BooneyToonz XIII: To Boon or Not To Boon - [END]

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:20 pm

Spoiler:

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:23 pm

BEF lynch is basically aiming for goon equivalent which is like ~ok given his clear is basically the weakest but he pretty much can't be the rene

Bambi is ~relatively similar to BEF in terms of goon value

RCE is aiming for rene

Dave lynch activates party train but might be unnecessary to do today

then there's always nips and the possibility somehow there's a mech explanation for why he's scum but don't know we need to solve that today

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:29 pm

Strongest mech clear
Chemist1422 -- if Haggle's clear, should be strongest mech clear in the game
Haggle -- Scum flip requires dave to be scum
Creature -- if scum, must be scum with bambi
Amrun -- requires scum to have no killed n4
Emperor flippyNips -- requires us to have misunderstood n1 mech result

BEF -- requires same PT as Joan probably--basically not clear at this point
Weakest mech clear

No mech clear
50 Judge Powers -- seems obvtown anyway

davesaz - tbh don't know how to read dave but people seem to have liked his posts for town; mechanically seems like next best candidate for rene after RCE?
Bambi Jay - seen flashes of scum and town here so mixed feelings
BrightEyedFish - liked one or two posts but need to reread
RCEnigma - need to reread, best candidate for rene?

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:30 pm

In post 8446, Boonskiies wrote:I’m away for a bit, I’ll add flavor and vote count tonight.

Joan of Arc has been executed. She was a...

Spoiler:
Evil Magical Disguise Lords of the Boonski’iWelcome,
Joan of Arc
, you are
Kate
,
Desperate Doctor Neighbor
.

If I be waspish, best beware my sting.

ii;i Taming of the Shrew

Your group private thread is here.

Abilities:

• You are a
Doctor
. At night, you may target someone to protect from one night kill.
• You have the
Desperate
modifier, meaning your action will only work if you target someone who’s alignment comes off as an Evil Magical a Disguise Lord of the Boonski’i.
• You are part of a neighborhood here. You do not know of each other’s alignments, role, or flavor, but you may talk anytime.

Win condition:

You win when all of the Bard’s Battalion have died, or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Game thread is here. Confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

Night Ends

(expired on 2020-02-07 13:00:00)

Extended by about 16 hours due to availability.

scum doctor basically makes BEF not clear at all, RCE's n1 check is basically useless to us at this point

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:31 pm

Haggle, chemist is your clear yeah?

seriously if I actually need to be thinking about chemist I'd rather know that now than later, otherwise I'm just writing him off as a clear and thinking about the conditions under which creature is clear or not

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:33 pm

because if I play today like chemist is strongly mech cleared when he is not then I might fuck up
...

oh ok

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:36 pm

seriously though having one strong mech townblock can really help us a lot here

if it was chemist than that also makes creature way more likely to be town but since it's not I kinda gotta adjust

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:39 pm

Revised mech list

Spoiler:

so basically our only hard-hard clear right now is haggle imo

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:39 pm

it makes today like, a lot harder

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:40 pm

wait so who all was chemist in a hood with then?

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:52 pm

In post 180, RCEnigma wrote:Bef is town. This is a serious read.

In post 254, RCEnigma wrote:
In post 234, 50 Judge Powers wrote:and we all know Joan is untouchable on D1.
Best hottake btw.

In post 924, RCEnigma wrote:
In post 912, Doctor Drew wrote:
In post 903, Latias and Latios wrote:dd, who would you consider lynching/not lynching today?

-latias
Can't you a solid answer on who to lynch at this moment tbh.

I think I made it clear who I don't want to lynch though.

I will, and I promise, grill Joan/replacement for Joan in the hood though..... and probably here as well.

I will say, something that I can't put a finger on irks me about Nancy(totally not because of the hydra thing I swear).
If Joan flakes it's safe to put a bullet there.

In post 1390, RCEnigma wrote:VOTE: Joan

I think R&J looks pretty damn good on a scum!Joan flip for diving into the quote

In post 2317, RCEnigma wrote:PS I'm totally fine flipping Joan over any of these wagons.

kinda looks not same-pt as joan tbh

but for day 1 when scum weren't unified I don't know if I can tell from joan's role pm whether the two scum groups knew each other at start?

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:59 pm

In post 1548, BrightEyedFish wrote:20 pages to go. Consider this my live read-along scum hunting blog full of insider info and all you can use it to game solve. I’ll just make a reads list and update as I read along.

Order: From Scum to Town

Chara – I used to think CHara was a top game solver but this isn’t hitting right. I think it’s scum here. Trying to look busy.
Espressojet – I always have to re-read, even if the post is just a naked vote.
Joan of Arc –Don’t like the indifference to her lynch
Amrun – uhhh???
Romeo and Juliet – Kinda towny feelings in my heart but resistance to Joan votes is kinda scummy feelings in my heart.
Latias and Latios – I need to find a groove in this slot
Frank -
Davesaz – I want to SR this slot but will throw in with RCE in the undecided, probably scum pile.
RCEnigma – Still hard for me to stay objective on this slot
Emperor flippyNips – didn’t we speed lynch scum!flippynips on D1 before for lurking???
50 Judge Powers – I think this slot is going into overload, the most perfect Null- Slot ever.
LoserdudeOG – Who?
Karnage – See Above
AaronFrost
Titus – waiting on an obv towny post, yet to come across one. Like the naked Amrun vote though on 1159...
Doctor Drew – Some posts seem logical to me. I like that but I have the feeling scum!DD could deepwolf.
Venus and Mars – Too much to analyze but strong town vibes.
Haggle – Split. The BP posts have a scum feel but hectic feels more towned up and I like his record keeping.
Bambi Jay – Scum Bambi would never give me so much slack to be myself. That or killing me has beomce to boring/easy for Family Jay.
Chkflip – Been TRing this slot continuously.
BrightEREyedFish – The Town’s Townie

In post 1558, BrightEyedFish wrote:
In post 1361, Joan of Arc wrote:I was a cop in that game. Of course I didn't want to get lynched as a cop. Different roles, different approach.

In post 1554, Joan of Arc wrote:Conditional doctor.

WAIT WAIT WAIT a second...

You want to get lynched as a doctor?

In post 3984, BrightEyedFish wrote:
In post 3977, RCEnigma wrote:Sure, your day 2 reads would be good. Also what your take is on AF/Joan/drew/nips in general.
Day 2 has been too much setup/mech talk this early in the game. I just can’t keep up/not engaged with that line of info atm.
I will do a quick ISO (disregarding the claims) on those 4 players and see what I get:

AF: Town. I seem to be on page with most of their latest posts.

