Mafia 75: Return of the Mafia! TOWN WINS (really late)

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I think he was looking for some kind of motivation. I believe, armlx, it is a fruitless task.

Is lloyd's play thoroughly incomprehensible to everyone else, too?

I suppose at this point, I'd be down for a rosso or thenextepisode lynch, but I'd still prefer lynching tlp. I think people will say "he's being replaced," but I don't see why that's a reason not to lynch him.

[armlx]

I feel the same way about oEJo, but its generally accepted to let the replacement come in and at least say "Woah slow the hell down guys" as a player not playing can't defend themselves in any way.

[VanDamien]

This claim makes me uneasy.

From the time it took to make it - stringing it out while looking for the best possible fake.

To putting himself in the position of the only non-town kill last night.

To the method, and the "choice" he claims to be allowed. Throat-slash, to me, sounds much more Sk-ish.

Is lloyd's play thoroughly incomprehensible to everyone else, too?

No, he's asking to be run over by a bus by k7, to either prove or disprove that k7 can, in fact, choose his method of kill.

And that alone is enough for me to wait a day to lynch k7, who I think is probably lying.

Thenextepisode is definitely lying, though, and so my vote stands there.

[armlx]

VanDamien: 30 person game. Probably have a vig. Vig will kill Killa if he is lying.

Simple solutions to easy problems.

[Antithesis]

I agree the throat slash sounds a tad too much SKish. Plus, I kind of expected for an SK to be in a game of this size.

I dunno

[Battle Mage]

*sigh*

my plan works alot better with a claimed vig as opposed to a claimed SK. But ah well...

The flavour does sound alot like something Jordan would come up with, but its pretty obvious that the Shotgun kill is by a Vig, and not the 'brutally sliced up' one. rofl!

Id be happier if the actual vig would counter-claim at this point. That way we can be certain of Killa-scum, and have a confirmed innocent, and my scum-smashing plan can proceed!

Thinking about it, there isnt a single thing we can do with an SK atm. Cept lynch im.

Vote: Killa

lets end this day already.

BM

[Nemesis]

[quote="Peers"]

Vote: killa

Yeah, I'll join the wagon. Let's see if we can get a worth-while claim out of this.[/quote]

This screams scum to me, maybe too much so. But with the timing of the vote and everything, it just seems to be scummy.

[quote="Khelvaster"][quote="Imat"]Ok, not that everyone has the same opinion, but I'm really getting tired of people hiding behind the Meta. How people play the game takes a conscious effort. Therefore its not all too difficult to change the way you play. There's no possible way you can disregard Scumminess on the wisdom that "This is just how they play." So What? If thats how they play, lynch them every game. Scumminess should not and can not be ignored because thats just how they play. If they're lynched for playing like that, lesson learned. If not, we come to this situation where they could act as Scummy as they want and people will DEFEND them. Meta is NO excuse not to lynch. For all of you who believe Meta is equivalent to the Bible of Mafia, you're only making it harder for the Town to win. So please, lose the Meta idea that seven and Rosso, or any other player for that matter, are untouchable, it should not be considered at all in this lynch. And, back to my comment that play style can change: If they play as Town and act a certain way, whats stopping them from acting that same way as Scum with the knowledge that people will see this and say "Hey, they must be Town again." The only the holding them back is their own intelligence, and to insult that would be condescending. In other words, they ain't dumb, don't treat them as such.

And armlx, what about those two comments makes them "Good posting?" Do you have nothing of your own to add?[/quote]

Wow...this is the most manipulative post I've seen. Ever. You are trying to convince us that, in this game, it's best to lynch someone who we believe is town so that in other games those people will act better. I don't buy it. You're chasing a quicklynch.

Vote: Imat

[/quote]

He's only saying to lynch the people who act scummy... I don't think its vote worthy. I think your twisting of the post is a little scummy though.

[quote="Battle Mage"]this is shitelogic. You are making the assumption that people play intentionally scummy in the first place, and are thus easily able to change. If peoples natural play is viewed as scummy, it shouldnt be them who have to adapt, rather it is their fellow players who should learn to get a perspective on things. And tbh, if you come into games i play with some long term policy lynch strategy that will probably lose me a good few games, in the hope that one day, it might change something about that player, then you go on my official 'Evil' List. You cant lynch someone on the grounds that you cant read them and they COULD be scum, but you actually have no clue either way! -.-

BM[/quote]

Unfortunately this is for the most part true... A lynch all people with a scummy playstyle philosophy just gives you a scummy playstyle and makes yourself a candidate for your own lynches.

They never change.

[quote="curiouskarmadog"]speaking of not scum hunting, I am still waiting for Nem, to address my questions.
[/quote]

My apologies. I'll get right on that.

[quote="killa seven"][quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"][quote="killa seven"][quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]ugh, let's lynch killa then

Unvote Vote: Killah Seven

[/quote]
wtf does no one explain votes now.[/quote]We have a deadline. I don't need reasons.[/quote]
and i got bw for my vote on lloyd.. the nerve of this guy. ima go back and see what you have done at all in this game.[/quote]

The only scumhunting you'll do is when someone votes for you?

