Newbie 476: Slow, slow, slow, then FAST and over. Damn.

[Korlash]

As he said... there isn't much I can do.. *Although because there is a Doc the chance of a cop drops to 25%-75%*

So yeah, lying about it is a great gamble. I will not refute that. All I know is I am the cop and I foudn a scum.

And what defense do I need? Half of your accusations were more or less meaningless * I think*

If you want to give me a list of these so called accusations I will gladly make my own list of the defenses I gave. I have no fear because I know there is no accusation you can bring against me as I really am who I say I am.

[jmar]

No... it's 50/50. It's either doc and cop, or doc and no cop... that's the second really bad probability mistake you made.

I never said it was a great gamble... I don't know how you can refute something I never said. It's a smart play for a scum IMO. The fact that you called it a gamble betrays your scumminess... it's not as much of a gamble if you're actually the cop.

The list is basically the entire last page. You responded to most of what I said, but you didn't really provide explanations for any of them. You would quote a bunch of sentences and respond to maybe one, and none of the reasons I saw convinced me of you not being scum. In fact, most of the points (the ones I specifically listed 1-5) you basically conceded to me (1, 4, 5 specifically, your defense for 5 set up your cop claim because you were starting to realize you'd been caught). If you want to backtrack some more and change some of your responses, go right ahead.

[Korlash]

Oh right.. I was basing it off the original Cop, doc, both, or none principal. Yoru right it does more or less become 50/50 now...

Um.. It's a gamble for the town to trust me or trust your scum partner... Plain and simple. How does that "betray my non existent scuminess?"

I wont backtrack because for the most part I answered anything you said I thought was even close to a good attack at me. You can say all you want I never defended myself it more or less doesn't matter to me because I knwo I am right and your just a caught scum.

But I feel I indulged your "cases" rather well...

[lionden_56]

Wow, things have gotten really interesting in the past 24 hours...with claims and everything.
Claiming cop is such a risky move on so many levels, lying or not. I mean, if Jmar does get lynched and does come up scum, you're dead tonight, guaranteed.
If you are lying, it almost seems like you would want the counterclaim, because it would lead to a long conversations that would most certainly bring us up to deadline. Sure, one townie would know you're scum, but one vote doesn't kill you (well, with Jmar on you it does at deadline but at that point a lot can change).

[Korlash]

Yeah If I was lying I am dead come deadline. Plain and simple. We lose anyways if I don't admit my guilty investigation, so I figure I would actually give the town a scum instead of forcing us to do another gay random lynch. I have accepted my death and I leave it up to you guys to find the last scum...

[jmar]

The problem is I'm the townie that knows he's scum. But there's no way I can prove that to the town. It comes down to whether my case against him was good enough to stand on it's own against the claim.

[lionden_56]

is that like a half-counterclaim?

[jmar]

No... I already said I'm not the cop. I know he's scum because I'm town. And he's claiming he's the cop, saying he confirmed that I'm scum. But I'm not scum, so I know he's lying about being the cop, thus he's scum.

[MeMe]

The "bit more than 72 hours to deadline"

Vote Count

jmar

(1):

Korlas

Korlash

(1):

jmar

not voting

(3):

havok95, lionden_56, Sir Tornado

Three to lynch before deadline -- two at.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

havok95 has been prodded.

[havok95]

Sorry guys, I've been swamped with school and work. I'm going to do one huge reread tonight (in addition to the other 800 things I need to read) and I'll hopefully have a post for you. I'll try to stay on here over the next few days to see how the deadline plays out.

[Sir Tornado]

Korlash is claiming a cop? I am fairly sceptical about this claim... Korlash, WHY did you investigate jmar if you are indeed the cop?

[lionden_56]

@Jmar, sorry for misunderstanding. I guess I wasn't running with the assumption that you were town, so the argument didn't make sense to me. Now it does, and my appologies.

As far as the two of you going back and forth, I'm more inclined to believe that Korlash is the scum, but by no means a large margin. The claim is very, very interesting to me. I mean, it takes a lot of guts to fake a claim with a 50-50 shot of someone else actually being the cop (even if he figured the odds wrong the first time). But at the same time, if he's telling the truth we lose. And since we've heard from everyone and no one has counterclaimed, it leaves a few things still up in the air.

[jmar]

@Sir Torn: This is where his unwillingness to take a stance on anybody yesterday comes into play. He set himself up perfectly for a cop claim today. He could theoretically have investigated anybody last night because he didn't really definitively have a suspect yesterday.

@lionden_56: Think of it this way. People are just more inclined to believe a cop claim, but it's a logical fallacy. It was a gutsy move for Korlash, but even if he's counterclaimed it's his word against someone else's. One of us is lying. All things considered, it's 50-50 as to who could be lying. The thing that's gonna swing it in someone's favor is the arguments. Korlash's is basically "I investigated him and he's scum." I think mine are a bit more thorough.

