Mini 546: House Mafia - Game Over

[curiouskarmadog]

interesting break downs vollkan and ergo.

I am so tempted to vote TG right now just on the "case study" line alone..

I want to hear more reactions to the break downs and relationship comparsions.

mostly from shafted (for I was/am getting a townie vibe from him)

[shaft.ed]

Pooky I have to give you some credit, your playstyle is making my head explode, I just don't get it. It's making this game a lot of fun! OK on with the game.

Do you really think I was trying to get you lynched shafted?

Obviously I do, I see no other reason for behaving the way you did.

If I were, why did I not vote you?

I don't know. I've asked you this on many occasions can you spell it out for me. I obviously find near certain accusations of scum alliance without a vote to be very scumy as you can distance yourself from a mislynch once the town gets worked up.

You think my choice of not providing reasons is an active decision on my part?

Certainly, I've been asking for reasons the entire game and you make no attempt to answer me just reply with more questions like these.

Why might I choose to not include any reasons on voting you?

As I said I interpret this is scum trying to fuel a lynch without dirtying their hands. And I thought you just said you never voted me.

[shaft.ed]

Second-place suspicion is a common place for scum to put their scumbuddy (a manifestation of "FriendofScum").

Just curious when this idea surfaced. In games I've played most people say scum rate partners in the neurtal category.

[shaft.ed]

Erg0 I suggest you meta me more thoroughly before drawing your conclusions. I am not afraid to bus scumbuddies at all especially in a game like this where there is no risk of drawing suspicion for not being NK'd. Look how no attention is being given CKD or Adel following the lynch. I also prefer long discussions before lynching, and it should be noted that we had a member of our team contributing nothing the entire cycle. There's no way I'm going to hammer someone without hearing anything from that player. Finally this is a total mischaracterization:

vollkan puts armlx at 70% in 281

So my list is:-

Dean - 75%
Pooky - 70%
armlx - 70%
Erg0 - 60%
TG - 50%

The 70% is not in isolation.

[TrustGossip]

Unfos: Armix

Thank you. I also agree with your assessment of CKD. It was the first time in the game I've used my vote as a weapon in scumhunting and I believe I fished out a satisfactory result.

This is post 354. Although some of the post is about ckd, the context is of you agreeing with armlx and withdrawing a prior FoS on him - hence, you're giving a favourable opinion on armlx in this post. Your case on ckd may be independent of this opinion, but you definitely are giving an opinion on him here.

I think it's only human to have some amount of trust on a person who agrees with your opinion. In retrospect, I was so focused on CDK that I didn't consider armix much. Then again, it wasn't exactly my imperative to do so, he was on my team after all and not a possible lynch candidate for myself. Perhaps you should dredge up my summary posts on the entire population instead of this passing comment that is only notable in hindsight. The post cited gives no evidence that I had insider knowledge of armix's alignment. Your crusade is maligned.

It's interesting how those being on the offensive on Day One are now the defenders of Day Two. Maybe I should try less hard next time.

[curiouskarmadog]

Unfos: Armix

Thank you. I also agree with your assessment of CKD. It was the first time in the game I've used my vote as a weapon in scumhunting and I believe I fished out a satisfactory result.

This is post 354. Although some of the post is about ckd, the context is of you agreeing with armlx and withdrawing a prior FoS on him - hence, you're giving a favourable opinion on armlx in this post. Your case on ckd may be independent of this opinion, but you definitely are giving an opinion on him here.

I think it's only human to have some amount of trust on a person who agrees with your opinion. In retrospect, I was so focused on CDK that I didn't consider armix much. Then again, it wasn't exactly my imperative to do so, he was on my team after all and not a possible lynch candidate for myself. Perhaps you should dredge up my summary posts on the entire population instead of this passing comment that is only notable in hindsight. The post cited gives no evidence that I had insider knowledge of armix's alignment. Your crusade is maligned.

