Mini 551- Mod Abandoned

[Xylthixlm]

/confirm

Side note: I'm amazed, there's an action resolution system more complicated than mine...

[Xylthixlm]

santa watchers?

[Xylthixlm]

how long til start..whose left to confirm?

The moderator.

[Xylthixlm]

Vote: SensFan

because I rolled an 8 and/or because he flaked out of another game I was in.

[Xylthixlm]

I

absolutely despise

post restrictions.

Fortunately, I'm already voting SensFan.

[Xylthixlm]

Uh, question. Do PRs last for the whole game?

Not if we lynch him.

SensFan: Can you talk about your post restriction? 'Y' or 'N'.
Can you make votes that aren't on actual players?
Can you make votes of more than one letter?

[Xylthixlm]

I wouldn't take that bet. This is supposedly a mini normal. I don't expect to see a post restriction, especially not one as kooky as SensFan's.

CES, what do you think we should do if he

is

faking?

[Xylthixlm]

@XYLaefhdgdafligfd

that's some evil thoughts there.
BTW can i call you Xyl cuz all those characters make no sense to me

Xyl is fine.

What part of my thoughts struck you as evil?

[Xylthixlm]

Wait, what? SensFan is voting himself?

[Xylthixlm]

Nope, I don't see a vote. I guess he

does

have a post restriction.

unvote

[Xylthixlm]

He can't talk about it but it appears that he can pantomime.

[Xylthixlm]

I went back and looked at SensFan's last "speaking" vote, and it was an S. I guess the mod's taking that as a Vote: SensFan. I think I would have laughed my a** off if he lynched himself trying to do that.

Aha! You mean all we have to do is get him to L-1 and wait for him to accidentally hammer himself?

I was thinking that the self-vote was punishment for violating the PR, but your explanation makes more sense. Which means the PR is probably faked, and faking a PR is something only scum have a reason to do.

Vote: SensFan

[Xylthixlm]

Well, let's think of what the PR would have to look like.

* You can mime.
* You can vote for single letters.
* You can't vote for anything longer than a single letter, unless it's a real player.

I can accept having to mime as a possible post restriction.

Having to spell out your words with votes is a bit less believable; it's really annoying, and I don't see why it would allow single letters but not whole words.

Being able to do

both

is just plain silly. I can't imagine any mod giving a post restriction that lets you choose from two, equally nonrestrictive, means of expression. I also can't imagine why you would start out using the

more

annoying form (repeated votes) if mime was an option.

In short, even if I believed that there might be a post restriction in a mini normal, the specific restriction you have claimed is totally incredible. Since a protown player wouldn't have any reason to fake a post restriction, you must be scum.

[Xylthixlm]

As far as I know, he's at 4 votes (L-3); I think you missed my unvote earlier.

If he is faking, and he stops, it will prove he was faking. If that happens he had better have an

extremely

good excuse.

[Xylthixlm]

Well, now that you've stated that he's in trouble big time if he's faking, he just won't stop faking it.

I think the chance that he stops faking is pretty much zero anyways. Holding back my opinions - or worse, lying through my teeth, like CESc is doing - wouldn't help.

Speaking of which, CESc, I

assume

that you are in fact lying through your teeth. If you really think that townies fake post restrictions all the time, though, please provide an example so I can take you off my list of people to lynch tomorrow.

[Xylthixlm]

Yes, I remember those, but if you play at MtgS, you might also remember Arimnaes in Matrix Mafia, Xyre in 24 Mafia or Axelrod in Elegant Mafia. Really, it happens, and no less than scum faking them. Sometimes because they want to achieve something with it, sometimes because they think it's fun or because they want to get the game moving, and try to stimulate discussion. Really there are multiple reasons why one would want to fake such a restriction.

Wow, I've never heard of a townie faking a post restriction before. That seems... odd. The impression I've gotten from reading games here is that people who fake post restrictions are almost always scum. Although, given how much negative attention it attracts, I'm surprised scum bother.

It's pretty much a cornerstone of play, though, that town has more to gain from accurate information than scum do. Faking a post restriction deprives the town of accurate information, by misleading players about the setup

and

cutting down contribution from the player faking it. There are almost no circumstances I can think of where it would be a good protown move.

How exactly was I lying through my teeth?

