Mini 546: House Mafia - Game Over

[TrustGossip]

Vote: TheJiveMachine

It's been more than 72 hours since you've promised content. I'm sorry but my patience is exhausted.

FOS: Erg0

[TrustGossip]

In response to shaft.ed: I'm gay, what can I say?

Ok seriously though, just because I'm overexcited that people are actually playing the game well doesn't make me a brownnoser.

In addition, what about vollkan is making him a "great scumhunter" as you say? Sure Pooky's argument about his numbers is kind of weak (and a little contrived

Minor FOS: Pooky

) His major caveat in this game is his case against TheJiveMachine, who was the most obvious/weakest target at the time.

I'm sorry vollkan, but I hold you up to a more rigorous amount of inquiry. It's only because you behave consistently pro-town regardless of alignment. I know I am perpetrating the Too Townie fallacy to an extent, but I can't help being wary. If you have an FBI investigator that is fantastic at what he does, upon defection

no one would ever know

.

That being said, I think a vollkan lynch is ill-advised at this stage in the game.

In addition:

A Partial Analysis of Scum-Hunting Strategies Based on Observation and Self-Admission.

Pooky: jabbing at who he believes is "so scum". Observes general reactions. Changes to building a case against vollkan within the last few pages.

armix: "acting as scummy as possible" - this entails the early rally against Pooky and the non-vote against myself. Uses numbers early, tries to establish that Erg0 and I are "safes". Serves as primary jumping board for Adel's second vote gambits. L-1 of Jive proves catalyst for beginning of diagnostic period.

vollkan: Three major periods - 1. Push of a Jive lynch, 2. Continued and prolonged case/argument against Pooky, 3. Reanalysis of all players in the game due to change in the game mechanic.

shaft.ed: Upon Adel/Pooky/armix pressure he responds with 183, enough for Adel to unvote. vollkan also responds positively to this response. Key player along with vollkan and Adel in making Pooky open up. As the heat has died down so has shaft.ed's activity until just now.

Erg0: no recent developments (bad). Has only really ever mentally sparred with Adel and pushed for a Dean wagon.

Adel: long and varied list o- attempt at consolidating: Bandwagons nearly everyone, frequently piggybacking off armix. Strategy changes mid-game as she uses this information to begin the flurry of activity upon Jive and shaft.ed. Currently voting armix.

curious: hunch votes on Pooky and armix. Votes Jive after a wagon is well-established already. Returns to armix vote during diagnostic period.

Dean: absolutely nothing.

TheJiveMachine: no notable hunting, extremely wishy-washy (upon Adel's disapproval of his FOS, he upgrades to a vote soon after).

TrustGossip's current thoughts:

armix (& Adel): Your play was actually pretty decent before your L-1. I'd would like you to return to that level of boldness, as in, what are your current opinions on the rest of the group. I realize there is an urge to pander simply because you are at L-2, but I believe this is important. Also, am I supposed to believe your initial panic post was an overemphasis on your early-game actions? Because your "barning of Pooky and non-vote on TG" is really not equivalent to Adel's actions. I would also like Adel to respond to my partial deconstruction of her argument. In reality it was you who barnacled to curious after armix, and his only barnacling of you was in your wagon against Jive but that was only

after

curious wagoned.

curious: Where is that opinion post that you promised?

To everyone on NLU: I would encourage a few pressure votes against Erg0 and Dean, Erg0 especially because he seems to be extremely active in other games, so his lack of response here is negligent (criminal or otherwise has yet to be determined).

[TrustGossip]

Just what makes you so sure? I'm actually 90% sure you have posted no more reason than your "hunch", unless I missed it.

you havent, this game is in line to do a PbP, however, there are two games in front of this one that I either promised a read (because I replaced in) or a reread..I will get to it when I can...

Apologies, I did not know what a PbP was. Take your time.

[armlx]

TG: I made an analytical post last page. I'll clarify some stuff.

I realize now what I saw in shaft.ed's posts early on was that they seemed to be way too subtly inciting especially post 106. I couldn't put my finger on exactly what it was then, but I knew I saw something.

Volkan I'm saying is town for now, but that simply means he is not a good lynch at all today. Things may change with more discussion, but he has passed the D1 test.