It's interesting how those being on the offensive on Day One are now the defenders of Day Two. Maybe I should try less hard next time.

what a ridiculous post on all accounts. I remember you pressuring me to review my team mates..it wasnt imperative that I do so, but I did. You see, the big difference between you and me, is I want to scum hunt. Wasnt I on the offense yesterday, oh thats right..I was just over reacting.

I am done here.."maybe you should try less hard next time"..please...how sad.

vote TG.

[TrustGossip]

I am done here.."maybe you should try less hard next time"..please...how sad.

Yeah... it seems "overreacting" is just what you do best.

Perhaps you should reread my post, as it clearly was not as inflammatory as you had thought when you wrote this.

[TrustGossip]

In addition.

Is your name Erg0?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Bolded Responses are mine

Pooky I have to give you some credit, your playstyle is making my head explode, I just don't get it. It's making this game a lot of fun! OK on with the game.

Do you really think I was trying to get you lynched shafted?

Obviously I do, I see no other reason for behaving the way you did.

Possibilities for why I would do what I did that don't involve lynching you would be, "looking for reaction from you" "looking for reaction from others" "baiting scum with bad idea" "throwing ideas around and seeing what happens" I mean if a person like Armlx randomly follows you around, wouldn't you throw some illogical hate around just to see if he jumps after it?

If I were, why did I not vote you?

I don't know. I've asked you this on many occasions can you spell it out for me. I obviously find near certain accusations of scum alliance without a vote to be very scumy as you can distance yourself from a mislynch once the town gets worked up.

A distinct possibility here is that at the time, I did not actually want to lynch you or really had a strong inclination to believe you to be scu,

You think my choice of not providing reasons is an active decision on my part?

Certainly, I've been asking for reasons the entire game and you make no attempt to answer me just reply with more questions like these.

Do you think I believed I could get a lynch on you without providing reasons? If the answer to that is no, then do you trhink I really was trying to lynch you?

Why might I choose to not include any reasons on voting you?

As I said I interpret this is scum trying to fuel a lynch without dirtying their hands. And I thought you just said you never voted me.

But my hands are dirty, if you get lynched and show up innocent, does it really matter whether I provided a vote or reasoning? It's not like people can't read the thread, in fact I would be more suspicious for having pushed it without providing reasoning perhaps?

[curiouskarmadog]

I cant comment when I see you pile more on the crap pile?

Instead of throwing quick jabs, why dont you actually scum hunt or have you already started "trying less hard"?

[shaft.ed]

Do you think I believed I could get a lynch on you without providing reasons? If the answer to that is no, then do you trhink I really was trying to lynch you?

Have you already forgotten your multipage debate with vollkan about how reasons are required for a lynch?

[Erg0]

Erg0 I suggest you meta me more thoroughly before drawing your conclusions. I am not afraid to bus scumbuddies at all especially in a game like this where there is no risk of drawing suspicion for not being NK'd. Look how no attention is being given CKD or Adel following the lynch. I also prefer long discussions before lynching, and it should be noted that we had a member of our team contributing nothing the entire cycle. There's no way I'm going to hammer someone without hearing anything from that player.

Given that you just told me how I should meta you, you'll forgive me if I don't take it at face value.

Finally this is a total mischaracterization:

vollkan puts armlx at 70% in 281

So my list is:-

Dean - 75%
Pooky - 70%
armlx - 70%
Erg0 - 60%
TG - 50%

The 70% is not in isolation.

My point was more that you said you'd wait for vollkan's opinion, but didn't actually do anything with it when it came. One possible explanation is you were using the wait for vollkan as an excuse to avoid hammering your buddy, in the hope that the wagon would go away in the meantime.

[Erg0]

Unfos: Armix

Thank you. I also agree with your assessment of CKD. It was the first time in the game I've used my vote as a weapon in scumhunting and I believe I fished out a satisfactory result.

This is post 354. Although some of the post is about ckd, the context is of you agreeing with armlx and withdrawing a prior FoS on him - hence, you're giving a favourable opinion on armlx in this post. Your case on ckd may be independent of this opinion, but you definitely are giving an opinion on him here.