------------------ Here is my post that CKD replied to: ----------

[quote="Nemesis"][quote="curiouskarmadog"]so was my asking for a deadline anti-town or a powerful protown move?

Nem, you thoughts on others who support a retractable deadline? What about the first person you originally brought it up?[/quote]

I think it was an anti-town thing to do.

Supporting a retractable one seems questionable, more in a misguided sense than a scummy one though.

For the record, "retractable" wasn't in your request.

[quote="You"]
Mod, I think it is time to set a deadline![/quote]

[quote="The Mod"]EDIT: I think I agree with those discussing a deadline, due to the current length of Day 1, but I also feel the game is fairly active as well, so I will set a deadline for 2 weeks from now for Saturday 22nd March 9.00pm GMT. [/quote]

The mod edited his post, thus I'm giving you most of the credit for the deadline existing.

As for WhoMe? who brought the deadline, he asked the town what they'd think of one... You on the other hand directly asked the mod for one despite the majority of people being against a deadline, plus the conversation moving on.[/quote]

[quote="curiouskarmadog"]and those who support it?

umm, that that really isnt the facts was it?...the conversation got moving AFTER I asked for the deadline, why are you misrepresenting the facts?...look at the conversation (content and frequency) before I ask for it and after....Nem, I would actually like you to comment on this, I am sure you want to back up your "facts"?[/quote]

Those who support it are few and far between. I suppose some people like being rushed into things... I don't know. Haste generally doesn't help causes.

I love the last line, I'm fairly sure I don't mention facts in my post at all... You do a bunch of times, you called them facts.

And I actually went back to your deadline demanding post (746) before I realized... I don't even know what "facts" you're going on about.

The conversation moving on from deadlines was what I was talking about... (When I said the conversation had moved on... ) I don't deny deadlines create panic discussion/voting, and I know they get things done... (Although often in the worst possible way.)

But as you seem to want me to prove your deadline has done nothing for discussion, I think I'll take a look.

About a page and a half before you asked for the deadline there were a fair amount of posts and most of them had some content.

After you asked for the deadline the content went down but the frequency went up. Unfortunately a lot of these were talking about the deadline...

So no, I don't think your deadline has been that effective.. Although generally it is near the end of the deadline that frenquency goes through the roof with all the "vote for X, it's a deadline"... But my dislike of deadlines is the actual lynch itself... That's what days build up to and the scum benefit from deadlines when it comes to the lynch.

Deflecting, no lynching, panic lynching, etc... Or even having the scum's percentage of lynching votes go up... The deadlines helps them more than us and I don't see the discussion you wish to be credited with as worth it. I suppose the accuracy of the discussion may help somewhat... But we won't know anything about that for a long time.

I've already seen "I don't need reasons to vote, there's a deadline" and I will give you the credit for that... All the credit you want. Congratulations.

Hopefully he comes up anti-town, else I can add "deadlines are an excuse to vote for whoever the hell you like without giving reasons for your vote" to my list of stuff I hate about them.

I'm sorry I'm not posting the stats you seem to be asking for, but people can bend stats however they want anyway. If you wanted you could probably find statistical evidence for anything.


[Quote=CKD"]if he is lying then the real vig will kill him tonight..so killa seven is not the lynch today.[/Quote]

The problem is the scum want to kill him too... So either the doc doesn't protect and he dies, or the doc protects and he doesn't...

[quote="Killa Seven"]
i figured in a game this large there would be more sum players so the chances of hiting a scummy player would be more likely. i killed jive machine, i was allowed to pick any style of killing as long as it was realistic. so i picked throat slashing.[/quote]

Oh God why? Throat Slashing screams SK.

If you are still allowed to pick any type of kill, kill me tonight by shooting me with a Sniper Rifle. (I was going to say shotgun, but that's been taken... Unfortunately Ex army has access to my "protown kills" as SK" *sigh*)

It was incredibly lucky of you to kill the anti town person. Congratulations. Out of all the kills that one was you.

We could have backup vigs, vigs, all kinds of stuff. I don't really like the claim.

Ninja edit: Apparently I'm not the only one here with a deathwish... I'm assuming you have the same role I do Lloyd, I'm cool with being killed tonight, if you do not have the same role I have, I ask you let me die instead.

[curiouskarmadog]

Nem, I think the point is probably moot at this point, there was no content before I asked for the deadline....which was the reason I asked for one. People were telling jokes and voting for themselves, it was ridiculous...now if we really want to argue the point more, I can go back and post all of the quotes that lead me to ask for one...as for the bit about there being less content since, that is either a out and out lie, or a stretch to prove a point that isnt really there...there has been ton of content....you have been around since 2005, so you should be able to recognize that...

as for Kill's claim...throat slashing screams SK...I was for letting him live and the real vig deal with him, but that means (if he is the SK) he gets another kill, and I am down with that.

