Newbie 569: (Game Over)

[Chickenfish]

Confirmed!

[Chickenfish]

So uh...

Vote: WrathofShadows

for lurking?

[Chickenfish]

Chickenfish: why were you voting WrathofShadows?
Vampire: who do you hope to be the mafia?

Well mainly because I knew it wouldn't count and wanted to point out that nothing was happening in the game, but also to possibly start something happening in the game. (also, as it has been pointed out, random voting played a big part)

if you think something is

fishy

.

I take offense to that! (Not really (I've gotten in trouble for making jokes before so yeah, I was joking!))

I personally don't like random voting, because I don't think that random vote generates any info to the town. It is a copt-out.

For instance, you say you are pressuring "sonic", still your vote is on me. Don't you think that this is a bit contradictory?

Don't you think the fact that you say it doesn't generate info, and then go on to begin a discussion based on it is a bit contradictory?

[Chickenfish]

Although Chickenfish seems quite eager to do something. It's a bit fishy, if you asked me. *shot a second time for recycling a joke and for lameness*

Watch out guys I'm eager! Must be scum!

FoS:Sonic

.

[Chickenfish]

Yeah my post was kidna of an overeager post to add to the joke... too subtle I guess!
Although puns are to jokes what mime is to acting, so pun use is scummy enough in my opinion
Also

Vote: Claus

for my previously pointed out contradiction.

[Chickenfish]

@ Chickenfish

Don't you think the fact that you say it doesn't generate info, and then go on to begin a discussion based on it is a bit contradictory?

Not completely Let me try to rephrase that.

All votes bring info. You vote because you find someone scummy. You vote because you want to extract reactions from someone. You vote because you want to distance yourself from someone. So when someone votes, you look at that vote, try to imagine the reasoning behind it, and see if that reasoning makes sense as town, and as scum. Then you can hold someone responsible for their vote.

And this is the problem with random votes. They have no responsibility.

"why did you vote like that? Oh because it was random" - open and close, there is nothing you can follow on from there.

Unless, of course, you suspect the vote is not so random. Which was the case of my comment - I find it a bit suspect to slap a "random" vote on one person, and then question a completely different person, to the point of saying "sorry if I'm putting too much pressure".

Does this make more sense to you?

The bolded bit is only a problem for mafia. Who cares if they have no responsibility? Any vote after the first is obviously not entirely random, and nobody leaves their random vote on somebodywhen it looks like they're going to be lynched unless they have a damn good reason. However, mafia can never truly random vote because they have information, and so something can be read from it. Also, the rest of your post all seems a little overeager to me, my vote stays where it is...

[Chickenfish]

FOS:sonic

Why would you put claus at L-1? There has been very little contribution so far, only page 2.

A townie would not try to go for a lynch this soon.

I know your a little new, but try not to make a mistake like that, it could cost us a quick lynch.

Claus was at L-2 for long enough that everyone but quintox and roland could have placed the third vote and the hammer. So, what I can gather at least one of the following is scum: Claus, chickenfish, sonic, quintox, roland, or less likely TVD since he dropped his vote.

That doesn't narrow it down much now.... If only roland and quintox posted before now.

UNVOTE

This post is pretty much entirely wrong, except for the boled bit, which actually contradicts the rest of your argument.
L-1 is perfectly acceptable this early, because the only person who would hammer is scum, so they would have to reveal themselves to do so, and as such would actually help the town. also, with Claus being L-2, if the mafia BOTH hammered, then they have once again revealed themselves except it is totally game over, so that would never happen either. That was possibly the least logical post I could imagine.

FoS: Battousai

[Chickenfish]

Chicken, I can see where you are trying to make sense of the situation, but you should be a bit more open to other possibilities.

The mafia in this game, I would assume, aren't as stupid as I would like them to be.

Otherwise, that would just make things easier for us. In the meanwhile, we must analyze the situation carefully before doing something as dangerous as an L-1.

(Bolding mine) Once again, the bolding is exactly WHY L-1 isn't as dangerous as you make it out to be, and it's a good way to put people under pressure. I was at L-1 from page 3 until page 9 or so in the game I just played, and there was still one mafia around who didn't vote for me. There were also a few first-timers as well, and they knew it was the wrong thing to do to lynch me, so they didn't.
I'm not particularly agreeing with the L-1, but I'm certainly not DISagreeing with it as strongly as Batt was. Also

FoS: Batt

for

So, what I can gather at least one of the following is scum: Claus, chickenfish, sonic, quintox, roland, or less likely TVD since he dropped his vote.

Considering there are 7 people in this game, and even if you do suspect yourself to be scum (?) you wouldn't mention it, I can't say this is a truly incredible deduction. Seems like maybe you wanna be seen to be doing something but your not actually?

[Chickenfish]

@Chickenfish you might have another explanation beyond these two but if you had to choose (and I assume you would go with b) I would like to ask you why you think sonic is town.

I don't particularly think sonic is town, but I'm not gonna jump up and say 'he L-1ed someone, he must be scum!'.
If I was to say "I like potatoes", and someone replied "He likes potatoes, he must be scum!", you wouldn't neccesarily have to believe I was town to tell them their logic is faulty would you?

[Chickenfish]

Yes, but you also have to take into account the fact that saying 'he's not scum for that' is not nearly the equivalent to saying 'he's town'

[Chickenfish]

You also have to take into account (:P) that my initial potatoes argument was in response to

@Chickenfish you might have another explanation beyond these two but if you had to choose (and I assume you would go with b) I would like to ask you why you think sonic is town.

So I was just trying to point out that saying sonic's act wasn't entirely scummy, that doesn't follow on to I think sonic's town. While it can seem like a scummy act from sonic, I don't think it's nearly as big a deal as Battousai was making out in post 50.