CKD I'm really not liking. I know I'm guilty of this a lot, but it feels like his votes/aggression have just been thrown at wherever the wind is blowing, without any sense of trying to progress discussion with these actions (sometimes its ok to do this, but his seem so awkwardly timed for that purpose). And his over reaction to TG's vote is a massive problem for me (again).

Pooky is being Pooky (from what I remember), which passes the D1 test for me.

TG: I believe you are pro-town because of the progressive knowledge buidling in your posts. Scum usually start at some level of comprehension which tends to show.

Adel I don't know what to think. Like I said, changing play styles infi was a pro-town tell, but my sample size of BJ and Fritz is very biased. Some of the things he does in the name of "prompting discussion" are very sketchy. Like I said, there's a fine line between scummy enough to push discussion and scummy enough to push lynching and Adel has been very close to crossing the line.

Also, before any of the lurkers post, I would like 1 of Adel/CKD to remove their vote from me so we don't have someone coming in and messing up a perfectly good discussion. If someone else votes me they can return their vote to me and lynch, I'ld just rather have someone I feel has had more time analyzing the game making final decisions and what not rather than someone randomly screwing the game up b/c they feel like they need to take some action.

And lurkers need to freaking post

[TrustGossip]

Unfos: Armix

Thank you. I also agree with your assessment of CKD. It was the first time in the game I've used my vote as a weapon in scumhunting and I believe I fished out a satisfactory result.

[curiouskarmadog]

armix, please explain how I over reacted. If you can do that, please explain why over reacting is scummy.

working on a PbP type post now...

[shaft.ed]

Vote: TheJiveMachine

His(vollkan) major caveat in this game is his case against TheJiveMachine, who was the most obvious/weakest target at the time.

This doesn't read as conflicted to you?

As the heat has died down so has shaft.ed's activity until just now.

I was out of town for four days until just now.

[armlx]

so then by saying I put words in Jive's mouth was bull shit? And you already think I am scummy because you have your vote on me, so no reason imply that you think I am scummy....

Why am a scummy exactly? Because I voted on a hunch? How do you know I voted on a hunch, oh yeah, I told you. Scummy indeed.

hey vollkan, does TG's bullshit change his % in your eyes?

sorry for the triple post, but bull shit tends to piss me off.

another question TG, are you saying that my vote on Jive was a BW? So then what is(was) my vote on armix?

Thats a combination of posts 298-300. Also at the tail end of your post before this it starts as well. And the fact it was a triple post implies the posts were extremely hasty, implying an extremely aggressive reaction.

Over reaction is scummy as it implies you have a lot more on the line with the lynch, which a scum would (especially in a nightless game, losing 1 of 2 or 3 members is a much bigger blow than losing one of 7 or 8). It also implies that you are being a lot more wary of single votes on you, which is scummy for the same reasons.

[curiouskarmadog]

so then by saying I put words in Jive's mouth was bull shit? And you already think I am scummy because you have your vote on me, so no reason imply that you think I am scummy....

Why am a scummy exactly? Because I voted on a hunch? How do you know I voted on a hunch, oh yeah, I told you. Scummy indeed.

hey vollkan, does TG's bullshit change his % in your eyes?

sorry for the triple post, but bull shit tends to piss me off.

another question TG, are you saying that my vote on Jive was a BW? So then what is(was) my vote on armix?

Thats a combination of posts 298-300. Also at the tail end of your post before this it starts as well. And the fact it was a triple post implies the posts were extremely hasty, implying an extremely aggressive reaction.

Over reaction is scummy as it implies you have a lot more on the line with the lynch, which a scum would (especially in a nightless game, losing 1 of 2 or 3 members is a much bigger blow than losing one of 7 or 8). It also implies that you are being a lot more wary of single votes on you, which is scummy for the same reasons.

if I should be lynched today..DAY 2 CAN SOMEONE HOLD HIS ASS TO THE FIRE ABOUT THIS. over reacting = scum is crap. It is a stretch in logic to form a case that doesnt exist..."he tripled posted, so he must have more on the line because he is scum"....

you are an experienced player...you cant think of any other reasons people might "overreact"?

If I should hang, I am curious, what you are going to say day 2 when people look over your silly post and want to know if your opinion has changed?

My vote is solid here..anyone you is pushing for a lynch Day 1 using the "oh look, he is over reacting" bit is obviously scum.

when I get more time (for producing a PbP is timely) I will post one.

