Mini1147-Royal Mafia at the Round Table (Game Over!)

[Rhinox]

Rhinox post 38 I do this all the time no matter my alignment. How often do you see scum do this? What about players that are town?

Post 43 I get your reasoning on why it's scummy, I guess I just don't think about it in terms of covering my ass.
post 45
Funny enough when I do an RVS vote I don't roll a dice. I either pick a person who is a VI or someone I played with when I can't find a VI.
It's part seeing how they react to my comment and part just plain RVS with a purpose. I look at how they respond, if they respond, panic, non panic, casual, joking. It just gives me ideas that I put to the side and think about throughout the game.

I probably couldn't give you specific examples either way. Just in general, it sticks out to me as trying to make sure you don't seem scummy, which is a scum attitude moreso than a town attitude.

Regarding RVS, yeah I get all that just wondering specifically to this situation, If I'm juls, and you tell me you can read me based on early pressure and then vote me, if I'm scum I'm going to be thinking about that and changing the way I react to make sure you don't figure me out. So I'm just wondering if you really earnestly were trying to use your vote to get a read on juls. Did her reaction to your vote tell you anything about her alignment?

-----

Hey all, how much experience do you have?

Highly experienced.

Vote: Prosaurus

. Last to confirm, and already lurking. Scumbag in the bag.

Fixed.

Let me put this out there: Go to sleep. Get up. Go to school. Go to hockey practice. Walk home.
It takes a while
I can tell. This will be a looooooooong game for me.

Pretty sure Javert was just joking to make a RVS vote. Are you paranoid?

I think it was IGMEOU = I got my eye on u. Having trouble entering the conversation twisted? How do you feel about the interactions between ender/erathos? me/farside? rhinox/oso?

yeah, thought it was IGMEOU
just seemed strange since I read EGMEOU twice
nevermind though

as for oso I see nothing particularly odd as of yet. I thought that He justified his reason and gave a counter-argument to support it. However I do realise that it isn't the strongest of finds from Oso, especially since it's so early in the game. It's a null tell for Oso, ender and erathos in my opinion

it's nice to see players like Rhinox and yourself are alert and reading carefully though. That's always a good sign. Like I say, the sooner RVS end the better

Only real post I see (Contains more than fluff). Don't find it scummy. BTW, what's IGMEOU? Can't find it on the wiki.

Did you just skim? There were real posts before this one that contained more than fluff. Why single this one out to sort of randomly say you don't find it scummy? What don't you find scummy?

IGMEOU = I've got my eye on you. Just an expression of suspicion, not a wiki acronym like WIFOM, OMGUS, etc.

[farside22]

Farside: Why single out TS? Javert, Klazam, Saurus and to a lesser extent Juls haven't really said much either.

Javert - He had 3 post (1) was confirm/chatter - RVS - then follow up with french
All of which is not much to go on.

Klazam - confirm - random vote page one now v/la (IE: hasn't read the thread from what I see so how is he on the list?)

Saurus - no post. How is he on the list?

I'm not calling out lurkers. I'm talking about someone who is posting in thread and reading the game, but saying very little.

Why not ask about Prosaurus?

@Rhinox - She joked about it, that is a null tell. Willing to meet the vote head on and question it was a good sign. However there are a few things I haven't liked from her post there after. I touched on one the other I'm watching for now.

[Juls]

Rhinox post 38 I do this all the time no matter my alignment. How often do you see scum do this? What about players that are town?
...
juls post 48 Not a fan of following.
...
Next up. I don't like Jul's following of Rhinox in post 48.

I still think it is a good point he brought up. As town, I think you are more likely to do less analysis of what YOU are saying and MORE analysis of what someone else is saying. At the time I switched my vote, it was on Rhinox as a RV. I felt at that point its better to take my vote off someone who has a good point and put it on someone who did something that looked suspicious. Does it make Oso 100% scum? No, but its the best place to put my vote at this time. And I still feel it is. Look, I have played with Rhinox at least 2 times officially and even more in Marathon games. He has been scum and town. He is probably the one I have the best "feel" for.

Farside: Why single out TS? Javert, Klazam, Saurus and to a lesser extent Juls haven't really said much either.

How have I not been contributing? I have been one of the primary ones.

I'm saying "fair enough" because his post showed that my interpretation of his pregame comment was wrong.

So you are saying this wasn't JUST an Random Vote?

