted himself. Then he voted me after I hammered holy. MeMe made a mistake, her votecounts said havok was voting for me all day when he never actually did (unless I missed something?) She seemed to have corrected it in the votecount at the end. Havok pretty much seemed to focus on me all day, but never actually voted. Then he all but disappeared once Holy's lynch appeared inevitable. Although he posts a lot, Korlash hasn't contributed much of substance in the long run. He repeatedly stated he didn't find Holy all that scummy, but at the same time didn't really pick a side or attempt to prevent her lynch. And once the deadline was on, he practically flat out refused to make a move on anybody. The person pushing him to make a vote? Mith, who turned up dead.

This doesn't let Sir Torn off the hook in my opinion, but I found this pretty interesting. I'd be interested to hear some thoughts/defenses on this. I'm reevaluating my initial thought that one of the scum is probably on the wagon, because rereading, it wouldn't be that hard to stay off it given how focused we were toward Holy. She basically acted as a convenient distraction for the scum.

[Korlash]

Or it could be that the two scum were the turning points against holy... I didn't vote anyone because I barely saw any reason too...

No other explanations then that... ><

And yeah, I may not have "contributed much" as you said (Which is bull crap cause I know I have done a lot of good stuff) it more or less goes with what Lionden said:

"I know all about getting busy with school stuff, but one post to say "hey, I'm still alive, just a little busy" would have sufficed."

Would you rather I had just lurked all day?

Actually I would think Havok not voting people would be just because he was not here... Who knows...

[jmar]

No, I'd rather you have looked at everyone's posts an formulated an opinion/case against someone. I don't mean to say all your posts are worthless, but you mostly commented on what other people brought up rather than actively scum hunt.

I'd prefer to hear from havok himself on why he didn't vote. Your reason though (an interesting addendum btw, shouldn't he speak for himself?) doesnt make sense to me. He was there for the majority of the day, and he made enough posts accusing me of things that you'd think he'd have made a vote at some point. Other than responding to my posts and coming up with new ways to trap me, he had little else of substance.

[Korlash]

Ok, I feel we have all become at least semi-active enough that i can make a case.

First off... I have not done a complete reread here... Only like 5 pages... But I feel it is enough...

My top Suspect: Jmar..

His mist likely scumbuddy: Sir Torn

Maybe town but I can still see a few things I don't like about him: Lionden

Question mark- havok

That is mostly my scum list as of this moment. Now, on to the case...

seeing as how LYLO dictates we must lynch I need to get over my hatred of deadlines here... *prepares*

*hours later in theropy*

And then she votes me because of the deadline! I honestly believed her to be good too! Turns out she was scum! *cries*

*Hours later back home*

Now that I worked that out...

Vote: Jmar

Major FoS: Sir Torn

Reasons:

1) seeing as how Holy was actually lynched I am very inclined to believe both Scum are on the wagon. So I want to more or less only focus on you three (Especially until havok comes back...)

2) You were the hammer on Holy. Plain and simple I always think the hammer deserves to be looked at more then others.

2.5) You repeatedly went after Sir Torn yesterday, and even said Havok was your number one. Yet you clearly said you were willing to "Hammer Holy" and you did. If she was not your Number 1 then why hammer her?

3) You hammered her relatively quickly after Sir Torn placed his vote. I see this as you two trying to set up your defense of "We lynched her because of the deadline." And when you hammered her you said "The reasons I said before" and then gave an excuse as to why you did not post more. I cannot know if you were telling the truth or making up an excuse. Unfortunately if I were scum I would have hammered quickly and used an excuse to cover my reasonless vote too.

4) These quotes:

Logic says that the scum were probably on Holy's bandwagon. I realize this pretty much points to me. I'm town, and mith was obviously town. So that leaves me with Sir Torn and lionden. I don't find lionden too scummy, he's been very townish so far. Sir Torn has been lurking, but I guess that's his playstyle to an extent. He hasn't given me much to call him scummy besides being the last one to vote for mith. Like I said before, havok is still probably my top suspect, and Korlash I guess you're after that. But at lylo, I'd much rather go with the safer look at the people on the bandwagon. So I guess we should take a look at Sir Torn. I don't know, I have to reread.