Joan: Saw Post 2376 and its basically what I just said. I gotta town this slot now.

DD: I like my vote here. Feels a little too easy but you know, sometimes the easiest solution is the right solution.

Nippy: The content isn’t very influential but I can’t really judge based on that because I have been slacking as well in actual content.

In post 6582, BrightEyedFish wrote:I ISO'd AF and this is what I concluded:

Spoiler:
In post 623, AaronFrost wrote:On page 10.

Titus tonally reads as frustrated town. I'm tempted to think that Titus vs V&M is tvt but I have no strong basis for that due to having no strong read on V&M.

Don't understand the RCE wagon. Thought it was weird to chk to go after the wording of the post rather than the content of the post which feels nitpicky.
This makes me TR VM and Titus even more. Makes me wonder about RCE.

In post 1095, AaronFrost wrote:
I think A50, Titus, RCE, V&M and L&L are all town. Having a little bit of a hard time getting actual scumreads right now but that might be because half the playerlist is lurking atm.
If RCE is scum he is not one listed in AF’s PM.

In post 2197, AaronFrost wrote: I'm gonna wager that if Drew!scum then Haggle and flip nips probably town.
This pings hard. AF spent alot of time on Haggle.

In post 2855, AaronFrost wrote:
In post 2787, davesaz wrote:AF seems significantly less solvey than what I'm used to.
I think I've only played with you once and I was scum so I'm not sure when you've seen me as solvy?
This looks good for dave

In post 2931, AaronFrost wrote:
Scumreads: Drew, Joan, maybe 50JP depending on whether he clarifies why actions against him failed
Joan and 50JP pinging me now.

In post 3287, AaronFrost wrote:
In post 3219, Chara wrote:
In post 3213, AaronFrost wrote:I planned on outing it once I realized drew was a scum neighborizer. Dont feed into the bs hes spewing at you
please don't misunderstand, i'm asking for clarification from you so we have as much info as possible from a source that isn't Drew, who i don't trust.

why did those two agree to keep you hidden, did they talk about anything in the hood, etc, is there anything specifically in there that made you realize.
Joan has said next to nothing in the hood. Drew was the one who wanted me to keep quiet about it and was trying to push the theory that Titus was the one who put me in there.

I think Titus is telling the truth about having nothing to do with our hood and Joan claimed doc hence it clicked that it must have been Drew.
Another link with Joan that is not good.

VOTE: Joan

In post 6720, BrightEyedFish wrote:
In post 6701, chkflip wrote:
Fish, that's fair; however, why Joan over Haggle?

Maybe because later in AFs ISO Joan stood out more. Haggle was more prominent in the early parts of the ISO. I wouldn't be surpised if both are AFs named partners.

HURT: Joan, Haggle, 50JP

doesn't look super like same-pt with joan either but not I'm not really finding town very easily in this iso either

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:05 pm

RCE can you refresh me on what was up with 180 and 254?

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:28 pm

dave read?

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:19 pm

Sell me on dave town?

Like should be an easy case, I kinda want to buy, I just don't really feel like I know what I'm looking for

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:21 pm

chemist want to hit us with a reads list?

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:36 pm

In post 8520, Haggle wrote:Shouldn't we be lynching Flippo?

-Hectic

handwave the 50J clear as some sort of technicality?

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:37 pm

I mean I don't like flip's play here either but uhh it doesn't by definition make him scum

I did mod the game that gave him the "moment of wonder" where he had no idea what his night actions had been, he definitely has an issue with projecting presence in games and I think it's fair to ask him to clarify his claim

did he ever say flavor or anything else?

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:46 pm

I don't know if comparing my play here to jazz is a compliment to my scumplay there or a burn on my play here

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:08 pm

In post 3738, davesaz wrote:So that was an interesting catchup.

Joan sounds like someone who was told to claim doc on Titus to explain Titus's result and cement its effects, but not coached on what to say when questioned on that.

In post 4923, davesaz wrote:This is mostly going from memory. It is explicitly not an alignment list, and not in order within the categories.

Actively trying to solve

50 Judge Powers
Haggle
Venus and Mars
Titus
chkflip
davesaz
Doctor Drew
Chara

Kinda trying

Chemist1442
Amrun
AaronFrost
Adorable
The Fonz

Barely trying

BrightEyedFish
Bambi Jay
RCEnigma

Avoiding any attempt to solve

Creature
Joan of Arc
Emperor flippyNips

Not a ton of neg assoc in dave iso

Feel like I'm having a hard time finding towntells

3738 isn't bad tho

But I guess at this point mathematically joan probably was hard bussed?

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:15 pm

In post 5120, davesaz wrote:I interpreted Bambi Jay's reaction to Clemency as panic. Not wanting to make an independent scumread is Bambi being cautious. Lamenting all the wagons being on town yet not wanting to push something new fits that too.

VOTE: Bambi Jay

In post 5143, davesaz wrote:I can't tell if Creature's list is a joke or if he's really that far out of touch.

In post 5776, davesaz wrote:Joan can't be scum. I'm calling this a hard clear. If she was scum then AF would have joined the scum pt, not the pt than Drew was in.

In post 5208, davesaz wrote:
In post 5203, RCEnigma wrote:
In post 5176, davesaz wrote:
In post 5170, 50 Judge Powers wrote:Oh, shit! So he did claim eventually! I was surprised (to the limit of being shocked, actually) the more comprehensive players didn't picj up on what he was hinting all along. I mean, he was confident enough you just had to think about it before you asked him WHY he was so confident.
TBH I still don't fully believe it. It's out of character for Boon to use a base role instead of one of his special ones. And I don't really buy going to bat for FlippyNips of all people.
Well what's your read on chk/A50 independently?
Weak / strong town respectively.

In post 5205, RCEnigma wrote:Also how do you reconcile chk being a scum!rolestopper targeting A50 to pseudo clear him knowing he himself wasn't a miller.
Targeting 50JP would not clear him in any case.
The hypothetical reason for a scum rolestopper to target 50JP would be causing chaos and keeping 50JP from being cleared by other people, which would be expected as IIRC 50JP was the only hard claimed role that could be targeted.
This is identical to the "unknown enhantress" theory except that enchantress would also soft clear 50JP's presumed target (Nips).

It's likely to be wrong in either case, but I'd like it to be resolved at some point.

In post 5797, davesaz wrote:Nah, maybe I shouldn't get angry here. Using the arbitrary color red (though that's not what AF flipped)

Red 1 <-> town
^
|
V
Red 2 <-> town

Red 3 <-> Red 4

Red 5

I guess that's possible, with an extra PT. He could have claimed doc enabler to try to keep Joan alive and get himself NK'd.

