Mini 1137: Long Overdue Mafia [Game Over!]

[Faraday]

ah dead qt. yes...um.

I completely missed Bud being at L-1.

yeah

. And I was like OH SHIT GONNA CONFIRM MYSELF LOLZ.

[andrew94]

called pine being scum
gg

sorry to have to replace out

[Faraday]

btw anyone calling pappums scum here, need to re-read his play. or get used to gambits, sure theoretically it could come from scum but it was so awesome here and had such a pro town effect. good play P. Rat.

[Setael]

btw anyone calling pappums scum here, need to re-read his play. or get used to gambits, sure theoretically it could come from scum but it was so awesome here and had such a pro town effect. good play P. Rat.

Seconded.

Scummy award nomination for most pro-town gambit.

[havingfitz]

btw anyone calling pappums scum here, need to re-read his play. or get used to gambits, sure theoretically it could come from scum but it was so awesome here and had such a pro town effect. good play P. Rat.

Bullshit. All it did was divert town attention from scum. The three main areas of focus out of this gambit were Void who was the gambit target, papum who executed the "gambit", and me who pappums identified as his main suspect as a result of the gambit. So townPR decides to indict townVoid and the end result of D1 is three townies have spent the entire day arguing about a lie and suspecting each other with Void getting mislynched. Yeah...it was super pro-town

Are there nominations for Most scum-beneficial town Gambit?

[Faraday]

it did that because you guys let it, tbh.

[havingfitz]

it did that because you guys let it, tbh.

Oh...ok. It was "pro-town" despite the result it had. That makes sense.

[Cecily]

I just wish I had had more time to devote to this game. In terms of coherence, I think I'm getting better, though I'm still not an english major so phrasing myself is hard in some situations. And in terms of arguments I think I did pretty well considering I called that last Faraday scum. It's just my ability to convince others that I really need work on.

And I didn't go back on myself like I tended to do in other games so I think that's a good thing.

[Setael]

btw anyone calling pappums scum here, need to re-read his play. or get used to gambits, sure theoretically it could come from scum but it was so awesome here and had such a pro town effect. good play P. Rat.

Bullshit. All it did was divert town attention from scum. The three main areas of focus out of this gambit were Void who was the gambit target, papum who executed the "gambit", and me who pappums identified as his main suspect as a result of the gambit. So townPR decides to indict townVoid and the end result of D1 is three townies have spent the entire day arguing about a lie and suspecting each other with Void getting mislynched. Yeah...it was super pro-town

Are there nominations for Most scum-beneficial town Gambit?

When I originally read, the gambit gave me reads of Pine + PT scum and you + cecily town, which I posted in my pine wall of death. As it played out it might not have read as protown as it did to us replacements.

[Rhinox]

Rhinox, this was a fucking beautiful setup. Although, I feel it would've been pretty damn hard to find a goon buddy by neighborization.

Thanks <3

I agree it would've been tough, though, not finding a goon at least tells the traitor who is NOT mafia.


I was really diggin' PR's gambit. @fitz: Setael and Faraday are right. After PR came clean, it was you who made the big deal about PR lying, rather than looking around at other players' reactions and thinking hmmm, if this really was a gambit, how would town and scum react to voided being called guilty if he a) really was, or b) wasn't, and seeing who fit the profiles. I understand PR did lie, but in the heat of the moment I was feeling like town wasn't really taking advantage of the gambit there.

Actually, were I in PR's position there, I'd have considered not coming clean at all and just following through with lynching voided since his reaction to being called guilty was so bad.

[mikemike778]

Thanks for the win anyway Faraday Didn't particularly love my role as wasn't sure how to play it (was close to not neighboring anyone) but still not been lynched on this site yet so can't be doing that badly.

Yeah, it's hard to play. Neighbourising means you can become proper scum though, so.

Well, not COMPLETELY proper scum. He would have had scum team knowledge and night communication, but he still couldn't make a kill and it would still be game over if both goons were killed.

On the plus side, mikemike should have had an advantage in that its easier to look like you're genuinely scum hunting when you don't know who the scum are. The problem is, if you're too good at scum hunting and lynch the goons, well

I thought you played the role pretty well mike sorry if you didn't love the role that was half the motivation for giving you the neighborizing ability to spice it up a little.

No it was sort of interesting to play , just wouldn't want that role regularly as didn't really know what to do. In the end I figured I'd just play as town early doors and then when Pine went down tunnel in on someone I was sure was town.

[mikemike778]

Vote: Chkflip

Now with the knowledge that Pine is scum, this post looks really bad:

UNVOTE: P.T.
VOTE: Satael

Way too interested in rushing the current wagon, amongst other scummy things they've done.

That was the extent of the case that chk was presenting against Sateal. It was a terribly weak vote, and it reads of chk trying to attack the attacker of a scumbud (chainsaw defense).

@Chk: What made Satael's pushing of the pine wagon scummy at that time?

Doesn't seem a great scum tactic to me ... Pine was looking very likely to be lynched, not sure that scum would want to put their head on the line by trying to slow down the wagon. Yeah agreed 100% on the weak vote though.

mike, i'm curious - when you posted this, did you think chkflip was scum?

Not massively ... it was more a 'this is what I would be thinking if I was town' kinda post. I didn't have a town read on him though otherwise I wouldn't have posted that.

[mikemike778]

mike did you seriously not pick up on my OBVIOUS hints calling you to hammer lol?

