Mini 551- Mod Abandoned

Joubert · Post Post #7 (isolation #0) » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:54 pm

/shazam...

Joubert · Post Post #30 (isolation #1) » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:19 pm

Vote: Xylthixlm

, obviously because he has way too many consonants in his name...

Joubert · Post Post #63 (isolation #2) » Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:35 pm

SensFan wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:
Korts wrote:Uh, question. Do PRs last for the whole game?
Not if we lynch him.

SensFan: Can you talk about your post restriction? 'Y' or 'N'.
Can you make votes that aren't on actual players?
Can you make votes of more than one letter?

SensFan clasps his hand over his mouth while holding up one finger, then nods his head forward-and backwards once while holding up two fingers, then side-to-side once while holding up three fingers.

Quite simple. Apparently, he can't talk normally. We got 3 answers from the questions, however...

1) Can you talk about your post restriction? 'Y' or 'N'. He can't talk about it.
2) Can you make votes that aren't on actual players? Yes.
3) Can you make votes of more than one letter? No.

Joubert · Post Post #179 (isolation #3) » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:37 pm

What makes me tingle is that SensFan seems to be the only one with a PR. The other thing is that he claimed quite fast. Usually I don't believe such simple claims easily, but because of the PR (which could be true nevertheless), SensFan wouldn't have any choice to make his claim that straightforward...

Counterclaiming that early in the game would be an error. So if there's a real Cop out there, he should refrain...

Joubert · Post Post #196 (isolation #4) » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:00 pm

OR... Simply ignore SensFan for now, find other trails and the real Cop (if there's one) can investigate him during the Night. That's another possibility...

Joubert · Post Post #289 (isolation #5) » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:14 pm

And his suggestion for another cop to investigate sens is just bad, though I'm inclined to put that down to bad game theory rather than malicious intent.

Mah, this is too easy. IF there's "another" Cop (we should call him the "real" Cop), him investigating the claimed Cop could reveal useful. And in the same post, Shaka says SensFan could be the Cop, so let's not lynch him at all. Lacks subtlety...

And I get voted on for I-don't-know-what-reason in a 8-hour time span...

Joubert · Post Post #296 (isolation #6) » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:07 pm

@Joubert: you mean, my post about why I suspected you doesn't count as a reason?

Of course not... You say I don't post a lot, and then, out of nowhere you vote me...

The "real" cop would be wasting an investigation on SF. He'd practically be confirmed scum. All the cop would have to do is come forward with the results of last night, and SF would be screwed. On the other hand, I advise the real cop, if it isn't SF, to keep his investigation to himself unless he has at least a guilty. Until then, SF would have a false sense of security and would be more likely to trip up even without the counterclaim. Shanba says SF could be the cop, so let's not lynch him until we can be sure he's not. Lacks subtlety, sure. Do you? Heck yeah.

Okay, I see what you mean. Now can you please tell everyone why you voted me?

Joubert · Post Post #321 (isolation #7) » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:29 pm

Korts wrote:The "real" cop would be wasting an investigation on SF. He'd practically be confirmed scum. All the cop would have to do is come forward with the results of last night, and SF would be screwed. On the other hand, I advise the real cop, if it isn't SF, to keep his investigation to himself unless he has at least a guilty. Until then, SF would have a false sense of security and would be more likely to trip up even without the counterclaim. Shanba says SF could be the cop, so let's not lynch him until we can be sure he's not.

But if he's actually Scum, then the Cop coming forward is exactly what he'd want. We don't need the Cop to get out in the light for him. The Cop must hide as long as possible to get as much info as possible before he's targeted, that's obvious. You agree with much of what I said anyways, that's why I find it strange that you voted me in the same post...

SensFan looks anything but convincing, PR included. He talks normally with one-line, one-letter bolded votes, but he can also quote as usual and he votes as usual also. It doesn't look serious...

Vote: SensFan

, to make my vote reflect my thought...

