Mafia MetaMafia ~ Game Over!

[Duplicity]

Stop thinking of it like double day and think of it like a Vig that requires town consent. How is that not protown? It's awesome because it checks back stupid ass Vigs while still giving the town extra kills. And it's definitely not a SCUM power.

This would be true if the town had good reason to want mothrax dead, as of right now I don't have much reason to want him dead over anyone else.

@hito - if you had to pick your top THREE players on this playerlist to policy lynch, who would they be?

But seriously, what town motivation is there in asking this question? It's just generating noise.

[hitogoroshi]

Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding you, but what do you mean, "burning political capital"? It's not as though Faraday played a clever gambit on quadz. From Faraday, a vote without explanation in response to a post is a complete null tell.

Political capital is basicially how much town will listen to you. You gain it by reputation, rhetoric, cases. You lose it by being scummy, flightly, uncertain.

It's a null

tell

for Faraday to vote without explanation, but it's clearly a loss in capital (e.g the more he does that the less you'll listen to him, boy who cried wolf). And all he gained from it was a chance to try to get a scum reaction from Quadz. I think Quadz reaction makes him look nullish, not scum, but I also think it's pretty townish of Faraday to be doing that kind of checking in the first place.

Stop thinking of it like double day and think of it like a Vig that requires town consent. How is that not protown? It's awesome because it checks back stupid ass Vigs while still giving the town extra kills. And it's definitely not a SCUM power.

Kills are good because they have a chance of hitting scum. Scum aiming the ability have a 0% chance of hitting scum. This does not seem like an especially difficult concept.

Mothrax is definitely in the bottom half of this player list, but only because this player list is absurdly stacked. I've played with him just in Moco, I

think

(if I've played with him elsewhere I'm not recalling it.) He started off poorly but picked up his game near the end.

Have you ever read a game where NobodySpecial is town? This is important.

[AlmasterGM]

This would be true if the town had good reason to want mothrax dead, as of right now I don't have much reason to want him dead over anyone else.

If you had a one-shot N0 Vig, would you use it?

But seriously, what town motivation is there in asking this question? It's just generating noise.

I'm asking him to rank people who he would policy lynch (before mothrax). Given that we are having a discussion about policy lynching, how is that noise? It seems pretty on-topic to me.

Kills are good because they have a chance of hitting scum. Scum aiming the ability have a 0% chance of hitting scum. This does not seem like an especially difficult concept.

This simply presumes I am scum and does not actually prove why this would ever actually be a scum ability. It's an extra kill. Scum don't get this.

Have you ever read a game where NobodySpecial is town? This is important.

Not in reachable memory, actually. All the games I remember he was obvscum. Still, though, this line of Mothrax v Nobody Special irrelevant - it's likes saying, "I don't believe your cop claim because I would have investigated THIS person instead of THAT person!" Unless you think mothrax is a

BAD

vig shot and that you would rather let him live than kill him for free, then it's just a matter of preference. And it's my ability and I happen to prefer mothrax over Nobody Special.

[ooba]

We should lynch people because they're scummy - not because its free.

I would have rather you brought this discussion up towards the end of the day - aka after people had reads on mothrax. Anyway discussing this now is a waste of time and we can re-evaluate the lynch option close to the end of day.

For what its worth, I can see this as a power for both scum/town. But you go into my town books since reasoning/arguing seems genuine enough.

[Nicki Minaj]

This is a silly power to give to scum; it's not like scum particularly benefit from double day.

See: Mafia at the 11th Hour, modded by Vi. The scum had pro-town abilities and the town had pro-survival abilities.

Mina and I have discussed the AGM/mothrax thing, and we both think that although AGM's ability is slightly suspicious, his posts look town.
Neither of us are particularly interested in lynching mothrax, though, and I think that mothrax's reaction is slightly town. Getting 12 votes on mothrax will take a few days, and we likely won't get any more than 12-14 days for this game day. The fact that AGM is trying this policy lynch pretty much confirms that he has the ability, and that's enough for me for now.

