Mini 1105: A Mafia Invasion! (Game Over)

[Mute]

@Mute - I like this fence very much, thank you lol. No but in reality, it's just that. I'm not as adept at picking up on scumtells as some players, so I watch and listen and contribute what I can. I feel like if I vote irrationally I'll paint a target on myself and distract everyone else from the real scum. I know voting crazily can provoke discussion, and if the thread was running dry perhaps I would, but for now we seem to be discussing, and most people giving plenty of reactions and interactions, and that's whats going to be helpful to fine scum down the line. And in regards to everyone being here, thats true, but not everyone has done anything to really make them show up on my radar as town or scum. It's only the biggest posters that I'm noticing.

I'm gonna paraphrase an IC (or was it an SE? I forget.) from the newbie game I was playing prior to this one: Vote. Even if it's on a shaky platform, give yourself the stance and say "I feel X is scum because of Y." For now yeah discussion is good, and it's always a good thing to have as many opinions as possible.
I feel half-tempted to copy-paste his post but I'll refrain from it. It was rather long winded. Right now, you letting others do the talking for you comes off as scum opportunistic. But back to my question before: what have you noticed so far, and what's on your mind? If it helps to oust scum the better.

[Vigilante Ventriloquist]

@Vigilante - Is a vote without reason ever useful? I don't like that idea. To me, it looked like you voted Tasky with hardly any reason, and then once you saw other posters give their logic, Did the actions of the other players sway your reasoning at all? You made a vote that you could have easily withdrawed, but kept it once it looked like some other players had your back.

I see nothing wrong with voting without an accompanying reason. Even without a given reason, a vote can be used to pressure someone. In fact, that's the entire basis of the random stage: vote without real reasons to pressure and gauge reactions. When I voted Tasky, I had a reason that I have since explained. I just didn't give it at the time. Only you and VP Baltar posted about Tasky between my initial vote and my eventual reasoning for the vote and neither of you gave reasons that even remotely resembled mine. There was no reasoning of other players for me to have based my eventual reasoning on.

Besides, do you think that voting without a given reason is worse than not voting at all? Your vote is currently doing nothing. Mine is on someone I think is scummy.

[RossWilliam]

Fine

Vote: Vigilante Ventriloquist

For reasons stated, your vote for Tasky rubbed me the wrong way. I don't think Tasky is too scummy, I think he's reacting like someone who was told he wasn't funny. I don't think scum would be making such a big deal of my question and called attention to himself.

Now my vote is doing something, but I still want to here more from Dizzle, Ellibereth, Pappums rat & Guderian

[Vigilante Ventriloquist]

Well, at least you have your vote out. Now let's look back at this reasoning of yours:

@Vigilante - Is a vote without reason ever useful? I don't like that idea. To me, it looked like you voted Tasky with hardly any reason, and then once you saw other posters give their logic, Did the actions of the other players sway your reasoning at all? You made a vote that you could have easily withdrawed, but kept it once it looked like some other players had your back.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm summarizing your reasoning as saying that I'm scummy because my vote without reason made it easy for me to sit back and see how my vote went over. Basically, it sounds to me like your reasoning is explaining why it was scummy that I voted without a reason, not why I'm scummy independent of that. Based on your casting of a vote after I explained why a reasonless vote is better than no vote, you seem to agree that a vote without reason isn't actually that bad. If you think I'm scummy for my vote, explain what exactly about my vote makes it scummy.

I also find it strange that you seemed to be implying (or outright stating, perhaps) in your last couple of posts that you didn't have strong reads, yet you feel the need to defend Tasky in your most recent post. Why did you defend him? Did you suddenly decide you actually have a strong read on him or have you had that for a while? If so, what other reads do you have?

[RossWilliam]

I'm perfectly willing to admit I'm not voting based on much. My vote for you isn't very strong, my reasoning for not voting Tasky isn't very strong either. But as it has been said, better to put a vote out there even if it isn't a strong one. I dont have a strong read on anyone, which I believe I said already. But if I'm going to vote, I'm going to go with whatever I've got, whether it is incriminating evidence or not.