[armlx]

if I should be lynched today..DAY 2 CAN SOMEONE HOLD HIS ASS TO THE FIRE ABOUT THIS. over reacting = scum is crap. It is a stretch in logic to form a case that doesnt exist..."he tripled posted, so he must have more on the line because he is scum"....

you are an experienced player...you cant think of any other reasons people might "overreact"?

If I should hang, I am curious, what you are going to say day 2 when people look over your silly post and want to know if your opinion has changed?

My vote is solid here..anyone you is pushing for a lynch Day 1 using the "oh look, he is over reacting" bit is obviously scum.

when I get more time (for producing a PbP is timely) I will post one.

There's one other reason I can think of for overreactions, and it's that you are a completely incompetent newbie. You offered to do a PbP, so that is blown out of the water.

Also, it's not even just the triple posts. Did you read what you said in those? It doesn't even make sense, you use the word bull shit actual infi times.

You claim that voting on a hunch isn't scummy b/c you told use you were doing it. Because honesty makes everything better.

You try to rope people doing actual analysis into your emotions.

You try to dismiss claims of BWing by citing one counter example, and your counter example is one of the things TG said was scummy about you.

Your lack of real logic in that post/posts is extremely disturbing. If you were at L-1 and people refused to listen to you, I feel differently. But at 1 vote with no one else looking like they would follow it.....

[curiouskarmadog]

I have been lynched so many times on silly scum driven accusations of overreacting it is not even funny. I play with my emotions to bare. If I find someone pushing a fact or a lynch base on bullshit (inf +1) I call them on it. I “over react” when I get angry. But what I did here was not an overreaction. Believe I can overreact and have done so in other games, but I haven’t here yet.

For every game you can find that scum “overreacted” I can find 3 where scum pushed a case based on an “overreaction”. I assume you have some point of reference where scum overreacted Day 1 and outed himself…care you share that completed game? Also, and this is an important question armix, have you ever as scum claimed that a townie was over reacting to help fuel, push, or start a wagon?

If for some reason I AM hung today, I look forward to reading your back pedal on this issue.

And to be straight, my vote on you has nothing to do with hunches now…

[armlx]

Dear god, if that wasn't an over reaction I would love to see what is.

Scum try to push over reactions on people who have actual reason to over react in order to rush a lynch that's already well on it's way. You were under absolutely no pressure at the point you flipped out.

If you aren't scum CKD, you are playing quite bad. Letting emotion get in the way of logic is not the way to win as town.

Also, please tell me what your vote is based on then. I have asked already, and you have provided no evidence beyond claiming my pointing out your scummy reactions and OMGUSing me.

[curiouskarmadog]

I love how you ignore my questions.

have you ever as scum tried to push that a townie was overreacting to get them lynched? Why are you ignoring that question?

here is another one you are ignoring, is there a completed game where scum overreacted and outed himself that has lead you to believe in this "scum tend to overreact" theory. Why are you ignoring this question?

Please tell me how I am OMGUSing you?..I believe it is the other way around sir.

as for my case...your voting habits, YOUR omgus, your pushing of a completely crap theory (which you cant seem to back up), your avoidance of those questions, when I ask you those question you resort to insult ("you are playing quite bad"), and lastly...my hunch.

[TrustGossip]

If I should hang, I am curious

Ok, I can't help it.

I LOLed.

[curiouskarmadog]

now there is a game full of people here that are not posting..I would love to here some thoughts on armix and my "discussion".

oh god armix, a double post..I must be scum who is flipping out.

[TrustGossip]

Vote: TheJiveMachine

His(vollkan) major caveat in this game is his case against TheJiveMachine, who was the most obvious/weakest target at the time.

This doesn't read as conflicted to you?

Did I imply anything negative about vollkan?

And exactly why is he a presence in most of your posting?

[armlx]

I love how you ignore my questions.

have you ever as scum tried to push that a townie was overreacting to get them lynched? Why are you ignoring that question?

here is another one you are ignoring, is there a completed game where scum overreacted and outed himself that has lead you to believe in this "scum tend to overreact" theory. Why are you ignoring this question?

Please tell me how I am OMGUSing you?..I believe it is the other way around sir.

as for my case...your voting habits, YOUR omgus, your pushing of a completely crap theory (which you cant seem to back up), your avoidance of those questions, when I ask you those question you resort to insult ("you are playing quite bad"), and lastly...my hunch.