[Nicki Minaj]

I'm too tired to finish my response to Plum, so before I go to bed, I'll just summarize my inchoate reads.

hitogoroshi, you've seen Faraday as scum before, right? Do you think he casts unexplained votes more often as town? See, from some players, I'd understand your POV that it might draw attention to them, but this is a complete null tell with Faraday.

I don't like that my reasons for my hito vote have changed since I cast it, but I'm still uneasy with him. I find hito sometimes has odd theories as town, but I still REALLY dislike his back-and-forth with AGM trying to paint him as scummy for a role decision. I agree that mothrax wasn't the number one choice, but the bickering in this topic has proven that AGM and mothrax have bad blood together. It's not as though NS is SOOOOOOO much better that anyone who DIDN'T choose him is obvNSbuddy.

Duplicity's two posts felt like wishy-washy passionless scum filler. Also, boo for parroting hito on his AGM point. Might move our vote there, although it feels a bit easy.

Okay with the quadz wagon, but I might be biased because he, Seraphim and Plum are all scum for voting for me. People piled on him quickly, so I'll look elsewhere for now.

Nikanor already discussed our read of AGM. And I'm certain that AGM didn't make up the idea of his role, at least. Just to nitpick: I'm considering a mothrax lynch unless I get a stronger town read on him. From my PoV, AGM vigged mothrax on N0, and we have the choice of stopping or allowing the kill.

My other head thinks Seraphim is scum, but I'm more null on him. I didn't get what Seraphim was driving at re: domains, so I missed why everyone is convinced he's obvtown. Will be very interested to see his posts tomorrow.

Meh, I'm sure there's someone I'm forgetting, but this is long enough.

However, NM's recent post solidifies my position on them. Vote stays for now.

Ugh, I hate it when people go, "Yeah, X's recent post totally solidifies my confirmation bias" without explaining why

particularly when X is me

.

Your position on us was that we were asking an obvious question for town cred. That was a fair enough attack early in the game (although easy, since I was already drawing heat). But the post you said solidified your read was basically just me questioning Faraday. Um...

what

?

Hey, singersigner, when you get back here, I'd be interested in hearing

your

read on quadz. You know why I'm asking this.

Although I guess I don't see Mina-scum asking the question about Evil Aligned players. But then your refusing to answer my question is scummy. I dunno.

This is also to Plum, but are you saying you expected a serious answer to that question? I'm just curious, how do you think scum would react to that question, and how would town react?

If it makes you happy,

no

. I'm not scum. I feel ridiculous for even posting that.

Had something for Equinox here, but she's looking very town now, so I'll drop her off the Players to Aggressively Spam With Questions List. Won't list my other town reads.

-Mina

[Faraday]

'Slightly townish'? Pm'ing someone in a rage is fucking totes townie. Don't be stupid.

[Faraday]

This is also to Plum, but are you saying you expected a serious answer to that question? I'm just curious, how do you think scum would react to that question, and how would town react?

People even when scum don't really like lying, I certainly don't think

you

do, so when someone you know asks you a question like that I do think it's scummy that you don't answer it straightout. And then even the second time you still didn't really answer it, I was sort of hoping my 'fascinating' comment would provoke some sort of...reaction from you but it didn't work, and there's still the whole fact you opened the way you did the the other stuff being a mixed bag. Why didn't you just straight up answer the question?

Oh and is Quadz scum?

[singersigner]

/Drunk posting.

Mina.

Darling.

I HEAR YOU LOUD AND CLEAR I WILL READ WHEN NOT DRUNK AND I WILL TELL YOU WHAT I THINK OF THE LITTLE FUCKER. YOU KNOW WHY I KNOW WHY AND WE WILL KNOW WHY TOGETHER.

/surprisingly able to edit mispelligns

[singersigner]

/surprisingly able to edit mispelligns

FUCK MY LIFE.

[Faraday]

Too early in the morning~

Okay with the quadz wagon, but I might be biased because he, Seraphim and Plum are all scum for voting for me. People piled on him quickly, so I'll look elsewhere for now.

MAN UP AND VOTE HIM.