Cavebear doesn't look too serious either with his direct vote only because, according to him, I don't post enough. A FoS would have been borderline, but a full vote is exagerated. Here:

FoS: Cavebear with a toothache

Joubert · Post Post #323 (isolation #8) » Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:03 pm

Nice work, Cavebear, now you are definitely getting in the way of the Town. I'd swear it was staged...

Joubert · Post Post #326 (isolation #9) » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:45 am

Korts, there's a difference between investigating and claiming. You're right when you say I did suggest that the real Cop investigate SF, but I don't think I used the word "should". I said he

could

do it, and not counter-claim, and I'm pretty sure everyone agrees with that, including you...

So, I said that, but I don't anymore, because I realize SensFan's PR is not serious enough. So the Cop should search elsewhere...

Joubert · Post Post #328 (isolation #10) » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:16 pm

That was so predictable, Imat. So if SF is not worth a lynch, then what do you suggest? By the way, I don't think anyone voted out of "annoyance" as you say. Or maybe it's some kind of projection. You are annoyed by it, but you prefer make it look like it's someone else...

Cavebear, I will vote you each time you change your mind and/or your vote. Any objection? I hope not, because that's exactly what you did to me...

Joubert · Post Post #339 (isolation #11) » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:17 am

Cavebear, it was an expression, not that I would really vote you anytime, unless you act scummy enough to go beyond a FoS...

Joubert · Post Post #356 (isolation #12) » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:34 pm

Korts, you're right when you say I changed my mind. I realized later that investigating would be useless, with someone's post (Elias I think). Now I'm focusing more on the Cop's hiding and I stick with SensFan's unconvincing PR...

Joubert - why did you go after Cavebear and not the others pushing your lynch?

Probably because the last post was from Cavebear, so I replied to him by default. I did reply to others, though, but it was very generic, like asking why I am voted so quickly without even a FoS...

Joubert · Post Post #369 (isolation #13) » Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:39 am

Imat, you point makes sense, but do you think it's preferable to let the game drag instead? You can't let a character idle around just because he has a PR. Replacements work like this...

Joubert · Post Post #398 (isolation #14) » Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:04 pm

I'd say it's not much because Lovo may or may not be behaving scummy, but more like the sudden wind of change that's shifting the spotlight away from SF, seemingly...

Joubert · Post Post #402 (isolation #15) » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:01 pm

Go, party !

Vote: lovo14

Joubert · Post Post #412 (isolation #16) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:18 am

Korts, you're clearly trying to divert attention, but let me recall that I was also for the SF lynch, like many others, but the wagon changed suddenly. Too suddenly. And now, you're capitalizing on the result to look innocent. Quite fishy...

Joubert · Post Post #417 (isolation #17) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:29 pm

Lynch me, then.

Ahrem, that's not the point. It's about the principle of trying to look good after diverting the wagon in record time...

Joubert, youre calling him fishy for capitalizing on the quick wagon change? WTF are you on?

I didn't

initiate

the wagon change, I was already on SF's wagon and whang!, diverted. After a while (a short while), the SF wagon count was going down...

Did you ever had the experience of someone claiming and it bears no effect at all? Perpetual WIFOM, and the guy ends up on the gallows anyways. I considered Lovo's behavior scum enough (Xylthixlm's post had some meat at least) to hammer. Now, I know, you're probably asking the question: should any hammerer be lynched right away? I'm sure not. It would be too easy and noone would want to hammer, because noone wants to die (except the Jester)...

I'm leaving my vote on you till you're lynch.

Now, this sounds familiar. Peculiar, even. Remember Ting that your initial vote on me didn't hold much water anyways, so keeping your vote on me only for the sake of keeping it that way bears no weight at all. I'd say it plays against you...

Joubert · Post Post #423 (isolation #18) » Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:04 pm

ting =) wrote:joubert - I never had a vote on you. Ever. And no, I really don't think that hammer was justified.

Gah, that's right. I should have referred to Korts...

