Mini 508- Trouble in New Catania-Game Over

[Vaughn]

So after reading the thread, I've come up with a few ideas.
My very first idea was the someone2-Happiest Sadist duo. Just seemed like a typical scum pair. Someone2's scumminess needn't be reminded, and I'm very unhappy to see him not get lynched yesterday.

On the otherhand, HS's play was equally scummy. With his coming and going, without contributing, as if he was simply posting for the sake of posting.

However, since I'm the new HS, I now know the someone2-HS combo cannot be, which leads me to my second idea. I recall the possibility of two scum-groups as.. stated by.... somebody.. hmm, not important just yet...

Anyways, it got me to think of another possible scum duo, and maybe a different scum-tactic, the "distance" one. Of course, the only two people whom I thought distanced themselves away from each other the most would be BMQ/LML.

But then again, that idea's out the window now that BMQ (Ibby) is revealed as a Vig.

@Rishi - There's no reason to wait a whole month, let's continue with the end of day 1. Namely the people who voted for someone2 and their reasons why. Although I'm all for a someone2 lynch, the speed of his wagon seemed far too quick. Perhaps town snapped to their senses.. or perhaps there's something more to it.

[Rishi]

@Rishi - There's no reason to wait a whole month, let's continue with the end of day 1. Namely the people who voted for someone2 and their reasons why. Although I'm all for a someone2 lynch, the speed of his wagon seemed far too quick. Perhaps town snapped to their senses.. or perhaps there's something more to it.

The main purpose of my vote was to lynch someone (not to be confused with "someone2"). No Lynch, I think, is generally bad for the town, because it gives us little information. That was my motivation.

[Setael]

Final Votecount of Day one:

Lowell 2 ( Happiest Sadist, LoudMouthLee)
someone2 6 (CTD, Setael, Ibaesha, Lowell, Rishi, Rite)
Happiest Sadist 1(kuribo)

Not voting: death_omen, Streeflo,someone2

I would like to hear from everyone who did not vote someone2 when the deadline was looming. What were your reasons for choosing No Lynch over a someone2 lynch? If you were merely absent, please say so. I'm sure this can be checked into.

Happiest Sadist (now Vaughn) and LML (now DrippingGoofBall) are exempt since they replaced in after the No Lynch. This leaves kuribo, death_omen and Streeflo as active players (active enough to not need replacing at least) and I'd like to hear from all 3 why they allowed a No Lynch to happen. If someone2 comes up scum, these 3 will all be high on my suspect list.

vote: someone2

[DrippingGoofball]

If someone2 comes up scum, these 3 will all be high on my suspect list.

Agreed. Let's see where this leads.

vote: someone2

[someone2]

Ok, now I saw that I came close to a lynch yesterday and for a very justifiable reason:deadline. I was the scummiest player and I was considered absent. For my one page absence, it was because I had a history exam on friday. For me being the scummiest player, well, old stuff already explained lots of times. So, you had good reasons to lynch me yesterday, but today is different. I would like to undersatand why a bandwagon is started on me because of players that just didn't vote for me on Friday?It's not like if my bandwagon lasted for two weeks, it lasted a day. Streeflo and death_omen don't post often , so I think there's a good probability that they were just absent.

[Setael]

You are downplaying the case on you. I for one was not voting you just for lurkering.

[kuribo]

This leaves kuribo, death_omen and Streeflo as active players (active enough to not need replacing at least) and I'd like to hear from all 3 why they allowed a No Lynch to happen.

For me, personally, I was no longer convinced of someone2's scumdom--- I was beginning to see Happiest Sadist as a strong candidate for lynching, but by the time I came around to that way of thinking, the town was apparently set firmly in "Let's lynch someone2" mode.

[Vaughn]

@Kuribo - Not convinced of someone2's scumdom? let's hear why.

someone2's post just seemed really upsetting

someone2 6 (CTD, Setael, Ibaesha, Lowell, Rishi, Rite)

So you're saying these 6 people have it wrong? half of the players in a 12 person game seem to agree that you are by far the scummiest player around.

@Everyone else - Any speculation as to why Ibby was off'ed? I'll look at the posts and see what i can come up with later today.

[kuribo]

@Kuribo - Not convinced of someone2's scumdom? let's hear why.

someone2's post just seemed really upsetting

someone2 6 (CTD, Setael, Ibaesha, Lowell, Rishi, Rite)

@Everyone else - Any speculation as to why Ibby was off'ed? I'll look at the posts and see what i can come up with later today.