That's exactly why I'm confused. If I was to go with my gut, I'd be voting for havok. But it's not a smart move at lylo because he wasn't on the wagon and I think at least one of the scum most likely was.

I've already said it, but basically because Sir Torn was on the bandwagon. It's the safer bet.

You keep saying you feel Sir Torn is a safe bet yet you do not Vote him... Kinda odd seeing as how yesterday you pretty much had your vote on him for most of the deadline (Unless I am mistaken)

To me... It seems like you are fence sitting, on one hand you are ready to bus your scum partner, on the other you want to be ready to hop on a Havok or myself Wagon should they happen.

Lastly:

...because you're not on the bandwagon. Since I am, that eliminates one of the people off of it...

This just stuck out at me... Because you were on the bandwagon, it eliminates one of the people off the wagon. I take this as a very bad scum slip up. You are more or less saying (I think) "Because I was on the bandwagon, one of the people off of it has to be town." And thus you are more or less saying you are mafia. I really hate basing my vote on something like this but i think it was just a bad scum slip up.

So there you have it... a "sort of" case against Jmar, with a "sort of" tie to Sir Torn as a scum partner...

Wait no I lied.. one other thing:

And once the deadline was on, he practically flat out refused to make a move on anybody. The person pushing him to make a vote? Mith, who turned up dead.

What, did you NK Mith so you could try and frame me today? I don't think it will work as any one of us (If scum) would have looked at Mith as the most obvious NK... Because you brought it up first, I am more inclined to believe you are scum trying to make your NK work in your favor by making me a scapegoat...

Ok so more then half of these are my personal feelings on the matter, but seeing as how we are in LYLO I have to go with my gut. And my gut says Jmar and Sir Torn...

I too am interested in hearing Havok's views.. and maybe a list from Lionden...

[jmar]

Reasons:

1) seeing as how Holy was actually lynched I am very inclined to believe both Scum are on the wagon. So I want to more or less only focus on you three (Especially until havok comes back...)

What makes you say both? The town was so single-minded yesterday, this is something I noticed after rereading. Really, there was no othercandidate for lynch. It'd be perfectly feasible for both scum to stay off the wagon. I bet you would like to focus on us three, because it takes the spotlight off you and havok, a mistake I have already made multiple times today...

Here's what I noticed from rereading... (with regards to my activities)

havok came out of nowhere with a "case" against me. This is before the Holy wagon started a-rolling. We argue back and forth for a bit. Things settle down.

havok attempts to "bait" me. We argue about this some more, but I kinda drop the issue as Holy starts looking scummier and scummier.

Korlash proposes a no lynch. This trips my scumdar bigtime, since it contradicts what he said before. We argue, but again, I drop the issue as Holy continues to look scummy.

So basically, everytime I thought I saw something with havok or Korlash, I inevitably started to look back at Holy. Her mistakes were too big to ignore, and I think I allowed havok and Korlash to slip through the cracks.

2) You were the hammer on Holy. Plain and simple I always think the hammer deserves to be looked at more then others.

I was indeed. Why do you think that though?

2.5) You repeatedly went after Sir Torn yesterday, and even said Havok was your number one. Yet you clearly said you were willing to "Hammer Holy" and you did. If she was not your Number 1 then why hammer her?

Excuse me.

*steps out of room*

*yells WTF*

*comes back in*

Ahem... when did I repeatedly go after Sir Torn? I mentioned multiple times I'd like to hear more from him, and I didn't like that he was lurking. I wouldn't say I repeatedly went after him, not in a major way. I'm not sure what this has to do with the rest of your point though.

As for why I hammered Holy, it's pretty simple. I harped on havok all day , about how I thought he was scummy, with little effect. People barely took a second look at her. At the same time, I found Holy's posts incredibly scummy. If you want to reread I posted this, with reasons, numerous times. Yeah, havok was my number one, but with a deadline approaching, I didn't see 4 people jumping over onto a havok wagon. I was comfortable with lynching Holy after what we saw from her, and I was pretty surprised when she came up town.