[VasudeVa]

Well this is easy.

Vote: mothrax

I'll probably be voting for quadz after we're done with mothrax.
hito seems Town. Town hito is a wall posting baddy. Never seen a scum hito before so YMMV.

[Duplicity]

If you had a one-shot N0 Vig, would you use it?

Nah. More chance of hitting town than scum. Additionally grudging people is stupid and I wouldn't vig them even if I had a desire to.

But seriously, what town motivation is there in asking this question? It's just generating noise.

I'm asking him to rank people who he would policy lynch (before mothrax). Given that we are having a discussion about policy lynching, how is that noise? It seems pretty on-topic to me.[/quote]
Yeah, but why discuss policy lynching at all? What do you hope to gain from discussing it? seems to me like a pointless sidetrack that yields nothing.

Duplicity's two posts felt like wishy-washy passionless scum filler. Also, boo for parroting hito on his AGM point. Might move our vote there, although it feels a bit easy.

Nah, I just don't have many reads right now is all. You come off as wishy-washy a few times within the same post. I don't think it's anything out of the ordinary for early day 1. But I felt hito's thinking w/r/t AGM's claim mirrored my own and seemed like pro-town logic. Am I not supposed to say when I agree with someone?

wait nvm i put my vote in the wrong place i see now it should be

unvote
vote: VasudeVa

[Parama]

Is this a serious vote?

unvote vote quadz

Faraday: Town
quadz: Scum

unvote, vote: quadz

I am a High Priest of Xylthixlm. One of my abilities is to choose a player to

policy lynch

during the pregame.
...
This is a proveable power that would be really dumb to give scum

Uh... it wouldn't be dumb to give to scum. Double day just means another chance for scum to push a mislynch, really.

Vote: mothrax

I'll probably be voting for quadz after we're done with mothrax.

Crap, VV's scum. quadz is probably a buddy - this guy'll find some way to sneak out of voting quadz next, I'm sure of it.

unvote, vote: VV

I'll probably be voting for quadz after we're done with

mothrax

VasudeVa.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[VP Baltar]

Ok, read up. First I need to tell everyone that I probably wont' be posting much for the rest of the week due to RL, and I'm going to be

V/LA for all of this weekend without any access whatsoever

Sorry to drop that right as the game started, but what can you do.


Ok, without making a wall post, here are my thoughts:

Niki Minaj has some pretty terrible posts in there, such as asking if Katsuki is serious, dodging the alignment question and asking sottyrulez what their full role name is (as if they would somehow get this incorrect). It's pretty empty stuff at points and I do hate that coming from Mina. I did have a couple points from them I really agreed with however (calling hito's posting re:AGM nipicking and asking singer's opinion of quadz, both of which I wanted to say in this post until they said it first). I'm a bit torn on Niki's alignment as a result.

The main thing that bugs me about quadz is how pensive he is. He really seems to be slow at loosening up here...though I admittedly have no experience with him. Does he always play defensively like this when he's town?

Sottyrulez claiming miller is blah to me. Decent chance they are town, but they really need to be after the scum and get NKed for me to feel completely safe with that claim.

@DDD - what do you think is the optimal town strategy with the domains? Is there any advantage to mass claiming domains as someone (Seraphim?) suggested? Are we better randomly worshiping and casting? Same question goes to anyone that played in POWERFUL WIZARDS mafia...or whatever it's called.

I think I'm going to reserve the rest of my reads for the moment. I do think Gamma is town, so there's a sneak preview. Most of my reads aren't very strong yet and I'd like some more reading before I get too wild with accusations.

Vote: quadz08

p.edit - Oh, the whole double day thing slipped my mind. I don't really have a problem with AGM suggesting it or picking mothrax. I think hito is going way overboard with his reaction to that and I dont' like it at all. As of right now, we should let the day play out, but I'm certainly not taking it off the table as a possibility. If I start to find mothrax scummy, then all other things being equal he's getting my vote. I dont' really buy all the people going "policy lynch = ZOMG BAD"

@hito - was it you earlier implying that we only got the double day on a mislynch? Reading AGM's post, I don't get that sense at all. Why did you say that? (unless I misread/misattributed something)

[Seraphim]

I didn't advocate mass-claiming domains but that is most certainly a possibility at this juncture. I need to read back on the original POWERFUL WIZARD Mafia. I also need to read on what's happened on these last few pages to gain some perspective. These are some original thoughts from my first read-through.