Lowell changed his vote at the very last minute, probably just to try and get the lynch off. At one point, we both thought it was Happiest Sadist, and for the record, that means I think it still may be you.

[CrashTextDummie]

For me, personally, I was no longer convinced of someone2's scumdom--- I was beginning to see Happiest Sadist as a strong candidate for lynching, but by the time I came around to that way of thinking, the town was apparently set firmly in "Let's lynch someone2" mode.

Lynch > No Lynch

If you disagree, you better come up with a good explanation. You were not convinced of someone2's guilt, that's fair enough. But by making a conscious decision not to lynch, you've deliberately opted to surrender the collective town's only means to actually get rid of scum (a vig is not guaranteed, and already dead now in our case). In a situation like this, you must always consider that you could be wrong and the people on the bandwagon could be right, and you must weigh this in the decision whether potentially lynching a pro-town player is worse than not lynching at all. Usually, it isn't. You didn't seem to consider, which puts you in a bad light.

You also didn't seem to consider the fact that someone2 didn't try to avoid being lynched by claiming (as far as I remember and gathered from skimming his posts), which is standard procedure in a situation like that. Instead, it seemed like he tried his luck by banking on the town's indifference, which doesn't seem pro-town to me at all. Any thoughts on that?

In unrelated matters, Vaughn's last post tingled my scumdar big time:

So you're saying these 6 people have it wrong? half of the players in a 12 person game seem to agree that you are by far the scummiest player around.

This is bullshit of the highest degree. 3 or more of these 6 people could be scum for all I know, which would mean that the majority of the town had it right. That you use such crapreasoning to attack another player is highly unsettling.

@Everyone else - Any speculation as to why Ibby was off'ed? I'll look at the posts and see what i can come up with later today.

As is this.

Speculating on nightkills is a largely fruitless endeavor and usually serves as nothing more than a distraction. There is

no

way of knowing why she was killed until the scum tell us in end-game. It could have been to invite the WIFOM you seem to be angling at for all I care.

Vaughn, Kuribo and someone2 are all worthy of a vote based on today alone. I'll read back through D1 to make up my mind on which one needs to die the fastest.

[Vaughn]

Vaughn wrote:
So you're saying these 6 people have it wrong? half of the players in a 12 person game seem to agree that you are by far the scummiest player around.


This is bullshit of the highest degree. 3 or more of these 6 people could be scum for all I know, which would mean that the majority of the town had it right. That you use such crapreasoning to attack another player is highly unsettling.

Bullshit to the highest degree? If you're going to speculate that scum were on the wagon, then perhaps you should start attacking people on the wagon rather than someone who wasn't.

I wasn't attacking someone2 with craplogic, i merely pointed out that the majority of the town seemed to want him lynched and as far as I can see, there has yet to be a reason to think otherwise.

Your defense of him is noted.

[CrashTextDummie]

My point is that using "half the players thought X" in an argument is seriously wonky because half the players generally includes some number of scum. I don't care to (and didn't) speculate on the number of scum on this particular wagon until someone2's alignment is known, but the mere

possibility

that it was heavily scum-driven completely invalidates your line of reasoning. It's a loaded question.

In addition, your attempt to spin-doctor my attack against

you

into a defense of someone2 is quite frankly ludicrous considering my stance on him for most of the game. If you use logical fallacies, I'm going to point them out, no matter who you target them at.

[death_omen]

I was deeply disgusted to see no lynch, but i had exams and couldnt quite follow up. Today a someone2 lynch is what I would support. I haven't quite got a read on HS or his replacement yet.

As for the nk i dont quite get what the scum were trying to do, maybe they didnt have much clue and went for a stab in the dark as it was n1. Re reading d1 ones events.

[kuribo]

For me, personally, I was no longer convinced of someone2's scumdom--- I was beginning to see Happiest Sadist as a strong candidate for lynching, but by the time I came around to that way of thinking, the town was apparently set firmly in "Let's lynch someone2" mode.

Lynch > No Lynch

If you disagree, you better come up with a good explanation. You were not convinced of someone2's guilt, that's fair enough. But by making a conscious decision not to lynch, you've deliberately opted to surrender the collective town's only means to actually get rid of scum (a vig is not guaranteed, and already dead now in our case). In a situation like this, you must always consider that you could be wrong and the people on the bandwagon could be right, and you must weigh this in the decision whether potentially lynching a pro-town player is worse than not lynching at all. Usually, it isn't. You didn't seem to consider, which puts you in a bad light.