Joubert · Post Post #472 (isolation #19) » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:22 pm

When I first read Cogito's post asking Korts if he's a roleblocker "too", I lifted an eyebrow, but now seeing the majority being roleblockers, it explains it all...

I'm also a roleblocker, and my target was Imat...

At least we have a lot of questions answered and some games mechanics clarified for now. So as expected, only the Mafia goon sent to kill have to be blocked, which is obvious. And with that many rolebockers, there's still good chances that the killer is blocked, but there's also good chances that any blocker of a killer is blocked itself. This may have caused Elias' death, apparently...

The circling or pairing strategy is not fool-proof, since any anti-Town could just assume he blocked someone already blocked. Blocking someone twice doesn't bear any special effect...

I'm also wondering how the priorities are decided among the groups of same precedence. According to the game's mechanics, roleblockers are all on the same "level" in the stack. My guess is that all roleblockers block at the same time, regardless. Killers are resolved after roleblockers, so only roleblockers that weren't blocked get to do their blocking successfully...

That is, if I understand the staking process correctly, which may not be the case...

Joubert · Post Post #477 (isolation #20) » Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:13 pm

Okay, but then, in the example, from A to E, who's who? Is it on a "first come, first serve" basis?
How do you decide which roleblocker is A, which one is B, etc... ?

Joubert · Post Post #487 (isolation #21) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:34 am

Sorry for the fuss, people. Now I understand. I did read the first post and the explanations, but it was just not perfectly clear. Now it is...

Cavebear, yes, I did read about not revealing the blocked person, but since there was some people who already did, I thought it would make things clearer for subsequent plans...

The pairing strategy seems to be good. If there are Mafia roleblockers, this could make things more confused and break our setup...

Korts, I see what you mean, but there must be someone not paired, since there's an even number of people and SF is supposed to be left alone. Do you think we should replace CES with someone else?

Joubert · Post Post #489 (isolation #22) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:48 am

Anyone would be WIFOM, unless we throw a dice...

Joubert · Post Post #503 (isolation #23) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:20 pm

Jerubbaal brought a very important point here...

I posted my doubts earlier about SF's PR and I still think it's misplaced. But I don't push the possibility aside entirely either. The alleged Cop could reveal to be our key to success, or our key to demise. The basic plan is to setup the mutual blocks so SF can investigate. That is good IF SF is not Scum. If he is, he'll laugh at us and Scum will win without breaking a sweat...

On the other hand, the No-Lynch suggested earlier could be a reasonable alternative. We can't end up in Lylo with 9 people alive, right? But, thinking about it, the results SF will give us could very well be a fabrication if he's not a real Cop...

Joubert · Post Post #525 (isolation #24) » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:29 pm

I think it's reasonable to say that we got some interesting insight for the last posts. We managed to get into a situation where the Town will surely get good information after actions take place...

Of course, objectively speaking, jerubbaal's suspicion is not completely unjustified. But still, both names are alike, and I'm currently in another game with SensFan, so the confusion is likely and it'd be better to assume good faith. And let's suppose SensFan did not made his mistake, it would still mean that jerubbaal's death won't be for nothing, as it will reveal information for the Town as a team. Unless we lunch SensFan immediately, but with jerubbaal's lynch, SensFan's identifity will surely be clarified a lot. With those 3 factors in mind, jerubbaal's reaction seems somewhat exaggerated...

That put aside, here's the overview. If we lynch jerubbaal, and he turns out Scum (best case scenario), it means we eliminated a Scum and we can trust SensFan. UNLESS SensFan is bussing, which is a possibility, but I don't think it can be assessed comfortably at this point in the game. If jerubbaal turns out Innocent, we lose a Townie but we know that SensFan is lying, which is good as well...

Joubert · Post Post #545 (isolation #25) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:56 pm

What makes me uncomfortable is the possibility that SF could be Scum even if Jerub turned up Scum. Basically, we are confronted with: we lynch Jerub to find out SF's identity VS we kill SF immediately because his PR doesn't make sense...