I still think the game design includes a town doc and we have only the one claimed though. It's a theory but it doesn't make sense.

Pedit: ok maybe I do want to do this
VOTE: 50 Judge Powers

Dave can you:
-update on bambi and creature reads
-explain that joan post
-explain 50j progression?

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:00 pm

nips can you confirm if you got vended last night

also maybe hit us with a reads list or an update on the extent that you are reading this game?

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:05 pm

What's your flavor again?

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:06 pm

In post 6117, Venus and Mars wrote:Someone sent me a message that I’m being taken to the cleaners?

did I have it marked down that Venus got a message too

was this from fonz?

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:22 pm

>Miller in a Shakespeare theme game
>Flavor of miller is NOT Falstaff

?????????????????

wat

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:24 pm

In post 8534, Bambi Jay wrote:Unrelated to me, but I got Viola from the Twelve Night thingy.

I feel like there's a lot of follower/voyeurs in shakespeare too so this seems weird too since viola isn't particularly the first that would come to mind

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:26 pm

can like anyone drop a reads list

I kinda want to just see where people are

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:30 pm

hmm, in starcraft 1 I did a loud vig because I thought it'd be funny for people to know who killed them when they died mechanically, but also so the scum BP would know who shot them, but MOSTLY because it'd be funny when they killed someone

I'm not sure when it comes to a boon game I'd go hard into that being AI or not, although in role madness I guess I'd be tempted to say it leans town given scum already are likely to be overwhelmed by the sheer volume of night actions and having scum know when they need to lie would be +scum

but it could also be a way for scum to confirm themselves to each other

I don't think "announcing tracker" is AI here tbh

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:20 pm

feel like boon prefers merry wives to henry iv

Weiss Schnee · Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:22 pm

Bef readslist?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:41 am

In post 8549, 50 Judge Powers wrote:Joan's role pm is exposed I am open to the idea Boon is confused about how his own roles work)

I don't get this?

I mean in this scenario desperate is just a modified loyal so it seems like he knew how it worked?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:41 am

In post 8551, Emperor flippyNips wrote:shit. i wish i was scum too with how hard she tried to kill me off of nothing

I mean she wanted to kill you because you don't seem to be playing the game, you seem to be playing a different game where you don't have to do anything

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:04 am

... Yeanyours only targets scum, and joan's only targets scum

How is there a mod error there?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:02 am

I mean right now I just want reads ignoring mech so I don't know why you can't provide that

Hit us with a reads list?

also why did you want to die early?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:06 am

Strictly speaking right now no one is 100% clear

Haggle is the closest to a clear we have just going off the sense there wouldn't be another scum doc/traitor

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:10 am

No. Mechanically speaking its relevant because they don't appear to have 'knivez' to a gunsmith, making them like a godfather vs gunsmith checks

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:11 am

so no diff from docs but diff from goons in an important way

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:25 am

Spoiler:

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:28 am

In post 8532, Weiss Schnee wrote:
In post 6117, Venus and Mars wrote:Someone sent me a message that I’m being taken to the cleaners?
did I have it marked down that Venus got a message too

was this from fonz?

wasn't this n2? I thought n2 was the night chemist got a message from fonz?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:37 am

Oh so you think with split that basically fucking anyone can be renegade?

That's actually a really good point

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:37 am

scum don't need multitasking, they need split

shit that makes like a lot of sense

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:40 am

fuck I wasted so much time trying to solve for renegade

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:44 am

yeah split means one of the two vendors is functionally guilty

if either action fails and they tried to vend to a rolestopped target (i.e. titus) then their other vend (renegade action) would also fail which explains why no renegade actions seem so inconsistent that night, and why it 'just so happens' both ended up happening to target a dead person with one of their vends

I kinda agree with A50, we should play around a split renegade/vendor and lynch inside amrun/bef

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:46 am

with that in mind bef seems a way better lynch because fonz died after chk died so her randomly missing vend seems a lot less suspicious at first glance

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:47 am

but creature tracked BEF and showed him only visiting one target...

HMMM

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:58 am

Spoiler: Am Joan p1

In post 3486, Amrun wrote:
In post 3484, Venus and Mars wrote:
In post 3482, Amrun wrote:I sincerely doubt the cop/doc role pms indicate an enabler.

Dave
, did your role pm indicate an enabler?
I just checked my role pm in Labrynth. I was loud JK in that game but when JK enabler got vigged, I defacto became a VT in that.
So yeah I doubt one here.

But one or both of Joan/Aaron could easily be scum. Probably not both.

In post 3562, Amrun wrote:
In post 3561, RCEnigma wrote:
In post 3549, Amrun wrote:Worst voting in the game
You might want to sit down for this but. We have the same votes.

Ahaha I know. And it is actually kind of funny. But I know what I’ve been doing and I know I’m not scum. I still think scum is likely to be there somewhere and yours seems likely now that we know some townflips we didn’t know before.

If Joan does turn out to be scum you are definitely not, though.

In post 3610, Amrun wrote:
In post 3596, Venus and Mars wrote:
In post 3594, Amrun wrote:
In post 3574, Venus and Mars wrote:
In post 3562, Amrun wrote:
In post 3561, RCEnigma wrote:
In post 3549, Amrun wrote:Worst voting in the game
You might want to sit down for this but. We have the same votes.

Ahaha I know. And it is actually kind of funny. But I know what I’ve been doing and I know I’m not scum. I still think scum is likely to be there somewhere and yours seems likely now that we know some townflips we didn’t know before.

If Joan does turn out to be scum you are definitely not, though.
How are Joan/RCE even connected?
Early day 1 and pushing the traitor angle. They just aren’t SvS.
Can you link/quote the specific posts? I remember Titus thinking RCE was traitor but I never understood why but I honestly think he’s town here by play. *shrug*
Basically, RCE pushed hard that Joan was crumbing traitor, and I just don’t see that being something one does to a scum buddy.

In post 3660, Amrun wrote:
In post 3655, BrightEyedFish wrote:I know there are a couple of other wagons are out there but I'm not really seeing anyone say don't lynch DD or have I overlooked something?
Yes, I TR Drew and don’t support the wagon.

Kind of fine to PL Joan at this point and she could still be scum. It’s really not ok just to do your night actions and prodge through the rest of the game and if we let people get away with this scum will start doing it (and maybe is doing it here).

VOTE: Joan

In post 3793, Amrun wrote:Titus, I don’t know why the claim of doc enabler makes Joan unlynchable. Or Aaron.