[Chickenfish]

I'm sorry Quitex but your analysis is way off. Absolutely NOBODY would hammer, especially now that you have included all that analysis saying 'anyone who hammers is scum'. Even if you hadn't included that, of course scum wouldn't vote, it's just plain dumb. Also, if Claus is lynched scum, it's quite likely his partner DOES have a vote on him, as to not seem protective of him. I actually believe that now that you can vote him without lynching, you have done that to both look town, and to distance yourself if he does turn up scum. I also like how you've said 'oh and if you guys vote me you must be scum as well'. You've pretty much covered all bases, and your post has convinced me that you and Claus are partners.
I ask everyone to reread Quitex's faulty logic from the point of view of him and Claus being partners, and see how much sense it makes. I really, really think Claus and/or Quitex need to be lynched today.

[Chickenfish]

Ok Quitex, your arguments are just getting worse by the minute, seriously.

You reacted so agressively but you didn't placed a vote on me. Again, why? Because it'll be easier to lynch Claus if the 2 scums are already boting for him. And if you say "No one will hammer him" but you still hold the vote on him, what sense does that make? I DARE you that if you're really so "pro town" to change your vote, scum.

Once again, all you've done here is say 'No matter what you do, all you're doing is showing your scum'. Setting me up with no way out is incredibly scummy, so much so that I think I will take your advice and

Unvote, Vote: Quitex

Also, why unvote Claus? Is it because your distancing plan backfired and it actually looked like your buddy was going to get lynched? This is the only logic I can find to support it.
Also Claus, your big posts, all you did was summarise the game. You gave VERY little new information, which only adds ot my overeager opinion of you. To satisfy Quitex (because apparently outright telling people you think they're scum isn't enough),

FoS: Claus

. Especially for

His accusations of QX border the OMGUSy

I understand there is a high level of suspicion on me, but trying to tell people that me blatantly disproving Quiterx's theory is OMGUS, even when I didn't vote for him? It's pretty low.
Also you seem to have convinced people that my vote was on you for 'differences of playstyle', whereas my vote was on you because 'your playstyle made you look like scum'. These are two very different things, so misrepresenting my position also adds to your overall scuminess.
However, for Quitex's insane overreaction and terrible logic throughout this game, he definitely seems like the better candidate.

[Chickenfish]

Was I the one overreacting? LOL, poor poor kid.
After today we know not just that you're very, very scummy, but a big drama queen.
I dont give a sh*t if you're voting for me.

Haha, yes you were, and still are, the one overreacting. Emotion = overreaction!

[Chickenfish]

Scums goes for a Quicklynch, and the fastness of CF's and Sonic's votes on claus and the fact that none of them were taken when I placed him at L-1 makes me think as well that they *WANTED* a Quicklynch.

What you seem to be missing is that I thought, and still do think, that Claus is scum. Also, as argued before (even by yourself in a relly strange way), an early L-1 will NOT cause a lynch, as town don't want it and scum are smart. You are trying to create suspicion where there is none, which points to one thing that I think we all know... scum!

[Chickenfish]

THATs specifically is the reason. Look: You both are hiding in the fact that no one will be too stupid for hammering. So you get your hands clean when telling that "town is not wanting a lynch and scums won't be able to be called out".

You are going to look mighty silly when it is revealed that I am in fact town (whether it be due to lynched, NK, or end of game) and you see that I am not in fact 'hiding in facts' but 'stating facts'. Unless, of course, 2 of you, sonic, and Claus are scum (which I believe you and Claus are). So either way you either don't know what your talking about, or your getting your frustration about the fact that you haven't been able to lynch anyone out on me by trying to make it look like my problem. It is highly possible there has been no lynch yet because 2 of the people who are high on people's suspicion (you and Claus) are scum.

[Chickenfish]

@Claus: I haven't replied to your question because my vote was already explained - it's like asking Quitex to tell me why he thinks sonic and I are scum...
If you read back to the initial voting post you'll see there why I voted (although it was more one of those transitions from random to actual voting), and then whenever you posted something I disagrred with/thought dodgy I pointed it out, so I'm not really sure what else you want me to say...

@roland & QX: The point of that post was to have a go at Quitex repeatedly saying 'you are hiding behind facts', which I don't even understand. If it's a fact, it is a solid argument, not something to hide behind. My argument of 'nobody would have hammered there' is a simple truth, and I don't understand how Quitex can't see that.

[Chickenfish]

@Claus: I haven't replied to your question because my vote was already explained - it's like asking Quitex to tell me why he thinks sonic and I are scum...

You see, here is the problem. It seems to me that you are starting to see the game in terms of "teams" - me and Quitex against you and Sonic. I did the very same mistake in my first game here.

I was never putting you two in a team, I was merely using an in-game example. Also, where did I say sonic and I were a team. I am not defending sonic and everybody else has said sonic and I are a team ever since I said 'L-1ing on page 1 is not scummy' Also, if you want an example of you forming teams:

Also, a second question I made to you, which you did not answer, is: what do you think of my reasons to find Sonic scummy? Do you agree/disagree with them, and why?

What relevance does my opinion have (obviously we should all be collaborating, but why MY specific opinion)? As for what you said about sonic - I can see where you are coming from, but I personally disagree with it. Especially the use of 'bloodthirsty'. Overexaggerating much?

As for why I think you're scummy:
Initial vote was for making contradictions like 'randomvoting gives no info' and 'all votes give info'. After that you seemed to be trying to lead the town into doing what you wanted it to do, such as 'What do you think of this Chickenfish?' and asking questions of people who were seemingly irrelevant to the statements. Since then it has been some sort of cross between overeagerness and simply turning a blind eye to the obvious idiocy of Quitex that makes me suspicious. If I have been acting as if this is being played in teams, which I don't see (mainly because I don't see myself in a team with anyone), it is because you and Quitex both seem to have a similar agenda for no apparent reason.