I was assuming you were trying to get SensFan to admit it's fake. It never crossed my mind that you could actually believe that he might be faking but still town.

By the way... have you noticed that, despite protesting "I can contribute", SensFan's only actual contribution to discussion is an OMGUS vote on me?

[Xylthixlm]

Tomorrow? Are you sure you wanna lynch SensFan just because he has or is possibly faking a very bad PR? I think that's scummy, to say the least.

Chance that he is faking: High.
Chance that he is scum if he is faking: Very high.
Chance that he will be helpful if he is not faking: Low.
Benefit of lynching him compared to any other player: High.

[Xylthixlm]

I'm unsure what to think of the PR. I think the fact that voting one letter has effectively counted as votes says something, but I'm not sure what. I mean, why would the vote count just because of the first letter, unless the PR was real?

I thought that too, but it seems like SensFan doesn't understand that part either. That seems to rule out it being part of the PR.

[Xylthixlm]

It says in the player list that matimafia is playing, but I don't see any posts, not even a /confirm. theopor_COD hasn't posted since confirming.

Mod, could you prod them please?

[Xylthixlm]

I don't get it. You thought I wanted SensFan to admit it was fake, which, because you didn't believe a townies would fake a PR, would catch us a scum, yet you think it's a point against me? I'm not completely following you here.

CESc admits to lying --> null tell. (There's a reason for a townie to do it, but I oppose lying in general.)
CESc doesn't admit to lying, doesn't provide evidence --> scum tell.
CESc doesn't admit to lying, provides evidence --> I get confused.

[Xylthixlm]

How is lynching SensFan helpful to town? As far as I can tell, that's nothing more than a OMGPRS lynch. Yes, it's annoying, but he hasn't actually done anything scummy unless you can prove he's actually faking his PR.

He hasn't done anything

helpful

either! He hasn't even tried to look for scum.

SensFan's complete contributions this game:

"HI ALL"
"I ALSO HATE THEM"

SensFan clasps his hand over his mouth while holding up one finger, then nods his head forward-and backwards once while holding up two fingers, then side-to-side once while holding up three fingers.

"I CAN VOTE PLAYERS JUST NOT WORDS"

SensFan clasps his hand ever his mouth.

SensFan looks as confused as Xylthixlm and Elias.

SensFan slaps his head a few times. Looking into space for a minute, he finally breaks into a grin. He pulls his hands out, and begins to form a box around himself, defining the walls by seemingly pressing his palms against them.

SensFan looks extremely pleased.

"ALL THESE VOTES FOR A PR"
"TEST X"
"WHY THINK FAKE"
"I CAN NOT TALK"
"WORDS TO EASY"

SensFan starts randomly voting people, then pauses. After thinking for a few minutes, he begins to act out his thoughts, charade-style.

SensFan shakes head side-to-side frantically. SensFan clasps his hand over his mouth, then immediately uses the provided voting signs to communicate, filling out 26 of them with a single letter. He does this for a while, and when people begin to get frustrated, he pauses, looks annoyed and begins to think. Then he puts down the signs, and starts to mime his actions.

SensFan forms an invisible box around himself. Then he pretends to climb a set of stairs, then he folds his legs, as if sitting on an invisible chair.

"I CAN CONTRIBUTE"
"I DIDNT OMGUS"

SensFan looks awfully depressed, slumping down onto a non-existent chair.

"HOW CAN I PROVE IT"

I see a lot of defensiveness, and attempts to explain his post restriction. I see zero discussion of other players. Even

without

the post restriction, I would be very suspicious of SensFan for not scumhunting at all.

[Xylthixlm]

CESc has a point. I mean, what you're trying to say is you thought CESc was asking SF to admit to being scum? Cos in your opinion, as far as I gather, faking a PR can only mean that he's scum, so if he admits to faking, he admits to being scum.

And you really thought that SF would admit to faking if he was scum?

Great idea! Hey all you scum, raise your hands, please!

I think the chance that he stops faking is pretty much zero anyways.

Holding back my opinions - or worse, lying through my teeth, like CESc is doing - wouldn't help.

FOS: Korts

for building a strawman argument that is directly contradicted by what I've previously said.

[Xylthixlm]

All this being said, we should at least get a claim before we really push for the lynch.

