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Post #2573 (isolation #200) » Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:07 pm
Postby Sleepy Dragon »
In post 2565, KittyTacky wrote:
1. I don't see how it's blatantly impossible unless the solve is that way. Associatives can be faked. This really does smell like a play.
It's not about associatives.
Consider this world where Eira is town and I and Elements are scum:
On Tuesday there was a whole goddamn day where Eiralox was at E-1 and wasn't present to defend themselves, there was general town apathy and a sentiment of "oh well maybe we just lim Eira instead of waiting for them to come back", several people had expressed an intent to hammer Eira / consent that Eira will be hammered, and instead of letting Titus or Naerys hammer or just hammering a good mislim wagon on a softed TPR in a way that wouldn't even draw us any heat, me and Elements FOUGHT against the wagon and even started a counterwagon. Why the hell would we do it in a world where elements and dragon are scum and Eira is town??????
Like the WIFOM is not worth it, ESPECIALLY when Elements was and still is to some degree a viable counterwagon to Eira. We'd have to be literally throwing if we did that.
Sleepy alt of DragonEater70. Whatever "sleepy alt" means.
We aren't getting a new wagon. Just ensure being around in case the other gets to L minus 1. I'd rather have Elements but you swapping only kills Khaos with no certainty Elements goes through.
No? If I swap over to Elements that should put them at E-2
Whoch would be sheeping you.
Sleepy alt of DragonEater70. Whatever "sleepy alt" means.
In post 2542, Sleepy Dragon wrote:
why are you freaking so much about Khaos being pushed btw? Like worst case scenario he flips VT and we're out of the misery that is Day 1.
Because I want us to get actual information out of a flip. This is worse than a no lim as most likely a townie dies. Also wdym worst case scenario, Khaos COULD be pr. So this is MISREP.
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Post #2798 (isolation #235) » Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:08 am
Postby Sleepy Dragon »
Titus is the VCA expert but without checking I think both Eira and Elements flipping VT makes Bingle/Khaos/Drew look bad. Titus do you mind verifying that cause I hate VCA?
Sleepy alt of DragonEater70. Whatever "sleepy alt" means.
In post 2542, Sleepy Dragon wrote:
why are you freaking so much about Khaos being pushed btw? Like worst case scenario he flips VT and we're out of the misery that is Day 1.
Because I want us to get actual information out of a flip. This is worse than a no lim as most likely a townie dies. Also wdym worst case scenario, Khaos COULD be pr. So this is MISREP.
Khaos is the lim today. No other wagon is going to get momentum without scum help. Please vita la chaos.
NOBODY LISTEN TO THIS OFF KHAOS VOTE ELE
Uh how is that a town reaction when you just called me scum
I didn't call it a town reaction.
VOTE: Dragon
Naerys wtf
Are you kidding me?
The way I defended Eiralox and Elements doesn't ring a bell as the way I defended you in 244???
Explain the motivation behind Kitty getting nked. He already said what he was informed about. So going after him instead of Cele makes no sense. Unless scum felt threatened by something Kitty said.
I am not scum and I do not know their motivation. It is possible they guessed Kitty was babysitter. It is possible they wanted a low info kill on a relatively townread slot. It is possible they wanted to make me look bad. There are a lot of reasons.
I think saying "wow kitty was scum reading Dragon so dragon killed him" is extremely surface level analysis and ignores the fact that KITTY SAID I WASN'T SUS I HIS LAST POST ABOUT ME.
Sleepy alt of DragonEater70. Whatever "sleepy alt" means.
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Post #2804 (isolation #239) » Sat Nov 18, 2023 7:19 am
Postby Sleepy Dragon »
Also I never make such an incriminating nightkill as mafia, lol. You are welcome to read Fruit Mafia - my main D1 pushers were Shea (who was replaced and limmed so you can ignore), Datisi, Ausuka, and Atsi. I didn't kill them N1. I didn't kill them N2. In fact I brought Datisi and Ausuka to ELo!
But I just don't think it's fair to another player to base an entire push on them on the fact that someone SRing them died, when there's so many reasons to townread that person otherwise. Unless you thought I was super sus Day 1 regardless of being "Elements partner", in which case please elaborate on your case on me.