Honestly if I was scum that’s what I’d claim given that gamestate. Just sayin.

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:00 pm

Spoiler: Am Joan p2

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:01 pm

while "did joan tell amrun to play like mastina in story revisited" is always an idea I think it's more likely am is not same-pt as joan

man who the fuck was same-pt as joan lol, I don't know who can be left

someone must have done a pretty convincing bus

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:02 pm

In post 8578, Bambi Jay wrote:
In post 8575, Weiss Schnee wrote:but creature tracked BEF and showed him only visiting one target...

HMMM
Is this Also including the fact Scum either shot Titus or didn't shoot at all because Titus said she was visiting Amrun? We don't have anymore doctors or anything to stop kills, and unless the Scum Team is still seperated and they hit each other, they killed Titus or they didn't.

I mean Titus had to die no matter what, she could have changed her mind and done someone else during the night. I mean she wouldn't but she could have. And in any case soft-clears are just as bad as guilties this late in the game. So they killed her regardless of whether amrun is scum or not IMO

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:04 pm

I 'guess' if BEF was scum and has factional multitasking he'd 'probably' vend to someone else the same night he kills chara but given that does create the risk of 'tracker guilties' maybe he 'played around it' by 'vending' to the dead guy?

idk this doesn't clarify things for me as much as I wanted but it does break me out of the rut of "does it just 'have' to be RCE?"

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:06 pm

In post 1033, Boonskiies wrote:Desperate - Like Disloyal, but works against Millers and similar. Mod may also make it so where if they would target successfully like if they had a Loyal modifier, they die.

did boon actually perspective slip a50 town writing this out? woops

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:06 pm

wait no that doesn't make sense, it's just bad wording because joan has the same mod

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:17 pm

Spoiler: Det Pikachu Altslips

RCE, put mech aside for the moment. Do you like BEF's progression on Joan?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:18 pm

Like I feel like of the living candidates, his is the worst progression?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:24 pm

Okay but put playstyle aside

do a ctrl+f for joan in his iso and explain to me why he is doing what he is doing irt her slot when he is doing it

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:31 pm

Is it bad of me to say that you describing his conclusions looking solid makes me think he's scum here?

I know he's trying to improve his towngame but I've been avoiding him since LNT so that's still my last recollection of his towngame

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:31 pm

What's your thoughts on Creature?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:32 pm

But yeah I don't think he's a good candidate for Renegade, I think he's a good candidate for scum fruit vendor in same-pt with joan tho

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:34 pm

Like you mention the sound-reasoning in the wallpost on Joan, but then yesterday between 50J and Joan he chooses 50J

that's why I was asking on his progression

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:36 pm

Also, wholistic take on dave?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:38 pm

I was about to ask about Bambi too but I guess I should just ask for a full reads list again

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:44 pm

I believe Creature's result regardless of his alignment, ftr

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:54 pm

boon doesn't usually give out safe claims does he?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:58 pm

Bambi is also a good pick for scum investigative all things considered probably, but no chance of rene

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:59 pm

Amrun renegade that is opposite-PT as joan?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:00 pm

kinda warming on rce-town tbh

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:07 pm

why not? they're factionally multitasking, which means that any individual actions they do would resolve independently of the nightkill

I don't know exactly how split would work with the nightkill but I don't see why they couldn't off-hand?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:15 pm

so lynch BEF?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:18 pm

In post 0, Boonskiies wrote:Multitasking? Scum can make the factional kill alongside their ability, but they are not inherently Multitasking.

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:19 pm

Did Creature claim the Chara visit before or after BEF said that's who he targeted?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:20 pm

In post 6483, BrightEyedFish wrote:
In post 6415, Venus and Mars wrote:Sorry @Titus, who should I aim for? I think it would greatly help if everyone who hasn’t already claimed do so. @RCE, @BEF, Haggle, please claim, thanks.
I thought I did enough already but I'll lay it out:

Dirty Laundry Vendor with no modifiers.

N1: V&M
N2: Chara

chara action claim

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:22 pm

In post 6935, Creature wrote:BEF visited Chara

Creature mech claim

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:23 pm

wait it doesn't matter, BEF knew he was tracked because of announcing

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:27 pm

Actually I still think scum have a rolestopper so even if BEF isn't same-PT as Joan, that doesn't mean RCE's disloyal vig would have worked

Scum doc + scum rolestopper still looks like the setup

Scum doc + [something] + scum renegade + scum rolestopper + traitor = the setup?

there's a stupid number of invests because town has rolestopper and scum also has rolestopper?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:28 pm

unless bambi's scum in which case the failed result on titus was faked I guess

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:30 pm

bambi probably is scum though so maybe I shouldn't weigh that too heavily hmm

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:36 pm

BEF lynch:
-resolves stinky track to Chara

Amrun lynch:
-no actually good mech upsides to this that I can think of

Bambi lynch
-Confirms scum have a rolestopper (green flip), gives us a bit more on chemist + creature (green flip)

Dave lynch
-confirms haggle town (green flip)

Just listing benefits of green flips since the benefits of red flips (scum is lynched) is kinda self-evident

risk/reward is a bit of a factor here

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:39 pm

Amrun appeal is more in niche "is she da split renegade" argument

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:57 pm

Dave, best lynch inside {BEF, Amrun, Bambi}?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:00 pm

You can answer it before too idgaf

Hell hit us with a reads list if you got it bae <3

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:14 pm

VOTE: Amrun

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:37 pm

Few minor notes, Boon got back to me on some Qs

-Renegade does have a "knife/gun" to a GS
-If BEF vended AND killed Chara, Creature would have gotten "You tracked BEF to Chara and Chara" if I understood Boon's response correctly
-Boon provides fake flavor and will format role PMS if necessary but I didn't get the sense he provides safe claims

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:38 pm

In post 8643, 50 Judge Powers wrote:I am kinda undecided on RCE. I dunno what to make of this confusion, but I guess I'll town lean him now for mechanical reasons (or rather setup spec reasons). I mean, I thought he was scum before I reread that Boon post and deduce scum have a split modifier.

sell me on town Amrun? I feel strongly she isn't same-PT as Joan but feel like she kinda has the best renegade chances atm?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:45 pm

In post 8645, Weiss Schnee wrote:-If BEF vended AND killed Chara, Creature would have gotten "You tracked BEF to Chara and Chara" if I understood Boon's response correctly