Joubert · Post Post #558 (isolation #26) » Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:53 pm

And what would SF gain, if he's scum, by getting his partner lynched? He'd get a nightkill, yeah, but town wouldn't be any closer to losing.

Because of that strategy discussed earlier. If SF is trusted, he will look for Scum while the others roleblock in pairs. But if he turns up Scum, he could mislead the Town any way he pleases. And now, we have CES' other point, which has to be weighted like anything else. Although I don't like metagaming very much, it's still another marble in the scale...

Joubert · Post Post #572 (isolation #27) » Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:12 pm

I don't have any much to add, but still to confirm my position. Lynching jerubbaal (even if it's not fun to be killed) really could deliver better results than only lynching SF, because ANYWAY, if jerubbaal turns up Town, SF should be lynched right away...

Another thing about the pairings: with 10 people alive, we can't have pairings with someone left alone, unless we craft a threesome with 3 RBs...

Joubert · Post Post #605 (isolation #28) » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:54 pm

I'm for both plans, since both are bound to deliver interesting outcomes, but I'm leaning towards lynching Jerub. But noone should vote until we agree on the pairings. There's the random plan, and there's the "most-townish-choose" plan. Which one? It seems more logical to set up the pairings according to previously gathered informations and opinions...

Joubert · Post Post #622 (isolation #29) » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:19 pm

Not sure if insulting everyone randomly will help anyone...

Joubert · Post Post #658 (isolation #30) » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:25 am

It seems there will always one or two players who won't fully agree with any suggestion by any player, so we have to cut somewhere. I think Kort's arrangement is based on good faith. And there's always a part of speculation since noone is really 100% confirmed unless he's dead...

So go for it!

Vote: Jerubbaal

Joubert · Post Post #673 (isolation #31) » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:21 pm

I'm still wondering how Jerubbaal can end up with such certainty about "confirmed" Townies. What makes someone confirmed and what makes him not?

Joubert · Post Post #676 (isolation #32) » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:17 pm

Dah, I knew it would come to that. If I vote SF, will the game deblock?

Joubert · Post Post #679 (isolation #33) » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:47 pm

Jerubbaal, if you turn up Scum, can I punch you in the face?

Joubert · Post Post #682 (isolation #34) » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:03 pm

I can punch you after you're lynched, no? It'll be less satisfying, but better than nothing, I guess...

Joubert · Post Post #686 (isolation #35) » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:05 pm

I don't like Meta at all... Jerubbaal, the reason why some people prefer to lynch you and then act upon the results were explained earlier, and more than once... I don't think I need to explain again...

Joubert · Post Post #699 (isolation #36) » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:42 pm

Dang, Jerubbaal knows so much about the game, he looks even scummier because of that...
Confirmed Townies? What's that? The only "confirmed" Townies I know are dead. Cold dead...
Change your disc, Jerubbaal...

Joubert · Post Post #722 (isolation #37) » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:01 pm

My impression on Jerub has not changed. It just seems his life has more value. According to the actual hypothesis, we should try to confirm the Cop's claim, since the Cop has more value than a normal Townie. If we lose the Cop definitively, the chances of winning are not zero, but they are diminished...

Joubert · Post Post #728 (isolation #38) » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:48 pm

Jerubbaaaaaaaaal wrote:Do go back and read day 1. Try to look at SF's posting apart from all the PR, and even without the PR, his behavior is scummy as hell. Similarly, I don't think Joubert has actually said anything even moderately original in this game. Barntastic. Xyl put some thought into his posting, but I think he thought his reasons for switching to lovo sounded better than they do. He definitely fits the smart scum MO.

Jerubbaal, it seems you have something against me, but not relevantly related to the game or your defense. You say I don't say anything "original", which is largely discutable, by the way, but would you say so if I wanted to lynch SF instead? Looks like it's a rant out of spite because you are on the brink of being lynched...

Joubert · Post Post #742 (isolation #39) » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:04 pm

Jerubbaal, we don't know if you're Town or not... That's why...