I'm still pretty comfortable with my Oso vote.

[Twistedspoon]

Newish, unsure, a bit directionless. Pretty much what I saw from him before. Your vote on him should wake him up though. Last game, votes and suspicions had a tendency to do that to him.

Newish? fair enough. I'm nearly 3 months though and I'm an SE too

woken up?
I've been awake from the start when I tried to get us scumhunting as soon as possible by taking the fast track out of RVS (by not voting the mod :s)

Don't find it scummy. BTW, what's IGMEOU? Can't find it on the wiki.

I've got my eye on you

It's on the list of abbreviations as IGMEOY

I'm not calling out lurkers. I'm talking about someone who is posting in thread and reading the game, but saying very little.

opinion question: which is worse, an active lurker or a lurker?

but srsly I can lurk if you want me to
/jk

Saurus - no post. How is he on the list?

Why not ask about Prosaurus?

I think he meant prosaus by saurus
but yeah, I'll ask on behalf of me=weird

Farside: Why single out TS? Javert, Klazam, Saurus and to a lesser extent Juls haven't really said much either.

why Juls?

and that's all I have to ask for now
more posting from Necessary evil and others please

[Prosaurus]

Hey all, how much experience do you have?

Highly experienced.

Vote: Prosaurus

. Last to confirm, and already lurking. Scumbag in the bag.

Fixed.

Let me put this out there: Go to sleep. Get up. Go to school. Go to hockey practice. Walk home.
It takes a while
I can tell. This will be a looooooooong game for me.

Pretty sure Javert was just joking to make a RVS vote. Are you paranoid?

No. That's my way of saying "There will be 18 ~ 21 hours each day where I won't be able to post". Unless of course it's the weekend.

I think it was IGMEOU = I got my eye on u. Having trouble entering the conversation twisted? How do you feel about the interactions between ender/erathos? me/farside? rhinox/oso?

yeah, thought it was IGMEOU
just seemed strange since I read EGMEOU twice
nevermind though

as for oso I see nothing particularly odd as of yet. I thought that He justified his reason and gave a counter-argument to support it. However I do realise that it isn't the strongest of finds from Oso, especially since it's so early in the game. It's a null tell for Oso, ender and erathos in my opinion

it's nice to see players like Rhinox and yourself are alert and reading carefully though. That's always a good sign. Like I say, the sooner RVS end the better

Only real post I see (Contains more than fluff). Don't find it scummy. BTW, what's IGMEOU? Can't find it on the wiki.

Did you just skim? There were real posts before this one that contained more than fluff. Why single this one out to sort of randomly say you don't find it scummy? What don't you find scummy?

IGMEOU = I've got my eye on you. Just an expression of suspicion, not a wiki acronym like WIFOM, OMGUS, etc.

I did pretty much skim. But that was of TS's posts I read, the rest were pretty much fluff, so I was wondering how he seemed so scummy to some people.

[Erratus Apathos]

I'm saying "fair enough" because his post showed that my interpretation of his pregame comment was wrong.

So you are saying this wasn't JUST an Random Vote?

Right.

[Me=Weird]

It doesn't deny that I'm serious, it confirms it in fact. I made that comment because Oso said my vote was "by definition" a joke/RVS vote, and I was baffled by him using that particular wording, especially when my vote wasn't actually a joke or RVS vote!

Huh, that seemed like you were saying it

was

a rvs post. I'll drop this one.
About "have no fear" vote, were you really thinking he wanted us to let our guard down, as opposed to just some catchy saying? Then, "fair enough" implies that you honestly believe he's going to save the town.

Or it could be town switching votes because his first case got disproven! What do you expect, me to stay on ender even after he debunked my argument?

How is reading too much into a joke post a case, and how is a response joke disproving it?

Not sure why I included Juls. Looking through her ISO now, I can't see why I did.
Farside, I thought you were just going against unopinionated people, not people who seemed to know what's going on, but not contributing. Saurus

is

prosaurus.

TS, SE means nothing but that you've been in a couple games, even if you did awful.

[Oso]

Busy day.

@Ender

...
It isn't, he was just trying to get us out of the "RVS stage" as soon as possible so we can do some proper scum-hunting.

This is Ender's response to Prosuarus's question:

In the RVS, this

[Erattus's vote of Ender]

is scummy how? I'm pretty new, please explain this.