Now onto the looney

You're telling it's a fact no one will hammer. Why you that sure? Because you and your scump already voting for Claus?

Given the post "I am putting Claus at L-1 so that when he gets lynched we will know the person who hammered is scum', I think it's pretty safe to say noone will hammer. Sign up for a reality check and then I might take you seriously.

[Chickenfish]

I see your posts as a jumbled mess - If you are scum, you are trying to hide the wholes in your logic by shouting very loud and waving a lot. If you are town, this exercise may help you see if there is something wrong in your logic.

Also, can you tell me how my posts are a jumbled mess? They are set into paragraphs each relating to a seperate issue. How could I make it neater? Perhaps if I didn't check for typos and spoke in broken English like Quitex you'd understand them better? Once again, how can you accuse me of something like that when it isn't even apparent, and yet turn a blindeye to the fact that Quitex's posting is, in fact, a jumbled mess

[Chickenfish]

EBWOP: Obviously the previous post's quote was from Claus... how ironic I'd stuff that up in a post about jumbled posts....

[Chickenfish]

@sonic If you had to pick three people in order of most scummy who would they be?

I am a little concerned that people keep confusing me with others (that quote is from vampire, not me) which could make this game suck... can we try to make sure we know who we're talking about?

@Quitex: I was, in fact, NOT insulting your broken English, and I highly suspected it wasn't your first language anyway, and as such would mean no offense. I was more pointing out that Claus had a go at me for apparent 'jumbled posting', which comes across as odd in the contrast. That is all.

@vampire: Do you find it convenient to not be placed in a team, so that you can pretty much do a bunch of fence sitting? You don't actually seem to be contributing much, just rehashing other peoples points then asking questions that don't actually help us find scum.

FoS: vampire

@sonic:

I believe there's a scumminess in Chickenfish. He acted in a bit of a strange way to Claus's jumbled posts comment. I don't think that he could've accidentally interpreted as the comment being directed toward his spelling/grammar. He seemed like he was trying to avoid the subject of his possible scumminess, very suspicious.

FoS: Chickenfish

Can I please know how my posts could be considered jumbled? Also, when someone says "Your posts are jumbled and I think you are using jumbled posts to hide scuminess", a defense of "I dont think my posts are jumbled. Can you explain how they are, also why are you ignoring other jumbled posters?", how is that an odd reaction? I never interpretted it a being about my spelling/grammar either. As for 'avoiding the subject of my possible scuminess', I directly answered an accusation of jumbled posting, something which Claus found suspicious. After all this time of, let's face it, doing very little, you come out with "CFs scum because he misinterpretted an inconsequential post". Is there more or is that really the only reason, cos that's just lame...

@Everyone: Can we please try to get out of the 'team game' thinking. It will only hurt the town. I am clearly not in a 'team' with sonic, rolland and Batt are only in a 'team' because they weren't posting much, and Claus and Quitex are in a 'team' because once upon a time I said I thought they were scum. Sure, they seem to be defending each other and ignoring each other's flaws a whole lot, which only adds to my suspicions, but this doesn't make them some sort of 'team' unless they actually are scum. If you look at it like a team game, when one of the air comes up scum/town, you will be inclined to think the other is of the same alignment, based on nothing other than the 'team' they were in.

Fixed pair of tags

[Chickenfish]

Argh I suck at remembering to quote things properly. The 2nd quote from sonic ends at "

FoS: Chickenfish

" in case it wasn't obvious...

[Chickenfish]

Ok im sorry if you dont like how I'm playing but I'm trying to do my best. Remember this is my first game.

First time players can be scum. I'm not saying 'you know who sucks at this game: you', I'm just posting my thoughts which helps people sometimes more than direct questions. What are your thoughts on everyones scuminess?

[Chickenfish]

vampire, when i was saying 'post your thoughts', I didn't mean absolutely everything, but for example:

Chickenfish your thoughts were an acusation against me followed by a FoS all of a very unsabstantial nature.......

Did anybody ask you whether you thought my FoS was unsubstantial, yet you posted it anyway. It is relevant to the game, so I'm not going to go and

just ignore them if I wish to do so.

Also, when it comes to the teams thing, in regard to Quitex and Claus I said

Claus and Quitex are in a 'team' because once upon a time I said I thought they were scum. Sure, they seem to be defending each other and ignoring each other's flaws a whole lot, which only adds to my suspicions, but this doesn't make them some sort of 'team' unless they actually are scum.

Now, I personally believe they are the two mafiates in this game, so it is perfectly valid for me to see them as a team. However, this doesn't mean I think I am with sonic or rolland and Batt are together, and nor does it mean that everyone should be talking about the 'Claus Quitex team'. The fact is, scum are knowingly a team, so if you think you know the 2 scum, you think they are a team, even if they don't seem to have anything to do with each other. Conversely, if you aren't sure on a pair but have individual suspicions, or if you DO think there is a pair going on, don't put EVERYBODY into pairs, it just doesn't make sense.
Also, as for my 'unsubstantial accusation',

Ok well thanks sonic but still not much help...........'
In fact a 3 person list from everyone would be great include reasons if you want or not........so to start here is mine

1)Qx the gambit/scenario post and then the following reactions threw him right up there and he might be coming down but at a very slow rate.

2)Sonic ok placing him here is half out of frustration half out of suspicion. Does not seem to bring much to the discusion and I find it very hard to get a read on him because of this. If you arent going to be bolder and contribute more then you will most likely be lynched.

3)rolandgarros still building my case here but from looking at his post so far im happy to give him 3rd spot. Has made two strange comments related to Qx with out backing them up with anything and both using the word we......"we can make a judgment from this" & "we can probably get results from it." Also see my last post @ roland.