I think it's only human to have some amount of trust on a person who agrees with your opinion. In retrospect, I was so focused on CDK that I didn't consider armix much. Then again, it wasn't exactly my imperative to do so, he was on my team after all and not a possible lynch candidate for myself.

You're missing the point. I'm saying that you expressed this trust in him, and then went on to say in post 385 that you were ok with him being lynched.

Perhaps you should dredge up my summary posts on the entire population instead of this passing comment that is only notable in hindsight. The post cited gives no evidence that I had insider knowledge of armix's alignment. Your crusade is maligned.

Of course it's only notable in hindsight - when you said it I didn't know that armlx was scum yet. Your previous posts don't help your case, as they all express suspicion of armlx up to the point when you unFoS him for ill-defined reasons. The post where you initially FoS him is 329, in which you say: "Heavy FOS: armix As in, once I hear an update on all the lurkers and if they aren't horrendously suspicious... *bang*" I would expect that it would take a fairly dramatic reversal of your opinion of armlx to cause you to withdraw that FoS in 354, which is why your statement in 385 is so notable. Your only mention of armlx between these two posts is in 372, where you agree with armlx's case on ckd, so there's no transitional period from non-suspicion back to suspicion that I can see.

It's interesting how those being on the offensive on Day One are now the defenders of Day Two. Maybe I should try less hard next time.

Ignoring the appeal to emotion, this may well be a playstyle thing. I tend to become more active as the game progresses, and I daresay the same is true of others.

[shaft.ed]

Given that you just told me how I should meta you, you'll forgive me if I don't take it at face value.

Meta aside, would you disagree that bus'ing is a poor strategy in a nightless game?

My point was more that you said you'd wait for vollkan's opinion, but didn't actually do anything with it when it came. One possible explanation is you were using the wait for vollkan as an excuse to avoid hammering your buddy, in the hope that the wagon would go away in the meantime.

If your point was simply to show that vollkan had weighed in why did you take the effort to post his readout of armlx, and why did you post his readout without listing other players on team LU?

[shaft.ed]

Possibilities for why I would do what I did that don't involve lynching you would be, "looking for reaction from you" "looking for reaction from others" "baiting scum with bad idea" "throwing ideas around and seeing what happens" I mean if a person like Armlx randomly follows you around, wouldn't you throw some illogical hate around just to see if he jumps after it?

If these were all things you were possibly doing could you show examples of you following up on them? I really dislike people doing things that can easily be a scum tactic and explaining them away as "I was looking for reactions."

[vollkan]

Second-place suspicion is a common place for scum to put their scumbuddy (a manifestation of "FriendofScum").

Just curious when this idea surfaced. In games I've played most people say scum rate partners in the neurtal category.

I've seen it a few times that scum will place buddies in second or third place (or, alternatively, throw FoSes onto buddies and votes onto townies)

The best recent examples that come to mind:

Mini 495

- Korlash has buddy Lucienne in third place on his suspicion list. Dybeck puts Oman at #4 then #2 on his "night kill list".

Newbie 514

- I correctly pegged the two scum (didn't end up winning due to mod eror, sadly) of Lowell and Lulubelle and each had #1: Townie, #2: Buddy (in the sense that either they listed like that, or that they voted the townie but kept their buddy in the wings as a second suspect)

Mini 500

- I was scum with Pwayne and I had him as a high suspect, but rarely my #1 throughout.

Of course, the actual analysis needs to be much more refined than "Scum had you in second place. You are scum!" - Newbie 514 is the best and most recent example of me putting this theory into practice properly.

Analysis of others to armlx coming shortly.

[Erg0]

Given that you just told me how I should meta you, you'll forgive me if I don't take it at face value.

Meta aside, would you disagree that bus'ing is a poor strategy in a nightless game?

Depends on the situation and the individual. It's possibly a slightly better strategy than it would otherwise be, but it's not the

only

way to play.

My point was more that you said you'd wait for vollkan's opinion, but didn't actually do anything with it when it came. One possible explanation is you were using the wait for vollkan as an excuse to avoid hammering your buddy, in the hope that the wagon would go away in the meantime.

