The Werewolves of Millers Hollow (Game Over)

[Juls]

Also, FoS: Percy Seems a little too early to scum hunt issin't it?

No. I don't think it is ever too early.

I will only cast my vote (worth 2 as mayor) only when there is at least 1/4 of town (excluding myself) urging me to vote.

Removing yourself from all accountability for your actions? Whoever is elected mayor should do what they think is best. Further, it is likely at this point in the game that almost 1/4 of the people are indeed scum. So based on your proposal scum could drive the mayor.

[The Fonz]

I'm unlynchable.

Flavour, please.

Don't get me wrong, putting any role information in the public domain that doesn't need to be is antitown and therefore scummy. And I'd normally wagon for that.

However, I'm willing to bet that if he's telling the truth about the power, there's some kind of town killing power somewhere. Otherwise, you'd have a player that the town never has the opportunity to eliminate. Even worse if he's actually scum (which is the scenario where town would really want him dead).

In that case, what we really don't want to do is go for a kneejerk wagon, and waste the town's lynch for the day.

The only problem i see with this is if he's actually a CR. Since that's a role that commonly gets 1-shot lynch immunity.

Lynch Unvote: zwet

Vote: Xtoxm

Up to five, if I've counted right (which is by no means a sure thing.) Well within a safe distance from lynch, anyway. It was an odd post, although we don't really know what he meant by that and it could just have been joking around. Has anyone played with Xtoxm before, and would have reason to push him into a claim based on his post in conjuction with that meta? Is that kind of play something anyone's seen before in Xtoxm?

This feels odd. To vote a guy, then hedge that much in explaining it.

@Xtoxm- unlynchable period, or you survive one lynch attempt. Does "lynching" you end the day or are we just forced to choose someone else?

@BM- from what I know of you, you're a rather prolific poster and not prone to lurking as well as being a good player. These are all reasons I voted you to be mayor. I know you won't flake out and disappear (thus keeping that important double vote out of the town's hands). I also know that giving you the double vote will force you to play well as town and if you're scum, the high profile will make it harder for you to get away with anything.

unvote, Vote: ShadowKnight for Mayor

No. I mean, I want to use my vote wisely. There's a difference.[/quote]

Translation: I want to leave as little of a paper trail as possible.

Vote Xtoxm for mayor

When you fail at lynching me i'll be confirmed town, so i'm the best choice.

Fail. You also said lynching you was a bad idea.

@Xtoxm,

could you please explain what you were thinking that lead you to decide to claim under no pressure on day one?

@BM: A feeling I get from my X as SK meta.

@Shadow: I certainly hope there aren't jesters but now that you mention it I bet there is a Vampire in this game. It fits the theme perfectly. I'm not familiar with the strategy so I don't know if they'd make themselves a target for a lynch or NK so early.

No, why did you vote him for Mayor? 0.o'

An unnk SK has serious incentive to scumhunt.

@Xtomx: I think claiming 'unlynchable' makes you the perfect scum target. If you're pro-town and also the mayor, what makes you think you'll survive tonight?

Percy, please explain why that would be a bad thing.

It's unfamiliarity with a game mechanic more than anything else. You may have noticed I made a random lynch vote in this game already. With my earliest experience of playing Mafia, I didn't do any random voting until I was confident enough to do it, but that wasn't on this site and I don't believe there are transcripts of those games anywhere.

Looks like an excuse to avoid contributing to me.

Mayor Vote: Mufasa

Because Mufasa was cool

Lynch Vote: The Fonz

Because he was not

Note that I havent played mafia on this particular site in ages, so I know noone.

Question, Barry. Have you read what's already been written? If so, why did you feel it protown to random vote rather than actually contribute? If not, why not? Same question to Mufasa re the selfvote.

The Fonz - Female, 11 years old... Hmmm... Reminds me of Lilith, in Supernatural.

Please do not make any kind of speculation about what kind of character another player might be.