I only singled out Katsuki's comment because I didn't see anything else worth poking at.

Then don't poke at anything.

I'm not saying your question isn't worth anything. It isn't an attempt to discredit, I was merely saying in a toungue-in-cheek way that the question in no way indicates your alignment(allegience, or whatever, town or MAFIA). This is guilty until proven innocent boyo(or girlo).

So why exactly are you trying to discredit me with this pronoun shit?

Also, believe it or not, I'd be against a mass alignment claim at this juncture. I just decided to ask evil-aligned town players to claim for several different reasons.

Fair enough.

Faraday is prob-town. Equinox is prob-town. quadz is scum.

I haven't decided whether or not Nicki is scum, but quadz is almost definite scum, VV might be his buddy. I don't think Nicki is scum with quadz though.

I'm going to probably reread all this later.

[Seraphim]

Forgot part of my post.

As far as AGM goes, mothrax is town, I think, if AGM is telling the truth about the rage PM. I also get the unsettling feeling that it's some sort of gambit.

Unvote
Vote: quadz

[Faraday]

ALL Of the lights.also vv just fucking claimed my phone so bad scum aint in prediction

[sottyrulez]

Paraphrased, our flavor with being a miller is that Troll speak effects the reading of our Allegiance.

I was really feeling Equi town, but her coming out and saying double day is pointless unless Morthax is scum is a real stretch.

Hito really did over react to Almaster's lynch choice. I know he doesn't like how NS plays, but trying to paint Almaster as scum because he has a different policy lynch is really WTF. I agree that it links Hito+morthax much more than GM+NS.

I have a slight town read on Niki. I know Mina jumps all over the place as town and I'm not seeing scumMina asking about alignments like that. Plum's post on them makes me uneasy. I need to see that play out some more.

quadz “is this a serious vote” was horribad. I find myself somewhat agreeing with Parama about VV/quadz

Vote stays until I can chat with my other head.

~Sotty

[sottyrulez]

also vv just fucking claimed my phone so bad scum aint in prediction

?

[Faraday]

Wbit what the fuck vp?

[VP Baltar]

Wbit what the fuck vp?

Yeah, I know right.

[Gammagooey]

I'm awake and most people have posted so let's do this.

my first post breadcrumb was that I'm a miller - that's the role I had in sykedoc's marathon game during the server transfer with a retired cop, nurse, + me against 2 mafia in a 7 player setup (it was called an outsider instead of a miller though). The server transfer games aren't up still but VP Baltar was definitely in the game and I think Nikanor and maybe VV were in it too. It's pretty much exactly like it is in the sample PM except it isn't called

WHAT IS A MAN

. I'm also Lawful Evil. (and before faraday/someone else asks my allegiance is town.)
Before everyone posted I thought this might be like SpyreX's first Star Control game (http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=12390), pretty much everyone with at least one ability and a decent portion (4+ players) of the game being millers so that cop abilties are significantly weakened, but that doesn't seem to be the case with only me and sotty claiming miller.

@NikiMina's stuff- I'm expecting a majority of the scum to be evil and a LARGE majority of the town to be not-evil, with a few exceptions on both sides. Unless the scum is actually tigers, in which case I guess they'd be something like 50/50 neutral/evil with one good.

Also since sotty's ninjaing me I don't have miller flavor. Just the ability name.

I'm getting uber-ninjaed so this first actual content next post.

[Faraday]

Huh vuvv is scum. What's confusing. I was mad as my phone doesn't have scum as a word

[VP Baltar]

I dont' really recall that game Gamma, but I have a terrible memory for marathon's and I'll take your word for it. Also, we still have some people that haven't really posted yet, so let's see what shakes out with the miller business.