So do you think that we shouldn't lynch him unless he claims? That doesn't seem like a very good strategy.

[Xylthixlm]

Wow. I hate the idea of metagaming the moderator but... either Khelvaster is extraordinarily confused, or his reaction proves that SensFan is not really a cop.

Vote stands.

[Xylthixlm]

I'm referring to the edited post. If SensFan was the cop, Khelvaster would have realized that SensFan's post was supposed to be a claim. The fact that he didn't, and in fact thought that SensFan was trying to vote the cop (an unlikely interpretation if SensFan

is

the cop!), indicates that SensFan isn't what he says... or that Khelvaster has totally forgotten SensFan's role.

[Xylthixlm]

Assume SensFan is the cop. Read Khelvaster's post. Do you understand why he got confused?
Assume SensFan isn't the cop. Read Khelvaster's post. Do you understand why he got confused?

[Xylthixlm]

It seems like many people don't want a SensFan lynch today. That puzzles me, but ok. Time for an analysis.

Cogito Ergo Scum

: Suggests lynching SensFan even if he isn't faking. Maintains that townies often fake PRs. I'm not so sure about those two parts, but otherwise, seems to be consistently protown in attitude.

Elias_the_Thief

: Assumes SensFan is faking his PR. Seems confused by SensFan's miscounted self-vote. Changes direction on the mod confusion issue (first he says it shows SensFan isn't a cop, then he says he's confused, then suggests leaving SensFan until tomorrow). Doesn't strike me as particularly town or scum.

jerubaal

: Pushes the SensFan lynch. Asks an interesting question about SensFan's PR, which never really gets answered. No strong read here either.

Joubert

: One random vote, one post which doesn't really add anything to the discussion. Might need replacement.

Khelvaster

: Obviously scum.

Korts

: Says that if SensFan's PR is faked, he's obviously scum. Doubletalks about whether it's possibly faked. Opposes SensFan lynch on the basis that he might be protown (newbie scum seem to make this argument a lot). Suggests a counter of SensFan's cop claim, which would expose the real cop for a nightkill. Overall, very scummy.

FOS: Korts

lovo14

: Very little contribution. Opposes SensFan lynch without explaining reason. Raises Usurper for no reason I can tell. Also scummy.

matimafia

: Hasn't posted at all, not even to confirm.

Mod, we need a replacement.

theopor_COD

: Hasn't posted since confirming.

Mod, we need a prod and/or replacement.

ting =)

: Says we shouldn't lynch SensFan, then votes him in the same post. Promptly unvotes because he doesn't really want to lynch him(?!). Gives an interesting explaination for SensFan's PR which makes me think he and SensFan aren't scum together. Questions the SensFan wagon, apparently forgetting that he was on it. Uncertain, leaning town.

Overall I think the scummiest players are SensFan, Korts, and lovo14 in that order.

[Xylthixlm]

I somehow thought that I had talked enough about SensFan, but since you ask:

SensFan

: Has made a lot of posts, but hasn't given any opinions on other players or otherwise looked for scum. Claims a post restriction, which is very unlikely in a normal game. I'd think he was scummy for his lack of content, even without the post restriction; together they me almost certain he's scum.

[Xylthixlm]

Isn't 'not doing anything protown' scummy? At least I think it is.

Not to me. It just means that I can't be certain he's town, but I'm not willing to jump to the conclusion that he's scum just because I'm not absolutely sure he's town.

"Not doing anything protown"

is

scummy. One of the best ways of separating scum from town is to see if their actions match their claimed motivations. Someone who claims to be town, but does nothing to advance the town's cause, should draw attention.

You're right that you shouldn't lynch just because you aren't absolutely sure someone is town; but you shouldn't

not

lynch just because you aren't absolutely sure someone is scum! The best strategy is almost always to lynch the person you think is

most likely

to be scum... even if that's less than their chance of being town.

[Xylthixlm]

How's not agreeing with you scummy?

If not agreeing with me was scummy, I wouldn't have a town read on ting.

You know, you're right that a counterclaim would do us no good, but lynching the claimed cop doesn't give him even a chance to prove his claim. I know I did ask whether we should wait for a counterclaim, but I didn't think about the consequences. Sorry, my bad.