Any roads, I agree with Percy in the Mayor issue. Being a Mayor carries a great responsability, which I don't know if I can fulfil, hence why I don't want it. Though I'm getting better with every game I play, I still get a bit emotional with very good players that are even scum. Also, do we have to have a Mayor? Just wondering if there's a deadline for that, or if it's mandatory to have one.

Shadow Knight is also right regarding the X issue and his supposedly unlynchable ability. But, one way or another, I don't think it was wise to claim so soon, hence why I'm distrusting of him right now.

I AGLEE!

I believe Xtoxm has been lynched D1 in another game I saw as well.. for erractic posting. Can't rmb which game though.

Lynch Vote: Zwet

, for being a 1 year old kid... how can a kid be sensible in his votes?

DO NOT RANDOM VOTE AT THIS STAGE!

Also,

FoS: Percy

Seems a little too early to scum hunt issin't it? Anyway, I didn't realise the game started, I was still refering to the queue thread...

WTF? It's never to early to scumhunt.

Also, the Ztife plan sucks. Don't vote for him. I can't really be arsed to go over, point by point, why it sucks, but it does.

[Shadow Knight]

unvote, vote ztife to lynch

Too early to scum hunt?

And my scumdar blew up when I read your proposal for mayor. Let me run it through the scumtalk/craplogic decoder.

"I promise that if I'm mayor, I will only use the double vote when the lynch is inevitable anyway, thus avoiding all blame for a mislynch."

Hmmm. No thanks. I'd rather had the double vote to someone who will use it to lynch whomever they think is scum. The only restriction on their vote should be the knowledge that if they are doubly responsible for mislynches and will thus be under double scrutiny for them.

[The Fonz]

I don't think Ztife looks like scum, bad as that plan is. I'm reading noobtown.

Shinnen, Izzy, Mike, perhaps Barry. These are all worthwhile wagons.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

No. I mean, I want to use my vote wisely. There's a difference.

Translation: I want to leave as little of a paper trail as possible.

No. It means exactly what I said. Judicious use of the vote isn't necessarily a bad thing anyway. There's far less obfuscation involved than jumping from place to place.

It's unfamiliarity with a game mechanic more than anything else. You may have noticed I made a random lynch vote in this game already. With my earliest experience of playing Mafia, I didn't do any random voting until I was confident enough to do it, but that wasn't on this site and I don't believe there are transcripts of those games anywhere.

Looks like an excuse to avoid contributing to me.

Looks like you need to get your eyes tested, then. Conservative play to avoid making mistake s with unfamiliar game mechanics does not equal unwilligness to contribute.

[Dr Pepper]

Holy 24 hour multi page explosion Batman.

Lynch Vote Xtoxm

Something about Xtoxm's claim feels very troublesome to me. Its like he threw a giant pile of gambit out there and early in day one to boot. Even if we test his claim, it does not prove his alignment. Id would be more than happy calling his bluff.

I do not like the idea of Battlemage for major right now. He is trying to hard for my tastes. Id rather not see him end of as major today.

Major Vote Percy

He made some good points about what the responsibilities of major are and I think he has a good idea about how to carry out the role. I also believe should he die, he will make a logical choice for a townie successor.

I also share some of The Fonz's concerns about DizzyIzzyB13. You dont need to wait to random vote. Thats why its random. Its not a lynch worthy point, but DI looks bad in my eyes right now.

[Barrylocke]

Mayor Vote: Mufasa

Because Mufasa was cool

Lynch Vote: The Fonz

Because he was not

Note that I havent played mafia on this particular site in ages, so I know noone.

Question, Barry. Have you read what's already been written? If so, why did you feel it protown to random vote rather than actually contribute? If not, why not?

No, I didn't when I made vote, I made the assumption that we were still in a lack of discussion stage of the game. I'm read up now.

Unvote: Mufasa

Unvote: The Fonz

I agree that Ztife's mayor idea doesnt seem to be sound. I've never played a mayor game before, but I'd think that a good mayor would use their extra vote to put a bit more pressure on who they are suspicious of.