I'm in a tough position, because I don't have a partner. That's basically two votes on me right there. It's up to me to convince both of my fellow townies to go against a claimed cop. So as risky as it was for Korlash to claim cop, he's in better shape than I am.

[lionden_56]

@lionden_56: Think of it this way. People are just more inclined to believe a cop claim, but it's a logical fallacy. It was a gutsy move for Korlash, but even if he's counterclaimed it's his word against someone else's. One of us is lying. All things considered, it's 50-50 as to who could be lying. The thing that's gonna swing it in someone's favor is the arguments. Korlash's is basically "I investigated him and he's scum." I think mine are a bit more thorough.

I'm very well aware of the 50-50 "my word v. your word" battle that a counterclaim can bring. In fact, I brought it up a few posts ago when I said that if he's scum he wants a counterclaim so we can get into an argument that would lead right up to the deadline.

[jmar]

You misunderstood me (probably my fault because I'm not being completely clear.) It's 50-50 right now. Just because he claimed cop doesn't mean he's any more honest than I am. Korlash could be lying (he is lying, btw) because we have no way of proving he's not the cop. I could be lying (again, I'm not though) because I have no way of proving I'm town. The difference is the reasons behind this. Korlash's is I'm scum because he's the cop, something that he could be lying about. My reasons are laid out on the previous page, but I can't lie about those- my evidence is right in the thread.

[Korlash]

Korlash is claiming a cop? I am fairly sceptical about this claim... Korlash, WHY did you investigate jmar if you are indeed the cop?

I already told you guys, I feel the person who hammers is always suspicious. So I investigated him. Also I had a few suspicions of Jmar yesterday. Not nearly enough to think he was worth a vote, but enough to further my investigation on him. I was half wanting to investigate Mith... Guess I got lucky.

And since we've heard from everyone and no one has counterclaimed, it leaves a few things still up in the air. Sad

To be honest this is unnerving... His partner should counterclaim no matter what... I suppose Havok can still do it but I was 100% certain Sir Torn was going to counter my claim... Hmmm...

@Sir Torn: This is where his unwillingness to take a stance on anybody yesterday comes into play. He set himself up perfectly for a cop claim today. He could theoretically have investigated anybody last night because he didn't really definitively have a suspect yesterday.

No, I just didn't want to drop any "hints" or clues that cops may or may not do. This is my first time being a cop and so I figured I would try and stay below the radar. But I was telling the truth when I said I did not find any one o you guys suspicious...

@lionden_56: Think of it this way. People are just more inclined to believe a cop claim, but it's a logical fallacy. It was a gutsy move for Korlash, but even if he's counterclaimed it's his word against someone else's. One of us is lying. All things considered, it's 50-50 as to who could be lying. The thing that's gonna swing it in someone's favor is the arguments. Korlash's is basically "I investigated him and he's scum." I think mine are a bit more thorough.

You think yours are more thorough, I however see no way to get more thorough then a guilty investigation.

I'm in a tough position, because I don't have a partner. That's basically two votes on me right there. It's up to me to convince both of my fellow townies to go against a claimed cop. So as risky as it was for Korlash to claim cop, he's in better shape than I am.

Not really. If I am, and I am not, faking my claim then I would be sure to get 2 votes, you and the real cop. enough to lynch me come deadline. While on the other hand If I am telling the truth I am sure to get two votes, yours, and then you partner's 2 min before deadline... I am banking on the town having some faith in me here I I know, but the fact I am right makes me feel I am doing the right thing.

I'm very well aware of the 50-50 "my word v. your word" battle that a counterclaim can bring. In fact, I brought it up a few posts ago when I said that if he's scum he wants a counterclaim so we can get into an argument that would lead right up to the deadline.

I already told you if you guys don't believe me I am dead. If I am faking it I am dead. If you do trust me I am dead tonight. Either way I die. At least I get to know I did my part! (also I did a good job of hiding the fact I was cop! yay for me! Seriously I am very ecstatic about this ^^)

My reasons are laid out on the previous page, but I can't lie about those- my evidence is right in the thread.

I already told you I feel I answered all your stuff. If there is something you don't agree with or something you feel i ignored please refresh my memory. If not just cross your fingers you are able to survive until the deadline.

Heres the bad news... Even if we lynch Jmar we still haven't won. I think you guys should post who you think is his partner or have some discussion about that for tomorrow... I was sure his partner would counter claim but I guess they are smarter then to out themselves... Hmmm... I still like Sir Torn but I need to read Havok's post when he posts it too...

[jmar]

To be honest this is unnerving... His partner should counterclaim no matter what... I suppose Havok can still do it but I was 100% certain Sir Torn was going to counter my claim... Hmmm...

My partner can't claim, because I don't have one. You're scum, remember?

