I'm going to make a case based off of Name User's bussing.
In post 231, Name User wrote:Going with my gut, declan is looking scummy.
I'm wondering why we don't have a wagon on him.
And I'm pretty sure there is no declan-om team.
But anyway,
I don't like the people on the wagon, but
VOTE: Om for now.
Matt is being pretty useless, but isn't hurting town too much, plus it's still pretty early, so let's not hammer him. (Like I said, I doubt he's scum, anyway.)
Here Name User begins his bus on Declan.
So he vote's Om, then openly admits that he will bus his partner (or lynch a townie)
In post 563, Name User wrote:
Fitz seems to be town, because I agree with most of his reasoning. NovaDragon is just unlucky town.
Somebody convince me that Declan is scum.
He want's to bus, so he's trying to get someone else to make a good argument... Also, notice the mention that I am "unlucky town".
"If I'm hider"... which he isn't, and "behind Declan"... because why not talk the real hider into hiding behind NU's scum-partner to "find" scum, take care of hider, and still appear town.
In post 697, Name User wrote:In post 561, Name User wrote:Oh, and by the way Om, I didn't really suspect you by the end of day 1, I just never changed my vote.
You said this looked town. Why?
In post 563, Name User wrote:NovaDragon is just unlucky town.
What events or statements constituted this town read at the time you declared it?
Hmm, not a town read. "Unlucky null" would have been a better word-choice. I meant that I felt the wagon on Nova was unjustified, there was nothing scummy about him in my opinion.
Reads list:
Om: I'd like to think is town, but continued, fruitless bickering with Aether is bothering me.
Nova: Nothing scummy.
AngryPidgeon: Angry! Towny town-asset.
Declan giggs: Scum.
Distrubed One: Lurky scum.
Aether: Most anti-town player in game. Won't be playing any games with this guy in the near future.
havingfitz: Walls of text and a slight smartass, but probtown.
Last survivor: Nothing scummy.
Venmar: Puzzling and lurky, making him scummy.
So, Giggs is scum, and there's scum in Venmar, Aether, Disturbed One. I'm still contemplating on Om.
Several things here... First, despite his L-2 vote on Om, he claims to "not really suspect him", all the while, still having mentioned that he is good with a bus on giggs. Second, NOW he is calling me "unlucky null". So he was calling me town at first, and then flipped to call me null when he didn't want to make me look
too
town. Also, here's the strong bus... the strongest on Declan, and a second bus on his other partner. Notice he also has his fail-safe read on Venmar (probably hoping for a lynch on him later).
In post 698, Name User wrote:Declan says: I played along with the everybody say their hider target thing, but it was a horribly scumtacular idea in truth and NOT the best strategy for the town to benefit from the hider role (not that we had time for a better strategy with the rush to lynch Dragon). AP also tried to open the door to me to "claim hider" (post 524) then lynch me when the real hider counterclaims. Scummy.
AP ask: Declan, why would that plan work for me?
1. Why would you be so dumb as to fake claim hider for any reason ever? Why would I think I could get you to fake claim hider?
2. Geting you lynched for fake claiming (AND THEREFORE BEING SCUM SINCE THAT IS THE ONLY FEASIBLE TIME YOU WOULD DO THAT) is scummy how? Even if I were retarded enough to think I could get you to fakeclaim as town?
Best I've seen so far, and that's why
VOTE: Giggs
He got his bus vote finally.
In post 701, Name User wrote:Okay, I'd like to see him post something good, actually.
UNVOTE: Declan_Giggs
VOTE: Disturbed One
And immediately removed because it was time to bus his other partner or risk losing townie points.
In post 877, Name User wrote: In post 698, Name User wrote:Declan says: I played along with the everybody say their hider target thing, but it was a horribly scumtacular idea in truth and NOT the best strategy for the town to benefit from the hider role (not that we had time for a better strategy with the rush to lynch Dragon). AP also tried to open the door to me to "claim hider" (post 524) then lynch me when the real hider counterclaims. Scummy.
AP ask: Declan, why would that plan work for me?
1. Why would you be so dumb as to fake claim hider for any reason ever? Why would I think I could get you to fake claim hider?
2. Geting you lynched for fake claiming (AND THEREFORE BEING SCUM SINCE THAT IS THE ONLY FEASIBLE TIME YOU WOULD DO THAT) is scummy how? Even if I were retarded enough to think I could get you to fakeclaim as town?
Best I've seen so far, and that's why
VOTE: Giggs
Why has nobody responded to this?
Declan's sliding out of scum territory, but you can't just disregard this.
Despite his vote on Disturbed, he still REALLY wants to lynch Declan. I think he is actually trying to save Disturbed at this point, which is understandable until he realizes that it is fruitless... and then he does this...
In post 878, Name User wrote: In post 726, Declan_giggs wrote:Aether seems to be counting on his idiocy protecting him since a mislynch today leads to LYLO D3. We're lynching him at deadline if no better case emerges. I'm in, the deliberate WIFOM actually removes some of my doubt about the purpose of it for me.
In post 731, Disturbed_One wrote:Been re-reading through the thread and I've decided that Aether is obvious town. Declan trying to push through a mislynch on an obvious townie and setting up an out for when he flips town at the same time is... exactly what I would expect of scum to do.
I can see Aether being town, but obvious town? He's playing the exact same thing as last time, and Declan makes an excellent point, what the hell?