Lol I just thought it was pretty amusing and ignored it tbh. I knew Bub was town and knew he would lynch Cec sooner or later so it was all pretty much irrelevent. If she was my buddy I figured I'd at least make you lot kill her instead of handing it to you.

[havingfitz]

@fitz: Setael and Faraday are right.

That's your opinion. I disagree. You are speaking from the perspective of knowing it was a gambit while D1 unfolded. Town wasn't so fortunate. It completely derailed any legitimate scumhunting that I, Void, or pappums could have done if it hadn't occured. And knows how Setael and Faraday would have viewed it if they experienced it. Though I suspect Faraday would be of the same opinion since he would have known it was a gambit just like you did. The D1 activities only confirm my opinion that town should not lie. I admit it was ballsy and in hindsight I find it amusing, but that doesn't mean it was helpful to town.

Even though it was a town loss I still enjoyed this game a lot. It seemed to drag a lot at times which did not help but it was enjoyable nonetheless.

[Voidedmafia]

Fitz, did you want to see my notes from D1?

[havingfitz]

If you post them I'll peruse them.

[Voidedmafia]

As you wish.

(X/x) First number (big x) is the post in regards to the entire game, starting with the first post after IK confirmed. Second number (small x) is the number in ISO, though I didn't actually get around to filling that out after I did that the first time.

This is rather incomplete near the end, as I was going to completely update this day's events up to the final VC if I wasn't lynched. Sorry about that.

Andrew94/chkflip:
(31/2)-RVS Havingfitz
(61/3)-votes Xalxe for an off reaction
(91/5)-Dislikes Mikemike's reaction to a policy lynch
(165)-Randomly mentions that neighborizer isn't always town-aligned.
(169)-Wants to know where someone replied to him. Okay...
(170)-Bullshit post with a completely inaccurate chronology of a post and abosolutely no information as to why he thinks Neil is scummy.
(192)-Even with said bullshhit, he turns around and votes Pappums instead. -_-
(193)-Seemingly thinks that Neil's gonna be lynched D2, which is far, FAR from the truth.
(225)-Complains about being unable to do things (liar)
(228)-Says Neil fencesits because he calls someone scumming w/o vote and then advocates for another lynch...that's fencesitting?
(252)-replies to Jahudo.
(253)-EBWOP
(280)-Says the only way to know if rat is lying is to lynch him.
(303)-Wants a lynch.
(378)-Suspicious of Pine's unvote/revote.
(417)-Tells Pine that his un/re wouldn't be in the right place in VC analysis...which makes no sense.
(434)-Tells Barnum he's a fool voting for Andrew since Fitz/Pappums are the lynches of the day.
(448)-Again derides Barnum for not voting Fitz or Pappums
Acts defensive against Fitz. And distances herself from word-flinging (which is really just one-sided.)
(---)-Replaced by chkflip
---------------------------------
(536)-Apparantly dislikes my reaction to the gambit.
(581)-Replies to me.
(590)-Tries to say I'm not scumhunting (though I explained why I wasn't, though maybe not at that point. Not like I'm the only one not hunting. <_<
Explains why that one link was attention-grabbing, though it really wasn't

Cecily:
(48/4)-RVS Mikemike
(53/5)-RQS as well
Dislikes walls, quotes necessaries, prefers what you do over what you say, isn't good at expressing opinions.
(76/6)-good reason to ask for timeframes. Wouldn't want that to happen at all.
I'm not tense, dummy.
good call, Cecily, on Pappums
(81/7)-Doesn't like pushes because they lead to early lynches, she says.
(88/8)-Got a little defensive about what others thought of her opinion on Pappums
(110/9 and 115/10)-Votes me like there's no other choice.
(160)-Is impressed with my defense, apparantly.
Thinks I just rifled through roles (which I didn't)
Thinks it's better to know who exactly is lying that just randomly guessing.
(163)-Says no one's jumped out because they're all focused on me.
(166)-Doesn't think my suspect question is necessary because of the early claim.
Thinks she's not alone in criticizing Pappums claim (and she's not).
(181)-Thinks Pappums got the game rolling (which I'd grudgingly agree with). But is still suspicious of my claim.
Thinks Pappums is cleared (no he's not). However, when trying to explain, she realizes that Pap's actions may still be scummy.
(234)-Backs off of Pappums because of how she feels about the gambit.
THinks Neil is scummy for the name-calling.
(240)-Wonders why it's so bad to agree with people, and says Neil's out of the spotlight by calling names.
(250)-calls andrew obnoxious
(279)-post later due to new schedule
(298)-Votes Fitz for what others have said.
(329)-Explains why she's voting Fitz.
(375)-Says she was for lynching me because of Rat's claim, now thinks that nothing but night will come out of quicklynching.
THEN tells Fitz not to misquote her.
(387)-replies to Fitz.
(482)-Originally voted Fitz for his overemotional reaction to Rat's gambit, and agreed with rat's "Fuck You" post because Fitz's walls were just being annoying (annoying to read, yes, but not annoying any other way).
If she goes with voting based off reactions, then rat is the best one to vote for, by far.
Finally notes that she only defended Rat for the gambit, then votes Rat.
(493)-Finds Barnum not focusing on the two main wagons silly and distancing, considering he didn't really get involved in them.
Tells Jahudo that scum in her experience are either forceful and out in the open or stay hidden.
(498)-Notes that emotional may not have been the best term for Fitz, but rather overly sensitive.
She didn't push his lynch, now she is. Problem, Fitz?
Thinks there's usually nothing to go with d1 (WRONG!), and says that Ftiz autojumping her for not fitting in is stupid.
(567)-She made that one line in her voteswitch post because of people misunderstanding due to preconcieved notions.
Split between Nacho/Rat and Fitz.
Dislikes Fitz's neil targeting, adding that it seems that Fitz attacks those who attack him like an "I'm right, anyone else who disagrees is enemy," kind of mind.
Also agrees with Nacho's points on me.