Either that, or you did think about the consequences and did it anyways.

If we don't lynch SF, he might be NK-ed, but if he isn't, he's scum, as far as I'm concerned.

So all the scum have to do is not kill him, and you'll lynch him tomorrow. We get one confirmed cop inspect out of him if he's town, but then we have to lynch someone else today (most suspects, less info) instead of tomorrow (fewer suspects, more info). And then you pull out the same logic again, and we keep not lynching him, and he skates to endgame.

I dunno really, I may be newbie, but if he's town and we lynch him, it's still a step towards losing regardless of his contribution.

The logical conclusion of reusing to lynch someone because they might be town is for the town to not lynch

anyone

, because on day one you can't be sure someone isn't town. Then we go to night, the scum kill, and we're back at the same situation with no more information and one fewer townie. Eventually, the scum wins.

And I just don't understand the doubletalk comment.

Well, let's look at the comment I linked.

I'm trying to say that I'm, for now, convinced that he's not faking. I admit that there's a fair possibility that he is, but I don't think so, at the moment.

Here you take both sides of the issue. You say you're convinced isn't, but if it turns out that he is, you can come back later and say "Oh, but I admitted there's a possibility that he is". That tells me that you don't really believe what you're saying, and want some insurance.

Likewise, Xyl, my top suspect is you, followed by CESc: your reasons amount to "SF can't say anything of value, so let's get rid of him, and anyway he's faking until he proves otherwise" which in my opinion is probably impossible to prove.

This is most definitely

not

my position. My position is that he could say things of value, but doesn't. If you're going to try to paint me as scummy for something I said, at least do it for something I

actually said

.

[Xylthixlm]

All I was trying to say is that I'm not a hundred percent sure, just pretty convinced. Nothing wrong in being politically correct, is there?

You call it "being politically correct". I call it a scumtell.

well, maybe you're right and I was wrong. But still, those last two quotes are pretty under the belt for SF, if not scummy. Maybe it was CESc after all who wanted to lynch cos he wouldn't say anything valuable to us.

In other words, you've been arguing that I'm scum for a false reason. So why are you still arguing? It looks like you started with the goal of creating a counterwagon on me, and then went looking for reasons.

What you haven't answered:

how can he prove the PR?

He can't, and I've never expected him to.

[Xylthixlm]

Why hasn't SensFan been lynched yet?

[Xylthixlm]

ugh. im still really conflicted on this SF issue. The only townie who ive seen fake a PR WAS my brother, who just does stuff like that. I dont really know SF to have a reputation, so I cant say whether theyd fake as town. Im pretty sure the PR isnt legit though.

A few instances of townies faking post restrictions do not change the fact that

most

players who fake PRs are scum.

[Xylthixlm]

yeah, but that doesnt actually change the likelihood of SF saying to himself "hmm, ill fuck with these guys by having a PR". Its still just as possible either way.

The question is: Do you think that SensFan would be more likely to fake a post restriction as scum than he would be as town? If the answer is "yes", then him faking a post restriction is evidence (not proof, but evidence) that he is scum.

To calculate exactly how much evidence it provides, we can use Bayes's formula. If SensFan starts with a 25% chance of being scum (about average for a game this size), and is three times more likely to fake a post restriction as scum than he is as town, then his probability of being scum given only that he fakes a post restriction - and no other info about his play - is 50%. If he is ten times more likely to fake as scum than as town, his chance of being scum on just that information jumps to 77%.

I really don't believe that townies fake post restrictions anywhere near as often as scum do. I'm also reasonably confident that SensFan is faking his. Thus, on that evidence alone, I can conclude that SensFan is more likely than not to be scum, and definitely a better lynch than any other player. The fact that his play is highly scummy even without the PR only increases my confidence.

[Xylthixlm]

yeah, but that doesnt actually change the likelihood of SF saying to himself "hmm, ill fuck with these guys by having a PR". Its still just as possible either way.

There is

no way

anyone would do that as a cop.

Really, he either is a cop with a pr, or he's scum, and since we're in a mini normal and because SF hasn't really done anything protown, I'm 99% sure it's the latter.

This argument is good too.

[Xylthixlm]

if hes already just screwing with the town, theres no reason he wouldnt just claim cop to mess us up more. On the other hand, he may have claimed cop because hes scum who feels hes about to be lynched and wanted to draw a counterclaim.

