STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why do I even bother arguing..

What's his scum strategy going into this? Bus cakes and then turn around based on some arbitrary reads or w/e?

BTW creature's a good scumhunter I think what's more likely that happens is he nailed him on having a shifty read progression on him (makes sense from a town pov because I and a lot of other people track others reads on myself as a means of reading people) but then we town heard on cakes a bit and creatures paranoia as town thinking that there's too much hype surrounding cakes (especially on day 1) and seeing cakes town up a smidge (and yea, not gonna act like cakes didn't make a decent post or two) makes him turn around; and go right to pushing other things.

Half your case on creature doesn't make sense because you think his reads were him just quoting a cakes post.

Yea, the kraska hydra has made some pretty walls here and there. That doesn't make them town.

Generally because I think you are Town I asked for your input. I'm willing to listen to it. Doesn't mean I am required to find it persuasive.

Outside view - you've been focused on Kraska scum for a long time (looking at Kraska's ISO shows Day 1 scum calls from you) and you have invested enough game time and effort to it that you can't move away from it (the Sunk Cost fallacy). Maybe I'm wrong. We will have to see.

[MagnaofIllusion]

And it's damning as all hell the timing which skybird actually starts to exist for them.

Like, there was a lot of discussion about her flavor/role and stuff.

They comment on that AT ALL.

Just... develop and out of the blue scumread once skybird starts to scum up.

And yeah - not getting sucked into pointless (and clearly incorrect) discussion about Skybird's claimed role does not make them scum.

Actually - please point to the point where Skybird starts to "scum up" in the game.

[grapes]

That's the thing magna; I'm not going to be able to point to an exact moment in time where skybird wasn't under the radar anymore.

Town magic works in mysterious ways.

[grapes]

I can give you a roundabout time? Like wasn't it early middle-ish Day 2? She posted that completely out of reality readslist.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I can give you a roundabout time? Like wasn't it early middle-ish Day 2? She posted that completely out of reality readslist.

So your theory is that scum Kraska starts to get a scum read on Skybird after Skybird starts to act like scum. And Town couldn't get that read themselves? Frankly I'm not seeing how you are distinguishing for alignment other than with the pre-conception that Kraska is scum.

People didn't take my "Skybird is scummy" thoughts seriously on Day 3 when I replaced in either. It took Xk actually shooting Skybird to get most of the thread out of it's collective "Skybird is Connie she's Town" head-butt insert.

[grapes]

No not really. It's every that they've done this game as a whole.

I'm just trying out different little somethings to see if it's worth arguing with you about it and it clearly isn't.

There's too many distractions in this game to properly push a lynch on scum.

[Almost50]

My issue is that it is clearly sub-optimal for scum to specifically choose to ally with each other (except 100% for the WIFOM)

OR if they knew that one specific pair would give one (or both) of them extra advantages. Like, if one has a clause in their PM that states "Your alliance members cannot be investigated" or "As long as stress in @XX or higher your alliance members' actions cannot fail" or "When you ally with someone you gain a 1-shot use of their abilities to use later on" .. etc. If they know they will benefit from it they will do it.

[Almost50]

Can anyone point me to a list of codifed Alliance claims if one has been made? Thanks!

ISO Titus to get a neat table then myself for some minor remarks.

[grapes]

Almost why do you think creature is scum?

Would you vote kraska?

[Almost50]

MoI said I'm better off with grapes on E6, so you'd have to wait for E7

I mean it isn't like I have been waiting till e2 or something.

Whatever.

Yes, but you allied with RR most recently so you probably know more about my thoughts than grapes does. I assure you there's no "mechanical" benefit from allying with me.

[Almost50]

Almost why do you think creature is scum?

Would you vote kraska?

ISO me. I think I've mentioned Creature more than I've mentioned anyone else, and he was a scum read of mine since early D1.

