Mini 1869- camn's revenge GAME OVER!

[Prism]

What's wrong with or plan seriously?

I'm very skeptical of the townbloc.

I would give SAJ's chance of flipping scum trivially higher than if you were to just RNG a name.

[Fate]

Youll be very surprised

[Vaxkiller]

What's wrong with or plan seriously?

Well the biggest one I see is assuming everyone "Jamming" last night is town. The other is ignoring fate. I don't get it, everyone seems to think he is scummy, but doesn't want to vote him.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Mastins pointed it out quite clearly. You simply deserve a scummy award on the spot if you jam. It's nigh impossible for scum to do something as pro town as that for 8 fucking hours straight

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

8 hours Vax, 450 posts of meaty game solving content. You just don't do that as scum.

Also, look at Nacho and I, we were able to break Ari out of his shell and be the town player he is. Saved him from a sorry mislynch.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

With the way things are laid out, if any of the 3 below are incorrect, then it warrants a high interest in Fate, otherwise not really man

[Vaxkiller]

8 hours Vax, 450 posts of meaty game solving content. You just don't do that as scum.

I don't see why you couldn't, especially day 1.

Besides, most of us do not have that type of time to devote to anything, so how is the AI?

[Prism]

@Nacho:

You're missing a few pieces here. First is that only my recent posts really pivot on you-specifically because I am trying to nail you down as town. (I'm working on getting away from this)

One of the first missing pieces is that you seem to think my interactions with mastina were done

for you

. This was not the case. It was targeted towards the game at large and was finished

before you even came to weigh in

. Your warnings about it have largely been ignored.

The second is that I did not remember you had seen Podoboq's game until

after

it was over. The purpose of my "winks" and open discussion over it was that the alternative-noticing it yourself-is damning and grounds for an instant lynch. Bringing it up and turning it into a discussion is the best way out of this.

Second is that my line about feeling you townread me anyway was a lie to see if you'd do it. There's

no reason

for you to believe that I did any of that as town, especially if you think the endgoal is to get you to townread me (which appears to be the case). The fact that, from your perspective, my whole game is

created to get you to townread me

, and

wholly artificial

, is puzzling.

I really don't like your earlygame. Last night is really your only saving grace.

P-Edit: Gin, can you explain in your own words why I'm town? Why does my ego battle only come from town?

[Prism]

The fact that, from your perspective, my whole game is created to get you to townread me, and wholly artificial, completely inorganic, and

still town

is puzzling.

EBWOP

[Prism]

So, I don't really get how this sort of question helps you. I've watched you ask similar things a few times now in this game, but I don't see how this is giving you information besides what people think of you, which isn't really that helpful IMO

Simple. I get my best reads from exactly that.

[Prism]

I'd just like to comment that I gave two firsts and two seconds to Nacho. Smooth.

[Fate]

If you dont want to roll the dice, monomuma remains a GUARANTEED SCUM FLIP

Like, Ill 1v1 guarantee it

[Nachomamma8]

What's wrong with or plan seriously?

I'm very skeptical of the townbloc.

I would give SAJ's chance of flipping scum trivially higher than if you were to just RNG a name.

The reads I feel confident in are Mastina, Gin, and Aristo. I will defend these reads to the death and if you're skeptical about them, then my posts will be more geared towards convincing then listening because getting townreads of this strength is very strange and not something I let go easily (and if other people do not stupidly lynch any of those players then we win the game). If you're trivial in the rest, good; talk to me about them. Provide an alternative. If you don't, sorry the lynch is going through.

[Nachomamma8]

What's wrong with or plan seriously?

Well the biggest one I see is assuming everyone "Jamming" last night is town. The other is ignoring fate. I don't get it, everyone seems to think he is scummy, but doesn't want to vote him.

What are your specific criticisms with {Gin, Mastina, me, Aristo}?
I don't think Fate is scummy. I think Fate looks decently town. I think that the things you've pointed out against Fate are playstyle, playstyle, playstyle.

[Prism]

I've already conceded that I will have essentially no say in the lynch today.

[Fate]

I want concrete reasons why you think Monokuma is town, Prism

[Prism]

And specifically, I am having an

incredibly

hard time getting cold reads this game, which is by far my weakest spot as town. I tend to get the bulk of my reads from working backwards from flips, and right now I'm the only person who's flipped.

P-Edit: I haven't given any of those or hinted that I townread Monokuma, actually. Quite the opposite.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't see why you couldn't, especially day 1.Besides, most of us do not have that type of time to devote to anything, so how is the AI?