Playing around people who are deliberately trying to sabotage the game is futile. I doubt we would see a person like that on this site, though.

Your second conjecture is much more likely.

[Xylthixlm]

I'm not saying they don't exist. I'm saying that "he might be trying to sabotage the game" is a bad argument for not voting someone. It's pretty much the same argument as "he might be a Jester".

[Xylthixlm]

Also, "sure that they're scum" is

far

too high a bar for voting, especially on day 1.

[Xylthixlm]

I don't like the way lovo14 is trying to use the lack of counterclaim to argue that SensFan is town. It's possible that there is no cop. If there is a cop, it would be quite stupid for them to counterclaim.

As for SensFan not being scummy except for the PR... have you not been reading the arguments? His has made quite a few posts, but didn't do

any

scumhunting until he was called on it. In other words, he wasn't trying to help the town.

[Xylthixlm]

@jerubbaal: well lynch SF, then. But I'm not gonna vote for him. Not until there's a better reason than a shitty PR and a claim that can go either way.

You are still completely ignoring the argument that he is not acting protown.

Korts, I have a question for you: Who do you think is more likely to be scum than SensFan?

[Xylthixlm]

You are still completely ignoring the argument that he is not acting protown.

What does "acting protown" constitute to you? How would you contribute with a PR he supposedly has? Do elaborate.

One of the differences between the town POV and the scum POV is that townies are searching, while scum are hiding. That means that townies tend to dig for info, look at various players, and give opinions. Scum tend to avoid digging or giving opinions, for fear that it will draw attention.

It's not a perfect tell, of course. There are people who always act apathetic, and people who are good at acting town when they're scum. Still, it's the most reliable way I know of separating scum from town on day 1.

The interesting thing about SensFan is that he

has

made quite a few posts. If he could contribute that much to defend himself, why didn't he contribute anything to try to find scum until after people started criticizing him for it?

[Xylthixlm]

Korts, why aren't you considering the possibility that lovo and SensFan are scumbuddies?

[Xylthixlm]

I'll wait for our absentees to be replaced, but other than that I don't think there's much further info to get out of the day.

[Xylthixlm]

matimafia and theopor_COD still haven't posted. matimafia's last post sitewide was Jan 28, while theopor_COD's was Jan 27.

[Xylthixlm]

But there's no actual harm in giving him another day. If he's really the cop, shouldn't we let him have at least the first night to investigate?

There's some benefit in giving him a night to investigate... but I'm not going to trust his results unless, and until, he is lynched and comes up town.

As for the harm in giving him another day if he is scum, it's really simple. If he's scum, we lynch one scum by lynching him either today or tomorrow. But if we lynch him today, tomorrow's lynch will be made with more information and fewer players to choose from, so we have a better chance of lynching a

second

scum in those two days.

[Xylthixlm]

hes been unvoting and voting letters to spell out messages to me.

You mean like

secret

messages? Or the things like "doesn't need to" (post 267) or "good posting" (post 260)? Why'd he need to unvote then? Khel already said he won't count single letters as votes for the person whose name starts with that letter. Do explain, please.

Secret messages? There are so many things wrong with that accusation, I don't even know where to start.

[Xylthixlm]

@xyl, I'm sorry if that sounded like an accusation, I was just merely pointing out that there was no point in unvoting and revoting if the supposed issue was voting letters. Just curious.

Why would you even raise the

possibility

of secret messages unless you think that SensFan and Elias_the_Thief might be scum together? It sure looks like an attempt to cast suspicion to me.

[Xylthixlm]

I see what you're saying but I don't think it carries enough weight to make the lynch worth it. Even if we lynch a townie today we get plenty of information.

We get information, but we can't use it tomorrow, because we'll be lynching SensFan tomorrow. Or do you mean that we shouldn't lynch SensFan at all?

[Xylthixlm]

Well, I don't see it as a done deal. I think it's likely that SensFan will be lynched tomorrow, but I don't think it's necessarily the case.

That's why we need to lynch him today. I'll go even crazier if I have to put up with a second day arguing over such an obvious scum.

[Xylthixlm]

Wake me when we've lynched SensFan.

