STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[Almost50]

and Shadow_step claimed Almost50, who got no other votes.

IMHO, that was a very safe claim VC-wise (yet very ludicrous logic-wise). I was neither a leading town read for the crowd (only the Town leaders knew my identity/alignment) nor was I a scum read for many (if any). Anyway you slice it nobody would've vote me over you/Titus (if knew what they were doing) or over a dozen others (if they misunderstood and only read about the flavour being exposed).

[mastin2]

@Mastin why did you target TWIE over Kraska and Snarky who you were more strongly scum reading?

Because I was aiming for a freakin' innocent, not a guilty!

(Also, I couldn't target Magna because he's a crystal gem and that would be a waste, nor could I target my other top pick because I was informed they have a killing action and thus I'd receive a false positive. Not exactly happy about that, because between Klingoncelt, myself, and TWIE/that other player, if we're all truthful, that's four players who'd show as a guilty to the gunsmith since the miller role is very specific about being ALL investigatives, but I'm willing to buy it.)

I wrote the damn article six years ago, yet it's still relevant.
What would a guilty on SnarkySnowman tell me?
Exactly what everyone already suspected.
What would a guilty on kraskaesque tell me?
Nothing I didn't already suspect.

What would an innocent on SnarkySnowman give us?
It'd tell us he's town, but if he's town this game he's been godawful and absofuckinglutely useless, and you REALLY want someone like THAT as conftown? I sure don't.
What would an innocent on kraskaesque give us?
It'd tell us kraskaesque is town, but kraskaesque is just barely above SnarkySnowman in contribution.

TWIE, on the other hand...one, he's a low-key player: people weren't paying attention to him, and a result on him is a good way to change that. Two, I value TWIE as a lategame player. He's low-key, but he's an incredibly damn GOOD low-key player when he's town. If I got an innocent on him, it would have given him lategame leverage to throw his weight around when he really shines. (TWIE is not an earlygame player.) It would also force scum to take out a player they normally never would, and also make TWIE contribute to his fullest capacity.
And three, I know how dangerous TWIE can be as scum.

Because

he's such a low-key player, he can blend into the background so easily that he gets free reign for the entire game as scum.

But mostly, I was investigating him expecting an innocent.
Getting a guilty is rather inconvenient, to be honest.

What would you do in TFL's position?

My talk about motive is every bit as relevant here as it was before. It does not matter what I would do in TheFuzzyLogic's position.

The ONLY thing which matters is what TheFuzzyLogic would do as town, versus what TheFuzzyLogic would do as scum.
And I happen to have played with TheFuzzyLogic before, enough to know that his stance--while not what I would do--is something I understand him doing as town.

If he were scum with SnarkySnowman, sure, he'd save SnarkySnowman...but then, why would he claim responsibility for the event and having deliberately spared him?
If he were scum and SnarkySnowman wasn't scum...he has EVERY reason to let the lynch go through. Especially if the lynch ends the day! (The description of the event was unclear if the lynch would end the day or not.) A fully anonymous lynch on a town player during the fucking climax that leaves the town with zero chance to coordinate? Yeah, think about that for a moment. (I mean, I admit that's null and void if a lynch wouldn't have ended the day,

butstill

.)

If he's town, like I believe, then him letting SnarkySnowman live is consistent with his stances throughout the game. They are misguided, yes. They are not, however, unreasonable. They are not implausible. They are not totally outrageous. They're things I can fully see where he is coming from, even if I also see where he goes wrong and where I disagree with him as a result.

[Creature]

Though, what could explain that I was supposed to be roleblocked but wasn't?

[Titus]

@Mastina, Yes, getting a guilty on TWIE is inconvienent for the both of us.

RR and I had literally deduced that a 6 player scum!Farside needs TWIE. That's why I wanted to track DGB any other way, but no, that didn't happen. You guilted the one slot needed for Farside to have a plausible chance at being scum.

Can you consider that maybe you're the one who is misguided and Farside is just that obviously scum?

[Titus]

Though, what could explain that I was supposed to be roleblocked but wasn't?