Apparently I confused Boon and he actually clarified this to say that it would actually read as "You tracked BEF to Chara"

which means my edgecase theory that BEF would both vend and kill Chara isn't totally ruled out (although boon not even understanding what I was asking suggests it probably is not something he already thought of this game LOL)

not to mod spec but *adjusts tie*

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:46 pm

I kinda TR chemist for the manner in which he cc'd 50J? Why is he in the back of both of your poes?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:11 pm

I feel like I've fucked up one important read somewhere and it's making the whole game feel a lot harder than it has any right to

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:18 pm

In post 8652, Amrun wrote:ecause he is clearly a cop like role who got disabled.

true but scum cops also would get disabled wouldn't they? the weird role thing doesn't exclusively disable town-aligned cops iirc

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:19 pm

alright

UNVOTE:

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:26 pm

chemist green flip gives us town creature but then that just mean creature dies tonight if he's green

but creature probably dies tonight anyway if he's green?

what if we conceive of this game as a 1v1 between bambi and creature, who gets lynched first then?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:36 pm

do you have a fever, and the only prescription is bambi's blood for the blood god?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:41 pm

VOTE: Bambi

DEER FOR THE DEER GOD

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:44 pm

Bambi, you are not the renegade, but you could be scum invest

A) What is your full reads list
B) Who do you think is scum renegade
C) Do you think your role can co-exist with Creature's and have you both be town vs. multitasking scum?
D) Who is a better lynch than you?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:47 pm

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:09 pm

pretty good point, BEF+Amrun+Fonz are three very similar abilities

you think BEF is coincidence so Amrun is the better lynch

what's your refutation to 50J's towncase? Amrun was just tmiing you town?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:17 pm

Does anyone townread chemist?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:20 pm

In post 499, Latias and Latios wrote:
In post 493, 50 Judge Powers wrote:
In post 464, Latias and Latios wrote:50jp, is this a hardclaim?
Oh, I only said it, but I didn't claim it!

Yes. So Doctors need to find better targets to protect.
alright i cc hider and i think your claim is fake for multiple reasons

1. we have the weak modifier which seemed to be built into your role
2. we’re odd night and you claimed to be able to act tonight, but an even night would make more sense
3. you claimed to only due to lords and millers, but we die to anyone not bard-aligned, which does not include millers

VOTE: 50 judge powers

-latias

In post 8415, Chemist1422 wrote:
In post 8413, Weiss Schnee wrote:So your roleclaim changed from disloyal to loyal hider?
?

weak hider, then I received loyal night 1

like there's no substance on joan in his iso so that doesn't help much

the cc feels vaguely townie but ehhhh maybe 50j has a point

that being said I've heard it argued that town chemist is slightly lurkier?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:37 pm

why does scum BEF never attack?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:38 pm

In post 8672, 50 Judge Powers wrote:In fact, THAT is who I'm guessing is the Renegade, and he wanted to see if anyone had seen him do it.

BEF red flip as renegade confirms both Creature and Dave as scum though, so do you think it is a BEF-Creature-Dave scumteam?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:39 pm

which is actually also impossible unless bambi is lying

so BEF mechanically cannot be the renegade if I understand things right

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:40 pm

Wait no, it's possible with BEF-Creature-Bambi scumteam

still I REALLY don't think Creature makes that play

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:40 pm

don't get me wrong, BEF can be scum. if he's scum he's not renegade though, pretty much ever I think

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:43 pm

VOTE: BEF

don't think disloyal works though, if he's scum he's ~probably just a scum vendor?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:43 pm

if he has a modifier it'd be like, BP or something

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:47 pm

In post 8681, Emperor flippyNips wrote:
In post 8674, Weiss Schnee wrote:
In post 8672, 50 Judge Powers wrote:In fact, THAT is who I'm guessing is the Renegade, and he wanted to see if anyone had seen him do it.
BEF red flip as renegade confirms both Creature and Dave as scum though, so do you think it is a BEF-Creature-Dave scumteam?

how does that confirm them as scum?

Creature claims a track result on BEF that has him only going to Chara, so BEF Renegade flip would mean Dave lied about receiving modifier night 2 and also that Creature lied about track result

...which is why Creature probably didn't lie about his track result, one way or the other

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:47 pm

and also why, all things considered, BEF probably is not the renegade

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:58 pm

No I mean, Nancy had BEF as town. My problem there is I feel like Nancy had BEF as scum in LNT so I don't know what her read-rate is since then

Amrun's early lists look pretty good but also almost too good?
BEF's tone at times seems pretty town but his progression on Joan looks pretty bad?

I'd really prefer not to make the wrong pick out of the two but there's arguments to be made either way

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:38 pm

Gotcha, good to know

In post 8547, BrightEyedFish wrote:Town:
Chemist
Haggle
Amrun
Weiss
Dave

Probably Scum:
Bambi
RCE
Nips

Scum:
50JP
Creature

this still pretty much where you're at?

I guess you have Amrun above me, maybe sell me on 50J scum? I feel like I'm just really comfortable with my townread there and don't want too second-guess it but if there's something really significant there I've missed I'd like to hear it

otherwise I'd ask you to sell me on Amrun over you but it seems like that's not really what you want?

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:53 pm

In post 8696, davesaz wrote:You seem to be trying on every possible wagon, what's up with that?

trying to give people motivation to present strong arguments about why any of the assumptions or arguments I'm making are wrong

effectively the game has transitioned into a quasi-mountainous at this point, but people aren't really being super forth-coming in reads so I'm trying to avoid letting the gamestate become too dull while hopefully not going into pure thought-spam

that and I was really hoping chemist would be cleared by Haggle so I thought this dayphase was gonna be waaaaaaaaay easier and I don't have a super strong preference among any of the other candidates

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:10 pm

Like in terms of just dayphase today
I smelled a whiff of town dave earlier
I thought RCE either did a good job selling a perspective town-slip or actually townslipped
Bambi still has a TON of stuff in his iso I hate but also has more things that seem like actual analysis than I'm used to him from either alignment so he just feels off meta and it's hard to settle on a read

there's an edgecase where I'm wrong on creature+chemist but I think there's a good chance creature dies tonight so I feel like the "chemist+creature" question is better asked tomorrow

I feel pretty comfortable with 50J town and if flippy is scum I just don't know how that occurred from a mechanical POV which makes me a touch nervous to go there

but that means I really just don't have enough scum, I'm finding too much town and I'm wrong somewhere on a townie which is likely causing me to be wrong on two townies

Amrun and BEF are both complicated slots that each has a lot going for it and each has a few distinct problems which makes this not a very intuitive gamestate to play through but I also don't want to throw up my hands and say "well guess we do nothing then", like we have to push the game in a direction even if we're not sure it's the right one imo

if I'm wrong on BEF and he's town, Nancy will say I told you so. If I'm wrong on Amrun and she's town, Titus will say I told you so

It seems very likely some dead townies were wrong somewhere on one of those two slots given the rest of my townreads and the facts of the gamestate

doesn't make this current decision any more obvious or easier tho lol

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:18 pm

In post 8608, RCEnigma wrote:I think that kind of relies on scum not having safe claims though.

towniest thing you've said all game maybe

Weiss Schnee · Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:21 pm

UNVOTE:

crashing time for me, gonna come back at this late tomorrow probably

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:34 am

In post 8734, Bambi Jay wrote:Oh shit Creature was still on the Fish from earlier so he was actually at L-1 for a bit until Weiss unvoted. Amrun could've had a chance to hammer had Weiss not unvoted.