[Xylthixlm]

I'm sorry, but I don't see lynching SF as a pro-town cause. We may be wasting valuable information from his N1 investigation, if he hasn't been lying. I, for one, would like to hear what he has to say to us tomorrow, even if we have to decide whether to believe him or not. He hasn't been useless so far, and I think if he really is the cop, we should let him contribute. If he isn't cop, he'll slip up anyway.

If you don't want to lynch SensFan, why don't I see you pushing a case on someone else?

[Xylthixlm]

Fine. Wake me when we've lynched SensFan, or when there is a bandwagon on someone else.

[Xylthixlm]

1) SensFan is scum.
2) Lynching SensFan will give a lot of very interesting information about the people who are, and aren't, on his bandwagon.
3) Not lynching SensFan will put us right back in the same position tomorrow.

If you can convince me that someone else is scummier than SensFan, I'll change my vote. In the meanwhile, all this "SensFan is scum" "No he isn't" is completely useless. A number of people need to either vote SensFan, or find someone scummier. Simply arguing against the lynch accomplishes

nothing

for the town.

[Xylthixlm]

Now to see who's willing to hammer. Might prove interesting.

Yeah, like it's out of the question that scum are already voting for him, having seen the easy kill. I'm not voting him.

You say that as if you're certain SensFan is town.

[Xylthixlm]

No, I'm saying that either way, scum could already be on the wagon.

In that case, I fail to see the logical connection between "Yeah, like it's out of the question that scum are already voting for him, having seen the easy kill." and "I'm not voting him."

[Xylthixlm]

I agree with a lovo14 lynch, but not as much as I agree with a SensFan lynch.

[Xylthixlm]

If he's scum, therefore... well, therefore scum, it is more than probable that once his scumbuddies saw the pressure building up on him, they thought it would be wisest to throw him under the bus and live to die another day. Therefore, again, we learn nothing from the hammer or who voted him.

If he's scum, we get rid of a scumbag. You don't think that's worth a lynch?

Therefore, I'm against his lynch unless we have more to go on than a possibly faked PR, little contribution, and a premature, unwarranted claim.

Sounds like plenty of reason for a vote to me.

[Xylthixlm]

honestly id like to see a lynch sooner rather than later cause this day has dragged on forever, well by my standards anyway.

You say that, but I don't see you doing anything to move us towards a lynch.

[Xylthixlm]

u did get the intended reaction. i was happy with staying quiet til day 2.

Translation: "I would rather be lurking."

@xyth....id rather not do the finger pointing on day 1 as there is so little to go on.

"I don't want to hunt scum."

id chance a guess that scum is one of the more active talkers today. i doubt it is the people who are staying quiet.. there thats my opinion. its a generalisation but in my exp its usually wat happens.

"I think we should lynch an active player and leave the lurkers alone."

FoS: lovo14

If we can't get a hammer on SensFan, I know where my vote is going.

[Xylthixlm]

PBPA of lovo14:

0

confirm

1

pregame chatter

2

pregame chatter

3

random vote on Elias

4

defense of SensFan because he wouldn't fake a PR. FOS of me for pushing SensFan.

5

same defense of SensFan again

6

stance suddenly changes to "still not sure" of SensFan

7

defense SensFan because there hasn't been a counterclaim. votes CESc for pushing SensFan.

8

argues that CESc is scum because he's raising suspicion

9

request for vote count

10

wonders if SensFan is a jester faking a PR. unvotes CESc for no apparent reason.

11

brings back earlier defense of SensFan, except now he doesn't think a counterclaim would matter. raises possibility of SensFan being an insane cop with a post restriction.

12

wonders why he's getting attention. changes his stance on a counterclaim. seems worried that he might look scummy.

13

assumes that the roleblocker is town, then worries about a scum roleblocker. wtf?

14

asks for the case on SensFan.

15

FOSs cavebear for voting him. advocates a quick lynch....

16

... but not a quick lynch on SensFan. says he was trying to lurk. says lurkers are usually town.

17

defends his previous post. asks if he needs to claim.

Wow. Deliberate lurking, worrying over whether he looks scummy, discouraging discussion, refusing to make a case on anyone? That's practically a list of all the scumtells I look for on day 1. I'm now certain that lovo14 is scum. His defense of SensFan is really interesting - it makes it look like he knows SensFan is town, and is trying to get townie points by defending him. If lovo comes up scum I may need to rethink on SensFan.

unvote, vote lovo14

That should be L-1.