Havingfitz:
(32/1)-Possible OMGUS vote Andrew. Also catches possible slip by him saying "we"
(67)-Apparantly thinks telling timezones is bad, for whatever reason
tunnels
(85)-Defends Cecily's timeframe question, but also asks how she would mitigate a quicklynch from said question.
Also doesn't like Andrew and would policy lynch him if he could, though he wouldn't do so right now, apparantly.
(101)-Quite eager to get me lynched after Rat's reveal.
(103)-His rationale is that by not lynching me we'll allow scum to get better NK targets, which may or may not be true. But I do agree we need to prove Pappum's claim (which I bet is false)
(140)-Questions pappum's claim and ego for the claim and thinking Fitz is my buddy, but still wants my lynch over with (NO!)
(148)-Though he disproves that cops are always Sane, he still believes Pappums.
(150)-Says having andrew PL-ed wasn't to avoid discussion.
Also wonders why I'm not lynched yet.
(156)-Hasn't implied that they aren't stupid enough to let me be that easily.
(157)-Questions why we shouldn't belive Pappums, says that a one-shot inaccurate role isn't practical, and is suspicious of my role mix-up.
(161)-Thinks my reasons don't hold water.
(187)-Calls major bullshit on Pappums due to wasted time, then votes him.
Still doesn't quite believe my claim.
(201)-Wonders where Neil said he was scummy.
Says Pappums benefits becasue it makes people think he's too scummy for scum, and therefore town. Also points out that Rat diverted scumhunting (very true)
Tells andrew the role and shot were lies.
Thinks we're basically back to square one.
(205)-Says Neil has only posted one thing against him.
Sees his reasoning for Rat voting is to be on liarwagon w/o PL, then continues to question him about why he didn't vote me and his reaction to the claim and such.
Ratscum lynch clears us both, town lynch=Neil vote
(206)-Notes that the only substantial IK post is where he sees Rat's claim as fake, which means he has inside knowledge or is intuitive.
(216)-Says he wasn't jumping.
Went to Rat becasue 1.)His vote on me wasn't valid, 2.)His vote was on Rat in the first place, and 3.)Rat lied and wasted our time.
Didn't rolefish, and then accuses mike of rolefishing right after
(229)-Replies to Neil.
(233)-Replies to Neil.
(268)-replies to mikemike
(272)-Denounces pappums for saying Fitz was ad-homieming (cuz he wasn't)
Also makes a case on rat
(286)-Replies to Jahudo.
(288)-reply to IK and Jinxx
(290)-reply to rat (289).
(307)-replies to IK, Jahudo, and Cecily.
(310)-Reiterates the points against himself, and says why IK is scummy: That his accusations are horrid.
(321)-Calls out Neil on his reasons for wanting Jerbs/Bub lynched.
(356)-Replies to Neil, rat, and Cecily.
(365)-Says that one post about town being calm was sarcastic, and hopes people realize that no reactions are garaunteed either way.
(369)-Says that Neil's post above this (368) was to something that wasn't directed at Neil. And asks for comments on Cecily's case and Rat's overreaction.
(385)-reiterates why Rat should be lynched. And replies to Cecily.
Notes how IK "blindly" defends Pappums.
(388)-replies to Cecily.
(395)-1.) Everyone plays differently.
2.)Says that he's eyed Neil, but he isn't a suspect like his top three. Also doesn't think all 3 scum are necessarily on his wagon.
(398)-Slightly suspcious way to thank someone for agreeing.
(407)-Calls out Rat for doing nothing, AGAIN.
Calls out TO for her suspicions on him and how she disregards rat's gambit.
Says Jahudo isn't making sense with him being unwilling to accept valid points against Cecily, etc., and FoS Pine though Pine has good reasons for his case.
Notes that a Rat townflip wouldn't put him in a good cornet, but hopes his points would stand on their own for Rat to have been lynched.
Notes how Rat is essentially still here because of Fitz. FOE YAY!
(410)-Says he didn't notice Jahudo's suspicions of Cecily, but that was because Jahudo just left them a week and a half ago.
(413)-Doesn't think his way is the way, and would've been on Cecily if Rat's gambit hadn't happened or if the onlly problem WAS the lie itself. But Rat's post-lie game hasn't helped rat.
(415)-Tells mike that rat's gambit isn't all why he's voting rat.
(435)-Reposts a snide comment to Pappums when the latter said that he's only here for fitz (remember, FOE YAY!)
(442)-Wouldn't support an Andrew pl since there's better candidates for a lynch
Another snide Rat comment that he should look for the answers.
(450)-Pressures Cecily to respond.
(475)-Tells Rat to use the ISO function.
Questions Pine's list and asks for Cecily thoughts. Also asks if he ever had a case against Fitz.
I suppose reiterates what he thinks of PR, but softens to vote Cecily instead.
(479)-Asks Pinewhy Cecily isn't #2 D1 when she's #1 D2. Notes that Pine's effort came after others, and looks forward to his case. Also finds it interesting about why Pine dismisses Neil as scum.
(494)-Notes that, with rat walking out and other nonvoters leaning towards the wagon (along with her nonpush), she suddenly votes for him, which Fitz finds scummy.
Questions Cecily's voting reasons, and asks if she'd vote for whoever got the most emotional.
(499)-Says that his play throughout the day was pretty similar.
Also asks how he was automatically jumping Cecily, and that he's only placed her as scum.
(516)-Calls IK out for posting...nothing.
(551)-Notes that his current uncertainty with Pappums bumps Neil up as a scumspect, but not enough to shift him off of Cecily
(553)-His suspicion on Neil hasn't changed, and that if Rat isn't his suspect, then Neil certainly comes up the list.
(561)-IK is scummy for a crap case on Fitz, continued defense and blind eye to Rat.
(587)-Wants to know my top suspects.
(593)-Again pushes for my suspects, in a much nicer way, too, than Chk.
(597)-Would prefer a Cecily lynch over anyone else.
(603)-Points out how my claim isn't worth considering. Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww...the NK victim. I like that little line.
(610-1)-Notes how quick I went to L-1, and would want my last thoughts.
Also notes how Fitz's biggest suspects aren't on the case.