3) You hammered her relatively quickly after Sir Torn placed his vote. I see this as you two trying to set up your defense of "We lynched her because of the deadline." And when you hammered her you said "The reasons I said before" and then gave an excuse as to why you did not post more. I cannot know if you were telling the truth or making up an excuse. Unfortunately if I were scum I would have hammered quickly and used an excuse to cover my reasonless vote too.

I did. I wanted to get in before the deadline. But I didn't lynch her

because

of the deadline. I lynched her because I thought she was scum. I did have to run to class on that day, but I think it was pretty well established what I though of Holy. Again, you can reread if you don't believe me, I made plenty of posts outlining why I found her scummy. I mean, I said I would hammer her earlier in the day. If you had issue with it, why didn't you bring it up then?

4) These quotes:

Logic says that the scum were probably on Holy's bandwagon. I realize this pretty much points to me. I'm town, and mith was obviously town. So that leaves me with Sir Torn and lionden. I don't find lionden too scummy, he's been very townish so far. Sir Torn has been lurking, but I guess that's his playstyle to an extent. He hasn't given me much to call him scummy besides being the last one to vote for mith. Like I said before, havok is still probably my top suspect, and Korlash I guess you're after that. But at lylo, I'd much rather go with the safer look at the people on the bandwagon. So I guess we should take a look at Sir Torn. I don't know, I have to reread.

That's exactly why I'm confused. If I was to go with my gut, I'd be voting for havok. But it's not a smart move at lylo because he wasn't on the wagon and I think at least one of the scum most likely was.

I've already said it, but basically because Sir Torn was on the bandwagon. It's the safer bet.

You keep saying you feel Sir Torn is a safe bet yet you do not Vote him... Kinda odd seeing as how yesterday you pretty much had your vote on him for most of the deadline (Unless I am mistaken)

You are mistaken, or you're grasping at straws. For most of the deadline, I had my vote on havok. I started off by voting Sir Torn, yes, and I kept my vote on him, but I didn't have a reason for it. It was a fun OMGUS vote because he voted me, leftover from the random phase. But I believe I changed to havok before the deadline or shortly thereafter. I was gonna give him a little while longer to show up before I voted him, but I was also dissuaded by the fact that he hadn't shown up in our other game either.

To me... It seems like you are fence sitting, on one hand you are ready to bus your scum partner, on the other you want to be ready to hop on a Havok or myself Wagon should they happen.

How's this for fence sitting? I'll start the wagon. Looking over both days, I'm ready to

Vote: Korlash

Reasons:

1) His jokes seem like a defense mechanism. I've noted this since the beginning. (okay, not the strongest argument... they get better)

2) His unwillingness to vote... as outlined in my last post.

3) His lack of substance to his posts. Sure, he's made a ton, more than anybody here, but do they really do anything? Is he actively scum-hunting? No. He comments on what others say, or makes a joke.

4) Connection with havok, who I believe to be his scumbuddy: It looks like they're actively not trying to have one, they've just been kind of "meh" toward each other. Korlash barely responded to any of my posts about havok- neither have really made a judgment call either way to each other. Notice Korlash's assessment of havok in his last post- "question mark." He doesn't say anything either way, which is what he's an expert at. With havok's first post, Korlash calls him "smart." havok appears to want to create the impression of not being partners by insulting Korlash's puns.

5) His reaction right here. It took someone shining the light on him to make his first post of real substance (I'd venture to say it's definitely his longest of the day, I could be wrong). If I've been his top suspect all along, why no vote? (The one after I hammered Holy doesn't count). His playstyle does almost a complete 180 here- he's no longer the nice guy who makes jokes- the claws have come out.

Lastly:

...because you're not on the bandwagon. Since I am, that eliminates one of the people off of it...

This just stuck out at me... Because you were on the bandwagon, it eliminates one of the people off the wagon. I take this as a very bad scum slip up. You are more or less saying (I think) "Because I was on the bandwagon, one of the people off of it has to be town." And thus you are more or less saying you are mafia. I really hate basing my vote on something like this but i think it was just a bad scum slip up.

