Mafia 75: Return of the Mafia! TOWN WINS (really late)

[armlx]

Unvote, Vote BattleMage

Claims miller, so we can't cop confirm him, wagons based on someone else's crap logic. Man, back where I was 8 pages ago.

[curiouskarmadog]

so if Battlemage is the Miller, then what armix?

[Nanosauromo]

I highly doubt that there's a Jester.
Please, don't discuss a Jester.
Srsly.

QFT. Few things annoy me more than people suddenly deciding to play the game as if they know for sure there's a Jester.

so if Battlemage is the Miller, then what armix?

If BM does turn up dead and he was indeed the Miller, then I think we should go after Armix.

[VanDamien]

thenextepsiode, please list your top two likely scum, and top two likely town, giving reasoning for each.

Or, earn my vote also.

[armlx]

so if Battlemage is the Miller, then what armix?

Someone who feels they have a good enough read on him to call his bluff.

[thenextepisode]

my top two likely scum are BattleMage, for his miller claim, and constant vote changing.
and EJ for his craplogic in trying to start a bandwagon with no evidence

Nemesis and Curiouskarmadog are my two most likely townies because they seem to be actively contributing to the game more than most others. (besides BM)

[Antithesis]

The vig discussion is one that really doesn't do much for me. First, as stated previously, I don't think it was a vig kill, and two, maybe its just me and my history elsewhere, but I am used to town vigs having restrictions placed on them, like if they kill a townie by accident, they leave the game as well. That sort of thing.

I guess the typical town vigilante here is much more... ruthless.

Either way, I don't see the point of treating the existence of a vig as a de facto certainty or not day 1 when another couple of phases will make that clear. Besides, I thought that sort of discussion would only help the mafia, anyway.

The Battlemage thing... a question for the veterans here. Is BM considered a strong townie player? By this I mean, does he have a rep as a strong scum hunter? If so, I do wonder why he wasn't targeted night one then.

Conversely, maybe I have misread things, and is BM more noteworthy as someone who always seems suspicious? By this I mean is BM one of those players who has a reputation for being hard to trust? If so, then I could see why scum would leave him alive, he's certainly managed to attract a lot of attention already. Then again, he himself has helped feed that with his Miller claim.

[Nemesis]

but I am used to town vigs having restrictions placed on them

Don't count on that. I've seen more overeager vigs than those vigs. (Although personally I don't think the vig killed.)

Nanosauromo, are you happy with your 3 posts since the game began? Do you feel confident that your posts per day will increase in this game?

[WhoMe?]

could someone explain the miller role to me please? OK when investigated they come back as guilty, do they get any protown powers also, or are they just a vanilla who looks bad if investigated?

[Nemesis]

could someone explain the miller role to me please? OK when investigated they come back as guilty, do they get any protown powers also, or are they just a vanilla who looks bad if investigated?

The basic miller role.

They can get pro-town powers in addition to being a miller, but a miller doesn't actually come with any protown powers. Sometimes un-nightkillable townies are made millers.

Generally a miller is just a vanilla townie who will make cops get a guilty on them though.

[WhoMe?]

so basically either

BM is lying scum and is claiming miller to avoid investigations

or

BM is telling the truth, he's basically vanilla, but there's always going to be that uncertainty about him, and scum will try to play on that to get him lynched at a crucial moment


Am I missing something or is this the situation? If this is the case I may switch my vote to BM, because I don't see much of a down side.

[armlx]

so basically either

BM is lying scum and is claiming miller to avoid investigations

or

BM is telling the truth, he's basically vanilla, but there's always going to be that uncertainty about him, and scum will try to play on that to get him lynched at a crucial moment


Am I missing something or is this the situation? If this is the case I may switch my vote to BM, because I don't see much of a down side.

Thats actually about 66% correct. There's an option C that he had some kind of role on top of miller thats exactly the same as option B otherwise.

[curiouskarmadog]

so if Battlemage is the Miller, then what armix?

If BM does turn up dead and he was indeed the Miller, then I think we should go after Armix.

well, that means that the lyncher wins right? We get second like in the case of the jester, right?

The Battlemage thing... a question for the veterans here. Is BM considered a strong townie player? By this I mean, does he have a rep as a strong scum hunter? If so, I do wonder why he wasn't targeted night one then.

In my dealings with BM, I find he tends to be a poor scum hunter. He tends to tunnel vision (I would be a hypocrite if I didnt admit to doing this too). But that is just in the games I am in with him, we tend to bump heads a lot. However, BM does have a ton of experience, so who knows. I believe the Miller claim, I would rather leave the testing of him being scum to the vig, if he deems BM scummy...I am not directing the vig, but I think it would be safer for the town (if I am understand the Miller/lyncher relationship with the town correctly)

Ok I just went to reread the Miller role...in both games I have played with a miller, there was a lyncher (I think)...can you have a miller without a lyncher, then? Has anyone ever played in a game where the Miller knew he was a Miller? I assume they are out there or BM and ST would not have had the discussion....

[armlx]

WTF, CKD, who mentioned a lyncher?

Miller have approximately 0% connection with lynchers. A miller is simply a pro-town player that shows up anti-town to cops. A lyncher wins if a specific person is lynched (not sure how it's chosen, never played a lyncher game or wanted it in a set up b/c IMO roles like that are pretty awful). No connection what so ever.