IdiotKing:
(50)-RVS Xalxe for Jahudo distancing
(59)-Finds it odd Xal jumped once Jahudo joined
(77)-Says the distancing part was a joke, his main point was Xal's misunderstanding.
Jahudo was only related to the quick unvote.
(78)-He just wanted to observe Xal's unusual vote.
(147)-Does not like what Pappums did AT ALL. Does not believe my flip would clear pappums, and that this could be a gambit between two buddies.
Seriously questions why he used it so early.
(236)-Doesn't like gambits, and would approve of Lynch all Liars. However, thinks this gambit was worthwhile.
Thinks Fitz is playing more by his emotions.
Really going for an Andrew lynch
(237)-Also dislikes the Neil/Fitz trolling.
(281-2)-Vote Fitz for shifting loyalties
(283)-Notes how sudden and absolute Fitz went from believe Pappums to be loyal town to lying scum.
(293)-Replies to Fitz.
(308)-says fitz needs to start arguing with some semblance of not deriding others.
(309)-Then asks him why he thinks IK is scum.
(380)-Feels that rat's overreaction was from trolling by Fitz.
(389)-stupid question.
(392)-says that his (Fitz's) three suspicions are people who attacked him, and doesn't think it's a coincidence.
(393)-1.) Fitz doesn't understand deliberation.
2.)Fitz thinks all three scum are on his wagon.
3.) ad-hom.
(511)-Apparantly didn't replace only because of the influx of replacements.
Thinks Rat went Ad-hom-crazy because fitz was pissing him off (so how does that explain why he got on me so much?)
Hasn't gone over anyone because of little time.

Jahudo:
(34)-RVS Xalxe
(43)-Votes Idiotking just to wagon.
(70)-he also mad I'm not RVSing. Also says Jinxx is no better (which is true)
Questions idiotking's quasi-joke reply post. He notes that IK didn't retract the distancing theory, and questions why this is more on Jahudo than Xalxe.
Thinks scum could exploit a question about timeframes, though I personally see no really potential there.
Thinks Xalxe's unvote was instinct
(105)-Thinks this is either a gambit or a real claim. But really?
(141)-Doesn't see why he should stay silent about the gambit, so no quicklynches happen.
Also thinks I'm trying to reason with Xalxe and Mikemike, though I don't think you could call it that.
Also says there's some tell from post 113, but won't say if its scum or town.
(153)-Only agrees with Neil in the sense that people need reads.
Thinks I'm defending poorly: Hasn't voted for Pappums, ignored others (not like I can't, since they're all doing the same thing), and is iffy about my claim.
(182)-Is mainly still suspicious about whether I lied about my role (well, I technically did). Also thinks my correction (I think) is like an offhand comment.
(210)-VMtown: Scum would've wanted an early lynch to avoid D1 extension or Rat lynch D2. Best case is D3 with 2 mislynches and little/no hunting.
VMscum: Buddy would've been on wagon.
suspects Jinxx, P.T., fitz, Cecily, and Xal, and thinks it'd make sense to lynch one of them.
(241)-Tells P.T. that scum would've jumped on the wagon for an easy quicklynch.
Also goes over those who voted for me, singling out Cecily and Fitz as scummy. Then votes Fitz.
(273)-Gives reasons not to blindly follow pappums to a hammer.
(294)-replies to Havingfitz.
(324)-Says that the name-calling wasn't scummy, and asks Cecily what she thinks of how Neil stopped.
(401)-FoSs Pine for his LaL, for using theory confidence to ignore giving reads, and asks why he thinks Fitz is a suspect.
(408)-Says that a D1 gambit would get the town thinking and connections to form.
(409)-asks why his suspicions for Cecily are invalid.
(486)-notes that Rat expected his gambit to be better recieved (he doesn't like it? Too bad)
Asks Cecily why a more forceful playstyle would by more scummy.
(488)-Questions Pine about the gambit.
(491)-Notes that Town DO do mindgames, and other town like it/don't mind.
Thinks that Rat and myself would be the two we wouldn't get clear reads on based on the gambit.
(556)-Agrees with Bub on Rat's actions
Restates what he thinks about what the gambit did: Got him several reads, but left Rat and I in the dark.
(609)-Votes me.