Joubert · Post Post #784 (isolation #40) » Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:43 pm

Battle Mage, it seems like the only thing you want to do is to beat the system from the outside... This is boring...

Joubert · Post Post #786 (isolation #41) » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:15 pm

In other words, if we lynch Jerubbaaaaaal, we are all stupid dumbasses, but if we lynch SF, we are all honorable geniuses... Is that it, Jerub?

Joubert · Post Post #805 (isolation #42) » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:58 am

That is poor sportmanship and ethically wrong at best, and cheating at worst. I wouldn't ever play this way.

I second that...

Joubert · Post Post #816 (isolation #43) » Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:16 pm

So the only way to go is SensFan breaking his PR... Strange...

Joubert · Post Post #819 (isolation #44) » Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:27 am

FoS: BattleMage

, for no apparent reason...

Joubert · Post Post #822 (isolation #45) » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:35 pm

I swept from post 475, and I get this count:

SensFan (2) -- Jerubbaal, CES
Jerubbaal (4) -- SensFan, Korts, Joubert, Cavebear

Joubert · Post Post #827 (isolation #46) » Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:19 pm

FoS: Shanba

, for an apparent reason...

Joubert · Post Post #840 (isolation #47) » Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:02 pm

So the Mod becomes the 13th player...

Joubert · Post Post #846 (isolation #48) » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:34 pm

FoS: BattleMage

, because he pisses me off...

Joubert · Post Post #873 (isolation #49) » Fri May 02, 2008 1:16 pm

What would it mean if SF can't break his PR? And how are we supposed to know he could/couldn't?

Joubert · Post Post #879 (isolation #50) » Sun May 04, 2008 11:09 am

We could ask Jerub what else we can do, but his only suggestion is to lynch SF...
So let's suppose we lynch SF...
What could we do after?
What's left?

Joubert · Post Post #883 (isolation #51) » Mon May 05, 2008 2:05 pm

jerubbaal wrote:I currently see two options - lynch me or make SF break his PR. If he refuses to break his PR, he must be scum and we lynch him.

The problem is, he may not be able to do it. Or maybe he doesn't know how. I don't know either. Anyways, I'm against this kind of play...

Joubert · Post Post #890 (isolation #52) » Tue May 06, 2008 9:28 am

FoS: Shanba

, for being a jerk...

Joubert · Post Post #894 (isolation #53) » Tue May 06, 2008 2:26 pm

FoSHoAWTFROFLOMGLoLKFCPHPBBQ: Jerubbaal

...
I think the deadline was extended...

Joubert · Post Post #905 (isolation #54) » Thu May 08, 2008 9:02 am

Pfff...

Joubert · Post Post #907 (isolation #55) » Fri May 09, 2008 4:07 pm

So we need a majority or unanimity?

Joubert · Post Post #933 (isolation #56) » Sun May 11, 2008 4:19 pm

SensFan wrote:This post earns me a private warning. Next time my PR is broken during the game, I lose my ability to investigate the following night. Third break of my PR costs me my Cop powers permanently.

Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:Not buying it. I see absolutely no reason for you to be so resistant if your first break leads to just a private warning.
Vote SensFan

Wait wait wait...
CES, are you implying that SensFan is allowed to lie about an interaction with the MOD?
Sounds almost like cheating...

Joubert · Post Post #964 (isolation #57) » Tue May 13, 2008 9:50 am

Is there any plan B for if we lose the Cop?

Joubert · Post Post #984 (isolation #58) » Wed May 14, 2008 1:17 pm

I see... Because I prefer to mirror the vagueness of other's FoSes (in the hope they will catch the critic between the lines) instead of simply rolling my eyes, I am being suspected. Quite strange...

I did a quick sweep of CES's posts from page 25 (post 600) up to now. I could not find anything convincing about why CES thinks No Lynch is not a good option. Doing that, I collected some details I forgot about earlier. He said that Scum probably have a roleblocker, but this was not discussed further, and there's nothing that could imply this anywhere. Yet, this is one of the possible reasons why at least two people (CES and Jerubbaal) think the Cop would be useless. I figure it's from this deduction they want to lynch him, in addition to...