With the way Ztifie has it, it seems somewhat blame-free. And as someone pointed out earlier, the mafia can use that extra vote to their advantage in mislynches.

[Barrylocke]

Concerning Xtoxm, I dont think claiming that power this early makes him a good mayor. If his power was something like not being able to be night-killed, that'd be another story.

By being unlynchable, assuming that he is, all it does is insure his own security as mayor, but it wont make the rest of the town be sure about it.

[The Fonz]

Barry, as you no longer think we're in the no content stage, care to provide a vote?

@ Izzy: 'Being cautious' and 'not wanting to make a mistake' are excuses the scum hides behind to avoid contributing, frequently. But then, i'm a player who equates 'cautious' and 'scummy.' Town should be aggressive.

[Shadow Knight]

@The Fonz- but being overagressive gives scum too many opportunities to capitalize on town mistakes. I've seen many overagressive townies get lynched after they lead a mislynch. Also, some of the best analysts that I've seen play, lurk through the first few days making posts sporadically to stay under the scum's radar to avoid nightkill. Then in the endgame, they bust out a PBPA that wins the game for them. Pooky and Puzzle were both good for this. With that said, don't think I'm advocating everyone do this, but more just saying that not all caution is scummy.

[The Fonz]

That's a truly horrible, and town-harming, way of playing. If you're a good scumhunter, that means you have a responsibility to contribute more, not lurk through the first few days. Nuke all lurkers.

If you've seen too many aggressive townies lynched, that means you've seen too many stupid towns who equate aggression with scum motive, when it's precisely the opposite.

[dingoatemybaby]

I think The Fonz is mostly correct on the issue of aggressiveness. However, I believe that being too aggressive can actually stifle other lines of thinking. It may not be good town play, but the truth is that many people do not want to question the logic of a highly aggressive player for fear of coming under attack (or what they might perceive as an attack). As such, a dominant, aggressive player can lead the town down a wrongly chosen path even when other townies secretly see problems with it.

[The Fonz]

Players being wrong always hurts the town whether they're active or passive, Dingo. But if an aggressive townie is leading the way, in any case it's better than the scum leading the way. And other viewpoints are only stifled if people with other views refuse to be similarly aggressive.

[dingoatemybaby]

I'm sure that is all true, Fonz. But people also want to protect themselves, as they know they are on their side, and that includes not wanting to be overly scrutinized. That can lead people to hold off on disagreeing with a very aggressive player.

But maybe I'm getting too far off into theory. I don't think this is a level of aggressions we have seen in this game.

@Xtomx - Why haven't you addressed questions regarding your early and unforced claim? What was your motivation? What did you hope to accomplish?

[Yosarian2]

I don't buy X's claim. I've heard of Unlynchable as both a town and scum role anyway.

Seriously? Scum with lynch immunity seems like such a bad idea...I mean, Flay tried it in that Lost Boys game, kind of, in a very limited sense, but even there I think it was a really bad idea.

I'd be in favor of testing X's claim today. Frankly, my biggest concern would be that we lynch him and find out he was just a vanillia townie claiming a role he dosn't actually have.

[The Fonz]

Does not compute, Yos.

If he's not unlynchable, there's no pressing need to lynch him now.

If he is, it's a complete waste.

[Shadow Knight]

I think that if a lynch candidate makes himself irresistably scummy, we should lynch them, but if we come up on a deadline, then we use it to test xtoxm's claim based on the "some knowledge is better than random" school of thought.

[Yosarian2]

Does not compute, Yos.

If he's not unlynchable, there's no pressing need to lynch him now.

If he is, it's a complete waste.

If he's not unlynchable, then lynching him probably nails us a scum; like I said, his meta makes me worry that there's a chance that he's lying town, but if he's lying about his role I still think we have to assume that would make him more likely scum then town. Lynching a liar is usually a good thing.

And if he is unlynchable, then lynching him today confirms his role, which gives us useful information. Plus, lynching him today means we spend our day 1 lynch to test his claim, rather then, say, our day 4 lynch; as the town is much more likely to hit scum day 4 then day 1, I'd much rather test his claim today, if we're ever going to test his claim.

