Mafia 75: Return of the Mafia! TOWN WINS (really late)


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Post Post #850 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:31 am

Post by Battle Mage »

armlx wrote:
Matt_S wrote:Can we get back to relevant discussion please? Like who's scum?
Anxious to see something happen. Often something i am guilty of as scum.
MattS wrote: I believe the most recent subjects were Lloyd and Antithesis.
Subjects?
Do you find these players scummy, or do you just want to see more pressure on them because they arent your scumbuddies?
However, I believe that Antithesis is a shy townie. Or something.
If you think he is town, why are you suggesting that more people vote for him?
Or something?! wtf?

BM
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Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
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Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
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Post Post #851 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:40 am

Post by Battle Mage »

oh and Killa Seven is posting elsewhere, and even viewing the forum, but not posting here. just an fyi.

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Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
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Post Post #852 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:47 am

Post by armlx »

Thank you, let me explain.

Your first point is sorely mistaken. I explained my reasoning: I believe the miller claim is very convenient for scum to hide behind early on. Please reread my posts. All I really wanted was for people to stop acting like BM was auto confirmed like they were.

Second: I focused on 1 lurker, TSN, and that was early on before anything discussion worthy beyond BM's claim had really occurred. Once more viable targets started popping up, you can actually see the lurkers moving down my scum list. I disagree with you that pressuring lurkers is bad. Lynching them b/c they are lurking is bad, lynching them b/c they show up and spout off dumb logic and bad excuses isn't.

As for scum going off topic, thats crap logic. Specific players tend to go off topic more than others, not specific roles. Hell, if anything, scum would be less likely to discuss good theory IMO as it helps the town.

Wagon Hopping: Look at my "Hops".

BM: Explained.

Matt_S: Solid early attack to get things moving.

TSN: Pressure a lurker into posting, which he did and responded in a poor manner. He's been good since then however.

BM: Explained.

Incognito: Built a case. See my posts before the vote.

oEJo: Chills back, doesn't say much, then decides to start a random wagon, then wagon hops? Vote worthy to me.

Matt_S: This was a valid wagon, for the reason you are accusing me ironically (wagon hopping). Care to disagree. He defended himself fairly well and didn't react poorly, so my vote fell off.

Lloyd: Will admit, this vote was dumb. I gave Lloyd a lot more credit for typically being a serious player than he deserved and because of this felt his actions were scummier than they were.

Andycyca: See that post.

Antithesis: After his response to the issue I brought up about him not voting, I'm very happy with my vote here right now.
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Post Post #853 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:48 am

Post by farside22 »

Battle Mage wrote:oh and Killa Seven is posting elsewhere, and even viewing the forum, but not posting here. just an fyi.

BM
He posted here too. He just did his normal one line and answering nothing of interest.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
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Post Post #854 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:59 am

Post by Matt_S »

Battle Mage wrote:
Matt_S wrote:Can we get back to relevant discussion please? Like who's scum?
Anxious to see something happen. Often something i am guilty of as scum.
MattS wrote: I believe the most recent subjects were Lloyd and Antithesis.
Subjects?
Do you find these players scummy, or do you just want to see more pressure on them because they arent your scumbuddies?
However, I believe that Antithesis is a shy townie. Or something.
If you think he is town, why are you suggesting that more people vote for him?
Or something?! wtf?

BM
1. Using your meta to come to conclusions about me?
2. Subjects of discussion. As in "change your quote" arguments don't move the game forward. I'm trying to get things back on track.
3. I don't remember ever telling people to vote for him. "Or something" refers to other explanations of Antithesis's behavior other than being a shy townie, which was largely sarcasm.
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The Feynman Problem-Solving Algorithm:
(1) write down the problem;
(2) think very hard;
(3) write down the answer.
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Post Post #855 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:08 am

Post by Battle Mage »

Matt_S wrote:
Battle Mage wrote:
Matt_S wrote:Can we get back to relevant discussion please? Like who's scum?
Anxious to see something happen. Often something i am guilty of as scum.
MattS wrote: I believe the most recent subjects were Lloyd and Antithesis.
Subjects?
Do you find these players scummy, or do you just want to see more pressure on them because they arent your scumbuddies?
However, I believe that Antithesis is a shy townie. Or something.
If you think he is town, why are you suggesting that more people vote for him?
Or something?! wtf?

BM
1. Using your meta to come to conclusions about me?
Damn right. I think i'm pretty decent as scum. So, if i commit a scumtell regularly, i expect you would also fall for it aswell.
2. Subjects of discussion. As in "change your quote" arguments don't move the game forward. I'm trying to get things back on track.
Hmm, ok. I just find it hard to believe that you would, as town, choose to remind the others of suspicions of people who you dont find scummy. :?