Was that night 1?

[Creature]

No, it was last night.

[Titus]

No, it was last night.

Ok, carry on.

[mastin2]

Can anyone give a good argument as to why we should not lynch TWIE?

In spite of me getting the guilty, I actually don't think he's scum. That's the closest I have to a good argument, though, since I fully acknowledge a TWIE flip gives us a SHITLOAD of solid, reliable information regardless of his alignment.

It's basically a lesser farside, in that I don't think he's scum, and recognize ALL of the actually-very-good reasons for him to be scum, however, the key difference here is that with farside, I fought that wagon every step of the way and resisted it because I was very strongly against it.
With TWIE, I'm not against it at all. He's not my top preference, of course! But he's not my number one pick. Right now I'd say he's either third or fourth to be honest.

I'm almost certain that Shadow is town.

Considering Shadow_step is my top lynch candidate.

You're not gonna get away with leaving this vague.

[farside22]

I'm good with twie.

Vote: snarky

Creature are you going to explain why you took an action.

Also snarky wanted to align with a town read and does a block.
No.
Not just no, hell fuck no.

[Creature]

I think I forgot Snarky could roleblock me at the moment.

[Titus]

I'm good with twie.

Vote: snarky

Creature are you going to explain why you took an action.

Also snarky wanted to align with a town read and does a block.
No.
Not just no, hell fuck no.

That's according to TWIE, which is just preemptive justification for when his "vig" fails.

[Creature]

I am just wondering, if TWIE can only shoot during the season finale, why he tried to shoot during Episode 3?

[Titus]

Can anyone give a good argument as to why we should not lynch TWIE?

In spite of me getting the guilty, I actually don't think he's scum. That's the closest I have to a good argument, though, since I fully acknowledge a TWIE flip gives us a SHITLOAD of solid, reliable information regardless of his alignment.

It's basically a lesser farside, in that I don't think he's scum, and recognize ALL of the actually-very-good reasons for him to be scum, however, the key difference here is that with farside, I fought that wagon every step of the way and resisted it because I was very strongly against it.
With TWIE, I'm not against it at all. He's not my top preference, of course! But he's not my number one pick. Right now I'd say he's either third or fourth to be honest.

I'm almost certain that Shadow is town.

Considering Shadow_step is my top lynch candidate.

You're not gonna get away with leaving this vague.

I am REALLY biting my tongue here Mastina.

[Creature]

Oh nvm I forgot

[Creature]

TWIE lynch could possibly solve us the game.

[Almost50]

What are the allies?

I'm thinking grapes for me. I would like to make it up for the mess I caused today.

[Creature]

I kind of want someone trustable.

[mastin2]

If they wanted me Ic, they just en masse vote me.

You're apparently missing the point.

Scum didn't want any player in particular to win.

Scum wanted first and foremost to

hide

. They knew the votes would be public.
They also knew that if the top voters were all universal townreads, there would be large cries of the top voters all being conftown. And, inversely, that all the non-top voters would be scum candidates.
So by

necessity

, they needed to disperse their votes, in voting blocks of two. (Assuming four groupscum alive plus DGB at the time. Or, alternatively, three groupscum alive plus DGB.)

This isn't some outlandish scenario.
This is half-proven by the vote dispersion already. Skybird was voting me, and by necessity, one other scum must have also been voting me.
Yet who else there could possibly be scum? Almost50? RR?

So it's basically proven fact ONLY two scum voted me.

They did not want me to be the leader. If they did, then it would have been more than two voting me.

So if they didn't want me to be the leader, why vote me at all?

Again.

Simple: to hide.

I shall have a plan in place to either prove or disprove Farside as scum.

Literally redundant with your lynch TWIE plan. Either get a TWIE lynch or don't get a TWIE lynch and use your plan. Or, even better, neither.

Letting this happen just lets the scum no kill to frame TWIE or if TWIE is scum claimed they shot me or scum shot his target.