Killa, did you answer the question why you decided to kill night 0?

[WhoMe?]

OK,

I was going to ask why in the world we would want to lynch a claimed vig, but CKD's post above made the point of if he is a SK, he gets another kill.

so trying to map this out

scenario a, he actually is a vig - lynching him is bad

scenario b, he is lying he is scum of the mafia kind - the real vig (if there is one) will kill him tonight - lynching him would be a waste, if we have a good alternative candidate, but if we have no good alternative, lynching him is beter than a mislynch

scenario c, he is lying and he is scum of the SK variety, all the points from scenario B apply, but we also have the chance of him killing again, and his kill may be town or scum.

in two of these scenarios lynching him ain't that bad. I think what will swing my decision is the availability of a good alternative lynch. I need to reassess and will come in with a vote on killa or a n other this weekend.

[curiouskarmadog]

in every game I have been in shotgunned, usually means vig kill....throat slashing or stabbing usually means SK...HAS anyone been in a game that it was the reverse?

[Nemesis]

Sorry, I was talking about each post and I only looked at a page and a half or so before and after you asked so the stage of the day didn't influence the amount of content. (The longer the game goes the more content you should see.) Where I went wrong is temporarily forgetting the word "quantity"

The content thing I mentioned was what I saw, without making detailed notes I generally saw a lot of posts with reasoning and stuff and a decent length before you asked for the deadline, afterwards I saw an increases in one liners. Which lead me to say the content was lessened, which I still think is partly true because the content per post was less than before. Whether the overall content was increased due to the sheer number of one liners I'm not sure... But if you had a case that'd be it.

Nem, I think the point is probably moot at this point,

Probably. But do you remember when you said deadlines can be retracted? Someone asked and just got the deadline extended. Thus I conclude that the worst part of a deadline is yet to happen and is now inevitable.

or a stretch to prove a point that isnt really there..

The point isn't really there. I didn't claim deadlines lowered discussion, I've only said they created rushed discussion, which is still more discussion. It was never my point that deadlines lower discussion rates. I'm still wondering how you managed to put that in my mouth.

there has been ton of content....

There was content before too...

there was no content before I asked for the deadline....which was the reason I asked for one. People were telling jokes and voting for themselves, it was ridiculous..

It got back on track before you asked for the deadline. Do to the beauty of having to find your deadline request and then reread posts around it I visited the page stretching chart a few times. The chart is after the self vote... There was a bandwagon because of the self votes... Stuff happened and at this point in time the damage from the self votes are gone, the deadline remains.

[Nemesis]

EBWOP that last post of mine was after 1007 and the whole thing replied to that.

Killa Seven chose his own kill. He picked a scummy one. I really wish he hadn't.


Whome? You are wrong. There are two scenarios.

A: He is proctected - he lives regardless of vig/mafia/SKs/etc targetting him.

B: He is not - he dies regardless of vig/mafia/SKs/etc targetting him.



Hidden option C is the roleblocker and luck option, I don't rely on that one.

[farside22]

I'm sorry Killa's comments are crap. Throat slashing is SK. If anything he should have some flavor text NOT A DIRECT QUOTE. That proves his statement of vig. I find it fasinating that before he claimed that this was said right before Killa Seven's "claim"

I love how nobody is considering that the Vigilante should target these consistantly scummy players. Don't lynch them; vig them. I was hoping I would need to suggest this, since it screams leading the vig, but seriously. Where has all the common sense gone?

[Battle Mage]

I know Jordan has wanted to mod a Bastard Mod style game, and the flavour kinda fits, but every fibre of my being says that Killa is SK, and Jordan isnt that cruel.

BM

[WhoMe?]

Given that he is claiming the throat slit, rather than the shotgunning (which sounds more viggish) I'm going to return my vote to killa. I agree with the people who have made cases for him being SK

vote killa seven

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I think reading too much into flavor is a Huge Mistake. The plan of letting the real vig kill him if he's lying is sound.

[Battle Mage]

I think reading too much into flavor is a Huge Mistake. The plan of letting the real vig kill him if he's lying is sound.

that plan falls very far short of 'sound'. Id rather not give an SK an extra kill if its all the same to you. -.-

BM

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Yeah, but what if he's not the SK? I'd rather not lynch the vig day 1.

[armlx]

I'd bet 1 extra random kill vs having a live vig.

[Battle Mage]

except maybe we want our live vig to be able to hit a lurker, or another scumbag. Intentionally slowing ourselves down is a bad idea in my mind.

BM

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

And if k7 isn't lying? But I suppose I wouldn't be opposed to a counterclaim.

[Battle Mage]

agreed. If everyone can post with 'not vig' unless they are the vig, thatll save time.

Not Vig.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Not vig. Obviously.

[farside22]

Vig
Nano targeted JDGA and no I don't know why since I didn't do it. I only have a shotgun to use as the vig. Please get rid of Killa now.
PS. I can try and summarize the flavor text if needed.

[Andycyca]

Not vig and waiting for K7' explanation (again)