Sleepy alt of DragonEater70. Whatever "sleepy alt" means.
In post 2808, Naerys wrote:
I was thinking between Chell and Kitty. Picked Kitty.
Hm now that i think about it. scumBingle suggesting i focus on IC.And then killing Kitty so i could be framed as a scum. Looks like a possibility.
Also dragon feels genuine. Sorry about that, i just always feel excitable at the beginning of new day. UNVOTE: Dragon
Not sure how that works? Wouldn't scum!Bingle kill the IC to frame you, if anything? Like how would he know that you would target Kitty?
Also why didn't you target the IC?
Sleepy alt of DragonEater70. Whatever "sleepy alt" means.
In post 2808, Naerys wrote:
I was thinking between Chell and Kitty. Picked Kitty.
Hm now that i think about it. scumBingle suggesting i focus on IC.And then killing Kitty so i could be framed as a scum. Looks like a possibility.
Also dragon feels genuine. Sorry about that, i just always feel excitable at the beginning of new day. UNVOTE: Dragon
Not sure how that works? Wouldn't scum!Bingle kill the IC to frame you, if anything? Like how would he know that you would target Kitty?
Also why didn't you target the IC?
I targeted Kitty, who claimed to be informed. I wanted to be sure he is town.
Do you know that if he was informed scum you wouldn't have any way to differentiate?
Sleepy alt of DragonEater70. Whatever "sleepy alt" means.
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Post #2818 (isolation #245) » Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:21 am
Postby Sleepy Dragon »
Yeah IDK what she was thinking but that's not a good reason to scumread her
Do you actually think scum!Naerys would fake claim mailman?
Like I'm not saying the claim is clearing, I'm saying she's probably mailman regardless of alignment and she's probably not lying about targeting Kitty and I can't see a scum motivation for her to do so.
Sleepy alt of DragonEater70. Whatever "sleepy alt" means.
To explain: Sometimes when i played with my friends we were using term "citizen" instead of town
So i thought IC is informed citizen, not Innocent Child.
U srs?
Sleepy alt of DragonEater70. Whatever "sleepy alt" means.
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Post #2835 (isolation #250) » Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:12 am
Postby Sleepy Dragon »
Okay I am going to just give a not very thought out solve:
Gamma/Bingle/Drew
I like haven't analyzed this at all associations-wise, but it's where I am leaning after all the flips + agreeing with Chell's take on the NK + not liking Gamma this day phase so far.
I still 100% want to go Bingle today because I have no confidence about the other two.
If Drew is town then Khaos is just scum though.
Sleepy alt of DragonEater70. Whatever "sleepy alt" means.
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Post #2837 (isolation #251) » Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:34 am
Postby Sleepy Dragon »
Yeah that's what also made me TR her at EOD (I started having doubts on my TR before that but didn't really voice them). However the thought process for voting Naerys feels a bit contrived(?).
I mean I'm very much fine with not voting Gamma today and also with giving her more time to obvtown.
Sleepy alt of DragonEater70. Whatever "sleepy alt" means.
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Post #2845 (isolation #253) » Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:36 am
Postby Sleepy Dragon »
In post 2842, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I need to think things over for a bit because both Elements and Eiralox flipping town falls outside of my calculations.
Imagine being the only (still-living) player who thought they would both flip town
I feel like Cassandra.
Sleepy alt of DragonEater70. Whatever "sleepy alt" means.
There's two things here that bother me. First, Bingle has recently completed a game where Eiralox was town and was behaving in a very against-the-grain way and obstinate, and scum!Bingle pressured them for their against the grain play. I feel like town!Bingle would hesitate about SRing Eiralox and would realize that Eira being against the grain and obstinate is NAI at worst (and town indicative at best). Pressuring it feels like it's done in bad faith.
Second, the vote looked very scum motivated / opportunistic to me, in that Bingle first of all wrote a post where they explicitly said that most of what Eiralox had done this game so far was NAI and that Eira was lower null, and then only a few posts later in their ISO they CASUALLY put Eiralox at E-1, in a way that to me says "well I'm ready to end the day on Eira" (mind you, this was when Eira wasn't even here to defend themselves). To me this looks like scum who sees a mislim opportunity and tried to lock it in.