I still really didn't think your reasoning for voting Tasky were strong. A gut feeling that someone seems nervous is impossible to argue logically with. There is no way anyone can say to you "Sorry VV, your gut is wrong." I feel like if you truly believe Tasky is scum, you could have found something more. He's already done alot more in this game than make posts with 2 exclamation points, but thats your only draw on him? If you are town, than your grasping at straws, and if your scum, you've placed a vote that can't be challenged. No one is going to argue against gut. You can argue against the conditions in which the vote was made, but you can't argue against the vote itself

[Vigilante Ventriloquist]

Well, I never said I was voting on much. To be fair though, the exclamation points weren't the only thing i was voting based on. They were simply an example of a pattern I was pointing out. You're right in saying it can't be easily challenged, but that doesn't change whether or not my reasoning is valid.

What I'm more interested in now is your out-of-nowhere defense of Tasky. If you really have only a weak read on him, as you now claim, why did you go out of your way to defend him? In fact, your defense of Tasky took up most of the post in which you put out your vote on me. That looks to me like you were using the fact that I was wrong as the bulk of your argument, which is very odd in conjunction with your supposed lack of a strong read. To be a bit more explicit about it, perhaps you know Tasky is town because you're scum and thought that would be the easiest way to attack me?

[Guderian]

What is this I dont even...

Rob, where are you mate? Get in here. I know you like posting a lot.

Now my vote is doing something, but I still want to here more from Dizzle, Ellibereth, Pappums rat & Guderian

What is your vote doing, and why those people?

[RossWilliam]

VV, I'm not defending Tasky. What you call a defense wouldn't do a very good job swaying anybody's opinion on him. I was going to vote either one of you, and I gave my logic as to why I thought Tasky was less suspicious. I don't understand the logic that you're pushing.

Guderian, my vote is putting VV one step closer to lynch. That's all a vote does. And three of those people I named are the ones on the Mute Bandwagon from RVS who haven't said much otherwise. And you, you're in your own category., I liked posts 27 and 29 and I wanted to hear more, what you thought about the goings on. That's all.

[AGar]

VOTE: Mute

The pseudo-ICing is far from genuine townie action, it reads to me as a scumbag freaking out because there's a largely town driven wagon on him right now.

[VP Baltar]

^ I don't get that vote at all AGar.

[Vigilante Ventriloquist]

VV, I'm not defending Tasky. What you call a defense wouldn't do a very good job swaying anybody's opinion on him. I was going to vote either one of you, and I gave my logic as to why I thought Tasky was less suspicious. I don't understand the logic that you're pushing.

Really? That's not what your post says.

Vote: Vigilante Ventriloquist

For reasons stated, your vote for Tasky rubbed me the wrong way. I don't think Tasky is too scummy, I think he's reacting like someone who was told he wasn't funny. I don't think scum would be making such a big deal of my question and called attention to himself.

This doesn't sound like you explaining why you find him "less suspicious." This is you explaining why you don't find him suspicious at all. Explaining why you don't think a player is suspicious = defending that player. The fact that you did so unprompted seemingly as justification for your vote on me along with your response to being called out on it is enough for me to

unvote, vote: RossWilliam

More opinions on RossWilliam would be nice.

[Dizzle]

Why Dizzle's yet to answer Ellibereth's question?For starters.

When he asked about my random vote? Well, it was random. Done.

@Gud - You've had a couple questions for Mute and Ross, any opinions of your own you'd like to share?

Well, I never said I was voting on much. To be fair though, the exclamation points weren't the only thing i was voting based on. They were simply an example of a pattern I was pointing out.

A pattern of general nervousness or is there more to your vote I'm missing?

@Ross - The biggest thing I don't get so far about you why you changed your philosophy about voting. You said you didn't like voting "irrationally" as it could make you a target but as soon as Mute suggested that you vote, you do so. And for someone you admittedly don't have strong read on. Why listen to Mute?

@Mute - Are you indeed freaking out?

[Vigilante Ventriloquist]

Yes, it was based on a pattern of general nervousness. I've since decided that RossWilliam is scummier and believe that RosWilliam being scum would likely make Tasky town.

[Mute]

@Dizzle/AGar: Not at all.

[RossWilliam]

@Dizzle: It wasn't just Mute that swayed me, I got this from VV too

Besides, do you think that voting without a given reason is worse than not voting at all? Your vote is currently doing nothing. Mine is on someone I think is scummy.

Once there was more than one people criticizing me for not having a vote yet it was enough to get me to put one out, even if I might not keep it out.