Question. If you thought it was to get out of the RVS and get some real discussion going, why the vote? From your response to Prosaurus, I get the impression you thought what Erattus was doing was good.

[farside22]

opinion question: which is worse, an active lurker or a lurker?

Active lurking is worse. I found lurkers to be null when it comes to alignment. I can't say the same for active lurking.

I don't know how I missed the post by Prosaur.

[Erratus Apathos]

It doesn't deny that I'm serious, it confirms it in fact. I made that comment because Oso said my vote was "by definition" a joke/RVS vote, and I was baffled by him using that particular wording, especially when my vote wasn't actually a joke or RVS vote!

Huh, that seemed like you were saying it

was

a rvs post. I'll drop this one.
About "have no fear" vote, were you really thinking he wanted us to let our guard down, as opposed to just some catchy saying? Then, "fair enough" implies that you honestly believe he's going to save the town.

Yes that is how I originally interpreted that post. And no that's not at all what "fair enough" meant, it meant that I understood what he meant by "have no fear" and that I accepted my interpretation was wrong.

Or it could be town switching votes because his first case got disproven! What do you expect, me to stay on ender even after he debunked my argument?

How is reading too much into a joke post a case, and how is a response joke disproving it?

BECAUSE I THOUGHT HIS POST WAS AN ATTEMPT TO GET THE TOWN TO LET THE GUARD DOWN, AND HIS RESPONSE CLARIFIED THAT HE WAS ONLY BRAGGING. I'M TIRED OF EXPLAINING THIS.

[farside22]

TS: What is your view of Oso compared to the other game you two were in?

Juls: What did you think about Oso's response to Rhinox?

EA: what do you think about the Rhinox/Oso discussion or the Juls/me discussion? Why no comments in regards to it?

Prosaurus: How do you expect to find scum if your skimming the thread? Have you played mafia online before? Is this your first game on MS?

[Prosaurus]

Prosaurus: How do you expect to find scum if your skimming the thread? Have you played mafia online before? Is this your first game on MS?

No, not at all. I was just 3 pages behind, so I skimmed them. I'm not going to do that often.

[Prosaurus]

PS: Just did a proper read. But, due to my lack of experience/skill, I'm lacking reads on anyone.
About Oso, I don't see anything he did as scummy. Answering questions before they're asked is in no way scummy to me, it just saves posts really.

[neil1113]

Vote Count #1.2:
Day One

Oso

(3): Rhinox, Juls, Necessary Evil

Erratus Apathos

(3): Oso, Ender241, Me=Weird

Rhinox

(1): Maxous

Klazam

(1): Erratus Apathos

Maxous

(1): Twistedspoon

Prosaurus

(1): Javert

Twistedspoon

(1): farside22

Juls

(0):

Necessary Evil

(0):

ender241

(0):

Me=Weird

(0):

farside22

(0):

Javert

(0):

No Lynch

(0):

Not Voting

(2): Prosaurus, Klazam

V/LA

(1): Andrew till Sunday or more...

With

13

alive it takes

7

to lynch.
Deadline for Day One is 12:00am EST on 4/20/2011

[Juls]

Alright...lets see if I can entice scum to say something of note....Questions for all:

Errastus - Please explain in 30 words or

more

why you felt ender's silly RVS vote was serious and/or a scumslip.

ender - Give your opinion...on...well anything?

Javert - How do you feel about prosaurus now that he is no longer "lurking"?

Prosaurus - I see a lot of excuses. Pretend it's less than 24 hours before the end of D1. Who do you vote for and why?

farside - I like that you are asking questions, this is a good, proactive sign. However, I wonder, do you often mistake activity for scumminess? I ask because you seem to be targetting the most active people. Is this because they are providing you with more material to analyze or because you are getting scum vibes off them?

Klazam - A question to you may not make much sense after your 48hour V/LA. I am making a note to remind myself to ask you something when you get back.

Maxous - Do you think buddying is a successful Scum strategy? Why or why not?

Me=Weird - You said earlier: "@Juls 32, does a game not count if you've changed a lot since then? I play way different than my early games, but I would still count them." What information did you hope to gain from my answer? Did you learn anything from my actual answer?

Necessary Evil - Do you have any questions for anyone? You haven't posted much but you stated your opinion in the one post you did. Opinions are like....well you know the rest. I would like to see some actual scumhunting please.

Oso - Other than Errastus, whom do you see as scummy?

Rhinox - What's your take on Me=Weird? TwistedSpoon?