You post your 3 scum, with brief justification, and now rather than actively participate in scumhunting you say 'so what do YOU think of this?' rather than saying 'this is how I see it' which both provides us with your opinion, as well as effectively asking people the question anyway as people will generally agree with/challenge major points anyway. I am not saying you are scum, I am merely saying that your accusations of rolland/Batt being unhelpful, while I did agree with them, are a tad hypocritical.

Why do you think your thoughts will help people more than direct questions?

I think EVERYONE's thoughts will help more than direct questions of 'What do you think of vampire saying that Batt's claims about Quitex were argued against by Chickenfish?'

[Chickenfish]

A little bit of reasons why..
First @ Sonic, for giving way no new info in several calendar days,

also for his obvious alliance with CF by defending each other repeteadly.

I would absolutely LOVE examples other than me saying 'L-1ing early isn't bad'. I'm serious here, I will be VERY surprised if you can find another example. This overexaggeration is just retarded.
Another pearl:

First, dear CF, how in the world you've helped to this game if more than the half of your posts have been OMGUSing me?

I think you'll find OMGUS stands for 'Oh My God U Suck', not 'You're Arguments Are Rediculous Find Some Logic'. If you were to say "Chickenfish is scum: here's why", and I was to vote you with little to no justification, that is OMGUS. If you come out with crap like "You must be scum because obviously mafia would have fallen into my trap that I said was a trap but they didn't", and I tell you it's wrong, that is not OMGUS.
How can people sit by and let Quitex make rediculous posts like this? Am I really the only one who sees how unbelievably wrong they are?

[Chickenfish]

What out of this do you find unhelpful...........?
What out of this do you agree with................?
What out of this do you find hypocritical.......?

I'm not trying to tell you that I think you're scum, I'm just pointing out that asking for specific things it not the way to go about it. For example, those questions you asked. Without the questions, the post you made still invites answers to those questions, as this whole game is about people's opinions of everyone else. However, if you were to ask this of a scum, he/she could say
I find this unhelpful
I agree with this
I find this hypocritical
By doing this, you allow scum to get away with just answering specific questions, rather than having to post a structured response that can cause accidental slip-ups. Also, if you ask the questions of me, scum can sit in the dark and go 'my opinion wont be missed'. That is what I find unhelpful and hypocritical about it - it brings less information to the town than if you were to not ask the questions at all.
So maybe I'm stressing this too much, and don't think you did anything to provoke it, I was more just pointing out the game as I saw it.
As for my list of three, it's probably retty obvious Quitex then Claus are my top suspects. Past that I don't really know, as if one of them turns out town I'll have to look for other connections between the remaining one and someone else, and if they both turn out town I'd be at a total loss. If I had to name a third I'd probably say Batt based on my very early suspicions, but it's not really relevant in comparison to how suspicious I am of Quite and Claus.
I will once again ask my question (hypocritical I know but this is an important specific example, and at least I'm asking everyone):
Am I the only one who sees how illogical Quitex's "theories" and posting has been? I would really like to know...
And Claus:

About Quitex, I have not read quitex that closely. A quick re-read of his posts got me confused (his posts are very messed up - a bit like the CF, but without the fury). The big red sign in Quitex play is his "I'm sure roland is town, I know his playstyle". I have not seen roland as that town - he is simply not participating in the game much.

This is just dumb. One of the major candidates for scum who has probably been the biggest part of this game you "haven't read closely"? And my "fury" is just frustration that nobody seems to be able to see how wrong Quitex is. I also would have thought the big red sign would be EVERYTHING he has said making little to no sense

[Chickenfish]

You say that without the questions I would invite people to answer those questions anyway? This makes no sense whatsoever as those questions wouldn't be there to answer. Sorry if im not following you here but this is just plain illogical.

It is not the case with all questions, and when you call people out for scummy acts. However when you ask other people things to the effect of what they think about YOUR post, this is unnecessary. For example, after my post, even though I didn't ask "do you agree/disagree with this line of thinking?" (a qeustion you more or less asked me in a few posts), you still posted saying it was illogical. This is what I mean by you answering questions that it was unnecessary for me to post, because the very nature of the post invited the answer anyway.
Also I did mean scum can not post, because if we make this a Q&A forum, scum could easily just lurk and then when they're picked up on it say "nobody was asking me anything and all my questions were already being asked". Once again, nothing to make a big deal out of, and it seems to just be a playstyle difference between you and I.

So, there seems to be two candidates right now, sonic and QX for lynch. I think we should narrow it down to these two candidates for a moment, since they seem somewhat suspicious to everyone else (I believe at least one is on everyone's top 3 scum list).

Can I get Vampire's and CF's position on QX and why they feel comfortable voting that way. Then could I get the same thing from QX's and Claus' votes on Sonic.

Then after that, could sonic and QX defend the previous posts after all the points were made by the previous 4? No commenting until all 4 have posted their reasons.

This seems pretty unfair as I believe I'm at least at or near the top of Quitex's and vampire's lists, and if I'm not mistaken sonic's list as well. Also, the 'nobody else post til this has happened' (if that's what you meant by it) is bascially just excusing you and rolland for what is already borderline lurking.
And if you need us to post reasons why our votes are where they are then you obviously just haven't been reading the majority of the game, which scares me.
Also, URGENT QUESTION: DOES ANYBODY ELSE REALISE HOW ILLOGICAL QUITEX HAS BEEN?
I apologise for this but vampire is the only one (and I guess Claus kinda just gave a 'meh' answer) who has answered, and it's kind of important that I know I'm not going insane.

I find doing this to be helpful to me and many times to others, to stop going around in circles, but to focus on the "facts".

[Chickenfish]

Adressing my last comment. You say Vampire does irrelevant questions.... so can you please explain me how "Relevant" is that question, CF? Will that question give everyone a sense of how scummy I am, or just will make your insanity a little bit more... sane?