Wait... what? I was saying because I know I'm town, that makes it less likely for both scum to be on the bandwagon, from my point of view, especially since I don't get a scummy vibe from lionden. How is that a slip up, or how does that mean I'm saying I'm mafia? From your point of view, sure- you see 3 suspects on the bandwagon, so of course you're gonna say it's more likely both are on. From mine, I only see two.

So there you have it... a "sort of" case against Jmar, with a "sort of" tie to Sir Torn as a scum partner...

Wait no I lied.. one other thing:

And once the deadline was on, he practically flat out refused to make a move on anybody. The person pushing him to make a vote? Mith, who turned up dead.

What, did you NK Mith so you could try and frame me today? I don't think it will work as any one of us (If scum) would have looked at Mith as the most obvious NK... Because you brought it up first, I am more inclined to believe you are scum trying to make your NK work in your favor by making me a scapegoat...

Ok so more then half of these are my personal feelings on the matter, but seeing as how we are in LYLO I have to go with my gut. And my gut says Jmar and Sir Torn...

I too am interested in hearing Havok's views.. and maybe a list from Lionden...

Here we get into WIFOM territory again. Because I did bring up "Mith as a resource to the town" and all that, couldn't I just as easily say you killed him to set me up, but I took the wind out of your sails by bringing it up first? That's circular logic. I'm just saying that the person who was pushing for you to make a vote and take a stance is the one who ended up with a bullet in his head. At the same time, I don't think his pushing you to make a vote was so obvious as to dissuade you from pulling the trigger.

[Korlash]

What makes you say both? The town was so single-minded yesterday, this is something I noticed after rereading. Really, there was no othercandidate for lynch. It'd be perfectly feasible for both scum to stay off the wagon. I bet you would like to focus on us three, because it takes the spotlight off you and havok, a mistake I have already made multiple times today...

Actually seeing as how we actually lynched holy and not just deadline killed her I find it highly more likely both the scum were in on it. From my (Little) experience I have yet to see an actual lynch that did not involve both scum. BUT as I said this is from a very very tiny amount of games. I think it more likely that both scum would want to make sure Holy had died yesterday instead of just hoping she would die at deadline. Thus, my reasoning for that.

I was indeed. Why do you think that though?

I always find the person that hammers a towny deserves a small bit of suspicion thrown on him. It's my own beliefs, not everyone may agree with me here...

Ahem... when did I repeatedly go after Sir Torn? I mentioned multiple times I'd like to hear more from him, and I didn't like that he was lurking. I wouldn't say I repeatedly went after him, not in a major way. I'm not sure what this has to do with the rest of your point though.

your right that was totally my misunderstanding there. I was remember earlier today instead of yesterday when I wrote that. My mistake there...

I did. I wanted to get in before the deadline. But I didn't lynch her because of the deadline. I lynched her because I thought she was scum. I did have to run to class on that day, but I think it was pretty well established what I though of Holy. Again, you can reread if you don't believe me, I made plenty of posts outlining why I found her scummy. I mean, I said I would hammer her earlier in the day. If you had issue with it, why didn't you bring it up then?

And I can totally believe this. I too have made quick posts before because I had to be somewhere and I only wanted to get my stuff in there before I left. However, seeing as how I was bringing a case against you I had to look at things in ways they COULD be scummy.

As for the case against Holy I believe I more or less spelled out how much i felt it was BS yesterday... So whether or not you "had your reasons" I disagreed with them. So... I am more inclined to believe you just lynched her to end the day with a town death. Sorry...

You are mistaken, or you're grasping at straws. For most of the deadline, I had my vote on havok. I started off by voting Sir Torn, yes, and I kept my vote on him, but I didn't have a reason for it. It was a fun OMGUS vote because he voted me, leftover from the random phase. But I believe I changed to havok before the deadline or shortly thereafter. I was gonna give him a little while longer to show up before I voted him, but I was also dissuaded by the fact that he hadn't shown up in our other game either.

Yeah again sorry for that. I knew that you had voted Havok all deadline but when I wrote this my mind told me you had voted Sir Torn... No idea how that happened...