No, I just didn't want to drop any "hints" or clues that cops may or may not do. This is my first time being a cop and so I figured I would try and stay below the radar. But I was telling the truth when I said I did not find any one o you guys suspicious...

That's a very vague and convenient explanation. Basically any claimed power role could use this as a defense. Also, you JUST SAID you had a few suspicions of me yesterday, in the SAME POST. That's contradiction #5404958, but who's counting?

You think yours are more thorough, I however see no way to get more thorough then a guilty investigation.

You're missing the part where that's something easy to lie about, while my reasons are foolproof- you can check the thread if you don't believe me.

Not really. If I am, and I am not, faking my claim then I would be sure to get 2 votes, you and the real cop. enough to lynch me come deadline. While on the other hand If I am telling the truth I am sure to get two votes, yours, and then you partner's 2 min before deadline... I am banking on the town having some faith in me here I I know, but the fact I am right makes me feel I am doing the right thing.

Unless there is no real cop, which is looking to be the case, which throws this whole statement out the window.

I already told you if you guys don't believe me I am dead. If I am faking it I am dead. If you do trust me I am dead tonight. Either way I die. At least I get to know I did my part! (also I did a good job of hiding the fact I was cop! yay for me! Seriously I am very ecstatic about this ^^)

Stop acting so noble. Your death doesn't really factor into the equation, because in everyone else's eyes, there's still a good chance you're scum (in my eyes, 100%). If you trust him, we're all dead tonight, because the scum will win. You say "either way you die" but again you're not factoring in the part where YOU'RE SCUM AND YOU WIN IF WE TRUST YOU.

I already told you I feel I answered all your stuff. If there is something you don't agree with or something you feel i ignored please refresh my memory. If not just cross your fingers you are able to survive until the deadline.

This wasn't really addressed to you, it was addressed to everyone else. I already know you're scum, remember? You confirmed it when you claimed I was scum with a cop investigation. So why would I still be debating my previous points with you? I'm not gonna give you an opportunity to backtrack and clarify your points now. If you feel you need to, the posts are all there for you. I was unhappy with a lot of what you posted because a lot of my points weren't addressed or they were addressed superficially or even conceded to me. But none of it matters to me now because you've revealed to me that you're scum.

Heres the bad news... Even if we lynch Jmar we still haven't won.

Yes, you and your partner have won if you lynch me.

I think you guys should post who you think is his partner or have some discussion about that for tomorrow... I was sure his partner would counter claim but I guess they are smarter then to out themselves... Hmmm... I still like Sir Torn but I need to read Havok's post when he posts it too...

Let's say, hypothetically you're town. You're dead tonight if I'm lynched, right? So then the burden of figuring out who "my partner" is wouldn't be on you. So how is their input as to "my partner" useful to you? According to you, you're about to die if I'm lynched. You've already said you think Sir Torn is my partner. You're certainly not getting ideas about who to investigate tonight, because you're gonna die. So let's see... what could possibly cause you to try and direct the town for tomorrow? Maybe you want to take the spotlight off me and you and get away with an easy lynch as the town discusses suspects for tomorrow? Way to throw in your scumbuddy's name at the end there to make it look less suspicious btw. Not obvious at all.

[Korlash]

That's a very vague and convenient explanation. Basically any claimed power role could use this as a defense. Also, you JUST SAID you had a few suspicions of me yesterday, in the SAME POST. That's contradiction #5404958, but who's counting?

right right I trailed off, it was suppose to be "suspicious enough to lynch"... But yeah. Valid point... and that is like your bajillionth Exaggeration there...

You're missing the part where that's something easy to lie about, while my reasons are foolproof- you can check the thread if you don't believe me.

ha ha ha... ahhh... there is at least one fool...

Unless there is no real cop, which is looking to be the case, which throws this whole statement out the window.

No I am the cop. Or more to the point, yes I am the real cop.

[Korlash]

Opps hit Submit prematurely...

Stop acting so noble. Your death doesn't really factor into the equation, because in everyone else's eyes, there's still a good chance you're scum (in my eyes, 100%). If you trust him, we're all dead tonight, because the scum will win. You say "either way you die" but again you're not factoring in the part where YOU'RE SCUM AND YOU WIN IF WE TRUST YOU.

Your right, everyone else has to think that that is a plausible scenario. I will do my best to convince you guys here but more or less it is up to you. It will actually come down to who you trust me, me or Jmar...

Oh and seriously if you guys saw something he said in the last page that really stands out or that you feel I need to better explain on just tell me so. because it was just me and him and I know he was panicking cause I caught him I more or less took his BS in stride...