In all honesty it is just to make me feel a bit more sane - your posts are just so blatantly illogical I can't see why nobody else has picked up on it. And please, PLEASE, look up OMGUS. It does NOT MAKE SENSE in the context you are using it in

[Chickenfish]

OMGUS stands for Oh My God You Suck. Its more commonly used for random votes, but, you're picking n me for no other good reason than your sanity. So you're saying my posts aren't logic, therefore they suck. It's an OMGUS comment in all the expression.

This goes for Claus as well:
I'm not just sitting here insulting you. I'm merely pointing out that everything you've said is illogical. That's not the same thing, and I can see why people might think I'm pouring emotion into this but I'm really not, I just find it strange that nobody realises how little sense your posts make.

Example of OMGUS:
Q: I vote for Chickenfish because [insert reason here]
Me: I vote Q because he voted me OR I vote Q for [insert poorly contrived reasons]

What actually is happening:
Q: Clearly Chickenfish is scum because nobody hammered in my trap
CF: Nobody would have hammered in your trap, and since then your posts have struggled to have any logical reasoning, I'll vote you.

See the difference? This is not OMGUS, unless it stood for "Oh My God Ur Scum". I'm not just attacking you because it makes me feel good, I'm arguing my case that I think you're scum. If whenever someone was accused of being scum the person who got accused got insulted and said it was OMGUS this game just wouldn't work.

@Claus on the sonic issue: You have an interesting point with sonic not particularly answering your questions, but it pales next to Quitex for me at the moment...

[Chickenfish]

After your post sonic I'm actually pretty close to voting you it was that bad... after a game this long that's all you've got?
And rolland, I think you'll find as well as what you call 'pointlessa rguing' with Quitex I have actually been discussing things with other players...
As for defending myself from the lynch - if people think I'm scum what could I possibly do to convince them otherwise? I don't see the emotion in my posts that is apparently there, and I certainly don't feel it, and I know I'm not scum. If Quitex is town (unlikely) then I'm screwed, but I have stayed ot my convictions and tried to not only tell Quitex I think he's scum, but tell everyone and try to convince them the same way.
After all this time I'm yet to see an example other than my VERY FIRST post regarding sonic that implies that the two of us were ever 'buddying up', but I guess it's just easier to say than to actually provide evidence for.
If you have any questions feel free to ask them, but will they actually change your opinion? Also, vampire, you and I both know that you are taking what I said out of context.

[Chickenfish]

oh well Qx saying claus is th most pro town would look very bad for claus day two if Qx is lynched as scum ...........but that doesnt mean Qx is not scum, more likely that Qx & Claus are not scum.

If Qx is lynched as scum its kind of a WIFOM nulltell. It's quite possible the most obvious 'trying to make his buddy look good', but it's equally possible that he's seeing the possibility of being lynched so wants to make it LOOK like he's buddying up with Claus, making us suspicious of a towny.
However I would like to know how Qx calling Claus protown makes it more likely that neither are scum, I'm not following that logic.

also I do see CFs point that he was seen early to defend sonic or more rather sonics L-1 move and when I asked about this I got some incoherant mumbling about potatoes and I guess it has stuck ever since with the help of Qx.

The 'mumbling about potatoes' was my stupid way of trying to say 'supporting a theory isn't the same as supporting the person who posed the theory'. If anybody have had put the L-1 there I would have had the same reaction and said it wasn't necessarily scummy.

Ha sure taking things out of context is always fun but I don't see it as malicious in this case.

It wasn't malicious at all, but it was antitown. When trying to decide between three people, starting out without a level playing field stops the town from getting the appropriate information to base our lynch on. I never said to not ask people questions when you have specific questions of them, but more don't ask people questions about the post you've just made, as people will respond anyway. (note that not a single question was posed in your post and I'm giving you more than you usually get). If you have any questions about actions I've made earlier in the day that you think need justifying feel free to ask.

Strange then that CF has stuck to this theory most of the game

If everyone saw things the same way, we would be having no trouble deciding a vote. You saw something that you interpretted as a protown move or some such and I didn't interpret it that way. How is that weird?

[Chickenfish]

If everyone saw things the same way, we would be having no trouble deciding a vote. You saw something that you interpretted as a protown move or some such and I didn't interpret it that way. How is that weird?

Very.
Veeeery weird.
Town will NEVER think as scum.
Scum will try to think as town.
The fact that you see something completely different from someone tells that you'll likely be not as him. If he ends being town, you are most likely to be told as scum.

Ok so I was away for WAY too long.
Firstly, let me point out that nowhere did I even say in that post that I was thinking as scum. I was merely saying that vampire and I interpretting a situation in different ways doesn't make my actions weird. However, your reaction, Quitex, really only adds to the desperate look you have of pinning as much crap on everyone as you can while you have the chance, in the hope that the miracle fo someone agreeing with one of your posts will occur, then you can try to steer attention away. All I can make out from the last few pages is that you are becoming more and more desperate, and that suddenly from not being in consideration, roland is now probably my #2 suspect.
vampire: if you truly want Qx lynched, why the vote on roland?

[Chickenfish]

Because democracy is overrated.

I'm inclined to disagree with this, but I'm also disagreeing with vampire.
vampire, voting with the masses is not actually democracy, it is being led. If you let yourself be led in this game, you'll find you don't get very far, as eventually you just turn into a bandwagonner. Democracy is what this game is - everybody votes for who they want lynched, and the person with the most votes is lynched. So, in ths game, democracy isn't overrated, but it certainly isn't what vampire is making it out to be.
Don't vote because people tell you to, or because everyone else is - vote because you want to see the person you're voting for lynched

[Chickenfish]

Silent Killer: I meant that he knows how to give surprises to the people that aren't awared of what's goin on, and most of those cases they end up being scums. I was not talking about a serial killer or scum. I was describing how I see hsiw ay of playing this.