1) His jokes seem like a defense mechanism.

Always worried that is how they came off... They really aren't though. In my own crazy way, my jokes are how I scum hunt... I know, weird...

2) His unwillingness to vote... as outlined in my last post.

I did not feel anyone had enough to qualify for a lynch. And come deadline, every vote could in fact be a part of a lynch (Deadline kill)... So I did not vote to prevent any seconds before deadline hopping...

3) His lack of substance to his posts. Sure, he's made a ton, more than anybody here, but do they really do anything? Is he actively scum-hunting? No. He comments on what others say, or makes a joke.

I personally feel commenting on what others say to be a very good scum hunting tool. Either I strengthen what you say and thus help hunt whoever you are talking to/about, or I weaken your case and thus am hunting you. I may not have any original ideas (often) but that doesn't mean I am not playing this game.

4) Connection with havok, who I believe to be his scumbuddy: It looks like they're actively not trying to have one, they've just been kind of "meh" toward each other. Korlash barely responded to any of my posts about havok- neither have really made a judgment call either way to each other. Notice Korlash's assessment of havok in his last post- "question mark." He doesn't say anything either way, which is what he's an expert at. With havok's first post, Korlash calls him "smart." havok appears to want to create the impression of not being partners by insulting Korlash's puns.

this is a good point. My defense: I havn't really seen enough of him lately to qualify any feelings toward him at all.

My question to Lionden: Do you think this strengthens a havok/jmar partnership? Or would it strengthen a Sir Torn/ Jmar partnership? Just your feelings on the matter would be nice...

5) His reaction right here. It took someone shining the light on him to make his first post of real substance (I'd venture to say it's definitely his longest of the day, I could be wrong). If I've been his top suspect all along, why no vote? (The one after I hammered Holy doesn't count). His playstyle does almost a complete 180 here- he's no longer the nice guy who makes jokes- the claws have come out.

That is a nice metaphor... Rowr! I do have a reason for my jokes, my lack of content, and even yes my unwillingness to vote yesterday. And for good reason too. After last night I believe it paid off. If I can figure out your partner we have this game won...

Also... Post 188:

OMG... If I had contradicted myself I would totally not Vote: Jmar right now.

a) I did vote you, and B) this plainly destroys that "Korlash did not vote anyone yesterday!" thing you said earlier... So yeah, i did vote you before. And I waited a bit to vote you today in hopes people woudl get more active and I wouldn;t have to press this so fast.

Wait... what? I was saying because I know I'm town, that makes it less likely for both scum to be on the bandwagon, from my point of view, especially since I don't get a scummy vibe from lionden. How is that a slip up, or how does that mean I'm saying I'm mafia? From your point of view, sure- you see 3 suspects on the bandwagon, so of course you're gonna say it's more likely both are on. From mine, I only see two.

Yeah what you said could be taken either way. Could be a bad misunderstanding/bad way of wording things, or a very very lucky scum slip up. Either way this is more or less what your case on holy was based on yesterday so I do appreciate the irony of me using it! =D

Here we get into WIFOM territory again. Because I did bring up "Mith as a resource to the town" and all that, couldn't I just as easily say you killed him to set me up, but I took the wind out of your sails by bringing it up first? That's circular logic. I'm just saying that the person who was pushing for you to make a vote and take a stance is the one who ended up with a bullet in his head. At the same time, I don't think his pushing you to make a vote was so obvious as to dissuade you from pulling the trigger.

Personally? If I were scum I woulda killed off Lionden... No connection to me at all, obviously not the best doc choice, and even slight odds he turns out to be Doc. I woulda been against a Mith lynch as it woudl either be too obvious doc protection, or he woudl make a good scapegoat. I was really surprised he was the choice.. Makes me think Sir Torn is not the other mafia as, begin an IC, he would have probably known this. But I will not rule him out just yet...

Anyways... I would like to know exactly what Lionden feels on the situation because he is the only other person I truely think is town. (Mostly because he was the first on the actual Holy lynching wagon out of you three.)

and I am leaning more into the Sir Torn/Jmar partnership right now... mainly because as I have said, not enough from Havok to go on I think...