Good job Weiss.

VOTE: bambiB

There goes my bambi tr again

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:39 am

Yeah but it reads super fucking weird though like you're tmiing somehow

I don't even know what that says about bef I feel like you already know what he flips one way or the other

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:40 am

Same vibe I got from you when you were telling nancy to bomb chk tbh

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:48 am

Yeah but if BEF is scum then he would have been hammered

Why are you celebrating him not dying if you don't know his alignment?

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:01 am

If amrun is town and bef is scum then her hammering bef would be great

If amrun is scum and bef is town it still would have told us a lot

Like seriously when do you ever not like people getting hammered it just feels super off tone for you

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:17 am

Bambi scum means creature/chemist don't have to be aligned which probably blows this game wide open

Doesn't solve the renegade but it does probably explain why this game feels needlessly difficult

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:45 am

Green flip also confirms scumteam has a rolestopper which means bef looks worse

do you think creature and chemist are both scum?

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:52 am

Walk me though scum chemist?

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:25 am

In post 8743, Haggle wrote:Bambi+Creature+Surprise Chemist

Can someone explain to me the link between RCE and BEF? Who cleared/somethinged who?

-Hectic

Rce disloyal vigges bef n1 but the result is meaningless with a confirmed scum doc and a presumptive scum rolestopper

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:27 am

Yeah that's the thought, in a world where you're town

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:28 am

that's why actual results (gu smith inno) looks a lot better rn than failed disloyals

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:29 am

@amrun I don't get why bef green flip makes you less paranoid of creature

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:32 am

When you're under direct pressure you sound kinda townie but when you're just talking you sound suuuuper scummy

Idk what to do with that bambi

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:35 am

You know it's why I <3 u tho

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:37 am

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:54 am

Sell me on amrun some more before you start lolcatting

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:55 am

In post 1374, Amrun wrote:I did the thing, guys!!! I’m so proud!!

Now, here’s where I’m at:

50 Judge Powers - town. Of note, I have seen him fakeclaim a weird visitor thing as scum, but it wasn’t totally unprompted. Self resolving.
LoserdudeOG - totally null
Haggle - One of the active players I could see being scum. Nothing solid.
Joan of Arc - obvious. My only shade of doubt is the TR on Drew - that alone seems towny, but the reaction to the wagon is bad.
Chara - townish
Latias and Latios - town/self resolving
BrightEyedFish - town
Espressojet - null, maybe town lean
Bambi Jay - town, though his recent contributions do manage to sidestep significant game events
AaronFrost - completely null, scum lean, don’t remember anything’s he’s posted except the 20% fluff post thing which sucked
RCEnigma - townish
Venus and Mars - probably town
Emperor flippyNips - completely null
Frank - scumlean, totally devoid of content despite several posts
Doctor Drew - previously stated townish
Karnage - completely null
Romeo and Juliet - eh, maybe town lean?
Titus - town
chkflip - town
davesaz - scumlean, not much game content there, but not aligned with Haggle, and I do find Haggle scummier

Is this list almost really good or tmi?

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:56 am

Like it's weird that she's only wrong on like 3 reads so far?

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:04 am

But the fact it's from day 1 is exactly what makes that list really remarkable, one way or the other

I feel like most the time I think someone is tmiing with 'too good' reads they flip town tho

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:00 pm

chemist
you are in everyone's poe

who is a better lynch than you rn?

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:57 pm

You're a big boi, read the iso and u tell me

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:05 pm

good question

the way he pushed joan felt like it had a lot of conviction

some of his spec have been very chase-the-rabbity which reminds me of his towngame

and while he does fakeclaims, the level of confusion in his fakeclaim seems like it would be hard to fabricate

tonally he seems quite town and I would be pretty surprised if he flipped scum here

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:08 pm

well once, given the claimed rolestop the first time

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:54 pm

oh hey we have another odd night

bambi follow chemist again?

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:57 pm

In post 8788, Weiss Schnee wrote:well once, given the claimed rolestop the first time

and 0 times if titus was alienized rather than rolestopped

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:06 pm

In post 8791, Bambi Jay wrote:I mean, I could've tried to find scum making a kill but okay.

yeah, could go for scum, seems like maaaaybe renegade is out of shots so it's a question of high-rolling vs low-rolling, but in theory a fail on chemist is a guilty isn't it? so I feel like chemist results are ~as good as cop results assuming you are town and he is town (two significant ifs but~whatchagonnado)

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:23 pm

In post 8794, Bambi Jay wrote:How many people are claiming now to have been affected by the JD dying? How many of them are dead?

Well, none are dead, actually. That's why it's so complicated today

Creature was disabled (in part), I was disabled (totally), RCE claims something was disabled (limiting him only to a single roleblock left), dave was disabled (totally), and I think Haggle was disabled (totally)

I think that was one of several reasons Titus wanted to lynch RCE today, in addition to also claiming to have received an ascetic mod

in any case loyal hider trying to hide being followed to check for success is ~probably most efficient use of follower action?

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:59 pm

I mean, maybe, but one is a highroll gamble and the hider result almost guarantees to net value, doesn't really seem like much of a question to me personally

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:02 pm

Sure but doesn't creature die tonight like 70% of the time if he's town?

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:13 pm

But don't scum just not shoot you because you're in the poe?

I guess theoretically you should both be on chemist but that might be an unpopular position. Still, if one of the two of you die we can do a result claim sequence that might be useful

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:19 pm

VOTE: bef.

I feel like no matter what I end up flipping green

This feels like the best compromise and then we get one more result for tomorrow and go from there

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:39 pm

Yeah that post is fuckin weird right?

do u wanna lynch bambi today bef?