Jerbs/Bub Bidderskins:
(183)-Wants to keep me alive.
(242)-Basically posts...nothing.
(256)-more one-post nothings.
(295)-Says he was original suspicious of Mike, then wasn't.
(317)-replaces out.
-------------------------
(323)-Unvotes.
(372)-Apparantly just got to Rat's fakeclaim, along with a HoS.
(419)-At Page 9. Thinks Rat is town, despite how WIFOM-y him doing that gambit was. he thinks that it doesn't benefit scum (it does)
(540)-Disagrees with both current wagons.
Notes that Jahudo is fencesitting.
Suspects Pine and Neil.
Pine: Says he could go to Fitz after rat, for two mislynches, or go for Fitz, then jump back to rat and say "He was scummier all along"
Neil: Though he stays on the rat wagon, he still heavily attacks Fitz, apparantly indicating he's not confident about the rat lynch, and that it's a mislynch.
Votes Neil.
(543)-Says that pressuring both wagons is counter-productive.
(546)-tries to say, essentially, that Neil can't give other reasoning.
(548)-Thinks that lynching because of what did (or would've) come of the lie is LAL.
(549)-And wants explaination of why his case is WIFOM.
(554)-Asks Neil to answer his questions (though I answered one)
(555)-Notes that Cecily has been acting scummy, most notably her switchpost. He bolded the first sentence and asks why town would do that.
IK is town, though.
(558)-Cautious=scummy. <_<
(562)-Says that Fitz's only thing at the time was the gambit, and that IK has some points on you.
(576)-Notes Neil's aversion to the WIFOM question.
(606)-Votes me

Jinxx/Tarsonisocelot:
(40)-he mad that I'm not RVSing
(69)-Or posting
(117)-Trusts his gut for his vote, which is stupid
(243)-Not sure what to think of Pappums's gambit.
Thinks my arguments were genuinely town with the gambit over.
Against LAL or PLs.
Calls Jerbs terrible (and right so) and votes for him.
Also thinks Neil is town and Fitz is scum.
(276)-post later
(305)-Will replace if he can't reply by Wednesday.
---------------------------------
(355)-Opens with general reads, and unvote.
(357)-Says that Fitz's reaction to the gambit was too emotional.
(400)-Says that Rat just reacted to fitz, and that she would've done the same.
(411)-Replies to fitz, asks pappums, Pine, and Andrew questions.
(477)-Notes how Neil is getting less and less towny, somehow, and lists possible wagon results.
(481)-Works things as probability trees (wha?) and has a less nuanced view of tells. Will vote Friday based on those trees
(504)-Votes Pine, says Pine's suspicious...and leaves it.
(608)-Replies to Fitz, and votes me.

Mikemike778:
(36)-RVS Jahudo
(72)-Points out it's not exactly good scum to outright refuse RVS, and therefore get attention.
(86)-Doesn't think a quicklynch is possible, or would be a good idea for scum.
Not sure who else he's referring to on point 2, maybe me?
(107)-Not too keen on voting me. Also notes how Fitz hasn't been to much in terms of helping.
(112)-Questions if there's a doctor.
(133)-Goes with the fact Rat said not to lynch
(149)-Thinks there's no reason for me to not be the day's lynch.
Thinks there's a scumslip with Fitz going for Andrew's policy lynch.
(213)-Pappums is scum, I'm not scum, Fitz kinda scum, Andrew null.
Also thinks Fitz is jumpy.
(257-60)-A defense he could've had in one post.
Suggests andrew works on his sentences.
wonders what jerb's little "ISO" (and not even that) was for.
Asks fitz why he thinks Rat would be investigated=rolefishing.
Tells jerb that we do have some stuff to look over.
(261)-EBWOP. Says that his main issue with Fitz is the immediate overreactions.
(297)-Replies to some post, and Fitz.
(326)-Says that a new replacement can hurt the scumteam, hence why they go after replacements.
(397)-Says that he hasn't seen a lot of townies attacking replacements, yet has seen scum NK replacements.
Believes that we would've still been in RVS without Rat's gambit, and still thinks Rat's town, having seen nothing scummy (riiight...)
Finds himself agreeing with Fitz after his 385 to go after Cecily next.
(414)-Questions why I think it'd clear Cecily, though I think I mean someone else.
Says that Rat expressly asked for no quicklynch, and that Rat just looks like an easy scum lynch target
(422)-Has already explained why he's voting Fitz.
Again says that rat has done nothing scummy post-gambit.
He would only vote Rat because of the gambit, and thinks this is why Fitz is voting rat. WRONG!
(424)-Calls all that Fitz has done WIFOM, which is so far from the truth.
Admits that Rat isn't clear in his book, but says his wagon has too much enthusiasm for his taste
(441)-We should really only pl D1.
Still thinks Fitz, but would go to andrew if that would get going.
(485)-Agrees with Barnum about not worrying about voting.
Wonders why we're still going on about the gambit (well, why WOULDN'T we?)
Thinks that Pine saying that whoever thinks rat is scum is D2 buddy lynch is also quite scummy
Wants Tars to say who sh thinks is scum
(500)-Also points out that Barnum has noted Fitz/Rat, and asks Cecily why he has to be all on Fitz and Rat? Mike says that's tunneling.
Agrees with PT on pine points, and sees PT as neutral.
Scum: Cecily, Pine, and Fitz. former two are alternates for Fitz.
(582)-Not going with my wagon.
Reiterates P.T.'s two cases on pine and Neil
(589)-Wasn't sure how anyone could get a confident read on Andrew
Comparing P.T.'s reasonings for voting Andrew to voting me, he doesn't see how either one is better.