... Back-pedaling! He realizes that he needs to do some back-pedaling so that he doesn't lose both partners.
In post 879, Name User wrote:Disregarding page 32 except
In post 798, Declan_giggs wrote:
Here's where I see where we are: regardless of individual people's individual reads, which are wildly different in many cases, I can divide the players up into a few categories which make it easy for me to think about them strategically.
Lurkers/noncontributors: Name User, Venmar, LastSurvivor. To varying degrees these three players don't have much to say very often at all. This is more an observation about their FREQUENCY of appearing in the thread and less a value judgement on their posts that they have made. In my experience, this style of play is typical of a disinterested vanilla townie or a scaredyscum, who is afraid of slipping up if they say/participate too much. Given that there are 9 players (plus me) and 3 scum, and 3 players in this sub group, it is likely there is ONE SCUM in this lurkpool. Order of my vibe: scummiest Venmar, name user, LastSurvivor most likely town
Completely agree.
Dumbasses: OmoftheNom and Aether. If we weren't in crunch time already due to sad developments we can't take back, I'd be delighted to policy lynch either of these two, preferably Aether. But there is too much WIFOM here to make any call on these two. The good news for the town's win condition is they will just keep slapping each other and mostly stay out of the way. These two will probably get re-categorized for Day 3.
Except now Om is confirmed town.
Tryhards: This is not an insult (although I used it that way at AP earlier when he was just all about lynching a name any name). Fitz and AP. Both are trying to build cases, both have points that sway me, and both have points and occassional bursts of activity that I don't feel very good about. Each has established connections that especially in the case of AP I have talked about in previous posts. Either COULD be scum, my game-long suspicion has been on AP, and I still feel Fitz is more likely to be town, except under one condition I will discuss below. AP has stepped up his explanations for his FoSs, which isn't a scumtell, he clearly just realized that his original style was losing traction, so either way he had to up his game.
But Fitz's wall-posting verbosity is anti-town.
Lynchable, likely scum: Disturbed and Nova Dragon. Both of these players have managed to give a general feeling of scumminess to most of us at most points in the game. Mitigating Nova's scumminess for some people is how he reacted during pseudo-twilight, when his posts were pretty resigned in nature. This only slightly changes the fact that we intended to lynch him, and was saved by a technicality. We benefit from a ND lynch in that if he does flip town, Fitz is practically 100% cleared; why would scum have brought up the voting technicality if there was s successful town lynch? If ND were to flip scum, Fitz is quite damned although not as conclusively as he is cleared by a ND town flip.
Okay, Fitz is town anti-town, because I doubt Nova is scum.
We need to narrow our focus to these two players in my opinion (unless there is a STRONG appetite for an Aether policy lynch/roll of the dice? Didn't think so....) Let's disucss whether the gain from lynching Nova pays off, and whether a Nova scumflip means the hider should hide behind Fitz. If we cannot come to a consensus on a solid benefit from lynching NovaDragon, we should each post a read with a reason on Disturbed. Of course a few people will sheep a wagon on Disturbed, which is at their own peril. My own feeling is both could well be scum (together) and we aren't really going wrong lynching either.
So really just Nova for me.
An in all a very good post Declan.
More back-pedaling! Also, I think he's warming up to me for several possible reasons... He thought that I may eventually be mislynched to give him town-cred, I may help him lynch town (like Venmar -- or now Aether), and/or had plans for me for end-game .
In post 932, Name User wrote:
In post 920, NovaDragon wrote:Ven is still too hard to tell. While he has mostly voted townies (Om, AP, Director, Me... Especially me), 'unknowingly' dropped the hammer on me, and has been spewing some pretty lame stuff lately... His style and reasoning have actually seemed town oriented. I have a lean toward scum, but it isn't very strong, say 60-40.
Town oriented? How?
DECLAN ANSWER MY QUESTION PLEASE
Then, he was surprised that I backed away from my heavy-lean on Venmar, who was another one of his "scum" reads.
In post 946, Name User wrote:I'm not sure what to say about Lastsurvivor's question to me, other than I thought it was rhetorical.
In post 934, AngryPidgeon wrote:NU, were you not calling Mattp and the other unbearables by
1. Mentioning only them in your opening post
2. Voting one of them with no other reason provided
Why did you feel the need to respond to me pointing it out?
Read on last survivor and giggs?
Because you were putting words in my mouth. Yes I said they were unbearable, but this was basically an RV, iirc the first 4 pages were full of useless crap by the time I got here.
Last Survivor: Null. Haven't really been paying much attention to him. (By the way, LS, I thought your avatar was a chair until I looked closely at it.
)
Giggs: Town. It's a weak read, because I did think he was scum for a significant amount of time, he's not in any way cleared, but that's my opinion at this moment.
Back-pedaling without trying to be too obvious about it.
In post 1021, Name User wrote:That was real short-like.
Alright. I'm cringing at the fact I missed the entire day.
I'm doubting Giggs will flip town, so no need to worry about that.
And we're lynching Aether tomorrow.
AP, why'd you decide to hide behind LS? I'm having trouble understanding that.
NU lurked, Declan became an ultra idiot... His only saving grace is that he knew where to kill, and an Aether lynch looked good.
That's my case.
My only regret is that we didn't allow Aether to voice his opinion.
And now it is your turn, master lurker.