Millers know they are millers more often than not from what I have seen recently, however when I started playing it was common not to tell them.

[curiouskarmadog]

the first game I played in where there was a Miller...he was the target of a Lyncher...I thought that was how it was always played out. If you find a Miller, then there was also a Lyncher..I guess I am wrong here and it was just specific to that game?

[armlx]

the first game I played in where there was a Miller...he was the target of a Lyncher...I thought that was how it was always played out. If you find a Miller, then there was also a Lyncher..I guess I am wrong here and it was just specific to that game?

Pretty much.

[curiouskarmadog]

huh, well, now that was one reason I was against lynching BM. Let me reread him with that in mind, but that is a pretty ballsy move for BMscum...

[armlx]

I agree it takes big balls to run that. However, I have lost enough times to these bluffs that I have realized there is only a certain extent you can let them fly before you rescind the get out of jail free pass, and BM's claim seemed really forced to me and his behavior since then has not convinced me otherwise.

[skitzer]

I realize I've been a bit busy, so I will do something similar to TNE's 2scum-2town

Battle Mage- It is a bit difficult to differentiate between a miller and mafia without their death. I think it would be safest, IMO, for the possible vig to kill him, although maybe a cop should investigate? I don't really see a good situation in which an innocent should cliam miller, but Idk, this is BM.

Thenextepisode-I'm not quite sure I see the point about TNE's play, but what really caught my eye is that he didn't put himself as one of the two town. Fishy fishy...

Town

skitzer-because clearly, I know I am.

CKD-I'm agreeing with TNE because he has been rather contributive, and its not fluff either.

[Matt_S]

I don't like how we're going back to BM's miller claim, mainly because I don't think we can get anywhere with a bandwagon on him. As for oEJo, I don't like his vote on thenextepisode, but that's just my personal preference. As for thenextepisode himself, he's just someone who showed up in the middle of everything. I don't see either of them as being scummier than anybody else.

Anyway, back to BM. I don't think his miller claim is that bad. Looking from the perspective of him being a townie, he's trying to save any backup cops from wasting investigations. Looking at him as being scum, he's pulling some WIFOM. I can see how it's not good taking him to the endgame, but I don't think he's scummy enough for a lynch on day 1.

[thenextepisode]

I realize I've been a bit busy, so I will do something similar to TNE's 2scum-2town

Battle Mage- It is a bit difficult to differentiate between a miller and mafia without their death. I think it would be safest, IMO, for the possible vig to kill him, although maybe a cop should investigate? I don't really see a good situation in which an innocent should cliam miller, but Idk, this is BM.

Why would we want to investigate him?
He claimed miller, meaning regardless of his true alignment a cop investigation would reveal nothing.

Thenextepisode-I'm not quite sure I see the point about TNE's play, but what really caught my eye is that he didn't put himself as one of the two town. Fishy fishy...

generally, i would assume that if you ask someone to list their top 2 town, they assume besides yourself.
to put me as one of you top 2 scum due to that is just straight up dumb.

[andersonw]

a lot of things have been said...why dont you state what you agree with. I worry about people who do not make an effort to take a stance.

Okay then, I think that BM is probably a miller, but I agree with MattS that it's not a good idea if he is in near the endgame. But yeah, he is vote jumping quite a lot.
I agree that nanosauromo's post 184 is suspicious, but I think ninja was just trying to help scum hunt even though he was inactive. I also don't really like how Lloyd is acting.

Vote:nanosauromo

My town list so far is:
andersonw (obviously)
CKD and MattS (being constructive and posting a lot)

[Battle Mage]

The vig discussion is one that really doesn't do much for me. First, as stated previously, I don't think it was a vig kill, and two, maybe its just me and my history elsewhere, but I am used to town vigs having restrictions placed on them, like if they kill a townie by accident, they leave the game as well. That sort of thing.

I guess the typical town vigilante here is much more... ruthless.

Either way, I don't see the point of treating the existence of a vig as a de facto certainty or not day 1 when another couple of phases will make that clear. Besides, I thought that sort of discussion would only help the mafia, anyway.

The Battlemage thing... a question for the veterans here. Is BM considered a strong townie player? By this I mean, does he have a rep as a strong scum hunter? If so, I do wonder why he wasn't targeted night one then.

Conversely, maybe I have misread things, and is BM more noteworthy as someone who always seems suspicious? By this I mean is BM one of those players who has a reputation for being hard to trust? If so, then I could see why scum would leave him alive, he's certainly managed to attract a lot of attention already. Then again, he himself has helped feed that with his Miller claim.

Lol i like this post. It shows u are thinking. Check my title. It says 'Jester' because i always look scummy. In fact, im reputed to look scummier as town than as actual scum. Im such an easy mislynch its untrue. Please meta me, and dont do something really stupid.

Ill talk more later.

BM

[Imat]

I'm still sticking with Lloyd, I don't like how he votes, without any explanation, and while that may not be enough to kill him, he also changes his vote, again laving no explanation until pushed to do so. Seems like something a guilty person would do to me, just throw out blame and avoid taking it himself. And while that is what we are all doing, he seems to have done it more than most. Therefore...

Vote: Lloyd

[armlx]

I'm going to reread again, vote stands for now, but I'm fine with people realizing BM has to die eventually and can't be auto-cleared because of this. Thats probably better than a D1 lynch on someone scummy who won't really contribute that much.