That just totally confused me.
Also vampire the problem with the chart is also that nobody would include themself, so for any 1 person, if both scum and 1 townie are after them, that will more or less make them equal 1st, unless all of the other 4 townies list the one person as their top suspect.

[Chickenfish]

I'm with vampire here on you being VERY unhelpful roland... it's just plain frustrating

[Chickenfish]

Qx, roland is deliberately ignoring vampire's questions which is unhelpful - I am enjoying more and more your weak attempts to make everything I do scum. roland justified himself (well, cryptically said things may not be what they seem), and for the moment that's good enough for me.
it's also entertaining you acting as if you know exactly what roland is doing, when I think it's safe to say none of us know quite yet. I'm just hoping it's helpful...

[Chickenfish]

Hehe, did it without reading you asked for it. See? I have nothing to hide.

Basically, I think you should take the hint from more or less everyone: you're full of it Qx. You're posts make no sense, and are completely illogical.

Again, Cf, how roland is being unhelpfun at your OWN POINT OF VIEW?

All I did was agree with vampire in about half a line and you make it look like I've committes murder. As for me not helping - i have been actively participating in the discussion with VALID AND LOGICAL posts. The only thing you've helped us with the

entire game

is to make us realise you are most likely scum, or that your arguments are flawed and it will be hard to take anything you say seriously, even if you are town.

[Chickenfish]

Can I point out that we were actually close to a lynch, then you guys went off on 2 pages of one line posts about nothing. vampire, you said you can back out of it at any time: back out. You guys aren't helping us find scum, so just stop. Same goes roland, if you want to teach vampire something I think you've probably made whatever point you were trying to make - so come out with it so we know what you were doing. Otherwise stop wasting time...

[Chickenfish]

picked up the prod. Sorry about that people. Allow me some time to catch up with the recent posts.

24 hours seems long enough...

[Chickenfish]

Wow.... I REALLY don't know what to do...
With my main suspects gone (although as the day went on I was much less suspicious of Claus), I don't really have any idea. I got the impression that vampire was trying too hard with a lot of his stuff, but not to the extent where I'd lynch him...
I just don't know

FoS: roland

for voting in lylo

[Chickenfish]

Guys I would like all of your thoughts on why you Think claus was the nk choice

To me he seemed to have made his stand as town, and was probably the most useful player (when he was around).
As for the current situation, all that stood out to me was

Distancing myself from the lynch that I had no part of?

Having no part of it IS distancing. I'm inclined to look at the people not voting as opposed to those voting, as scum often do want to stay off the lynch as it is hard for them to find a good time to vote.

[Chickenfish]

He made his stand as town? What happened to him being scum.

I was really the only one who ever thought Claus was significantly scummy, and towards the end of the day I wasn't so confidant. If everyone but ONE person thinks someone is town, I'd say he'd made his stand as town.
Also I was never sure where I had OMGUSed QX, can somebody point it out? Or are we taking QXs ramblings as facts now?

[Chickenfish]

I was talking about the issue you had with QX with OMGUS.

Sure...
I just think I should point out that in every game I've played that has reached lylo someone who was really quiet the rest of the game suddenly becomes quite active in trying to find scum, and EVERY time that person has been scum. It makes sense really - make sure nobody suspects you, then come out and lead the town into a townie lynch
I'm lookin at you batt

[Chickenfish]

Alrighty then, so my guess as to why Claus was nightkilled? Probably to draw because he was pretty protown. It would make me seem shady as well. I would be the obvious choice for a Day 2 lynch. The most obvious choice at this point for a lynch, of course, is me then. However, I think that I'm being framed. If I were to think of another possible person other than myself who might have killed Claus, it would be Chickenfish. A few people found him pretty suspicious as well early game. It would help to frame me and/or trap the town in WIFOM.

however, the fact that you pointed that out now makes it a WIFOM for you being scum as well, because you may well have NKed Claus to be able to set up this scenario...

I've been posting once a day like I have been, except this weekend when I posted a little more because I had free time and needed to do a player analysis or whatever you want to call it, on the 3 most scummy people IMO. Roland, for his recent posts more than anything, and sonic and cf who have been very scummy throughout day 1. In no way did I try to lead the rest of the town towards a lynch. The only thing I done was try to narrow the town's focus onto 3 people (obviously I didn't include myself since I know I'm town) when at least 1 of them is scum.

More of the concern though, is that your posts have had a lot more content than usual, as you were more or less a non-entity on day 1. I do realise you aren't trying to 'steer the town', and maybe my phrasing was exagerrated.
Look at it if you are scum: You look at the '3 dodgiest players' - you now have the 5th (not yourself or those 3) person on your side. now one of the people you've chosen is your buddy. Now all you have to do is convince the 5th person that either of the other 2 townies are scum, and then that person votes and you win.
This is how it's gone in most games I've played, and that's why I'm suspicious of you.

[Chickenfish]

Hey all I'll be away over Easter, sorry

[Chickenfish]

I was more or less (leaning more towards less, but yeah) happy to go with this until you said 'anyone who rubishes this is scum' (not exactly, but close enough). Every time I see that phrase, as with QX yesterday, I just can't help seeing it as scum covering all bases. This doesn't mean I think you're scum vampire, but unfortunately because you think assuming you as town is a good move isn't enough reason for me to take it. Based on the process of elimination you're actually probably my top suspect, but not because of anything in particular, but more because nobody else seems to be as out there with their ideas (so basically because you command a lot of attention its what you get). In the end I'm really just not sure, but I'm just letting you know I can't go with ya on this one

[Chickenfish]

Is it more likely for me to attract suspicion knowingly onto myself as scum in Lylo or is it more likely I would do this as town to give town an edge in a difficult situation Lylo.