And this is bad...how?
If scum no-kill to frame TWIE, TWIE still killed someone we as the town designated him to, and forfeited their nightkill...MEANING A TOWN PLAYER GETS TO LIVE THAT WOULD OTHERWISE DIE.
If TWIE is scum and the designated target doesn't die, he gets lynched. We trade one town player who was likely to get nightkilled

anyway

for confirmed fucking scum.

Plus, there's a zero percent chance we are agreeing on a pool given you want kraska (obvtown), snarky (obvtown) and shadow who has had improved play.

Okay.
Serious question.

What's your scumpool, then?

Because farside is not scum.
And neither is Creature.
And I don't think TWIE is scum.

Who else do you suspect?

[farside22]

I think I forgot Snarky could roleblock me at the moment.

Oh rly.

Titus, earth to Titus.
Come in Titus.

Also if your going to pair me with every player you scum read, including math, I'm just going to avoid you for the rest of this game.

[mastin2]

Can you consider that maybe you're the one who is misguided and Farside is just that obviously scum?

And violate every rule of occam's razor I've sworn to uphold?

Absolutely not, no.

Your farside-TWIE scumteam requires one

very specific scenario

to have played out. Your farside-TWIE scumteam requires, even with that very specific scenario, a bunch of contrived, convoluted twists and turns and logical leaps that make no sense and don't fucking fit with their actual damn play. Your scumteam lacks coherency. It lacks reason. It lacks logic. It holds no chain of scum motive. It holds no clear links, nothing which says that these things definitely happened. It's a stretch, at

best

. At absolute fucking best, it is a stretch. It is implausible. It goes against all the evidence we have.

So no.

Never.

IMHO, that was a very safe claim VC-wise (yet very ludicrous logic-wise).

My point exactly!

Also snarky wanted to align with a town read and does a block.
No.
Not just no, hell fuck no.

This is a valid point.

[mastin2]

In fact, let's vote on that.
VOTE: SnarkySnowman.

[Titus]

@mastina,

Any scumteam smart enough to have 48 hours plans their votes to achieve what they want. That means, scum wanted you over me. It is that simple. Sure, they only had half the vote power, but that doesn't mean they distributed equally.

Even now, scum rigged these flips to ensure one of us dies. Do you think it's the person they gave power to? Not a chance.

If TWIE flips town, the odds are insanely terrible of Farside bring scum. Yet, you're refusing to address this point as a strong reason why TWIE should be flipped today. DGB and TWIE is likely the only scenario where DGB has communication with the scumteam. DGB having communication with the scumteam is required for Farside scum.

Yet, you are hellbent on lynching Snarky or Kraska and doing the scumteam's bidding over a guilty who has excuses that are terrible.

[Creature]

VOTE: Snarky

[mastin2]

Scum pool = Mcmenno, kraskaesque, obi

By the way, Titus: rule of three, you're fond of it, right?
Which of these three do you think is most likely to be scum?
Rather, two, given you're one of them!

[Titus]

Can you consider that maybe you're the one who is misguided and Farside is just that obviously scum?

And violate every rule of occam's razor I've sworn to uphold?

Absolutely not, no.

Your farside-TWIE scumteam requires one

very specific scenario

to have played out. Your farside-TWIE scumteam requires, even with that very specific scenario, a bunch of contrived, convoluted twists and turns and logical leaps that make no sense and don't fucking fit with their actual damn play. Your scumteam lacks coherency. It lacks reason. It lacks logic. It holds no chain of scum motive. It holds no clear links, nothing which says that these things definitely happened. It's a stretch, at

best

. At absolute fucking best, it is a stretch. It is implausible. It goes against all the evidence we have.

So no.

Never.

IMHO, that was a very safe claim VC-wise (yet very ludicrous logic-wise).

My point exactly!

Also snarky wanted to align with a town read and does a block.
No.
Not just no, hell fuck no.

This is a valid point.

No, you ARE violating Occam's Razor.

You have a guilty.
You want to vote elsewhere.
You may have wrote the book on innocents years ago, but I just finished running a clinic with Shiro on how to get and handle guilties.

You lynch them.