Neil1113:
(57/4)-RVS Xalxe (or maybe not)
Says something was a joke
(93)-Wants Andrew to step it up
(95)-Seriously questions Rat's claim
(98)-Apparantly didn't understand my reasoning to my first reply, though I did.
(100)-says he'd be useless to Mafia.
(102)-Doesn't want me lynched just yet (good call), and thinks we can still get some info.
(152)-Thinks we should just use the remainder of the day to pressure others, and if nothing comes up, jump back on me.
(188)-Doesn't like the lying, nor people clearing becasue of the move. Therefore, Pappums ain't clean yet
(195)-Thinks Xalxe's argument is that Rat's move was "too scummy to be scum" and uses meta to explain that that's a bad thing to say.
Quite clearly poses questions against andrew's bullshit arguments.
(203)-Says he just has reasons that fitz is scummy.
Doesn't want to lynch Rat becasue he lied, but because of what would've happened.
THinks Xal slipped, and wants to know how it's in any way town-motivated.
(223-4)-Essentially tears into Fitz's posts. No other comment becasue it'd take quite a lot of space.
(230)-Oddly semi-backs off, for lack of a better way to put it.
(238)-Replies to Fitz, Cecily, and Pappums.
(291)-replies to Rat (289).
(304)-Suspcious of the wagon due to the people on it.
(320)-Says he'll vote Rat, then Jerbs, Jerbs mainly because of the replacing.
(327)-Says Fitz said that to get people off his wagon.
(330)-Basically hates replacements.
(333)-Wants a case on Rat(?) that stands.
(368)-Says that Fitz and rat are the only two really viable lynches today.
(429)-Wants to OK an Andrew pl.
(439)-Notes Pappum's OMGUS reads.
(444-6)-Notes the obvious failure of Rat to refute Neil's accusation, again calls the reads OMGUS, and says that if the town went to Fitz (or Andrew), he'd vote, but he's not comfortable with it.
Then says that he doesn't think rat is town, which makes the fallacy Rat mentioned fail. And he also believes Rat is scum-aligned.
(467)-Requests self-hammer of PR, hammer, and enforcement of rule 4.
(480)-Questions if Tars just posted the most fluffy WIFOm post in the game, and says his 467 isn't a scumtell.
(502)-doesn't find Cecily scummy, but admits he might be biased. Notes the pine case, but it won't move him.
(547)-Calls Bub's case WIFOM.
(552)-Gets a little defensive with Fitz, claiming he's taken Bub's fluffed up case and used it as a point of attack, complete with a threat to vote.
(575)-Notes that Nacho's answer to my question #4 was a bit close-minded.
(598)-Asks P.T. for his Andrew case, CONVENIENTLY missing the post where Mikemike reposted it.
Also wants to know if my claim is reasonably verifiable
(601)-Double lazy? Wants to know what my role would do this game, then brazenly (for lack of a better word) says P.T. has no case on Andrew.

P.T. Barnum:
(55)-Enjoys brevity
(83/4)RVS Idiotking
(83)-Dislikes Xal's play
-Doesn't think IK's wagon built fast.
(106)-believes lynching me would confirm pappums either way, doesn't want speculation about my role for WIFOM
(121)-No hammering me!
(167)-Doesn't buy my claim, and thinks I flailed replying to Jahudo.
Suspects neil for posts 93 and 57.
Thinks Xalxe's suspicion of him is nonsense, and thinks his wagon is worth picking up.
(219)-Points out that it was an obvgambit, and that scum weren't dying to get on my wagon.
(270)-Doesn't see Neil as scummy, but now sees Xal as scummy. Votes.
And would still back my wagon -_-
(284)-Votes Jerbs since Xalxe's gonna be replaced.
(315)-Wants a wagon on Jerbs.
(344)-Is basically lost with Jerbs leaving.
(402)-Will go over who he thinks should be lynched tomorrow (D2).
Thinks the Fitz wagonn is nonsense.
Not sold on Pappums's wagon, and would rather lynch me.
Thinks Rat has a lot of leverage now, but doesn't like his tone when talking to Fitz.
(433)-Lays out why he thinks Pine and Andrew are scummy, and votes Andrew.
(436)-Believes Andrew to be scum.
(449)-Heatedly notes that he's had a few posts put towards thoughts on Pappums/Fitz.
(452)-Says we should vote who we want to vote unless we're under pressure, and won't be swayed.
(563)-Also wants explantion for Neil saying WIFOM to that one post.
(573)-Goes with my wagon.
(583)-Just because there's enough to lynch, doesn't mean its necessary nor that said player is the only one worth it.
Understands that Mike might not agree with his Andrew case, but would prefer he just reference it instead of asserting.
Thinks that Mike thinks that a bad scumtell means everyone should focus on lynching said person.
I had a wagon, that fell off, P.T. didn't think I'd have another one. Now, though, my wagon is better than any other.