Haha biggest WIFOM ever.
vampire, before when I said you were my top suspect I pointed out it was just because the others seemed less likely, not because you'd done anything scummy. Now, however, I find you digging yourself deeper and deeper. Threatening to vote me because I didn't want to just assume for no good reason that someone (just so happens to be you) was town is no way to try to sway me to your side. Why are you pushing this so hard?

CF Qx used that term and was town so sure you might think scum when you hear that said but why use an example of a confirmed townie doing this.
Assuming me as town is a good move for town is what im saying and if you think about it it doesn't benifit me a great deal.

I'm not taking Qx as a valid example of normal play. Just because we now know he was town doesn't mean he made any more sense. Also townies have hammered townies before, but it's still something to be suspicious of.
And assuming you're town gives you no advantage? Surely you can realise thatthe only ones who know your alignment are you and the mafia (whether you're in the mafia or not), so just blatantly assuming you're town is probably the worst move we could make. If everyone proposed what you have, do you really think we should all believe everyone else was town?

[Chickenfish]

Well that's just plain retarded... If you're town you've just totally blown it for us...

[Chickenfish]

CFs post 416 seems very strange to me he didnt even want to try and convince me that he might be town but instead said if I'm town I've blown it. Well if he thought me town you would think he would be a little more concerned if he also was town.

I assumed everyone could figure out by my 'if you're town you've blown it' meant that I am in fact town, and a townie voting for a townie in lylo means game over... How is that not saying that I'm town?
I think jsut because I wasn't willing to openly accept your complete towniness is far from being scummy, and is actually a protown move. If I was to just let people slip by my radar because 'its better if theyre town', I would be seriously jeopardising the town's ability to analyse all our options.
And because of this you VOTE for me in lylo? That is why I said it's retarded - because it is.
As for your 3 options: because posting seems quite frequent in this game it is harder for scum to hammer, as they would have to somehow know the lynching vote could be placed before the initial townie vote was on to unvote. That said, the

Interesting development... Will post after orthodontist appointment

post could well have been roland trying to let his partner know he was online so they could hammer, so I'm still not 100% sure you're town. I'm probably about 75% sure, and in lylo, that is NOT ENOUGH TO VOTE.

[Chickenfish]

EBWOP: "still not 100% sure you're scum"

[Chickenfish]

someone has to place the first vote and if this does not lead to a scum win it does give the town at least one posible scum to look at.

because posting seems quite frequent in this game it is harder for scum to hammer, as they would have to somehow know the lynching vote could be placed before the initial townie vote was on to unvote.

Just thought I should point out I've already answered this before you even asked it. And I do in fact believe you're scum, but if you're not and I vote it gives the mafia twice us much chance to hammer without the townie being online to unvote...

FoS-that-would-be-a-vote-if-we-weren't-in-lylo: vampire

Is that better?

[Chickenfish]

A vote from you would just go further to prove that you are in fact scum so I can completely understand you not voting.

If you belive me scum you should have no worries as voting for me

, you do yourself no favours now by playing cautiously.

How would a vote prove I'm scum? And as for the bolded bit, are you just not listening to me?

[Chickenfish]

I will rephrase what I believe to be the most suspicious evidence indicating CF as scum......

Well that's just plain retarded... If you're town you've just totally blown it for us...

Lylo situation and CF gets a vote and this response follows.
Ok so CF thinks this retarded as

If I'm town

thats game over.

If I'm town (and CF is also town)

then I would certainly expect more than this brief comment as he would be right that would be game over but he does not even attempt to try and do anything. If I was a townie in this situation (and others imagine yourselves in this situation) I would put a bit more into it than thats retarded.

I actually did put a bit in. Posting one sentence from my posts and then saying it's all I put in is just blatant misrepresentation.

But wait he never said anything of the like at the time and instead later made some rather pointless coment about not being 100% sure but only 75%.

How is expressing my opinion pointless? You've just gone nuts today - day 1 you were great, but what is going on with you?

And why does CF need to be cautious well he doesn't as it is plainly obvious that one of us are scum.

Ok, this is the third, maybe fourth time I've had to do this. Read carefully, and don't just ignore what I'm saying vampire:

because posting seems quite frequent in this game it is harder for scum to hammer, as they would have to somehow know the lynching vote could be placed before the initial townie vote was on to unvote.

Considering you're so insitant on it though,

Vote: vampire

If you manage to post one logical argument (I'll be surprised) I may unvote, but it does seem like scum would have had sufficient time to hammer me. So, you're right, you are scum.

Go back over the whole thread to get a full view on whom you think most likely.

Not even trying to be subtle about abusing the 'good position' you set up for yourself on day 1...

[Chickenfish]

3. I feel as if I have read your posts carefully, but If you feel there is something I am overlooking then please outline it for me

Every time I have quoted myself in my posts to you, that is what I have been talking about. Read it carefully. I have explained a situation in which it is possible both of us are town, hence my hesitance.

So you waited all this time to see if you got hammered before deciding I must be scum. So before now, in all that time you have been playing with say a 25% belief that I could be town? Go back try again.......If you had been playing & posting with
a certain 25% chance or belief of me being town then you would most certainly be more overly concerned with it being game over for town; that is if you were town.

See above for why I was holding my vote back. As for concern that the game is over - obviously I am concerned, but I can't do anything to stop it if you're not mafia. You're convinced (based on the fact that I don't agree with your logic - think about it, this is the only reason you voted for me in the first place) that I'm scum, and so I can't change your mind. And i certainly couldn't convince the scum (if not you) to not hammer me. But, as I pointed out, due to the length of time my situation in which you could be town has become increasingly more likely, and so I voted for you

[Chickenfish]

See above for why I was holding my vote back. As for concern that the game is over

Concern that the game could be over...then you act cautious and sit and wait for a belived possible hammer. As town this makes no sense. It could soon be game over dang that sucks oh well I will wait and see.