You also didn't seem to consider the fact that someone2 didn't try to avoid being lynched by claiming (as far as I remember and gathered from skimming his posts), which is standard procedure in a situation like that. Instead, it seemed like he tried his luck by banking on the town's indifference, which doesn't seem pro-town to me at all. Any thoughts on that?

In unrelated matters, Vaughn's last post tingled my scumdar big time:

So you're saying these 6 people have it wrong? half of the players in a 12 person game seem to agree that you are by far the scummiest player around.

This is bullshit of the highest degree. 3 or more of these 6 people could be scum for all I know, which would mean that the majority of the town had it right. That you use such crapreasoning to attack another player is highly unsettling.

@Everyone else - Any speculation as to why Ibby was off'ed? I'll look at the posts and see what i can come up with later today.

As is this.

Speculating on nightkills is a largely fruitless endeavor and usually serves as nothing more than a distraction. There is

no

way of knowing why she was killed until the scum tell us in end-game. It could have been to invite the WIFOM you seem to be angling at for all I care.

Vaughn, Kuribo and someone2 are all worthy of a vote based on today alone. I'll read back through D1 to make up my mind on which one needs to die the fastest.

When I tried to argue that a mislynch was better than a no lynch, (regarding Lowell) everyone jumped on my ass for trying to rush the day, remember?

I agree with you in your sentiment that not all of the people voting for someone2 could possibly be scum, nor are they likely to all be town.

I don't know what you would expect him to claim--- if he's a vanilla townie, lying about having a power role would serve him no purpose, and claiming vanilla townie just doesn't have an impact.

Yes, I had the opportunity to switch my vote to someone2, and yes, I probably should have. My error was in assuming that at least one other person would do so, or that we'd figure something out instead of idling around and not doing anything the last three days before deadline. This game has had serious participation problems, and it'd be foolish to think that some of that isn't due to lurkscummers.

[Setael]

When I tried to argue that a mislynch was better than a no lynch, (regarding Lowell) everyone jumped on my ass for trying to rush the day, remember?

Are you providing this as a reason you allowed a no lynch to happen?

I agree with you in your sentiment that not all of the people voting for someone2 could possibly be scum, nor are they likely to all be town.

What is the point of this statement? It's just stating the obvious, and looks to be solely here to gain townie points.

I don't know what you would expect him to claim--- if he's a vanilla townie, lying about having a power role would serve him no purpose, and claiming vanilla townie just doesn't have an impact.

Why are you assuming he could not possibly have a power role?

Yes, I had the opportunity to switch my vote to someone2, and yes, I probably should have. My error was in assuming that at least one other person would do so,

I'm very interested in this part of that statement. If you were assuming someone else would vote him and just avoided voting and waited for someone else to do it without actively trying to stop it from happening, it means you were willing for him to die but didn't want to be the one to hammer. I can think of a few motivations for that mindset, but I'd like to hear yours straight from you.

or that we'd figure something out instead of idling around and not doing anything the last three days before deadline. This game has had serious participation problems, and it'd be foolish to think that some of that isn't due to lurkscummers.

This looks like you're trying to blame the rest of the town for the mislynch without accepting any of the blame yourself. That last sentence is definitely calling out the lurkers and implying they're the ones to take the heat. Are you saying you are NOT one of the players that "idled around not doing anything the last three days before deadline"? Because if you look back, for 2 weeks before the deadline all you did was post unhelpful one-liners.

[kuribo]

Are you providing this as a reason you allowed a no lynch to happen?

I already said I dropped the ball for my part on that.

What is the point of this statement? It's just stating the obvious, and looks to be solely here to gain townie points.

Why are you assuming he could not possibly have a power role?

It's exactly as you said- an assumption. Why would he allow himself to remain in danger for so long if he IS a power role?

If you were assuming someone else would vote him and just avoided voting and waited for someone else to do it without actively trying to stop it from happening, it means you were willing for him to die but didn't want to be the one to hammer.

Wrong. The someone2 thing picked up steam awful fast towards the end, and if I had been happy with it, I'd have voted instead of voting for Happiest Sadist. I didn't want to be the one to hammer because I was leaning towards him being town. (Still am)

This looks like you're trying to blame the rest of the town for the mislynch without accepting any of the blame yourself. That last sentence is definitely calling out the lurkers and implying they're the ones to take the heat. Are you saying you are NOT one of the players that "idled around not doing anything the last three days before deadline"? Because if you look back, for 2 weeks before the deadline all you did was post unhelpful one-liners.