As for kraska, I'm not willing to vote her today. She'd be like 6th on my list. My top three are -ironically- the 3 you won't lynch (farside/Fuzzy/Creature)

[grapes]

Your reads are bad.

[grapes]

What can I do to help.

[grapes]

Nothing I've said the last few pages has gotten through to you at all?

Or are you just so far gone into confirmation bias land on creature like magna that you're also a brick wall?

Creature is a mislynch.

[Almost50]

What exactly has Creature said or done that makes him town to you?

[Creature]

What exactly has Creature said or done that makes him town to you?

Do I look like scum who has given up?

[Creature]

If you're bothered that me not moving my vote off farside22 means I still want to lynch her:

UNVOTE:

[Creature]

grapes

Who would you lynch from Shiro/TWIE?

[Creature]

grapes

Who would you lynch from Shiro/TWIE?

[grapes]

I'd lynch em both if I could.

[grapes]

What exactly has Creature said or done that makes him town to you?

Body of work.

[grapes]

@Almost -- This is what you're sheeping right?

VOTE: SirCakez

It doesn't make sense for you to whiteknight me and then put me as "perfect null"

This is absolutely correct … it didn’t make sense. At this point the only other vote on SirCakez is Snarky. So a pretty safe distancing vote.

Says he wants to lynch Cakez at 1096. Has not actually tried to engage Cakez between his vote and this point. And more generic fluff about Cakez “playing like he did in TTH” at 1131.

Yet he unvotes at 1403 after Cakez posts 1403. That isn’t a post that should have Creature unvoting saying “Ok, you are Town”. Not in the least. Read Cakez’s post. It is pretty much an empty “here are some very generic reasons why I shuffled people around on my readslist” post.

How Foxbird and Skybird are town?

And a classic distancing post from Skybird here. Read his ISO for yourself but’s he’s said absolutely nothing to this point about Skybird being scummy.

Yet his next “scum reads list” at 1924 doesn’t have Skybird anywhere on it – Xk, Shiro, RR, DGB.

Creature drops another distancing vote (this time for Skybird) at 2314. The important point to note here is that Cakez is the leading wagon. And Skybird has exactly one other vote – the vote from KTS that Creature sheeped.

By 2731 SirCakez’s wagon has jumped back up to 10 votes. And despite having said nothing since 1405 about SirCakez he makes a pretty obvious bus vote in this post.

SirCakez fake-claims and suddenly he hops right back off at 2770. Pretty classic “Maybe my partner’s fake-claim will save him” move. Which clearly didn’t work.

So at the end of Day 1 he’s distanced from both flipped non-Traitor scum. At least to my eyes it is pretty clear.

Titus nails this back in 3273 seeing exactly what I am seeing.

At 5734 he posts a reads list that Skybird (remember the player he scoffed at being Town Day 1 and had no interactions with after that point to this post) in his “Strong Town” list. And despite having Mathblade in the second tier (aka weak Town reads) votes Math at 5937 with sheeping Titus as the reason. Terrible, terrible vote if he’s Town. Makes perfect sense as scum.

Updated reads

Town: Fire, Not Chara, mastin, grapes, farside
Nulltown: Yume, Creature, Klingon, A50, CoolDog
Null: Kraskaesque, KTS, Foxbird, Skybird, Seraphim, Random, TWIE, Shiro, DGB
Nullscum: Xkfyu, Snarky
Scum: Mcmenno, Obi

Special slot who gets their own corner because I can't read them = reasonably rational

Compare this list to 5734. Note that Skybird goes from “Strong Town” to Null with absolutely not interaction and even commenting on Skybird in-between. Pretty strong sign his reads are being manufactured since he’s scum.

Creature ends Day 2 on the Math mislynch. Note who wasn’t on his reads list at 5969. That’s right, Math.

MoI has the habit of attacking me, so I better be ready.

I’ve mentioned this earlier but wanted it quoted here – this post put me on alert for Creature specifically because the pre-emptive nature of the post. To me it is meant to say “If MoI suspects me he always does” which for the record is not true.