There is a difference between posting for 8 hours and scumhunting for 8 hours.
Scumhunting is AI from a player because, if a player is scum, they have to either fake it entirely (scumreads), or they have to decide whether they will townread a player and close them off from a lynch or whether they will try to get away with townreading a buddy (townreads).
The way that they scumhunted for 8 hours in particular is important to me because the thought progression becomes much, much harder to fake; there are moments of genuine-looking paranoia, there are reads going to town and then falling back to scum as more of the picture becomes clear, there are moments where it felt like the game was really solved, there's pride in the end result.

You say that most people don't have that type of time to devote to the game - hell yes, it was an extremely rare and unusual circumstance that brought us together for a Thursday night but when a rare and unusual circumstance leads to three people posting and commenting on the game for 8 hours straight, it seems kind of foolish to throw that out the window as not alignment indicative, don't you think?

Like I've said before, if you've brought specific criticisms, bring them up. If you don't have specific criticisms and just have uneasy feelings, there's nothing I've done - I've thought about this game and I've thought about my townreads them in particular for longer than I've thought about most games and so if something is going to chance in my reads, then it will be in response to new information; it won't be because someone tells me to read again.

Does that make sense?

[Vaxkiller]

What are your specific criticisms with {Gin, Mastina, me, Aristo}?

I like that you are working things out, but you guys seem to think that you are all now super-town-game-

solvers

-solved because you were able to talk through everyone together for a long period of time.

The post below is basically saying you are going to be unwilling to listen or change your mind on these thoughts... thats not very town to me.

The reads I feel confident in are Mastina, Gin, and Aristo. I will defend these reads to the death and if you're skeptical about them, then my posts will be more geared towards convincing then listening because getting townreads of this strength is very strange and not something I let go easily (and if other people do not stupidly lynch any of those players then we win the game). If you're trivial in the rest, good; talk to me about them. Provide an alternative. If you don't, sorry the lynch is going through.

[Nachomamma8]

Like I've said before, if you've brought specific criticisms, bring them up. If you don't have specific criticisms and just have uneasy feelings, there's nothing I've done - I've thought about this game and I've thought about my townreads them in particular for longer than I've thought about most games and so if something is going to chance in my reads, then it will be in response to new information; it won't be because someone tells me to read again.

Right now I've spent a long time forming those reads. Those reads will be hard to change unless people bring up good points; I will consider each

point

that people are bringing up. But right now, they're not bringing up points. They're just saying that I'm wrong and they doubt the town block. What am I supposed to do if someone just tells me that I'm wrong? Go "OK, I'm throwing out all of my reads and starting again"?

[Nachomamma8]

If you bring up a good point, I'm voting them, I'm killing you; I once spent 5 months straight being utterly convinced that a player was town, my hydra partner who hadn't read the game checked in for a moment, pointed out one scummy post and pointed out that I probably wouldn't be alive if that read was good, and then whoops I switched my read and voted him in LyLo. But I need something to switch my read; again, you can't just go "I'm paranoid!" and expect me to drop everything.

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho:

You're missing a few pieces here. First is that only my recent posts really pivot on you-specifically because I am trying to nail you down as town. (I'm working on getting away from this)

One of the first missing pieces is that you seem to think my interactions with mastina were done

for you

. This was not the case. It was targeted towards the game at large and was finished

before you even came to weigh in

. Your warnings about it have largely been ignored.

The second is that I did not remember you had seen Podoboq's game until

after

it was over. The purpose of my "winks" and open discussion over it was that the alternative-noticing it yourself-is damning and grounds for an instant lynch. Bringing it up and turning it into a discussion is the best way out of this.

Second is that my line about feeling you townread me anyway was a lie to see if you'd do it. There's

no reason

for you to believe that I did any of that as town, especially if you think the endgoal is to get you to townread me (which appears to be the case). The fact that, from your perspective, my whole game is

created to get you to townread me

, and

wholly artificial

, is puzzling.

I really don't like your earlygame. Last night is really your only saving grace.

P-Edit: Gin, can you explain in your own words why I'm town? Why does my ego battle only come from town?

If you are scum this game, then your play is absolutely atrocious and bizarre to the point where I'll either need some fantastic explanations for what the hell you've been doing this entire game, or my excitement for playing scum with you and my high, high respect for your scum game will take a very serious nosedive.