@Farside-no i mean yesterday (since his last post here)
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Day-elimmed by majority - 4

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Post Post #856 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:36 am

Post by Nemesis »

curiouskarmadog wrote:so was my asking for a deadline anti-town or a powerful protown move?

Nem, you thoughts on others who support a retractable deadline? What about the first person you originally brought it up?
I think it was an anti-town thing to do.

Supporting a retractable one seems questionable, more in a misguided sense than a scummy one though.

For the record, "retractable" wasn't in your request.
You wrote: Mod, I think it is time to set a deadline!
The Mod wrote:EDIT: I think I agree with those discussing a deadline, due to the current length of Day 1, but I also feel the game is fairly active as well, so I will set a deadline for 2 weeks from now for Saturday 22nd March 9.00pm GMT.
The mod edited his post, thus I'm giving you most of the credit for the deadline existing.

As for WhoMe? who brought the deadline, he asked the town what they'd think of one... You on the other hand directly asked the mod for one despite the majority of people being against a deadline, plus the conversation moving on.
[url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=414662#414662]Damnit, Nemesis.[/url]
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Post Post #857 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:24 pm

Post by curiouskarmadog »

and those who support it?

umm, that that really isnt the facts was it?...the conversation got moving AFTER I asked for the deadline, why are you misrepresenting the facts?...look at the conversation (content and frequency) before I ask for it and after....Nem, I would actually like you to comment on this, I am sure you want to back up your "facts"?
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Post Post #858 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:41 pm

Post by Antithesis »

Antithesis: After his response to the issue I brought up about him not voting, I'm very happy with my vote here right now.
armlx wrote:
Unvote, Vote Antithesis


You last posts only dig a deeper hole, especially where you go off and accuse dahill of strawmanning....

Says here you voted on my reply to dahill. You have yet to explain why that makes me worthy of a vote, actually you have failed to explain your vote on me at all. Maybe you think my name is some safe harbor you can hide out at until deadline, but I would really like to see you justify your vote.
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it."

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Post Post #859 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:19 pm

Post by armlx »

?

Its fairly obvious. You said you didn't want to vote anyone because no one was scummy, which is complete BS and obviously you covering yourself for trying not to get involved in a potentially attention getting wagon.

Didn't feel like it needed explaining.
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Post Post #860 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:04 pm

Post by Khelvaster »

K-scope wrote:Lurkerscum are no threat if they really lurk.
Could you justify this statement? I find lurkerscum to be threats because they don't give any material to the town, so you don't think about them, and then they survive and are out of suspicion. This in its very nature is threatening, is it not?
Lag actually does exist in real life. For proof, look no further than Jesus: When he died, it took him three *days* to respawn.
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Post Post #861 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:25 pm

Post by Antithesis »

armlx wrote:?

Its fairly obvious. You said you didn't want to vote anyone because no one was scummy, which is complete BS and obviously you covering yourself for trying not to get involved in a potentially attention getting wagon.

Didn't feel like it needed explaining.
I never said no one was scummy. Please point to where I said that. I said I couldn't discern between scum wagon hopping and naive (i.e. newbie) wagon hopping. In fact I am on record as stating that i find wagon hopping scummy in and of itself.

Now, you are just making shit up.
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Post Post #862 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:45 pm

Post by armlx »

Antithesis wrote: Why am I waiting? Because I have no way of reading people who change their votes 3 times a week without botehring to attempt to justify it. My scumdar consists of gut feeling, and evaluating arguments.
I may get around to making a case on someone when I feel pretty certain they are scum
I am waiting for someone to make a rational, well thought case against someone
else
I said I can't make sense out of all the previous wagon hopping.
Basically all saying you find no one scummy. Or you just don't want to commit and get involved in voting. You made 1 attack on a player over the cour
se of the game until I noticed you hadn't voted (Matt S early on)

Lets go back over some more things, why don't we.
To date, nearly every case made for or against anyone has been either weak, or out right fallacious.

Yet, surely some of the accussed must be scum. The sheer numbers involved would indicate as much.
Nice statement. We don't have arguments against these people, but some must be scum.
What bothers me is the Cult.

Lets assume that they aren't dead, that there is a recruiter and a cult leader, as some Cults have.
Way to bring up the cult and try to extract hysterics from people once you draw some fire.
Understand that, even if you are a Townie miller now, I think claiming early makes you a damn near perfect target for recruitment later on.
Try to draw BM in with personal references to him being in danger.
Basically, what you are saying here is because I don't throw votes around at random, like a fool, I must be scum.
You completely try to misinterpret the argument against you here. Its not that you aren't randomly voting, its that you are showing no tendencies at all. Basically lurking in plain sight, not taking any action that would draw attention your way.
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Post Post #863 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:53 pm

Post by Antithesis »

Again, quote where I said no one was scum.