And important factor about Day 3 I’d also like to point out – here are all the mentions of Random during this day (which is the Day he ostensibly decided to investigate him at Climax) –

There are exactly none. So ask yourself – does Town who has an investigative role decide to not investigate a claimed scum read (Like, for instance, RR or Almost since Skybird was about to be killed by Xk) over someone they’d never mentioned at all? Especially when both claimed scum reads were harder to lynch players and random is basically slotted himself as a lack-of-activity easy vote? The answer is – no.

Other posts of note –

Another distancing Skybird vote at 7165. Still no interactions and clearly Skybird was under no pressure the Beach-a-palooza day.

Don't worry, he's just flailing as he'll be lynched like the others in RR/Almost/Skybird.

Voting anywhere other than farside22, DGB and RR/Almost/Skybird should be a scum tell.

Another distancing post from Skybird.

Which alliance should I join? Xkfyu/Shadow_step or Skybird/TheFuzzylogic99?

Why is this not a Town post you say? Why should he even be debating whether to ally with Skybird if she is scum as opposed to two non-scum reads in XK and Shadow?

So I’ve just summarized all the ways Creature’s posts Day 1-3 make perfect sense as a partner lightly distancing from non-Traitor scum.

More Creature votes please!!!!

What in here couldn't be classified as confirmation bias and not easily swung the other way to display town-motive?

His best point is under post #5969, and that isn't even a post creature made.

[Creature]

lol what

5969 isn't even my readslist

[mastin2]

I appreciate your attempt to walk back what you said to me, but no you weren't attacking my play. You directly compared me the person to Donald Trump the person.

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.
Won't make it any more true.
I was very specific when I said what I said: I said that you were doing what I do as scum. That was me inherently tying the action to play, not person. (And as I said, was also me inherently comparing my scumgame to Trump, meaning again: nothing I said about you is something I wouldn't say of myself.)

I will never, ever call a player the scum of the earth.
I will very frequently call their play the scum of the earth.

If you can't accept that, then that's not on me.

RR can confirm that I had a scumread there as well from our Alliance

"RR can confirm..."
"Shiro can confirm..."
"RR can confirm..."
"Shiro can confirm..."

I'll be blunt. When we get that type of mutual "the other half of this private PT can confirm" going on.
It makes me think, "yep, we have scum in there alright".

What are people's thoughts on scum choosing to align with each other for Episode 1?

A mess of wifom, but overall thoughts: not impossible, but less likely than them allying with town. Allying with scum is something that could tie to them interactions-wise, and also limits their pool of information. By allying with town, scum players get to know more about the player they are allying with, not to mention, have a chance at manipulating said player. So, it's more beneficial and less risky to ally with town, but not out of the question to go for scum.

[mastin2]

I want to ally with Mastin. Iknow she is town and I trust her

This would be a risk, but I'm actually not opposed to the idea. Wouldn't exactly do much, but I'm willing.

Question is why does he claim an action he couldn't actually do as scum?

I did throw around the possibility of scum ability trumping town ability, and also the possibility of the nature of Creature's ability trumping the nature of Snarky's ability, but ultimately, I didn't come up with anything productive either way.

He could be town, he could be scum, it legitimately doesn't matter either way to me right now.

The question isn't whether he's town or scum.
The question at hand is whether we want to lynch him today or not.

I personally do not.

My issue is that it is clearly sub-optimal for scum to specifically choose to ally with each other (except 100% for the WIFOM) given the rules specifically state the Mafia have Daychat. My expectation is that scum would want to ally with anyone else for information gathering since they can already talk with each other.
I mean … I’m not going to predicate reads solely based on who allied Day 1 but it is another element towards “Not Partners” for Shiro vis-a-vie Skybird.

Did you mean Shadow here? Because Shadow's slot was the one who allied D1 with Skybird.