TwistedSpoon - Have you played scum on this site yet (obviously excluding any current games you may be in)? If so, could you provide a link?

----------
@farside - I haven't seen anything from Oso to add/take away scum points sense his original "pre-emptive" question. His response to Rhinox was null to me. The only thing I could maybe penalize him on is that he has been shown to do the same thing as scum. But I am not weighting that too heavily. I have some other hunches working right now but would like to also get answers to my questions to validate/nullify them.

[Erratus Apathos]

EA: what do you think about the Rhinox/Oso discussion or the Juls/me discussion? Why no comments in regards to it?

I don't find either of those discussions meaningful to be honest.

Errastus - Please explain in 30 words or

more

why you felt ender's silly RVS vote was serious and/or a scumslip.

No. I'm sick of fucking explaining my attack on Ender. If you don't like my previous explanations then too damn bad, I'm not doing it any more.

PS: Just did a proper read. But, due to my lack of experience/skill, I'm lacking reads on anyone.

Playing the newb card to defend not scumhunting is the scummiest thing I've seen this whole game.

UNVOTE: Klazam
VOTE: Prosaurus

[ender241]

Busy day.

@Ender

...
It isn't, he was just trying to get us out of the "RVS stage" as soon as possible so we can do some proper scum-hunting.

This is Ender's response to Prosuarus's question:

In the RVS, this

[Erattus's vote of Ender]

is scummy how? I'm pretty new, please explain this.

Question. If you thought it was to get out of the RVS and get some real discussion going, why the vote? From your response to Prosaurus, I get the impression you thought what Erattus was doing was good.

I realised the vote was more of an 'out-of-rvs' vote after i looked more into it. UNVOTE:

I dislike Prosaurus, i think he is using the newbie card as a way to get out of situations where he is going to be voted. VOTE: Prosaurus

[Twistedspoon]

TwistedSpoon - Have you played scum on this site yet (obviously excluding any current games you may be in)? If so, could you provide a link?

good question. Sadly I have not played as scum before in mafia.
My wiki page shows you my finished games if you want to read it

[Twistedspoon]

TS: What is your view of Oso compared to the other game you two were in?

in our last game Oso was town. He seemed town from day 1 and considered all eventualities and possibilities with many of his speculative posts and only when our town read on him began to falter, or when we ran out of viable players for the lynch did we end up lynching oso (we had a claimed watcher and a confirmed townie in myself, so oso became the lynch)

this is why it didn't surprise me that he included a counter-argument in his reasoning. Oso is just the player to counter the arguments of his critics before they state them I would guess. Of course it could be seen as scummy by some players, as Rhinox interpreted it as. But to me it's just reminiscent of town oso from our last game. As such, i have a town read on oso. But bear in mind it is a volatile read and is subject to change as we're only 4 pages in. The more pages we go through the more accurate our reads should get.

I hope that answers your question.

[Javert]

Unvote: Prosaurus, Vote: ender241

.

Javert - How do you feel about prosaurus now that he is no longer "lurking"?

No read on Prosaurus. In fact, I don't have a read on much of anyone. All of the questions in this game so far seem like attempts to squeeze blood from a turnip.

[Juls]

any reason for the vote switch Javert?

[Javert]

Try reading ender241's last post. What a lazy question.

[Juls]

Try reading ender241's last post. What a lazy question.

It's not a lazy question. You mention nothing of ender but you vote him. It's a legitimate question. So your problem with ender is that you disagree with his read on Prosaurus? What about that makes him scummy? Do you think everyone who disagrees with you is scum?

[Javert]

If I had wanted to explain my vote on ender241 in great detail, I would have done it in my post. Which is what makes your question lazy: if a player purposefully does not explain their vote immediately, chances are they are not going to explain it just because somebody pops in asking "why the vote change?" Anybody analyzing the game should understand the gist behind my vote.

And by the way, this:

Do you think everyone who disagrees with you is scum?

Is just a dumb question. And seeing as it has nothing to do with anything, I am unsure why you chose to tack it onto your post.

[Juls]

As for prosaurus playing the newb card. Without discussing his ongoing games, I will just say that it is not a surprise for him to play the newb card, nor do I find it scummy. This is Pro's first non-newbie game. While I don't plan to allow him to get by on that without scum-hunting I'm not going to assume he is auto-scum based on it. It can be intimidating playing with experienced players as a very raw new player.