Pledge of Allegiance (Game Over! Page 76)

[Ellibereth]

In case previous formatting was screwy.

##Vote: Jack

[Fishythefish]

However, you are still basing your argument on a) your "tell" about scum making pointless posts and b) disagreeing with my read of Nico's posts. Neither jive with proper tell theory.

What do you mean by this last sentence?

Both those tells can be summarised well for me by "I just can't see myself posting that". OK, the first one was very early game, and I suppose you'd expect more pointless posts from all quarters. But here is your Nico vote's basis:

So, which alignment do you guys personally prefer and why did you choose town?

I felt I had no chance of playing scum successfully against this player list.

##Vote: Jack

Really? You saw the player list before picking alignment?

It was included in the Pick Your Side pm I received.

And from this, you get that Nico was trying not to look defensive? I just don't see where this is coming from. I just don't see how what Nico said wasn't a full and natural (if factually incorrect) defense.

Some good arguments about Para floating around. Bringing up his own meta and then arguing against meta arguments shows some inconsistency - does he think that these are worthwhile arguments, or not? His point about Oj's first post makes no sense, but not in a particularly scummy way. I certainly thought Para's saying VP was using meta excessively was being used as a scumtell, even though that wasn't explicitly stated, and his denial of this seems rather odd. The posts of VP's he saw nothing good in were filled with meta. Feels here like Parama is hiding behind the literal meaning of his post.

##vote: Parama

[Parama]

I didn't bring up my own meta.
I didn't explicitly state that I thought VP was scum because of use of meta - my reasons sat next to my vote.
I didn't see anything good in any of VP's posts.
I think I've caught scum already and now VP's buddies want to push a lynch on me because of it.
Just my opinion.

[VP Baltar]

1. Exaggeration is fun
2. I never said the use of meta arguments made you scum:

Most of your post talked about meta and then you voted me. Sorry if you can't see the flow of ideas in what you write.

As far as your "case", where is my logic "shallow"? Terrible gut feel isn't a very believable wagon.

##Unvote
## Vote: Parama

[Parama]

Yeah I'm just not going to bother at this point since I am apparently the most unconvincing person ever.

[VP Baltar]

Giving up at L-8 is a scumtell for everyone playing along at home.

[Parama]

Paraphrasing VP Baltar
By Parama

Parama sure spends a lot of time talking while saying nothing.

"Don't mind the fact that the post following this opening doesn't really say anything either."

Just based on meta, I'd say that UncertainKitten couldn't resist taking scum or other. I'd also lynch Zorblag without question today.

## Vote: UncertainKitten

"Just tellin' you guys that I don't feel like actually scumhunting, so I'm going to go for people who may or may not have picked scum based solely on meta."

So, which alignment do you guys personally prefer and why did you choose town?

I felt I had no chance of playing scum successfully against this player list.

##Vote: Jack

Really? You saw the player list before picking alignment?

"Yeah I wasn't even paying attention to the PM when I picked mine because I had already decided that scum was the only option for me."

Well, all I know is that I've seen you as disinterested town more than once, particularly when you get vanilla. Therefore, I think you'd be inclined to take scum since you would see it as more "fun". You don't happen to have some of these SEVERAL TIMES do you?

@DDD - I think Troll has proven very successful as a scum player in the past and wouldn't mind the challenge. Why do you think he'd take town?

"Ignore the fact that scumhunting is the best option for catching scum, I feel like using meta arguments and not relying on the content of this thread at all since I don't really need to scumhunt anyways."

Feel free to list the hundred meta arguments I've used. Also, give a detailed explanation of how any of those make me more likely to be scum.

"Yeah let's take an obvious exaggeration literally so it can be used as point against the guy who's caught me. Also, if it isn't a problem would you mind telling me the motive behind my own arguments? I wasn't sure if it was obvious enough, would like confirmation."

1. Exaggeration is fun
2. I never said the use of meta arguments made you scum:

Most of your post talked about meta and then you voted me. Sorry if you can't see the flow of ideas in what you write.

As far as your "case", where is my logic "shallow"? Terrible gut feel isn't a very believable wagon.

##Unvote
## Vote: Parama

"Don't mind me, reading between the lines here. Oh, there's a wagon forming on Parama, now seems like a great time to OMGUS him without looking suspicious for doing so. I can get away with it by acting like I have a reason and then not providing one because my buddies will back me up."

[Parama]

Giving up at L-8 is a scumtell for everyone playing along at home.

Not even trying is a better one.

[Parama]

Also, inb4 misrep accusations

[Fishythefish]

I didn't bring up my own meta.
I didn't explicitly state that I thought VP was scum because of use of meta - my reasons sat next to my vote.
I didn't see anything good in any of VP's posts.

You did bring up your own meta. You said "Anyone who understands how I play knows my alignment. ". Later you said this was more about your personality than meta. What is the functional difference, in a game of mafia, between your meta and your personality?
I know you didn't explicity state you found VP's use of meta a scumtell. I think it was heavily implied, and was surprised when you denied it as a reason, particularly now, when you are clearly saying it was scummy in your "paraphrasing" post. The fact that you didn't see anything good in VP's posts

must

have had a lot to do with disliking his meta arguments.

[Parama]

Meta is the playing style - how I scumhunt.
Personality is how my posts sound when spoken aloud.

The way the meta arguments are used is more of a scumtell than just the plain fact of using meta - not the fact that he used it, but how he used it.
He used it to make BS accusations with no logical backing because he doesn't actually have to scumhunt, being scum himself.
Notice how in the post where he votes me he never accuses me of anything scummy.

[Ellibereth]

DGB from one the QT of ours ->

I have to agree... another SlySly... watch out if he seems townie!

^^^About reading Para.

I think he's town.

[Parama]

Fishy I love the way you completely ignored the case I put up on VP

[Parama]

Elli the last time you said that I flipped scum.
Stop using meta.

[Jack]

I like the par wagon.

[Parama]

I like the par wagon.

Yeah most people here who aren't town love it.

[VP Baltar]

how many scum are in this game Para?

[Parama]

6, + 4 other-sided players.
At least, until Jack cults someone.

[VP Baltar]

how did you arrive at that number?

[Parama]

A guess based on my role PM.

[Jack]

Probably not a good line of conversation.

[Parama]

Question: What do your previous two posts have to do with scumhunting?
Oh. Right.

[Parama]

That was at VP Baltar not Jack

[Jack]

You've changed your style since last time we played Par.

[Parama]

Last time we played I was scum