Your early game with Pine felt genuine enough; your interactions with him were amusing, and you were doing a good job of conveying the "you've fucked up and here's your punishment" feeling. And then, here comes this:

You can argue WIFOM all day long here, but two things are on display here: 1. Pine read none of my games 2. Pine's pride clearly took a hit.

Which means the second you did something good, you had to run to me and point it out. To me, if you are scum, this is a desperate interaction; I'm not giving anyone a townread I care about due to interactions with Pine and yet you had to take me the time and hit me over the head with it about why I might think that it's town. At first, I was townreading you but then you point it out to me specifically and I twinge. But whatever, strict null, moving on.

If mastina has any good points whatsoever they're being completely lost. I'm pretending the past 5 pages don't exist unless your name is Aeronaut.

This is a missed opportunity, lazy; Mastina at this point had already become very, very polarizing. If you were scum, it's an infinitely better move to choose a side and gain some allies then just coast through the thread. But instead you go "hey guys, I'm not commenting on anything that people care about so far" - maybe you do this as scum to set up a negging manipulation of mastina down the road (sometimes you can get a solid townread from someone by harassing someone a good degree, getting their ire up, then recognizing why they are town), in which case, fine. But your manipulation of mastina was ruined when you again spent too much time talking to me about why I should be creeped out of your manipulation of mastina; you're right that she's not listening to me now because it doesn't make sense to. But when there are townflips, paranoia engages and if you think that she's not going to come back to me saying I have personal experience with you and holy shit your scum game terrifies me so don't let you get far don't let you get far don't let you get far, then you're delusional.

[Vaxkiller]

@nacho
I understand where you are coming from, and I feel the same way about my reads, and have a pride int hem as well. But I am bringing up specific issues, just not the ones you want me to bring up (you want me to bring up specific posts and reads I disagree with while I have been pointing out just because you guys "scum hunted" last night for 8 hours doesnt mean you are all town.

You mention paranoia and reads going back and forth but these are all things that happen during any game - just stretched out over a longer time.

[Aeronaut]

jam session, vote Jin

we found the scum group it's Aero, Jin, Mono

You're wrong about at least one of those people, and probably right about two of them.

Like.
Would Vaxkiller + Secret Agent Jin + Aeronaut be plausible?
It kinda feels right to me, but I'm not sure by how much.

Pretty unlikely. Aero is rising on my scum list and dreal is falling.

Um, but why though? What has dreal done that's changed your mind? All he did in that time was jump off of a confirmable townie slot onto Gin without a hint of reasoning, so from your perspective, that's NAI at best, scumposting at worst.

Today's lynch is Jin, we Vig Mono and cop goes after Aero.

Why would there be a cop if Mastina can confirm people?

WARNING QUOTE WALL:

Spoiler:

Yawn. Entertain me, mortals.

Heyo let's all come along,
Let us gather to hear this song,
It is a tale told far and wide,
About the scumfuck known as Pine.

He came to violate our dear camn,
To ruin her carefully concocted plan,
But here the forces of good will fight,
To destroy the evil known as Pine.

Heyo, let's all sing this song,
And in the process dump our thoughts,
To ask what we see and why,
To see through deceit and lies.

I say his ally is the yellow mouse,
His treachery shouldn't be allowed,
We should not allow him or his kind,
So full of their deceit and lies.

Heyo, let's keep going strong,
Don't be tempted to go wrong,
We're all here with a purpose to find,
Those that were corrupted by Pine.

Among their ranks is Aristophanes,
Who'd be a great lynch on this day,
I say that ending would be fine,
As it would so be damaging to Pine.

Heyo, let's lynch the Aeronaut,
Or maybe Agent Jin if not,
I say this with a sigh,
Don't be corrupted by their lies.

We can be a complacent lot,
So don't let our dear town rot,
Please I beg you to hear my cry,
You've fallen victim to deceit and lies.

This tale should not end here,
And that is my greatest fear,
That soon I will not be alive,
And you'll fall victim to the Pine.

*snaps*

And? I'm pretty sure that's what most of this game thinks, since it's you know, common sense.
Yep, I'm the only one who thinks we shouldn't let a game designed to fuck with us fuck with us, obviously. That's why nacho is the leading wagon, right?

Mafia exercise time.

This is a really fun one, I promise you.

Who here can spot the problematic nature of these two statements being placed back-to-back?

There's something very glaringly obvious in here. I could tell you at any time, but I want you to think for a sec, stretch your minds, and see if you're capable of figuring it out for yourselves.