This wasn't really addressed to you, it was addressed to everyone else. I already know you're scum, remember? You confirmed it when you claimed I was scum with a cop investigation. So why would I still be debating my previous points with you? I'm not gonna give you an opportunity to backtrack and clarify your points now. If you feel you need to, the posts are all there for you. I was unhappy with a lot of what you posted because a lot of my points weren't addressed or they were addressed superficially or even conceded to me. But none of it matters to me now because you've revealed to me that you're scum.

Fine by me. Until I see some actual valid point I see no reason even listening to your lies.

Yes, you and your partner have won if you lynch me.

Nope your partner will still be alive...

So how is their input as to "my partner" useful to you?

It will be useful to them tomorrow. Duh...

Maybe you want to take the spotlight off me and you and get away with an easy lynch as the town discusses suspects for tomorrow? Way to throw in your scumbuddy's name at the end there to make it look less suspicious btw. Not obvious at all.

I think your pulling at straws here. With the spotlight thing. The Sir Torn has merit.

Hypothetically, if I was scum I woudl certainly throw my scum buddy's name out as your partner that is for sure. Logically I would want to gain the other town's trust so they would be more inclined to believe me. A very good scum move, but overall a very bad move should I be "caught" and then "game over"!!!!

It does seem like a good case for you to bring against me here. However... Would you be more inclined to do that if Sir Torn really was your partner? Or would you be more inclined should Sir Town actually be one of the other town? As scum you know his affiliation. Hmmm... You guys should consider this tomorrow. It could point to both town and scum, depending on how you view it.

(Sorry, just my opinion for you all to use tomorrow =D)

[jmar]

Haven't read all your points yet, don't have time right now. But I meant havok, for those reading along.

[Korlash]

Meant Havok? He had points? o.O Wheres?

[jmar]

Again, I'm kinda rushing to finish a paper and I just skimmed your post here, but I believe you were saying that I said Sir Torn was the name you threw in as your scumbuddy. But I was referring to havok.

Here's the quote:

Hmmm... I still like Sir Torn but I need to read Havok's post when he posts it too...

You mention both Sir Torn and havok. When I said you threw your scumbuddy's name in there, I meant havok, not Sir Torn. I thought that was implied since I had already brought him up as my pick for your scumbuddy.

I'll probably post a more prolific response tomorrow.

[Korlash]

Oh cause see I keep saying Sir Torn is my best pick... Weird...

Ehh whatever... This game is pretty much lost if the other player's don;t post... that or it will end up being them taking a chance... I would much like to get their input here so they I can defend myself in their eyes while simletaniously (SP)hopefully making my case on you stronger. This bickering between just us two will get us nowhere fast...

See! In the last minute we have gotten nowhere.. how fast was that? O.o

[MeMe]

About 23.5 hours to deadline

[jmar]

Oh and seriously if you guys saw something he said in the last page that really stands out or that you feel I need to better explain on just tell me so. because it was just me and him and I know he was panicking cause I caught him I more or less took his BS in stride...

I was panicking? You're the one who flipped out and started dropping f-bombs, then claimed cop. Look at my posts yesterday... I was pretty calm the entire time, unless you said something ridiculous. Also, you hadn't claimed cop at that point... so why would I be panicking because you caught me? If I were scum, I wouldn't have known I'd been caught at that point. And your repeated attempts to go back and reexplain your defenses just shows even more that you know you're caught and you're trying to backpedal.

I don't want this whole part to get lost, because I think it's important, and Korlash conveniently only quoted a sentence of it...

Let's say, hypothetically you're town. You're dead tonight if I'm lynched, right? So then the burden of figuring out who "my partner" is wouldn't be on you. So how is their input as to "my partner" useful to you? According to you, you're about to die if I'm lynched. You've already said you think Sir Torn is my partner. You're certainly not getting ideas about who to investigate tonight, because you're gonna die. So let's see... what could possibly cause you to try and direct the town for tomorrow? Maybe you want to take the spotlight off me and you and get away with an easy lynch as the town discusses suspects for tomorrow? Way to throw in your scumbuddy's name at the end there to make it look less suspicious btw. Not obvious at all.

In response to this part...

[quote ="Korlash"]

So how is their input as to "my partner" useful to you?

It will be useful to them tomorrow. Duh... [/quote]

That makes no sense. The town will have time to discuss partners tomorrow, assuming we make it there and they lynch you, and we'll have a lot more info from who voted for who. Considering we're a day away from deadline and the only people voting are me and you, this isn't what we should be focusing on right now, by any stretch of the imagination.

I do agree with you though that this game is lost if we don't get some input (and votes) from the other townies. Otherwise I'm sure your partner will be showing up right before the deadline to seal the deal. I've presented my case and I really have nothing left to say, unless someone has a question about something I guess. It's on you guys now to make the right choice. I suggest a full reread, but if you can't find the time, read the last two pages carefully at the very least.

I hate to ask this again, mod, but can we get prods on everyone? I know they posted like two days ago but this game is shot if they nobody posts before deadline