Tone:
Bingle has a towny tone, actually, but they always have a towny tone as scum in my experience so this is NAI. However there's something off about their tone in this post:
having a hard time reconciling that with my read of your slot
.
You think I’m scum for thinking Naerys is scum for objectively scummy things because you have meta. This is my first game with Naerys.
You think I’m scum for putting someone at e-1 with clear notification despite the fact that I’ve been openly accepting of the lim for at least 20 pages now.
You think I’m scum for being willing to lim a null read in my PoE despite also being the only person who has shown clear reasoning on the majority of the players since you’ve repped in.
And you’ve got a strong fixation with E-1 being a quick hammer despite there being very little threat of that happening fmpov.
The question here is: Why?
It feels like an attempt to discredit me without scumreading a widely townread slot (remember, Bingle was sure that I replaced KeyLaga). Like if I'm bad faith why you townreading me bro? If you think I'm tunneled town, say I'm tunneled town, not that I'm in bad faith. Though actually while writing this I'm starting to think I might be tunneled town. The thing is, I don't have any amazing scumreads elsewhere so for now I'm sticking with this unless someone drops an amazing scum case.
It just feels really off to me that after the Eira shenanigans, they see deadline is encroaching, and make an almost naked vote on Elements (who flipped town) with a promise to be around. And then instead of engaging with all the stuff that's been happening (such as the Snivy wagon and the mutual townreading that started to occur between everyone who was online), or giving reasoning for Elements, they just throw a general shade on everyone on their wagon and decide that somehow I have become a fine Day 2 lim (which is a hilariously bad idea), as well as really, really incorrect defense of themself.
Coasting:
I feel like Bingle has made zero effort to solve the game since my rep-in. They had made SOME solving before I repped in, but not afterwards. They were in a pretty strong position and townread, so it makes sense that scum!them would just decide to coast. I accused them of coasting and they made a response "refuting" it, which I'll dissect below.
I responded "that's a really bad reason to want to lim me day 2"
However, let me fully address it:
In post 2464, Bingle wrote:
But seriously, though, the fuck are you smoking?
shade/discredit.
I was the start of the Eiralox wagon.
Misrep. Bingle voted Eiralox early on with zero reasoning and no case, and then unvoted Eiralox and called them town. This is not "starting the Eiralox wagon".
I prevented KL from making the thread shit even earlier by interceding between him and elements.
That's something you'd do as scum.
I have had major pushes on Naerys and GE. I was the source of the hard townreads for KL and OWer. I, without a doubt, have done the most of anyone with regards to initiating plays...
Having done things EARLIER doesn't mean you aren't coasting RIGHT NOW, which Bingle IS. Read the game from page 70 and tell me they weren't coasting for 40 pages.
...and your push is the exact opposite of the stated reason of other people voting me: That I'm controlling the thread too much.
I'm probably down to lim SD D2, atp.
LOL
Scumreading someone for daring to think differently from the rest of the town is HILARIOUS. And by hilarious, I mean fucking bad play if town but probably coming from scum. Not once did I say that I am voting Bingle because of other people. Why does my push on Bingle have to conform with other people's perceptions of Bingle?
Sleepy alt of DragonEater70. Whatever "sleepy alt" means.
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Post #2860 (isolation #256) » Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:54 pm
Postby Sleepy Dragon »
OH WAIT that other game ended
Guysssss Gamma has a completed scum game now!!! We can use it for meta. Chell, do you get the same vibes from this game as from the other game? Because for me they feel subtly different but I'm not sure if I'm making up that difference or if it really exists.
Sleepy alt of DragonEater70. Whatever "sleepy alt" means.
In post 2863, Titus wrote:
Also, didn't Chell claim there was no protective role?
Did she?
In post 2863, Titus wrote:
Bingle is a good VCA flip like Khaos. I just prefer Khaos due to the lack of content.
That is fair.
I'm not changing my vote right now because we have 6 days before we have to hammer (I am NOT letting this go to deadline AGAIN), and I feel like putting pressure on Bingle for now.
Sleepy alt of DragonEater70. Whatever "sleepy alt" means.