Please stop misquoting me. What I said was

As for concern that the game is over - obviously I am concerned, but I can't do anything to stop it if you're not mafia. You're convinced (based on the fact that I don't agree with your logic - think about it, this is the only reason you voted for me in the first place) that I'm scum, and so I can't change your mind. And i certainly couldn't convince the scum (if not you) to not hammer me.

I have also explained why I didn't vote for you immediately - why do you keep ignoring me? Oh that's right, you're scum. All you have to do is make me look bad with dodgy logic, hoping I get lynched before anyone realises. On day 1 there was something to be done about QXs bad logic - if you were town there was nothing I could do about getting hammered, but there was still no reason to vote for you. However, after me NOT being hammered, I realised you are right in that you are scum.

[Chickenfish]

EBWOP:

On day 1 there was something to be done about QXs bad logic - if you were town...

For clairty, that should be:
On day 1 there was something to be done about QXs bad logic -

but today

if you were town...[/

[Chickenfish]

His reaction to this is very much similar to his reaction to QX day one, which is try and completly break down the accusors validity in the other townies eyes.
His posts become jumbled his logic faulty but his convictions only gains strength. To me very typical of paniced scum.

Can you point out ONE example of faulty logic please?

CF is scum with no other means to try and escape lynching other than trying to criticize my logic. Every post of his will be trying to discredit my arguments against him and no doubt will become more paniced.

Once again, the "disagreeing means you're scum" argument.
I am criticizing your logic because it's so criticizably bad - all you can do is repeatedly tell me "you're logic is dodgy" without any examples...

[Chickenfish]

all you can do is repeatedly tell me "you're logic is dodgy" without any examples...

please back this up with something otherwise it means nothing and show complete hypocrasy.

Ok so maybe poorly worded, but you conitnually tell me I'm wrong and you're right without backing it up. It's just frustrating. I don't know why I'm trying to convince you I'm town, you already know that.

[Chickenfish]

Your entire post is misrepresenting everything I said.
The other game I played was Newbie game 519, where I was at L-1 from pretty much page 3 til page 9, and the person who did it was town - surprise!
Also, can you make up your mind - am I using the phrase 'faulty logic' too much or am I 'discrediting the accusee' too much. When I explain exactly why posts don't make sense, that is be discrediting the argument...

chickenfish is by far the most agressive in building a case against Quitex and his "you are missing something", "you logic is faulty" and assertion "you are scum" are all being repeated day two with myself.
Town was fooled by him day one please do not be fooled again.

Correct me if I'm wrong but YOU in fact believed and understood how illogical and scummy Quitex seemed day one and placed the final vote...

Wow after stating that Quitex and Claus were a scum team you have the balls to call it an in-game-example. This is blatant outright lying.

I actually explained this in the next bit you quoted...

When asked by Claus to give his opinion on sonic (or his reaction to Claus reasons for finding sonic scummy) which as earlier mention he was reluctant to do we have:

What relevance does my opinion have (obviously we should all be collaborating, but why MY specific opinion)? As for what you said about sonic - I can see where you are coming from, but I personally disagree with it. Especially the use of 'bloodthirsty'. Overexaggerating much?

Very reluctant in revealing anything of substance about sonickid01 and seems totaly freaked out and defensive about it all.

Misquoted, and I'm sure deliberately. I was actually asked what I thought of Claus thinking sonic was scummy, not what I thought about sonic...
Also you have completely misunderstood the potatoes argument - I was merely saying I was defending the validity of L-1ing, but not outright defending sonic.

A lot of words of little meaning apart from it is ok for chickenfish to play the team game but not anyone else.

Actually, a lot of words meaning "Don't put townies in teams, only scum"
You totally misinterpreted my stance on 'not asking questions'. As many of your 'dodging questions' accusations on me have gone to show, I directly answered the unneccesary questions as I thought they were asked, but that's not how they were intended and so you think I'm dodging them. If they weren't asked at all, the content of the post still warrants a reply, so I would have been able to fully reply.

If you have any questions about actions I've made earlier in the day that you think need justifying feel free to ask.

Wow now I get an invite to ask questions.

If you quoted the rest of my post, which I'm sure you were too scared to, everyone would see the 'You are blatantly taking what I've been saying out of context'.
The difference in time between my 'I think you're unhelpful roland' and 'I think roland has justified himself' was sufficient time for roland to explain his position, which he did...

Wow chickenfish seems very angry about moving away from a lynch which was most likely going to be Qx.

I infact was upset that you and roland continued useless bickering which was only slowing a lot of progress that had been made.

Once again, I don't know why I'm trying to convince you, you already know how cleverly you tried to misrepresent me. I just hope people can see through your fabrications.

Give this is no better than what you would have had anyways but from the start of the day I was not deemed too scummy at all.

As this has come down to which one of us is scum, it is only resonably that people take into consideration how each of us has played the whole game

I have said what I feel I have needed to say, I have outlined my case on him sufficently and can do little more than wait for town to make the right decision and help me lynch scum.

Town do yourselves some credit in this situation and vote the obvious scum.

My analysis on CF a mighty undertaking by your fellow townie done in hope of bringing the guilty to true mob justice.

Considering you think I'm the 'obvious choice', you're trying

pretty

hard to reaffirm your position to everyone.

[Chickenfish]

Haha wow did NOT see that coming.
sonic and Batt, why didn't you guys just hammer?
There I was thinking 'man, vampire is playing one ofht ebest scum games I've seen in a long time'...
Congrats guys!

[Chickenfish]

EBWOP (not that it's necessary any more): Just realised my shocking typo:
'one of the best scum games'