[Xylthixlm]

I wasn't expecting a hammer

that

fast.

[Xylthixlm]

Guys? Between the lynch and when the thread is closed, anything you say helps the scum more than it helps the town.

[Xylthixlm]

Well, that was unexpected. Two dead roleblockers. I'm another roleblocker, and I'm guessing CESc is one as well. That suggests that we might have an all-roleblocker (or almost-all-roleblocker) setup - and I think it might be breakable.

[Xylthixlm]

I blocked Korts.

[Xylthixlm]

That depends on whether anyone blocked me...

[Xylthixlm]

With this many roleblockers, it's not a surprise for the town to have a cop. The surprise would be giving that cop a PR - after all, having so many roleblockers around is enough of a handicap.

[Xylthixlm]

In most games, I'd say "of course", but there's a chance that the mod has done something to stop the obvious breaking strategy. Of course, if he

hasn't

...

[Xylthixlm]

Normally the scum choose one person to make the kill, and you only have to block that person.

[Xylthixlm]

jerubbaal: No need to get complicated on the breaking strategy. Whenever you have a large number of identical roles, the correct solution is usually to either circle them or pair them.

[Xylthixlm]

Shanba is V/LA.

[Xylthixlm]

Khelvaster needs to learn to not explain himself in detail as a mod. He just confirmed that circling would be a breaking strategy if blocks were public. That means that the scum aren't roleblock immune. And

that

means that pairing is a breaking strategy.

So: Pair off all the players except SensFan and one other. Lynch SensFan. Each player blocks the player they're paired with. That way, the night kill is guaranteed to be blocked, unless either the unpaired player is scum or two scum are paired together.

[Xylthixlm]

Say A and B are paired. Come night, A blocks B, and B blocks A.

Now assume A is scum, and tries to kill instead of blocking. Now B is blocking him, and no one is blocking B. So there is no kill. The same logic applies if B is scum.

The net result is that the scum can't kill at night unless two of them happen to get paired with each other. That's a huge advantage for the town.

[Xylthixlm]

We don't lynch anyone until everyone has (a) checked in and (b) claimed their roleblock.

[Xylthixlm]

I think that the presence of so many roleblockers here is another mark against SensFan. It's worth leaving him alive (if he's scum, he'll reveal himself pretty quickly), but we definitely shouldn't just follow his result for today.

[Xylthixlm]

Honestly, I don't think there's any way we can lose this unless there are 4 or 5 scum.

[Xylthixlm]

Xyl, honestly - leaving him alive but not following his results is just about the worst option. Why did you think it would be a good idea?

I'm seriously considering the no lynch option. No lynch repeatedly, and when he has results on everyone, lynch him and see if he was a cop.

[Xylthixlm]

Going by the first post...
CESc - jerubbaal
Joubert - korts
Imat & SensFan unpaired
Shanba - ting =)
Cavebear with a Toothache - Xylthixlm

[Xylthixlm]

Korts, compare my pairings to the list of living players in the first post. See a pattern?

[Xylthixlm]

"Cop with post restriction" is definitely not a normal role. Then again, there can be unusual roles in normal games, as long as they're not too common.

Personally, I would say that an all-roleblocker setup

is

too strange to be in a normal game, but that's what we've got.

[Xylthixlm]

I'd prefer a SensFan lynch over a Jerubbaal lynch, because I am simply unable to believe that Khelvaster would put SensFan's role in this setup. I don't think it really matters how we make the pairings; if the scum kill, we can use that plus the pairings to flush them out almost immediately.

[Xylthixlm]

I find it odd that the scum didn't block the cop.

[Xylthixlm]

Lynch Jerubbaal.

If Jerubbaal is scum:
Cogito Ergo Scum - Xylthixlm
Shanba - Korts
Joubert - Imat
ting =) - Cavebear with a Toothache
SensFan unpaired

If Jerubbaal isn't scum:
SensFan - Xylthixlm
Shanba - Korts
Joubert - Imat
ting =) - Cavebear with a Toothache
Cogito Ergo Scum unpaired