Open 59 - Daytalk 12! (Game Over) before 545

[Mizzy]

Hi to you, replacer-person! Thanks for joining

[vollkan]

Then you start pushing against Mizzy for defending me.

...

4) Why should Mizzy not have defended me?

I didn't really defend you, I just pointed out what I thought was something he was either missing completely, or trying intentionally to make others miss. I didn't like it that he tried to make someone seem contradictory who had not been.

Yup. I should have been clearer there. You didn't actually defend me per se; you criticised kab's attakcs. He just called it a defense.

So that what I am saying is clearer:
@Kab - Change question 4 to:
4) Why should Mizzy not have criticised your attacks?

[Incognito]

Comments?

I don't know. I've actually been reading through vollkan's Mini 542 around the time that this Mills character fakeclaimed Godfather and sure enough, vollkan-town did place a vote against Mills to actually hammer him. This meta is at least consistent with his views in our Open 59 game. As for the other meta you've provided, NabNab, I'll have to look that over.

The only thing that gives me pause about vollkan in reference to his scum claim argument is the timing of his vote against Adel after she scum claimed. Mills's alignment was already revealed sometime in mid-January and Adel scum-claimed in late January. vollkan would have already known that town could have a propensity to claim scum even though it probably serves no practical purpose within a game. I can see where vollkan was coming from though; he just wanted an explanation from her to see what practical purpose a claim like that could have at helping us to find scum. Having said all that, I still like my Adel vote. =)

[Incognito]

Oh and welcome, Guardian.

[Adel]

Adel, sup with NabNab?

Every read about Game theory?

I choose one player at the beginning of the game to believe is pro town (3/4 chance of being right) and he is the player I picked.

The way I see it, the tactic to maximize the town's chances of success is for every player to preted they are confirmed masons with one other player. One quarter will be making a horrible decision, but that will be more than balanced out by the other three quarters who get to have a very benifical relationship.

[Guardian]

Hm. I'm not sure I see how that makes sense.

It is true that 3/4 players will get to have a very beneficial relationship -- but that includes the 3 scum!

t-t
t-t
t-t
s-t
s-t
s-t

doesn't seem like a great deal at all, to me. it does to you?

It seems to make more sense to me to evaluate other player's play and then treat someone as pro-town when your analysis of their play is very pro-town. can you explain to me where I've gone wrong?

do you still find kab suspicious? What are we waiting for from nab nab?

[Adel]

doesn't seem like a great deal at all, to me. it does to you?

you illustrated the worse case scenario, with each player pairing up.
I trust Nab-Nab because I like the 8/11 odds of him being pro-town. If each player makes a similar one-way choice (random would be great) then on average it works out much better.

[JDodge]

I believe he is dodging posts, hiding behind his long lengths of text and using them to make it look like he is adding a great deal of content without actually doing so. If you can say it with less words, then say it with less words. It need not be prettied up with repetition and huge explanations. In my opinon, they are just empty words.

I'm verbose. Deal with it.

It's just my writing style - repetition for emphasis and explanations for logical transparency.

So you agree that you are using repetitions as a manner of artificially inflating your points?

[Adel]

vote: vollkan

because that is who I think Nab Nab doubts the most.

[JDodge]

Adel, sup with NabNab?

Every read about Game theory?

I choose one player at the beginning of the game to believe is pro town (3/4 chance of being right) and he is the player I picked.

The way I see it, the tactic to maximize the town's chances of success is for every player to preted they are confirmed masons with one other player. One quarter will be making a horrible decision, but that will be more than balanced out by the other three quarters who get to have a very benifical relationship.

The issue is that you seem to be using this as an excuse to not have any opinions of your own, which is

not

beneficial in any way. Who do

you

(not NabNab, take the NabNab thing out of the equation) think is suspicious?

[Guardian]

I want to hear jdodge's above question answered.

also

do you still find kab suspicious? What are we waiting for from nab nab?

As for the mason thing -- so you propose we all choose one way mason-ness? That makes a bit more sense maths wise, but then why would our chose mason communicate with us, if he didn't think we were town?

Can you speak to why you think that is better than selecting pro-town appearing players?

Aren't the chances using random now only 5/8 that we get good buddies? Aren't the odds only 5/8 that Nab is town?

[Adel]

I want to hear jdodge's above question answered.

also

do you still find kab suspicious? What are we waiting for from nab nab?