I see some quotes relating to the fact that I have admitted I find it difficult to pick up on scum at this point in the game and... you are going to lynch me for that?

Aside from myself, tell me, master scum hunter, who else is obviously scum here, so that I my sup at the font of your wisdom.
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Post Post #864 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:08 pm

Post by armlx »

OK.

Got a feeling about Khevlaster, need to go back and see officially more.

I've got CKD at about above average odds of being scum, his behavior seems forced and aggressive this game.

oEJo at high odds of being scum. Starting the TNE wagon, attacking Charity who was obviously making a newbie mistake, then going OMG my wagon is moving too fast, and just lurking the rest of the time.

TNE at above average odds of being scum, especially if oEJo is scum as that would be a failed bus attempt IMHO.

WhoMe? at about where CKD stands. He pops in and out at weird times, though he is voting enough to not just be holding back. Least suspicious of him out of my scummy people.

Just to note, BM I'm treating as town for the first few days despite my suspicions. The amount of info gained from him being in the game either way is too great to throw for now.

IGMEO Incognito, Andycyca, and Killa, but for today I'm not putting them in the scum bucket just yet.

In retrospect I should have voted for oEJo when I attacked Andy, but in fairness oEJo had sorta faded back into the woodwork by that point and I had forgotten about all the dumb things he did.

Current Suspicion List:

Top Tier (should die):
Antithesis
oEJo

Mid tier (should be pressed a bit more):
TNE
CKD

Low Tier (watch it)
WhoMe?
Khev (for now)
Incog
Andycyca
killa
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Post Post #865 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:09 pm

Post by armlx »

Antithesis wrote:Again, quote where I said no one was scum.
You don't have to say no one was
scummy
to imply it. The only excuse for implying that is laziness or not wanting to be found, and your posts are advanced enough I'm leaning B.
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Post Post #866 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:18 pm

Post by Antithesis »

So you think Matt S is town?
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it."

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Post Post #867 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:22 pm

Post by Antithesis »

armlx wrote:
Antithesis wrote:Again, quote where I said no one was scum.
You don't have to say no one was
scummy
to imply it. The only excuse for implying that is laziness or not wanting to be found, and your posts are advanced enough I'm leaning B.
Instead of imagining what I mean, why not read what I say? I said I found the wagon hopping scummy but could not discern as to which hoppers are actually scum. Isn't that alone enough to negate whatever silly implication you hallucinate?
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Post Post #868 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:25 pm

Post by Antithesis »

Didn't you think Matt's entire 'guess my role' bit was odd? Or his earlier mistakes? Is their some kind of dissonance or perhaps, distance, between you two?
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Post Post #869 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:35 pm

Post by armlx »

I felt he handled himself well enough in response to this last round of attacks that he isn't on my top scum list.

As for scummy vs scum, you seem to act like you only vote people you are sure are scum, not those who are scummy. Not the case. You attack people you think are scummy to garner responses to get reads to determine who is scum, then lynch them.
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Post Post #870 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:39 pm

Post by TheSweatpantsNinja »

K7 may be fairly useless, but that's sort of how he rolls. I don't see how that's any worse than, say, rosso carne. Or tlp. Who should be lynched. I'm just saying.
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Post Post #871 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:18 pm

Post by Antithesis »

armlx wrote:I felt he handled himself well enough in response to this last round of attacks that he isn't on my top scum list.

As for scummy vs scum, you seem to act like you only vote people you are sure are scum, not those who are scummy. Not the case. You attack people you think are scummy to garner responses to get reads to determine who is scum, then lynch them.
Eh.. I think it comes down to what a person has found that works for them. This is the first full sized game here that I was able to start in from the very beginning. My other games here I either joined into them after the wagon stuff was over, or it was a game with time and post limits, so band wagons were not going to be prevalent anyway. A majority of games I have played were offsite. They have all had 48 hour day phases and 24 hour night phases. There, literally, you can vote on someone and log off only to learn they were lynched an hour later.

So, maybe that is why I tend to be more cautious with my vote.
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Post Post #872 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:33 pm

Post by armlx »

Record long game here is over a year. No need to fear.
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Post Post #873 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:45 pm

Post by Lloyd »

TheSweatpantsNinja, I'm curious about your vote for Tlp.

In comparison, I find thenextepisode scummier than Tlp.
---
Battle Mage,

After some thought, I'm going to proxy my vote to you for today. I'm curious what you'll do with it.
Proxy to Battle Mage


The Proxy rule is explained at viewtopic.php?t=2974
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Post Post #874 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:58 pm

Post by killa seven »

TheSweatpantsNinja wrote:K7 may be fairly useless, but that's sort of how he rolls. I don't see how that's any worse than, say, rosso carne. Or tlp. Who should be lynched. I'm just saying.
best post yet.
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