Pappums Rat/Nachomamma:
(30)-RVS Idiotking
(59)-RVS me for not joining RVS
(71)-Questions if I've played as scum, implying I AM scum
(94)-Pulls this daycop guilty on me outta nowhere. Apparantly is hell-bent on me being scum, though I'm not.
(135)-And just as suddenly unvotes.
(137)-Says quoting a Pm is bad (though so is paraphrasing), tries to act innocent about scumbuddy.
Claims he has irrefutable proof of my scumminess, which is wrong. And doesn't think this would take pressure off, either
Also doesn't know that Neighbors choose their person.
(139)-Thinks Fitz is my buddy for wanting the day to end early, when he's really just going on YOUR claim. *rolls eyes*
Also thinks Jahudo is warning scumbuddies. *rolls again*
(144)-Didn't want a lynch because of what we could learn, and reads for him.
didn't like the call for a policy lynch on andrew by Fitz.
Doesn't think Xalxe's option post was necessary because there was no point to lynching himself (which isn't true)
Also sees where Jahudo was coming from, and wants to know what others think of my defense.
(176)-It WAS fake, just like I thought. He used it to try and generate discussion, and is pissed that it fell out later.
Thinks my standing improved over the time he had fakeclaimed.
(179)-revotes me.
(207)-Did this to scumhunt, apparantly. And says he wasn't detracting from other hunts.
Suspicious of fitz throwing out the word liar everwhere. And says I wasn't forced to claim.
Very disappointed that no one's looking into my words.
Also points out that he's not cleared yet.
(221)-Unnecessary comment to Jerbs, and basically tells Fitz that he's wrong.
(231)-Says Neil is distancing, and that his vote is weird
(254)-Says he took measures against QL.
Questions andrew for why he's saying he retracted becasue there's no non-sane cop.
Agains says the goal was to get reactions.
(271)-says Fitz ad-hom'd by calling him a liar (what), and now won't say anymore about his gambit.
(289)-Cooks up an unholy amount of WIFOM in one paragraph. Concludes by saying Fitz is anti-town for trying to end D1 early.
(331)-Says the "kill replacements" is null. Still thinks Fitz is scum.
(358)-basically shrugs off anything against him by Fitz because of walls or because he supposedly answered already.
(361)-Lashes out! (!!!!)
(399)-Continues to deride Fitz, saying his walls are just being rehashed and he's OMGUSing his suspects.
(405)-Apparantly thinks I'm not talking about Rat, when I am.
Was trying to make people question if scum would take his actions.
Also hasn't been active due to IRL stuff.
(426)-Isn't going to ass himself to look for questions towards him.
Stupidly asks Fitz what else he's voting rat for.
says that he never had a null/town tell on me.
(427)-Already explained the context for LaLiars, and that gambiting is null. Also notes that his case seems to be based solely on the gambit and his outburst.
(437)-Flips out (AGAIN) when I show why he should be lynched (even if it's Fitz's summary).
Again asks what's scummy outside the gambit.
says that people were alluding that he (Rat) thought he was cleared after Cecily said that, and won't leave if Fitz is lynched today.
OMGUS scumreads.
(440)-Says they're not OMGUS (though they are).
Calls Neil's blasting of Fitz and voting Rat is the "HoS buddy, vote town" fallacy....er, scumslip?
(456)-Notes Fitz doing the same thing he is.
Asks Neil about his "horrible defense", claims that Neil is acting like me right after the claim (<_<), and more ad-hom-ing me.
(461)-Rant, rant, rant, ad-hom, CAPS rant...
(464)-Pretty much throws it. Wah, wah.
(468)-hilarious batman comparison.
(484)-Replace out with Nachomamma
------------------------------------------------
(564)-Lays out his case against me.
(565)-Also says Cecily's my buddy. Wha?
(568)-Garauntees he and Fitz are town
(572)-Reply to me