As for the mason thing -- so you propose we all choose one way mason-ness? That makes a bit more sense maths wise, but then why would our chose mason communicate with us, if he didn't think we were town?

Can you speak to why you think that is better than selecting pro-town appearing players?

Aren't the chances using random now only 5/8 that we get good buddies? Aren't the odds only 5/8 that Nab is town?

1. I picked nabnab on day 1. You asked me what was up with him.
2. I never really found kab all that suspicious.. (feel free to quote the posts where I sound sincere.
3. I am pretty convinced by NN's case, I guess I just wanted my vote to sound just a little extra scummy.

[vollkan]

I believe he is dodging posts, hiding behind his long lengths of text and using them to make it look like he is adding a great deal of content without actually doing so. If you can say it with less words, then say it with less words. It need not be prettied up with repetition and huge explanations. In my opinon, they are just empty words.

I'm verbose. Deal with it.

It's just my writing style - repetition for emphasis and explanations for logical transparency.

So you agree that you are using repetitions as a manner of artificially inflating your points?

No. Over-writing is a problem that plagues me no matter what I am doing (mafia, or uni assignments). If I am given a word limit for an assignment, for instance, I often write at least five times more than I need to and then just cut out huge chunks.

It isn't that I intentionally use repetition to inflate myself. I think it is more the case that I make such convoluted explanations that I then think I need to reiterate my initial point.

[Guardian]

send a PM to phate and nabnab, for the record.

I see no reason that who is daytalking with whom shouldn't be a matter of public record.

Adel, you didn't really do a good job of responding to 335 in 336. Could you try again? Going through and quoting my posts, and responding to each part under the quoted portion would help.

I'd like to hear why NabNab finds vollkan suspicious.

[Mizzy]

Just a heads up:

I will be away with limited or no internet access until late Monday, Feb. 18th.

[Phate]

Guardian, I like the idea of being able to communicate privately. That's why I signed up for daytalk. Keeping public records of daytalking kind of defeats the purpose of daytalk.

I still feel strongly that kabenon is scum.

[kabenon007]

I'd really like to know why you find me suspicious, Phate.

[Phate]

Your exchange with vollkan strikes me as scummy. Specifically, you seem to be making attacks which, when disproved, you try to downplay. The way you switched focus to Mizzy halfway through also strikes me as scummy.

I also really don't like this series of posts, all in a row:

Vollkan, you should come over to the xyzzy wagon and maybe we can get something going or something. I'd random bandwagon someone at this point to get some conversation going.

Pushing an xyzzylynch.

Come on xyzzy, if you really are town, say something, so we can have some sort of argument and have somebody slip up and then lynched! Yay!

Something to point to later if you're blamed for xyzzy's lynch.

I don't think a hammer is necessary, but a -2 might encourage some discussion.

Still pushing the xyzzy wagon.

unvote. I wanted to get participation, not a quick lynch.

Hopping off the wagon when a lynch draws near. This wouldn't be

that

damning if not for your next few posts.

There hasn't been enough information really to find a meritorious bandwagon. So, by bandwagonning randomly, I hoped to get information. But the wagon grew all too quickly, which I suppose is information in and of itself.

Holding onto the sanctimonious "I wash my hands of this" attitude, and preparing to blame others for the xyzzy wagon.

I don't think a hammer is necessary, but a -2 might encourage some discussion.

Prodding the wagon along from the safety of the Not Voting area.

I was kinda hoping that votes for a certain person would cause an increase in participation, but it seems that this did not work. If you, vollkan, saw no justification, then why vote for him in the first place?

Setting up a possible target on D2 after xyzzy is lynched. Incidentally, who did kab go after now immediately on D2? Coincidence?

Why do you think otherwise?

'Cuz he's scum and doesn't want to die.

And then right here, you're encouraging an xyzzy lynch again; perhaps worried the lynch won't go through and having to prod it. Doesn't fit with your last two posts.

I really can't see kabtown making that series of posts.

[kabenon007]

Vollkan, you should come over to the xyzzy wagon and maybe we can get something going or something. I'd random bandwagon someone at this point to get some conversation going.

Pushing an xyzzylynch.

Yes...

Come on xyzzy, if you really are town, say something, so we can have some sort of argument and have somebody slip up and then lynched! Yay!

Something to point to later if you're blamed for xyzzy's lynch.

Or it could be an attempt to get some information that didn't come from the mislynch of a townie.

I don't think a hammer is necessary, but a -2 might encourage some discussion.

Still pushing the xyzzy wagon.