Sorry about not posting about older games. I was trying to look before I made a post on those. However, it's been a while since I last played and I'm having difficulty remembering specifics of most games. However, as I said in my last post, the instances where scum pushed overreacting were when there was an established wagon on the person when they over reacted, and when there wasn't one most of the time that person was scum.

You are OMGUSing me as you changed your vote from a hunch vote to a OMG def die scum vote as soon as I pointed out your reaction. I on the other hand never responded to your vote as scummy until you started doing other things that added up, which is not OMGUSing.

Double posting on its own isn't over reacting, however in that situation it clearly was.

[curiouskarmadog]

sweet christ....HAVE YOU AS SCUM pushed the "overreacting bit" on a townie..please quit avoiding the question. Surely you can remeber if you ever done it.

if you can locate the game where you saw scum overreact I would greatly appreciate it...as it stands, you are pushing the overreacting thing, without proving that you have actually seen overreacting scum before. currently it is your theory....or people would call it your "hunch".

I changed my vote because you were pushing the overreacting bit with is completely crap (so far you have not proving that you ahve ever seen overracting scum). I saw this and called you on it. You say "OMGUS", I say I found scum.

"Double posting on its own isn't over reacting, however in that situation it clearly was. "

says you....

[armlx]

sweet christ....HAVE YOU AS SCUM pushed the "overreacting bit" on a townie..please quit avoiding the question. Surely you can remeber if you ever done it.

if you can locate the game where you saw scum overreact I would greatly appreciate it...as it stands, you are pushing the overreacting thing, without proving that you have actually seen overreacting scum before. currently it is your theory....or people would call it your "hunch".

I changed my vote because you were pushing the overreacting bit with is completely crap (so far you have not proving that you ahve ever seen overracting scum). I saw this and called you on it. You say "OMGUS", I say I found scum.

"Double posting on its own isn't over reacting, however in that situation it clearly was. "

says you....

Never to my knowledge as scum have I pushed a lynch with over reacting as my main point. However, I know for a fact I used to as scum over react to scenarios where it was extremely inappropriate. I actually believe I can reference one of these. It was Mafiascum Avatars mafia. There are several more if I actually remembered exactly every game I was ever in.

[Adel]

I still think that both scum are in team LU.

[shaft.ed]

I still think that both scum are in team LU.

You win when all three of the bad doctors are fired.

I think if all three were on a team we'd have at least one lynch by now.

[Erg0]

Erg0 - what kind of a meta read do you have on Jive Machine?

also, why are you so active on mafiascum.net outside of this thread?

I have a long-winded excuse prepared, but I'll skip that and just say that the main reason is that I'm further behind in this game than I am in the others, thus it is taking me longer to catch up to the point where I have something useful to say.

I'm in one other game with Jive, but it's ongoing and he's still alive so it's not super-useful for meta purposes. I will say that his play there is not entirely unlike his play here, though he seems more willing to lead with his vote in that game. His hesitancy in voting both shaft.ed and Pooky is slightly out of character from what I can see.

Jive: To what extent does the size of the wagon affect your decision on whether to use a vote or FoS to express your suspicion of a player?

[TrustGossip]

I have been lynched so many times on silly scum driven accusations of overreacting it is not even funny.

Maybe it would help if you didn't play into their hands with your histrionics. In addition, said behavior hinders town because it's out of the ordinary and would detract from finding scum.

[armlx]

I have been lynched so many times on silly scum driven accusations of overreacting it is not even funny.

Maybe it would help if you didn't play into their hands with your histrionics. In addition, said behavior hinders town because it's out of the ordinary and would detract from finding scum.

Definitely. It's the same thing (albeit less disruptive) as blatantly lying or bandwagonning without purpse all the time and then saying people are scummy for wanting to lynch you when you do. The thing is when everyone else over reacts/ lies/ bandwagons without reason, its a scum tell and you are trying to create a meta situation for you that detracts from the ability of players to create an environment for logical analysis. Theres a reason players who create these scenarios are well known, and its because of their infamy.

[curiouskarmadog]

I have been lynched so many times on silly scum driven accusations of overreacting it is not even funny.

Maybe it would help if you didn't play into their hands with your histrionics. In addition, said behavior hinders town because it's out of the ordinary and would detract from finding scum.

that is all you gathered from our conversation....try taking a stance...is overreacting scummy? was I overreacting? am I scummy?