The credibility of his PR. From my review, I could interpret CES's reasoning as follow. First, he states he doesn't like the idea of breaking a PR (and I think so, I don't think PR's should be broken). Quickly after, he changes his mind, says (although he doesn't like it) SF should break his PR. And he kept defending this idea up to now. Then, assuming SF doesn't want to break his PR, SF is more suspected than ever, even though maybe he doesn't know how, or maybe he can't, or maybe he's not allowed to break it. Nevertheless, he's still being tagged as heavy Scum for that...

So I'm going for the No Lynch as well. We'll get some information from the Night and we won't lynch haphazardly today...

Vote: No Lynch

Joubert · Post Post #989 (isolation #59) » Thu May 15, 2008 9:05 pm

We are a even number of people right now (10), but if someone is lynched, we become odd (9), so we either leave someone alone or arrange a triangle blockade...

Joubert · Post Post #995 (isolation #60) » Fri May 16, 2008 9:34 am

That's right, triangles don't work. So are we planning to have an even or odd number of people this Night?
If we want an even number of people, then we must No Lynch...

Joubert · Post Post #999 (isolation #61) » Fri May 16, 2008 3:09 pm

I thought we were 10 people right now...

Joubert · Post Post #1013 (isolation #62) » Mon May 19, 2008 3:58 pm

I don't agree with a Joubert lynch, mostly because the chain of events that lead to this idea has no foundation whatsoever, so I thought that it would be better to cut it short instead...

First, Shanba says I'm getting more "useless" out of the blue (without any explanation as to why or where), not realizing that he could be tagged the same. Then CES followed nonchalantly, without any precision either. The only thing that comes to mind is because of all the things I recollected from his past posts (that could reveal interesting in the future). Next is Jerubbaal, without anything relevant again, but hit was more predictable since he could be on the verge of death anytime soon...

So that's the chain of events so far. I don't think it's worth it...

Joubert · Post Post #1025 (isolation #63) » Thu May 22, 2008 7:06 pm

Cavebear wrote:Fair enough, but I don't see myself as a "logical choice for a jeru partner". I saw myself as one of the loudest proclaimers of a jerub lynch all day (until just recently), and not someone "following along". Consider this an "I object to deciding who SF should investigate." That person would be the obvious target tonight.

I agree to that. But what made you change your mind about Jerub's lynch?

Joubert · Sun May 25, 2008 11:30 am

Usually, Mods are encouraged to keep a backup Mod in case he's unavailable...

Joubert · Post Post #1045 (isolation #65) » Mon May 26, 2008 9:42 am

Hmmm, I thought Mafia Scum was a game. You know, where it's supposed to be fun. Rule #1...

Do you people mean that if a game doesn't end soon enough, you're not up to it? Looks like a kid's attitude to me. And I don't see the connection between Lovo's death and the game being killed by a Mod. Is it such a chore to "play" Mafia or what? If you don't like the game, don't sign up, that's it...

Joubert · Post Post #1057 (isolation #66) » Thu May 29, 2008 3:33 pm

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Damn you, Khelvaster, DAMN YOU!

Joubert · Post Post #1070 (isolation #67) » Fri May 30, 2008 9:48 am

Not only the roles were fucked over, I was the element that could have messed up the roleblocks even more...

I was the Serial Killer!

Ha! The only thing I've been waiting for in this game is to imagine your faces of disbelief when you realize that the roleblock chain was all broken because of me...

Joubert · Fri May 30, 2008 12:07 pm

I was thinking that my kill could redistribute the action chain in a way that I end up at the end of the chain. Since there would have been an odd number of blocked everything in the chain would have shifted and I (and possibly the Mafia also) would be left unblocked at the end of the chain. But it's also possible that I didn't understand the card stack concept at all...