The wagon, not the lynch. Important differentiation there.

unvote. I wanted to get participation, not a quick lynch.

Hopping off the wagon when a lynch draws near. This wouldn't be that damning if not for your next few posts.

There hasn't been enough information really to find a meritorious bandwagon. So, by bandwagonning randomly, I hoped to get information. But the wagon grew all too quickly, which I suppose is information in and of itself.

Holding onto the sanctimonious "I wash my hands of this" attitude, and preparing to blame others for the xyzzy wagon.

Well, do you not agree the wagon grew way too quickly? If you had wanted information in the form of discussion and not a lynch, would you not unvote?

I don't think a hammer is necessary, but a -2 might encourage some discussion.

Prodding the wagon along from the safety of the Not Voting area.

You already attacked me for this above, so I won't respond to it here, you're just trying to make it look like you have more on me than you do.

I was kinda hoping that votes for a certain person would cause an increase in participation, but it seems that this did not work. If you, vollkan, saw no justification, then why vote for him in the first place?

Setting up a possible target on D2 after xyzzy is lynched. Incidentally, who did kab go after now immediately on D2? Coincidence?

Don't you think about who you will be voting for the next day should things not work out? I merely asked a question, and you Phate, went back and took it and molded it to mean what you wanted it to mean. I saw something I didn't like, I spoke up about it. Doesn't mean I was "setting up" next day's lynch.

Why do you think otherwise?

'Cuz he's scum and doesn't want to die.

And then right here, you're encouraging an xyzzy lynch again; perhaps worried the lynch won't go through and having to prod it. Doesn't fit with your last two posts.
I really can't see kabtown making that series of posts.

You need to get your sarcasm detector fixed.

[NabakovNabakov]

@Phate: I noticed you voted Kab late D1, ostensibly for the reasons you just posted. What happened in the interim?

@Adel: Stop being intentionally misleading. Saying vollkan appears scummiest to me is like saying vollkan is the scummiest postern named vollkan; there's not a very large pool to choose from when it comes to players I've posted opinions on.

[Phate]

In the interim, I talked to a few people. One agreed, but not strongly; one thought I was overreacting. I'll reveal their identities if I need to.

Then, I got caught up in the JDodge-Adel-Vollkan scumclaiming debate, and watched that for awhile. Once it quieted down, I reread, and came to the conclusion that I still thought kab was scum.

[Xtoxm]

Hey guys, i'm replacing Primate. I'll read back a bit.

[Adel]

do you still find kab suspicious?

Yes, partially because I find Phate to be pretty convincing.

What are we waiting for from nab nab?

I'm not sure. I do know that I'm something like 0-4 against him in games where we have separate alignments, so I have a pretty high regard for his ability.

As for the mason thing -- so you propose we all choose one way mason-ness?

As things currently stand the mafia benifit quite a bit more from the daytime communication that we do, so I've spent some time trying to figure out how to balance things out. Apparently there was very little communication between players day 1. More communication is needed. As you pointed out the ratio's are a little off now from yesterday, so maybe it would be best to just pick the player you think is the most townie. I wish this game had a powerrole or two.

That makes a bit more sense maths wise, but then why would our chose mason communicate with us, if he didn't think we were town?

That is the roadblock I hit. Nab-Nab's responces to me so far basically consist of the word "no."

Can you speak to why you think that is better than selecting pro-town appearing players?

I thought about it, and I think random choices are not as good as each player choosing to talk to the one person they think is the most townie, and spilling thier guts. Lay it all out via PM, and give that player as much information as you possibly can that could possibly effect the game.

Aren't the chances using random now only 5/8 that we get good buddies? Aren't the odds only 5/8 that Nab is town?

I picked him day 1. see my above post.

[Incognito]

In the interim, I talked to a few people. One agreed, but not strongly; one thought I was overreacting. I'll reveal their identities if I need to.

I don't mind having my identity revealed (ironic, eh?). I was the one who agreed. I thought it was strange early on how kabenon specifically chose the xyzzy wagon as opposed to the JDodge one in his first vote of the game. Kabenon responded in a way that somewhat lessened my suspicion so my negative feelings about him did decrease. Phate's current case against kabenon is extremely convincing, and I think he could use a bit more pressure so

unvote; vote: kabenon007

.

I'll say this: if kabenon is the lynch for today and he does turn up scum, I'll be looking hard at JDodge tomorrow just because of those early actions from kabenon.

[kabenon007]

And when I turn up town?