I am also interested in which one of us will get the first Second vote... And from who... I think as long as none of the other townies do anything rash we stand a very very very good chance of winning this game...

[jmar]

My apologies for missing your vote. Still, I don't think it really destroys my argument, since you unvoted three posts later. It was barely noticeable, didn't even show up in a vote count.

I still don't understand how what I said could be a scum slip up. Am I missing something obvious? Because your logic is not making sense to me. Please explain what you're thinking in detail, because I don't see another way in which it can be taken (maybe because I'm reading it with the knowledge that I'm town?)

This stuck out...

So I did not vote to prevent any seconds before deadline hopping...

So, you wanted Holy lynched then? I mean, that's how I'm reading it. I'm not gonna lie, I wanted Holy lynched too, but thus far you've represented yourself as not wanting that to happen. You didn't want any other bandwagons forming at deadline, right?

[Korlash]

No i wanted no body lynched... And thus I did not vote. Not that hard to understand... maybe hard to comprehend yes, hard to believe most likely, but plain and simple straight forward.

I still don't understand how what I said could be a scum slip up. Am I missing something obvious? Because your logic is not making sense to me. Please explain what you're thinking in detail, because I don't see another way in which it can be taken (maybe because I'm reading it with the knowledge that I'm town?)

Well... Seeing as how you asked...

You said:
"..because you're not on the bandwagon. Since I am, that eliminates one of the people off of it..."

Now look at it from my side.

You just said that because you were on the bandwagon you knew one of the people off the band wagon must be town. Because there is only two scum, that must mean your saying one of the scum must be on the bandwagon. And the way you said it seems like you were more or less saying You knew this because you were the scum on the bandwagon. Kinda a hard angle to press I know, but you pulled it off against Holy yesterday so I figure it will work against you too.

I think this could further my suspicions of Havok.. but I can also see it as furthering my suspicions of Sir Torn.. man i really wish it was one of them I knew was mafia... damnit...

[jmar]

I see now. It's very poorly worded, I agree. What I meant, and I'll agree with you that it probably doesn't come across that way, is it eliminates myself (one of the people) off of it (the bandwagon). You're looking at it as that eliminates one of the people (you and havok) off of the bandwagon (people who didn't vote). That's probably how I'd read it to, but in context that makes no sense.

No i wanted no body lynched... And thus I did not vote. Not that hard to understand... maybe hard to comprehend yes, hard to believe most likely, but plain and simple straight forward.

No, it's not straight-forward. If you're scum, which I believe you are, you do want somebody lynched. And you look better off in that regard if you do not vote. Thus you can want somebody to be lynched without voting for them. Now you said, and I quote again, that you didn't vote to prevent any last second deadline hopping. If you didn't want Holy lynched, then wouldn't you want a deadline hop to somebody else? And if you wanted nobody lynched, then were you advocating a no-lynch? (You did this once before, contradicting something you said earlier) We've already been over how bad a no lynch was for the town. No matter which way you slice it I don't see that statement lining up with you having the town's best interests in mind.

[Korlash]

wouldn't you want a deadline hop to somebody else?

i did not want ANYBODY F***ing lynched dude... you, holy, mith, sir torn, myself.. NO ONE! Not at that deadline... And I know how bad that makes me look, but I honestly did not want to see anyone die yesterday. So no, I did not want people to vote hop onto someone else. I wanted you and sir torn to continue not voting for holy.

And apparently I did have the towns best interest in mind seeing as how I was against killing one... >.> (Yeah... I went there...)

I do have the towns best interests in mind. Eliminating you, then your partner. All I wanted was to get to a night without making myself look too bad. Which I did. Doesn't look like I will be able to get to a second night though... Oh well one was enough. I caught you didn't I? Too bad you guys got lucky with the doc... Oh well...

[jmar]

I just asked a question, you don't have to snap and start using profanity. I find that to be a huge scum tell btw, not that I could really find you any scummier.