If your point was simply to show that vollkan had weighed in why did you take the effort to post his readout of armlx, and why did you post his readout without listing other players on team LU?

The point of the analysis was to list people's actions relating to armlx. vollkan's ratings of the other players aren't really relevant in this context. It wasn't exactly an effort to list his percentage, I'd already made full notes on every player's relationship with armlx, so I had it right in front of me. "vollkan put him at 70%" is just shorthand for "vollkan gave his opinion and felt armlx was reasonably scummy". There may have been a couple of others rated higher, but 70% is still a pretty scummy rating, and I wouldn't have thought that it would discourage you from voting armlx yourself.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you really think it would be hard for me to get reasons for you?

[Erg0]

Do you always answer a question with a question?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

no

[Erg0]

Touche.

[TrustGossip]

Unfos: Armix

Thank you. I also agree with your assessment of CKD. It was the first time in the game I've used my vote as a weapon in scumhunting and I believe I fished out a satisfactory result.

This is post 354. Although some of the post is about ckd, the context is of you agreeing with armlx and withdrawing a prior FoS on him - hence, you're giving a favourable opinion on armlx in this post. Your case on ckd may be independent of this opinion, but you definitely are giving an opinion on him here.

I think it's only human to have some amount of trust on a person who agrees with your opinion. In retrospect, I was so focused on CDK that I didn't consider armix much. Then again, it wasn't exactly my imperative to do so, he was on my team after all and not a possible lynch candidate for myself. Perhaps you should dredge up my summary posts on the entire population instead of this passing comment that is only notable in hindsight. The post cited gives no evidence that I had insider knowledge of armix's alignment. Your crusade is maligned.

It's interesting how those being on the offensive on Day One are now the defenders of Day Two. Maybe I should try less hard next time.

what a ridiculous post on all accounts. I remember you pressuring me to review my team mates..it wasnt imperative that I do so, but I did. You see, the big difference between you and me, is I want to scum hunt. Wasnt I on the offense yesterday, oh thats right..I was just over reacting.

I am done here.."maybe you should try less hard next time"..please...how sad.

vote TG.

How is this a valid set of reasoning for a vote? All I really see is, "your opinion of me does not agree with the image I have projected of myself, you totally suck and you're not trying because you were so focused on me for Day One. That is dumb because I am a shining beacon of pro-town-ness"

I have also already stated that I am very busy this week due to exams.

I am unable to provide a full retrospective of armix at this time

which is why I suggested myself as a wagon target so we could move to diagnostic.

There is more than one way to be pro-town

@ Erg0: I seriously fail to see why armix and I are now best buddies. My unfos was because I believed his opinion. He wasn't really on my radar because I was much more focused on the other team and Erg0 and Dean Harper inspired more suspicion in my heart than armix did. I am being honest.
If your whole case is based on my incorrect value judgment of armix, then I suggest you find a different angle. Then again, I I still don't really mind the attention all that much. As soon as people find the target of "bilateral action against the common enemy" (in Pooky's words) we can move onto diagnostic. I have stated repeatedly that I do not mind being this person. Instead of needlessly analyzing me in a period where votes don't weigh as much as in the latter stage, just vote me already.

[curiouskarmadog]

did I say that was my only reason?

[shaft.ed]

you really think it would be hard for me to get reasons for you?

Would you care to address my second point in a way that actually adresses it?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

1) I wanted to know what vollkan believed to be grounds for lynching.

2) I didn't immediately follow up on it. Armlx following me three times isn't that conclusive. Giving Armlx more time to do other things would give us more information. Throwing my weight somewhere else might spook him. I'm not going to immediately turn on somebody who jumped after me and say AH HAH I CAUGHT YOU NOW SUCKER, I'd wait and see what else he does and evaluate his actions. My point is, if I wanted to throw suspicion on you, I wouldn't have a hard time coming up with a list of reasons to attack you with. If I somehow found it impossible to come up with some reasons for you being scum, then I wouldn't decide to suddenly go out of my way to attack you.