Yeah, it's not like I tried to apply pressure to Happiest Sadist at all. :rolleyes:

I'm not blaming anyone, and am more than willing to accept my share of blame for the no lynch. It should be noted though, that alot of the people voting against someone2 weren't around when the discussion about his alignment was taking place. Why wouldn't they contribute to that if they thought he was scum?

And anyway, why are we ignoring death_omen and Streeflo? Not only did they also allow the no lynch, but they've been lurking in plain sight for quite a bit of the game. Same with Happiest Sadist (before his replacement)

[someone2]

So you're saying these 6 people have it wrong? half of the players in a 12 person game seem to agree that you are by far the scummiest player around.

Half of these were voting me because of the deadline approch.They would have voted HS or Lowell if deadline wasn't(Lowell, Rishi,Rite)

You also didn't seem to consider the fact that someone2 didn't try to avoid being lynched by claiming (as far as I remember and gathered from skimming his posts), which is standard procedure in a situation like that. Instead, it seemed like he tried his luck by banking on the town's indifference, which doesn't seem pro-town to me at all. Any thoughts on that?

How could I have claimed?The bandwagon started at 9am and finished at 2pm(Eastern). I was at school that day, so I couldn't post... Also, I don't see how I banked on the town'indifference?

[Vaughn]

Setael wrote:

Why are you assuming he could not possibly have a power role?



It's exactly as you said- an assumption. Why would he allow himself to remain in danger for so long if he IS a power role?

Because he's scum who can't find a good defensive argument to make.

Half of these were voting me because of the deadline approch.They would have voted HS or Lowell if deadline wasn't(Lowell, Rishi,Rite)

They voted you because you are the scummiest player. The deadline simply sped it up. There were arguments made against you, but you seem to be brushing them off and blaming "the deadline".

Kuribo's recent posts seem strange to me, noteworthy in fact.

[Streeflo]

I was absent at deadline.
The no lynch was pretty bad. If I was here, I might have gone for someone2, or maybe Lowell.

Vote: Vaughn

someone2's post just seemed really upsetting

Which post exactly?

someone2 6 (CTD, Setael, Ibaesha, Lowell, Rishi, Rite)

So you're saying these 6 people have it wrong? half of the players in a 12 person game seem to agree that you are by far the scummiest player around.

I agree with CTD, and this is a crap reason.

Because he's scum who can't find a good defensive argument to make.

You're kind of reaching here.

[Vaughn]

someone2's post just seemed really upsetting

1.

Which post exactly?

someone2 6 (CTD, Setael, Ibaesha, Lowell, Rishi, Rite)

So you're saying these 6 people have it wrong? half of the players in a 12 person game seem to agree that you are by far the scummiest player around.

2.

I agree with CTD, and this is a crap reason.

Because he's scum who can't find a good defensive argument to make.

3.

You're kind of reaching here.

1. Post #304

2. It's not perfect but by no means should my comment be dismissed in its entirity(sp?).

3. Reaching? I'm offering my opinion on another person's opinion.

Why are you assuming he could not possibly have a power role?

It's exactly as you said- an assumption. Why would he allow himself to remain in danger for so long if he IS a power role?

If you think I'm reaching, then what is Kuribo's response?

[kuribo]

What I meant was that I was asked why he wouldn't have claimed if he were at L-1 and a power role.

The point I was making is that unless he lies (scummy), claiming vanilla townie wouldn't do any good since it's assumed that he's either that or scum.

[The Fonz]

Vote count 1 of day two is brought to you by Apple & Blackberry Airways- no longer just pie in the sky!

Someone2 2(Setael,

DrippingGoofball

)
Vaughn 1 (Streeflo)

Not voting (8): Lowell, death_omen, Rishi, Rite, someone2, Vaughn, kuribo, CrashTextDummie

[Rishi]

Well, it looks like the lynch is going to be random. Even if Lowell isn't helpful, at least he's present. On the other hand, someone2 floats in and out.

Also, No Lynch is bad for the town. As per the rules of this game, we need seven votes to lynch.

Unvote, Vote: someone2

I have no idea why I am sticking out my next for him, but to back up someone2, I do find other people scummier in this game. I was trying to avoid a No Lynch.

[The Fonz]

Thok replaces DrippingGoofball.

[Lowell]

vote vaughn

. I dont' believe I derailed this lynch yesterday. If so, sorry.