You talk as if you knew Holy was town though... that's the vibe I get from "you were against killing one. But for the uninformed townies, a lynch is better than a no lynch. Hindsight is 20/20 of course, you can say you were against lynching one now (you used the word "kill" again btw), but for us who didn't know anybody else's alignment, a lynch was the way to go (unless of course you knew Holy was town? Hmm...) And we could do the math out again if you like but I believe it's been done twice already.

Then you go and do this...

All I wanted was to get to a night without making myself look too bad.

This is the scummiest thing you've said so far. That's the scum's goal. The town's goal is to hunt scum.

I caught you didn't I?

You're the one who's been caught, sir. Multiple times. I'm just waiting for everyone else to come in and see the light.

[jmar]

Err... don't know why there's a quotation mark before "you." Ignore that please.

[Korlash]

I find that to be a huge scum tell btw, not that I could really find you any scummier.

Key reason I am trying to avoid it. so far I have done a pretty good job I think... Other then that little burst that is...

While it does make a game very uncomfortable and annoying it is in no way a scumtell. As much as you wish it were in this situation.

You talk as if you knew Holy was town though... that's the vibe I get from "you were against killing one.

Yeah that was a joke BTW cause everyone kept saying I was going to pull the "I told you so card!"

you used the word "kill" again btw

I have been using the word kill for half the game... Nice try trying to bring your partner's earlier iffy case back up.

This is the scummiest thing you've said so far. That's the scum's goal. The town's goal is to hunt scum.

Oh I was scum hunting, I found a scum, I got confirmed the scum, and now I am lynching the scum. I think I did my job really well...

You're the one who's been caught, sir. Multiple times. I'm just waiting for everyone else to come in and see the light.

Oh I hope they do see the light... And I hope Havok gets back in time because I do not see your partner hammering you today... I do enjoy this last minute shuffle your going through though... I find it kinda funny really...

[jmar]

Something else I noticed, rereading this very page...

However I do know for a fact at least one scum was on the wagon... because I am town... So... actually in my mind that makes Havok a bit more likely to be scum.. but I wont throw away the option both sum were on the wagon either...

5 Posts Later

1) seeing as how Holy was actually lynched I am very inclined to believe both Scum are on the wagon. So I want to more or less only focus on you three (Especially until havok comes back...)

First it's havok is "a bit more scummy" because at least one scum is on the wagon. Then you say "you won't throw away the option both scum were on the wagon" as if it's an afterthought, or a second option behind havok and one other on the wagon. Then, 5 POSTS LATER, you say you want to focus on the three on the wagon, and you're "very inclined to believe both Scum are on the wagon."?! You keep contradicting yourself, over and over. What gives?

While it does make a game very uncomfortable and annoying it is in no way a scumtell.

It certainly is if you've been a nice guy making jokes all game, and you suddenly have an outburst here. In fact, I think that's a huge tell. Your playstyle suddenly shifted completely. If you're so confident you've caught scum and I'm not bringing up a good case against you, you shouldn't be having outbursts.

Oh I was scum hunting, I found a scum, I got confirmed the scum, and now I am lynching the scum. I think I did my job really well...

How have you "got confirmed the scum?" Also, you haven't actively scum-hunted until now, which, coincidentally, was after I began taking a look at you and your posts throughout the game. I'm just gonna repost that quote of yours again, because if it doesn't scream scum I don't know what does...

All I wanted was to get to a night without making myself look too bad.

And I hope Havok gets back in time because I do not see your partner hammering you today

I bet you do. You need your scum buddy if you want to lynch me.

I do enjoy this last minute shuffle your going through though...

By "shuffle," do you mean "finding the scum, proving him wrong multiple times, and watching him dodge/ignore almost every question I've asked you so far?" And if you do, how are you enjoying it? Before you seemed pretty pissed off.

[Korlash]

First it's havok is "a bit more scummy" because at least one scum is on the wagon. Then you say "you won't throw away the option both scum were on the wagon" as if it's an afterthought, or a second option behind havok and one other on the wagon. Then, 5 POSTS LATER, you say you want to focus on the three on the wagon, and you're "very inclined to believe both Scum are on the wagon."?! You keep contradicting yourself, over and over. What gives?