@VV: It was my opinion of him. There was nothing to defend him from. It's anti-town to condemn someone for stating their opinions of another player. Don't you want to hear what everyone thinks? Or do you just want someone to lynch?

[Ellibereth]

What is this I dont even...
Rob, where are you mate? Get in here. I know you like posting a lot.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/search.php?a ... 8&sr=posts
KATTTTTTTTTTA

Well, it was random. Done.

Liar.

Methinks Mutey is at L-1?

[Ellibereth]

Nevermind I fail at counting.

[Zachrulez]

2nd vote count of day 1:

Mute - 5 (Dizzle, VP Baltar, Pappums rat, Ellibereth, AGar)
VP Baltar - 2 (Llamagod, Mute)
Rosswilliam - 2 (Tasky, Vigilante Ventrioquist)
Llamagod - 1 (Robcapone)
Vigilante Ventrioquist - 1 (Rosswilliam)

Not voting: (Guderian, Jerbs)

With 13 alive it's 7 to lynch

Day 1 will end no later than Friday Jan 14th at 3pm CST

[Ellibereth]

Unvote, vote Rob

[Ellibereth]

From a non-lurkerhunting standpoint...
I don't like Tasky and Dizzle.

[Ellibereth]

Right now I'd like to know why pappums rat was so easily swayed by Tasky to change their vote, that strikes me as odd. Why Dizzle's yet to answer Ellibereth's question?

Muteeeee
I don't get why you're interested in these things. especially one of them.

[Mute]

Right now I'd like to know why pappums rat was so easily swayed by Tasky to change their vote, that strikes me as odd. Why Dizzle's yet to answer Ellibereth's question?

Muteeeee
I don't get why you're interested in these things. especially one of them.

Transition from the RVS to actual gameplay, just stuff to spark gameplay/discussion with.

Unvote

Right now I'm not confident enough to place a vote on anyone in particular, but I'm watching now AGar for using votes placed during RVS as his argument and for lack of real content so far. I'd like to hear from Rob/Jerbs as well.

[Guderian]

@Gud - You've had a couple questions for Mute and Ross, any opinions of your own you'd like to share?

Hello Mr. Pot.

I think all these rumblings between VV and RossWilliam and Mute are interesting but ultimately fruitless.

Agar's vote smells wrong. I disagree that anything Mute has done with regards to the 'pusedo IC-ing' warrants a vote. Do you really believe mute is scum, and there were five town on him as of the time of your post?

Don't like Dizzle. Your questions seem to be without point.

Robcapone is lurking, while in other games he is quick to try and hunt down lurkers.

Vote: RobCapone

[VP Baltar]

unvote, Vote:robcapone

Which other games Guderian?

Excuse making may commence, Robby boy.

[Jerbs]

@Dizzle: It wasn't just Mute that swayed me, I got this from VV too

Besides, do you think that voting without a given reason is worse than not voting at all? Your vote is currently doing nothing. Mine is on someone I think is scummy.

Once there was more than one people criticizing me for not having a vote yet it was enough to get me to put one out, even if I might not keep it out.

So what you're saying is that if enough people tell you to vote someone, you will?

Is a vote without reason ever useful? I don't like that idea. To me, it looked like you voted Tasky with hardly any reason, and then once you saw other posters give their logic, Did the actions of the other players sway your reasoning at all? You made a vote that you could have easily withdrawed, but kept it once it looked like some other players had your back.

All votes have reasons. They just might not be good. If you vote to put pressure on someone, thats a reason. Unless you mean that voting without stating a reason is not useful?

I still really didn't think your reasoning for voting Tasky were strong. A gut feeling that someone seems nervous is impossible to argue logically with. There is no way anyone can say to you "Sorry VV, your gut is wrong." I feel like if you truly believe Tasky is scum, you could have found something more. He's already done alot more in this game than make posts with 2 exclamation points, but thats your only draw on him? If you are town, than your grasping at straws, and if your scum, you've placed a vote that can't be challenged. No one is going to argue against gut. You can argue against the conditions in which the vote was made, but you can't argue against the vote itself

you yourself said that a weak vote is better than no vote at all.

Vote: RossWilliam

@VV

Why would RossWilliam being scum make Tasky town? They just got into a little argument. That has no influence on whether or not they are scum or town

@Rob

Where are you? It's clear you're posting elsewhere. Lurking is bad for town, and a common way for scum to hide

FOS: Rob