I'm fairly certain the second half of this post is sarcastic. Like, I'd bet on that. Did you not catch that or did I miss something else in my reading of it?

I'm aware of Aeronaut being sarcastic. It's what the sarcasm is saying which contributes to the problem. The sarcasm, translated into non-sarcastic language, says, "Everyone knows this, and nobody's listened".

In the second bit? No, it translates to please stop pushing Nacho using setup spec reasoning, because it was just making you silly and tunnely. And look, it worked. You're not quibbling with us about setup spec like you're in a newbie game and actually starting to play the game instead.

The entirety of #710 is pretty manufactured-sounding. It's mostly some very weak reasons for SRing Fate and then him justifying the switch from drealz with more silly bullshit.

Does anyone actually believe that Fate is town? All he has been doing is spreading miss-information, providing horrible reasons for his voting 418 432 Hes not even reading the thread 350 604!

Asks questions, but refuses to answer small legitimate ones asked of him: 577 578 579 580. All this translates to scum, and hes having a blast doing it. I'm having fun with this game too, but I can guarantee the scum are having even more fun.

Here Vax is absolutely appalled that anyone could think fate is town, what are we all doing?! Most of Vax's reasoning here is that Fate isn't reading the thread, and is therefore scum, which is at most anti-town.

Wait is camn allowed to post freely too or is that just flavor <_<

Worried?

Here he is commenting on a fluff post as if it's AI

Pine's tellign the truth here


Whichis exactly what I said

Nacho first round scum pick

Fate second round town pick

???

profit

You modified this a bit, and your using fate to defend yourself?

Nacho was a first round pick, Fate. You were a second round pick.

Hate to burst your bubble.

I know I said this before but post 628 reeks of someone thinking of a great joke, but has to wait for the right moment, when the blurt it out all the sudden and it sounds super rehearsed, like they have been waiting to say it for soooo long. As soon as you rolled scum you thought of this right?


VOTE: Fate
I still want dreal dead, once fate flips maybe more people will believe my dreal case.

Also, him asserting that 628 or really any of Fate's postings this game is

too rehearsed

and that's why fate is a really, really, silly accusation to make about fate, who I'm 90% sure just types letters and lets it autocorrect into words into this thread. Like, there's probably a lot of reasons that fate could be scum in this game, but rehearsed posts is not one of them.

I also dislike how he immediately feels the need to justify it, and when you think about it, this justification makes no sense; fate flipping scum would not make drealz seem any more scum worthy anyone, especially since fate has minimal interaction with him besides calling him scum. If anything, a drealz wagon could get marginally more traction if fate flipped town, but even then , nah. So this justification is shit, and this case is shit.

This post is really interesting. Before I give my thoughts, Aero, can you tell me why fate is scum to you?

As far as I've seen, he's not trying to solve the game, he's more just waffling around. Recently he's had a few more solidified reads on people, but even then it's minimal and not what I really thought I'd see from one of the top three people that mastina thinks should have been first round picks.

Having said that, most of the others who followed me onto this wagon did it for bad to no reasoning, so it's making me second guess it entirely.

As for why my vote's stayed the same, it's because I haven't finished reading unfortunately.

I was really bothered that you jumped off fate. TO me it kinda looked like you voted fate (your scum partner) at the beginning and then got stuck there because a wagon formed pretty quickly.
When asked you seem wishy washy about it. You are like: yeah fate could be scummy, but I dont want to lynch. This just seems like protecting to me (See above and below)

No, I voted fate, caught up, hated the wagon on him, and then decided fuck that.

Can I ask why you chose those specific people to talk about those people respectively?

Looking for associations. Also some people have expressed thier thoughts on one or the other and I wanted to make sure were still true, or get reasons for them not being so.
Not everyone answered.

My issue with it is that it just seems like asking random people random questions; what did you get out of that?

Voting secret agent jin is about the least town thing you can do at the moment. WTF is anyone even voting him? You are just handing scum an easy lynch that they wont ever have to explain thier vote on because he is MIA for 3 days.

I mean, If you've got a better plan, share it. And looking back at what Jin has posted, do you see anything that makes him really pro-town? He posted waffly and wavy reads, and then left for a week, and didn't do anything since.

So, I don't really get how this sort of question helps you. I've watched you ask similar things a few times now in this game, but I don't see how this is giving you information besides what people think of you, which isn't really that helpful IMO

Simple. I get my best reads from exactly that.

Can you take me through that?

[Vaxkiller]

EBWOP
Picking up from:
... doesnt mean you are all town

and game is solved.