A) I said I would not throw out the possibility that both cum were on the wagon so no it is not a contradiction.

B) I am beginning to believe more and more sir Torn to be your partner (Although his inactivity doesn't really help there.) And so I am less inclined to believe havok as the other mafia... Then again his inactivity is also unhelpful...

It certainly is if you've been a nice guy making jokes all game, and you suddenly have an outburst here. In fact, I think that's a huge tell. Your playstyle suddenly shifted completely. If you're so confident you've caught scum and I'm not bringing up a good case against you, you shouldn't be having outbursts.

Your right, I shouldn't be. Bad Korlash... bad lama! =D

seriously... I hate when I have to repeat myself three posts in a row. So yeah, I got a little flustered... More to the point I am getting even more flustered at the lack of positing from the others... Unnerving... >.> Here I am with a confirmed scum and not enough active players to lynch him...

How have you "got confirmed the scum?" Also, you haven't actively scum-hunted until now, which, coincidentally, was after I began taking a look at you and your posts throughout the game. I'm just gonna repost that quote of yours again, because if it doesn't scream scum I don't know what does...

Oh I have been scum hunting... in my own little way.. Trying to find a likely candidate... As for my confirmation... Well... If you haven't figured that out by now I'm not going to tell ya...

I bet you do. You need your scum buddy if you want to lynch me.

Nope.. just the other two town... Your partner's vote will be nice though...

By "shuffle," do you mean "finding the scum, proving him wrong multiple times, and watching him dodge/ignore almost every question I've asked you so far?" And if you do, how are you enjoying it? Before you seemed pretty pissed off.

Actually I find it really funny it is just you and me posting here... I would think that an action like this would have spawned some discussion... That really is pissing me off...

As for your "Shuffling" I personally see most of your points as BS but that is because I know who I am and who you are. But to the others it may or may not mean anything. Point is it doesn't really matter. You die today, I get NKed and it is all up the two remaining town to figure out the partner... So this arguing we are having just seems funny to me... Not trying to say your not a good arguer... I meant it when I said it has been enjoyable ^^

[jmar]

If you're gonna claim cop, stop pussyfooting around and do it already. I know you're not the cop if you're saying I'm scum, so my guess is your waiting to make sure Torn or Lionden don't come in and claim, which would ruin your plans. It's pretty obvious that you know you're screwed once Lionden and Torn read what I've written, so youre setting yourself up for a claim now while still leaving yourself room to wiggle out of it if one of them agrees with you or claims.

I'm not the cop, so... If there is a cop out there, DO NOT CLAIM right now. Wait for Korlash to say he's the cop, since that seems to be where he's going with "confirmation." Let's take this scum down.

[Korlash]

Sure I am the cop. I don't fear any counter claim other then from your partner... Which is most likely what is going to happen...

I haven't been pussy-footing around as you say, I was kinda hoping that I could drop the hint without attracting the NK tonight but alas I lost that about... 20 posts ago >< So I have more or less accepted my fate tonight.

*sighs* if the other town do not show up and your partner does I am dead come deadline and we lose... At least I did my part...

[jmar]

Well, there's not much I can do now. It's on the rest of the town to see through this rather obvious lie. I hope one of you guys is the actual cop, because it'll make this easier. I understand it's hard to go against a claimed cop, but you have to remember we're at lylo and there's a 50/50 shot of there not being a cop. It's something very easy to lie about.

Look at my posts and Korlash's on this page. Read them carefully. You'll notice he has very little defense for any of my accusations, and his case against me is weak. Think about what you would do in his situation. His only play is to claim cop. That's something you can lie about. He can't make stuff up to get me lynched other than that, because it's not there. Almost every argument he brings up is soundly defeated. Lastly, do a reread. Look at the connection between him and havok. You'll find what I'm saying is true.

Korlash just confirmed for me that he's scum, so there's not much more I can say on the matter. But think about the facts, and I think it's pretty obvious. Let's turn this game around and lynch this scum.

Mod, can we get prods on everyone besides me and Korlash please? It's hard to move on without their presence. Thank you.