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:40 pm

Like every time I push him he ates and it feels townie but then he says shit like that and I'm like 0.o

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:41 pm

Otoh, we actually did lynch scum out of your 1v1 with profii in lnt so maybe not the best example

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:42 pm

Like you do remember profii flipping scum right

The problem that game was everyone forgetting me saying profiii scum meant nero scum

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:44 pm

anyway you're only kinda a mech lynch. Your track to chara looks bad but for me I also kinda don't like your joan progression

That's not like a great reason tho, but there are issues with your slot outside of setup and roleclaim

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:49 pm

No profii was also kinda a vendor. He was an inventor in a setup with two fruit vendors. Surprise surprise one of the three was scum

You're right that two similar.roles can both be town, but fonz is also flipped messenger which is also kinda similar

so that's more why it looks like 'too many' vendors kinda, it's not that there's two it's that there's 3 with one flipped town

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:51 pm

Like fruit vendor, sticky fruit vendor, inventor was the setup ya?

Anyway yeah that bambi post is too weird I can go back there

VOTE: bambi

You can tell I'm super decisive this game lol

Weiss Schnee · Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:53 pm

I kinda didn't like amrun's little comment about creature either tbh

If we lynch bambi that kinda fucks up chemist results but meh he already doesn't wanna be leashed and he wasn't on rce last night so w/e

Weiss Schnee · Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:17 am

Rce was the preferred lynch of titus because rce, chemist, and titus all claimed n1 renegade receptions which isnweird even if the renegade is split

I kinda didn't want to do him because his defense of bef and his thought process today has seemed a bit townie

Weiss Schnee · Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:19 am

But idk maybe I'm giving him too much slack, everyone seems a little townie today

Weiss Schnee · Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:48 am

Weiss Schnee · Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:52 am

Trust in the titus and toss the ascetic?

VOTE: rce

Weiss Schnee · Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:38 am

Dammit chemist, why aren't you participating?

:3

Weiss Schnee · Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:51 am

That's right!

Town is being led down a deep and dark path, and only you can save us flips. It's all up to you. Who is the scum?

:3

Weiss Schnee · Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:11 am

Titus and chk's concern was that rce, titus, and chemist all claim to have received modifiers on night 1, which even with a split renegade doesn't make sense mechanically, suggesting there may be merit in either a chemist or a rce lynch. Chemist is functionally an invest tonight and the only downside to mislynching rce is the mislynch itself. He's like the compromise of compromise votes for that reason, but it might be better to resolve that unless you'd like to lynchnchemist today instead and not pit faith in the loyal hide

Weiss Schnee · Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:12 am

Again, this is a variant so it's not a guaranteed mechanical crossclaim if boon decided to have a 1 shot triple visitor or some off the rails bullshit like that

Weiss Schnee · Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:29 pm

UNVOTE:

Weiss Schnee · Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:31 pm

You're a weak loyal hider...

Did you tell creature that in your pt day 1?

Weiss Schnee · Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:32 pm

Whichever mod you had at that point I mean

Weiss Schnee · Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:45 pm

Ok so the claimed weak hider got loyal and the flipped town got desperate

So if its weird variant somehow rce also got ascetic

And if it's split then rce got ascetic for basically no reason?

Weiss Schnee · Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:46 pm

Weird game, I'm gonna bring rce back to l2 tho

VOTE: rce

Weiss Schnee · Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:02 pm

R we making a terribad mistake and rce is obvtown?

Weiss Schnee · Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:47 pm

We can lynch Bambi tomorrow if he's still alive <3 <3 <3

Weiss Schnee · Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:59 pm

In post 8875, Emperor flippyNips wrote:
Spoiler:

how did anyone ever scumread this slot? town af

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:36 am

Yeah Bambi's like 80% scum it would just suck nuts if we hit the 20% and miss the extra follow result, I think bambi goes soon just not today

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:18 am

Well I kinda decided the reasons I thought he was townie today were actually reasons he was scummy

I liked the way he was protecting BEF at first but his weird insistence that BEF had to be scum with Joan ignored the other evidence of scum roles (i.e. scum rolestopper)

and although I kinda liked the "requires scum to have fakeclaims" point I kinda feel like it was almost NEI (not enough info) rather than TMI

that's right I'm coming up with new acronyms, things are getting serious now

+ Titus wanted him dead + weird that he received ascetic n1 + lack of reasons to townread + if he's scum ascetic creature and bambi get pointless results that tell us almost nothing?

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:59 pm

No it wasn't? It *could* be resolved with a red bambi flip, but the apparent rolestop was when bambi targeted Titus, not the A50/creature/titus trifecta

Are you NEIing?

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:00 pm

How do you reconcile Chemist and Titus both also receiving renegade action receipts n1?

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:09 pm

In post 8889, RCEnigma wrote:
In post 8886, Weiss Schnee wrote:No it wasn't? It *could* be resolved with a red bambi flip, but the apparent rolestop was when bambi targeted Titus, not the A50/creature/titus trifecta

Are you NEIing?
I'm talking about chk rolestopping a50 n1.

Are you making the assumption here that Bambi is a scum rolestopper that outed that information themselves?

No, Bambi, if scum, is scum investigative that faked a failed action on Titus

That's kinda elaborate even for Bambi tho

If Bambi is town, then Bambi's failed action can only be explained by a role-stopper, since Bambi himself was rolestopped by CHK that night

vis-a-vis, Bambi town = scum rolestopper exists, Bambi scum = *shrug*

What I dislike is you acting as though BEF can only be scum with Joan when that disallows the Bambi-town+scum-rolestopper scenario, which you're apparently not even considering?

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:10 pm

In post 8890, RCEnigma wrote:You're asking me to speculate on the kind of roles boon would come up with and enough words don't exist.

that's kinda fair but given his love for "split" as a modifier it's kinda weird that he'd to a one-shot triple vendor?

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:10 pm

I mean all mod spec is usually garbage but still, it bothers me

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:25 pm

In post 8894, RCEnigma wrote:A.) I don't think scum has rolestop plus another method of voiding invests on top of it and a cop enabler to further inhibit invests and essentially nerf the role.

2.) Idk what happened there and there are probably a ton of roles the interfere on some level. I don't think flipping probable town slots to reverse engineer scum interactions is the best use of lynches but that's just me.

A) why the fuck not? this is role madness with an overwhelming amount of town power. You think traitor and doc is enough? hell no. Boon loves day play he's not going to actively create a game that can be easily solved mechanically

b) Most roles that interfere on some level cannot have resolved because of chk's rolestop on bambi. Roleblocker doesn't work.

I don't remember what bunyip does but it was like a doc right

Jailkeeper-alien would also work but that's what I'm talking about already basically

nothing else works for explaining it. Look at the list of roles. Tell me something else that explains bambi getting no result on titus other than:
a) bambi lying (as scum hopefully)
b) rolestopper/jailkeeper-alien

nothing else comes to mind for me?