[The Fonz]

So let's say we've got a couple of middling wagons, a couple of people making cases... everyone's supposed to drop their cases and just vote Xtoxm?

[Battle Mage]

Holy 24 hour multi page explosion Batman.

Lynch Vote Xtoxm

Something about Xtoxm's claim feels very troublesome to me. Its like he threw a giant pile of gambit out there and early in day one to boot. Even if we test his claim, it does not prove his alignment. Id would be more than happy calling his bluff.

I do not like the idea of Battlemage for major right now. He is trying to hard for my tastes. Id rather not see him end of as major today.

That's a relief, because that military position isnt vacant. xD

Im not sure what you mean by trying too hard. I always participate at this frequency in early games, regardless of the prospect of immediately gaining something. If anyone was trying too hard, i'd say it was Percy, in that his aspirations for a mayor seem very vague and woolly to me. More a propaganda exercise than something realistic and practical.

BM

[Yosarian2]

So let's say we've got a couple of middling wagons, a couple of people making cases... everyone's supposed to drop their cases and just vote Xtoxm?

(shrug) If there's a good case on someone, if I'm pretty convinced that they're scum, I'd be in favor of lynching them instead; I'm always pragmatic about such things.

For the most part, though, I think lynching Xtoxm today has a much better risk/reward payoff then most day 1 lynches do.

[Battle Mage]

So let's say we've got a couple of middling wagons, a couple of people making cases... everyone's supposed to drop their cases and just vote Xtoxm?

(shrug) If there's a good case on someone, if I'm pretty convinced that they're scum, I'd be in favor of lynching them instead; I'm always pragmatic about such things.

For the most part, though, I think lynching Xtoxm today has a much better risk/reward payoff then most day 1 lynches do.

I concur.

BM

[The Fonz]

Does not compute, Yos.

If he's not unlynchable, there's no pressing need to lynch him now.

If he is, it's a complete waste.

If he's not unlynchable, then lynching him probably nails us a scum; like I said, his meta makes me worry that there's a chance that he's lying town, but if he's lying about his role I still think we have to assume that would make him more likely scum then town. Lynching a liar is usually a good thing.

Always a good thing. But I've no particular reason to believe he's lying; and if he isn't, it's a wasted lynch. Sure, confirming the role is useful; someone's alignment is more so. I'd rather wait and see if he is taken out at night.

[Battle Mage]

No. I mean, I want to use my vote wisely. There's a difference.

Translation: I want to leave as little of a paper trail as possible.

No. It means exactly what I said. Judicious use of the vote isn't necessarily a bad thing anyway. There's far less obfuscation involved than jumping from place to place.

It's unfamiliarity with a game mechanic more than anything else. You may have noticed I made a random lynch vote in this game already. With my earliest experience of playing Mafia, I didn't do any random voting until I was confident enough to do it, but that wasn't on this site and I don't believe there are transcripts of those games anywhere.

Looks like an excuse to avoid contributing to me.

Looks like you need to get your eyes tested, then. Conservative play to avoid making mistake s with unfamiliar game mechanics does not equal unwilligness to contribute.

I agree with Fonz here. Whilst it doesnt necessarily mean you arent going to contribute, your cautious attitude definitely stinks of not wanting to be held accountable for your votes, and to remain inconspicuous.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Does not compute, Yos.

If he's not unlynchable, there's no pressing need to lynch him now.

If he is, it's a complete waste.

If he's not unlynchable, then lynching him probably nails us a scum; like I said, his meta makes me worry that there's a chance that he's lying town, but if he's lying about his role I still think we have to assume that would make him more likely scum then town. Lynching a liar is usually a good thing.

Always a good thing. But I've no particular reason to believe he's lying; and if he isn't, it's a wasted lynch. Sure, confirming the role is useful; someone's alignment is more so. I'd rather wait and see if he is taken out at night.

Reason he could be lying: He could be scum, who didnt want to be run up...

BM