Xalxe/pine:
(33)-RVS Idiotking
(56)-Comment-and-leave style
(60)-Failed at math
(68)-Andrew's question/answer to a pre-start thing from Xal was what Xal was doing. Idk, I'm not focusing on that.
-Didn't want an RVL (Random vote Lynch)
(104)-Very surpised at the claim.
(111)-After viewing the claim, he gave a couple options for us to go for.
(123)-Feels I might be too strung-up due to being pushed to l-1.
(126)-Top suspects: Me, rat, and Barnum for some defense (slight buddying?)
(143)-Questions Pappums unvote.
(145)-Thinks my defense was better than he thought.
Says the lynch is if you're liarscum.
(177)-After Pappums outs himself, Xal still thinks he's town (what?), but still feels iffy about me.
(191)-Wants Neil to argue about Pappums dropping the gambit now instead of later.
---------------------------------------
(314)-Instantly unvotes.
(316)-Votes pappums, the primary reasons mentioned is that Rat's actions shouldn't be discarded because of how scummy they are.
(325)-Says that Jerbs was right in replacing out.
(328)-Agrees with Fitz, and says a replacement for Jerbs would move the game along.
(332)-Says that Neil's disdain is stupid, and says Neil is VI.
(338)-Notes that a Rat scumflip clears me.
(340-1;3)-Says a townflip is irrelevant, and that Rat has been rather good at trying to get out of this mess he made. Also says that who did this would be irrelevant, too.
(364)-Says that while town are usually calm, the opposite is just as true. Then oddly unvotes and revotes Pappums.
(366)-His comments were irrelevant of Fitz's sarcasm, and that Fitz is 2nd on his scumlist.
(372)-Asks if anyone thinks rat is actually town.
(381;3)-Sarcastic and semi-sarcastic reply to Andrew's supsioun. The un/re was for emphasis
(396)-Thinks Cecily is #1 for D2.
(403)-Will put together a reply for Jahudo later becasue he forgot to string it in his posts.
(406)-Says gambiting at D4 isn't necessarily scummy, but is at D1.
(412)-Says there's a far better way to get reactions D1 than a gambit that could lynch someone who is very likely to be town.
(418)-Calls Andrew out on his shoddy reasoning.
(430)-Strongly disagrees with Neil's proposal, but if there's a good reason to add policy to someone's case, then it's fine.
(462)-Really wants to push a rat lynch, and questions if ANYONE thinks he's town anymore, though saying that those who think he's town are scumbuddies is pushing it.
Also notes how Pappums's gambit was the singl scummiest thing in the thread.
(465)-Notes the lack of participation in the thread, which is true. (myself included, but that's just because I'm certain of the PR lynch and I'm not deviating from it).
Also wonders what PR's reasons for all the insults are.
(476)-Top scum are PR---------Fitz---Cecily
Notes he was the first to give logical reasoning for scum to do PR's gambit.
Promises a case on Fitz.
Says Neil is obvtown
Says scum can and will imitate town-tells, noting that PR's outbursts are just over-the-top.
(487)-Worried that a replacement would wriggle out of PR's lynch, and wants him hammered ASAP.
(489)-Says the "starting conversation" reason is bullshit, and that Town has no reason for doing it at all.
(513)-Cecily moved to be the #1 D2 because of Fitz's case on her, but that's slacked off. He still agrees, but it's not like "this is so right! Imma vote her tomorrow!"
(544)-Disagrees with Bub's 543, but agrees on the non-scumbuddies.
(577)-Worried that Nacho might get out of the certain Rat-scumslot.
(580)-Is taking all that Nacho says with a grain of salt at the moment.
(604)-Notes that a neighborizer is actually a very bad fakeclaim--if scumbuddies confirm, they're lynched when I am.
(613)-Promises a case as to why I'm town.
(don't remember the number)-Later finds the fact that I'm willing to lynch myself since I'm the remaining wagon left and we're 1 day away from DL scummy...how?

[Voidedmafia]

I'm pretty positive this is right up to Pine's Hammer and such, and I don't have anything beyond that. I tried to leave out obvious fluff (And obviously never took any notes until everyone had confirmed).

[Pine]

So...what conclusions did you draw (at the time) from those notes?

[Voidedmafia]

Chk was just null. I mean, his arguments were good, but I objected to his read because I knew I was town. Pretty much, if it was on anyone else this game, he would be town.

Cecily was leaning scum near the end, and that read solidified throughout the game. Sucks that she was town in the end.

Always held Fitz as town.

IK was null, but I didn't like his play at all.

Jahudo was null, though I didn't like 141 because of the 3rd line about it. I suppose I could argue he was getting town after awhile.

Jinxx/Bub and Jerbs/Tars: Both were leaning scummy, and I think I actually said Tars was scum.

Mikemike:...REALLY not sure. I'd be safe saying he was null, but trying to think what I was thinking a couple months ago now, I'm not entirely sure.

Neil: I felt he was town, honestly. Wasn't liking his play at the end, which made him more scummy/null, but he was still town at my lynch.

P.T.: WAHHHH WHY WEREN'T YOU TOWN?! I HAD YOU PEGGED AS TOWN WHEN I WAS LYNCHED! WHYYYYYYY??!

Rat: obviously I thought he was scum, and didn't think Nacho alleviated it.

Xalxe/you: Xal was town to me, you were null.

[neil1113]

Neil: I felt he was town, honestly. Wasn't liking his play at the end, which made him more scummy/null, but he was still town at my lynch.

<3

[pappums rat]

Just got done reading how this game played out after I replaced out and found these:

btw anyone calling pappums scum here, need to re-read his play. or get used to gambits, sure theoretically it could come from scum but it was so awesome here and had such a pro town effect. good play P. Rat.

btw anyone calling pappums scum here, need to re-read his play. or get used to gambits, sure theoretically it could come from scum but it was so awesome here and had such a pro town effect. good play P. Rat.

Seconded.

Scummy award nomination for most pro-town gambit.

I was really diggin' PR's gambit. @fitz: Setael and Faraday are right. After PR came clean, it was you who made the big deal about PR lying, rather than looking around at other players' reactions and thinking hmmm, if this really was a gambit, how would town and scum react to voided being called guilty if he a) really was, or b) wasn't, and seeing who fit the profiles. I understand PR did lie, but in the heat of the moment I was feeling like town wasn't really taking advantage of the gambit there.

Actually, were I in PR's position there, I'd have considered not coming clean at all and just following through with lynching voided since his reaction to being called guilty was so bad.

Thanks for these comments guys. I never thought my gambit would blow up in my face so violently like that, and I was not prepared to deal with the fallout from it. I almost quit mafia because of this game, but I am glad I stuck it out and remained here. I have become a much more conservative scummer because of the reactions in this game.

[Faraday]

NO DON'T BE CONSERVATIVE. Awesome gambit is awesome. You can expect some people to react badly, fuck it, don't let it get to you.

[tarsonisocelot]

NO DON'T BE CONSERVATIVE. Awesome gambit is awesome. You can expect some people to react badly, fuck it, don't let it get to you.

This.

[Papa Zito]

fin.