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:25 pm

In post 8895, RCEnigma wrote:The first iteration of split that I know of was sorcerors aboontice and I think Vorkuta had split with like 5 abilities that he could hypothetically use all in the same night. He just had to use at least 2 if that number was available.

okay this is actually really good to know, let me find it

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:27 pm

Subject: BooneyToonz XI: The Sorcerer’s ABoontice

Boonskiies wrote:

Vorkuta
has been killed! He was an
Arcanist!

Spoiler:
Town
Arcanist

▂▃▅▇█▓▒░ Welcome,
Vorkuta
, you are a
8-shot Split Neighborizer!
░▒▓█▇▅▃▂

▬▬ι═══════ﺤ At night, you may target players to be added into a Neighborhood with you. However, you are
Split
, so any time you use an action, you must use at least 2 separate actions. Creating 1 neighborhood between a set amount of people is 1 action. You may add to previously made neighborhoods. You may use as many shots as you want per night, but you must add people into at least 2 different Neighborhoods any time you choose to make an action. Specify what Neighborhood you would like to add your targets into. -═══════ι▬▬

•
Win Condition:
You win when all threats to the Arcanists are dead or there is nothing that can prevent it.

Confirm by replying with your Role and Alignment.

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:28 pm

VOTE: Bambi

alright that's a pretty good rebuttal, the triple on night 1 actually really doesn't mean jack shit

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:28 pm

although it still kinda doesn't guarantee you're town I guess? still means it's less of a quasi-mechanical cross

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:31 pm

Lynch bambi, Creature follows Chemist so we know if he gets a result or creature dies (more likely)?

the problem here, RCE, is that you're still like the best candidate for this 7-shot split Renegade (looks like what we're basically looking at?)

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:34 pm

Lynch bambi, red flip = yay, green flip = creature death gives us IC chemist

there are worse worlds than that

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:40 pm

In post 8904, RCEnigma wrote:Things like busdriver redirector etc. For example consider scum redirector moving chk to Titus instead.

don't roles that are not in OP required to be variants QED impossible given the existence of renegade?

has there ever been a redirector or bus driver in a boon game?

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:40 pm

In post 8904, RCEnigma wrote:I'm not saying that's what happened just that it isn't as clear cut as your trying to tell me it is.

my thought was that those possibilities were mechanically prohibited but if I'm mistaken let me know

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:43 pm

Spoiler:

bunyip probably not in this game, just posting this here for my reference on what that role is

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:51 pm

In post 8908, RCEnigma wrote:Ahh fair it's only previous roles besides variants. I'm not one for the setup side of things.

the original idea of the booneytoonz series was that it was "normal queue with a 'limited' amount of role madness style power"

so that most of the game is ~supposed~ to be comprehensible by normal rules with a ~splash~ of booney madness

so bus driver/lightning rod/etc. goes a little bit against the spirit of that but are *not* actually hard prohibited, they COULD be variants, but they are not in this game

that's my understanding anyway, boon is a madman so you never ~really~ know

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:07 pm

There are 4 days and 20 hours left in the dayphase

And you know what that means

Spoiler:

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:57 pm

I'd prioritize anyone who hasn't gotten a vend yet

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:52 pm

Chemist claims to have the loyal modifier
Bambi claims that on n3 his hide action succeeded
Chemist claims that on n3 he targeted Creature

This means that, for the hide to have resolved, Chemist must be the same alignment as Creature
Therefore
if Bambi flips town (i.e., lynching him today is a mistake and he doesn't flip red)
and Creature flips town (i.e., nightkilled because tracker)
then
Chemist then becomes functionally Innocent Child

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:53 pm

wait, fuck, that doesn't actually preclude chemist from lying

you're right he wouldn't actually be ic'd even then, it would only be if chemist went first that creature would be ic'd, it doesn't go in reverse

fucking convoluted night action shit

Weiss Schnee · Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:26 pm

Dave really strong pref between bambi and amrun?

Weiss Schnee · Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:39 am

So you think bambi lied?

Weiss Schnee · Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:46 am

In post 8921, Weiss Schnee wrote:So you think bambi lied?

Weiss Schnee · Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:28 am

Dave you are literally the last person scum want to kill right now LOL

I still have doubts on Bambi, both mechanically and the read, but he's the only player that has actively pinged me both today and yesterday at all even if there were flashes of townie-style AtE.

Amrun is probably the better lynch mechanically speaking (since bambi town flip, as unlikely as it is, is bad for town) but there are so many 'problematic' slots mechanically that feels like a really weak argument and I really come and go on my read of her, not due to scumread but more due to absence of townread

in any case I kinda feel like town and scum are both kinda just pooped with this day and I feel like giving Haggle what he wants on Bambi isn't a bad idea given he's the best mech clear

that's where I'm at anyway

Weiss Schnee · Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:10 am

I mean you're being wagoned because you just seem the scummiest, what's weird about that?

We were kinda passing on you earlier because we didn't want to be wrong on you and miss a check on chemist

Mech speaking, it'd be maybe better to do Amrun today, then do you tomorrow after you have a result on chemist, so that if you were town at least we'd get an inno or guilty out of his loyal visit

in theory I would even say to leash chemist to dave, have both you and creature follow/track chemist, so we could get the party train going even longer

but really you just seem scummy and I don't think your results will mean anything after you flip red

do you wanna sell us on Amrun today?

Weiss Schnee · Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:48 am

what shenanigans do youmean other than the track?

Weiss Schnee · Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:04 am

UNVOTE:

What do you mean by weird af? what posts or reads don't you like?

Weiss Schnee · Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:41 pm

Not amrun 50jp?

Most of the time my preflips are wrong but I kinda thing am/bam is 2/2

Weiss Schnee · Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:51 pm

In post 8852, Amrun wrote:I just ISOed RCE again and honestly, the Joan interactions aren’t as exclusive as I thought they were day 1 and in hindsight I can see them being from buddy and it’s really hard to build a scum team without RCE in it.

VOTE: RCE

This feels better to me than Creature atm.

You still want rce am?

Weiss Schnee · Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:08 pm

VOTE: Bambi I think I'm okay with this going back to l1

Weiss Schnee · Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:30 pm

VOTE: rce.

Fuck your iso bambi for making me feel like an indecisive shit lol

Really though I need to reread some of your games, I'm just gonna sit on rce while I think about you tomorrow night

Weiss Schnee · Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:34 pm

UNVOTE:

Actually not even that