Open 59 - Daytalk 12! (Game Over) before 545

[kabenon007]

I'm all for it.

[Oman]

Firstly, I'll be asking Thesp.

Secondly, I'm going to ask people to PM me their feelings on this, as this shifts the balance to the town a bit.

Thirdly, I do agree with the change personally, as the daytalk mechanic favours the scum a bit more than the town, and the numbers are wrong for a mountainous.

Fourthly, This is the ONLY change I will be making. There will be no RB, Doc, vig, Day-vig, masons, trackers, watchers, SKs, FBI, CIA, or ABC included.

[Oman]

Thesp just PMed me back, and the change will not occur.

He acknowledged the overpowering of Scum, but basically said the town'll have to press on.

I appologise to all players, but promise that the mechanics will be tinkered with later, when we are able to look at this game and decide what needs to change.

[Adel]

that is a bunch of crap.

unvote, vote:Thesp

and

FoS: Oman

for going along with it.

I understand your position, please understand mine, and also Thesp's - Mod

[Oman]

Vollkan replaces Cicero effective immediatly

[JDodge]

that is a bunch of crap.

unvote, vote:Thesp

and

FoS: Oman

for going along with it.

I understand your position, please understand mine, and also Thesp's - Mod

is it that much fairer to change the rules and dynamics of the game mid-stream?

[Adel]

fair? I'm more worried about []interesting[/i], and playing in a game that isn't

stalled

.

Cicero was the only player I'd exchanged private communication with so far in this game, so not very much seems to be happening from what I can tell.



Having a player who is a cop would make he setup far more dnamic and interesting, and I assumed the scum players would go along with it for that reason-- it wouldn't shift the balance too much anyhow.

Were you the one that cried to Thesp?

[JDodge]

fair? I'm more worried about []interesting[/i], and playing in a game that isn't

stalled

.

Cicero was the only player I'd exchanged private communication with so far in this game, so not very much seems to be happening from what I can tell.



Having a player who is a cop would make he setup far more dnamic and interesting, and I assumed the scum players would go along with it for that reason-- it wouldn't shift the balance too much anyhow.

Were you the one that cried to Thesp?

Why do you assume that someone demanded that the setup not be changed (if that is what you're insinuating)? Would you change the setup of one of your games midway through? Would you tell someone you were running a certain setup and then run a different one instead under the guise of making it "interesting"?

To be entirely honest, I would

not

have signed up for this game if I had the knowledge of there being a cop and a GF as I utterly

despise

cops without the proper checks and balances - so while I did not complain about the proposed change, I would have been

incredibly

disgruntled about it.

[xyzzy]

Sorry I haven't been daytalking much; I'm not in Scumchat as often now, so I've not been remembering to talk to people.

Adel, how useful do you think you can be in this game when you've only spoken to cicero? Even if you're not talking to everyone, talking to a few people often will give you a much bigger picture on who's scum.

If the game is stalled, then unstall it. You've plenty of ways to do that. PM me or something. Don't just assume that everyone's as lazy as you and pretend that there isn't a problem. I don't think you're incredibly scummy right now, but you're certainly not protown, and I'm willing to lynch someone for that - you provide us no info now, so we have no way to do anything about you in endgame.

[Adel]

Is there a significant amount of communication occurring privately? Who is talking to whom? Any leads yet?

[kabenon007]

I'm open to any communications... no one has yet... I am friendless...

[Primate]

No-ones contacted me outside the thread, which is particularly annoying as I signed up to this game with the hope that I wouldn't have to post in the thread.

And I only just realized that the game isn't nightless, heh.

[vollkan]

Posted as I read the thread

For those that haven't seen me replace before, I like to open up by posting a summary of what I read, and any thoughts/opinions I have on things as I read. A lot of this, therefore, will be straight-out note-taking of "X does Y", with analysis where analysis is due.

Page 1

Game opens on a serious note with ST voting JD because JD got annoyed when Oman forced JD's role upon JD - pointing to JD being scum. JD rebuts it by saying that his anger was over the fact that "if he were scum" it would have made him play worse. Cicero moves for a policy lynch, which is met with criticism from JD and some sympathy from Primate. I see this is as more of a meta issue than anything related to the actual game here, since there seems a real split of opinion on the matter of reading role PMs.

JD votes Cicero because Cicero wrongly used Primate to support his argument, instead of ST. Cicero says it was a mistake and that mistake=/=scum, and JD says it was Cicero not paying attention (assumes that not paying full attention=scum). I don't like the tricky semantics which JD is using here. See, when Cicero says it is a "mistake" that obviously means that he just muddled up who had said what (and, obviously, he was not paying perfect attention). JD, however, emphasises the lack of perfect attention as meriting a vote, presumably (going from seeing similar arguments in the past) on the basis that "scum don't care" (though experience also suggests that scum are actually more likely to pay close attention). To make what I am saying a bit clearer, let me crudely simplify their respective positions:
Cicero - "I made a mistake. I wasn't paying close enough attention."
JD - "You weren't paying close enough attention and that is scummy."

I disagree with JD here because his argument assumes from the outset that town are not going to lapse in their attention when, if anything, the converse is probably the case.

DS comes in with a weird vote for Cicero because Cicero supports policy lynches and is "gay".

Page 2

Some random votes and banter. ST wonders why zz stepped in for JD to say that JD's comments on "people who should never be allowed to live till the end game" were sarcastic. ZZ responds by saying that he will step in whenever someone wrongly (in his view) fingers something as proscum. I don't follow the reasoning behind ST's vote for ZZ. ST says that ZZ was making sure he misinterpreted what was said and in what order. I can see the misinterpretation over the word "significant" but the matter of order doesn't seem to emerge clearly when I read over this.

Page 3

ZZ says he doesn't suspect ST, but thinks ST is misinterpreting ZZ. It's unclear what he refers to here. Incognito raises a good point about ZZ assuming that town talking to scum will only result in scum slipping up, ignoring the possibility of scum fooling town. Discussion about the set-up lacking power roles, and Cicero thinks it favours scum.

Page 4

Some annoyance towards Adel for her refusal to use IM (I have AIM and MSN. I am very often on msn, but I will never

ever

appear online; you can still talk to me if need be though. I'll also make an effort to be on AIM a bit more often than usual). Adel makes a weird request for a town cop and scum GF.

[kabenon007]

Wow, vollkan, long time no see! Still haven't changed from my first game, have you? Still making as long of posts as ever.

[vollkan]

Wow, vollkan, long time no see! Still haven't changed from my first game, have you? Still making as long of posts as ever.

That post wasn't long...

[Oman]

Considering very little daytalking is occuring, and very little posting is occuring, next time it dies down (after this Vollkan-Entry Spike), I'll be posting a retractable deadline*

*A pickup in posting will remove the deadline

[kabenon007]

So okay, vollkan, you posted your summary, now what do you make of all this? Any leads from daytalking? Is anyone daytalking? Cuz if they aren't, people might as well post here.

[Incognito]

Welcome, vollkan.

With regard to daytalking, I personally haven't been daytalking either. I thought that all or most of the Day 1 stuff should happen in the thread and then maybe as days progress, the daytalking mechanism might be more useful as we get a feel for each other more. It's hard to begin daytalking though when you don't know who to semi-trust and when your suspicions are minimal.

Oman-mod, according to Disciple Slayer's sig, it looks like we need a replacement for him.

Thanks, I missed that. - Mod

[vollkan]

So okay, vollkan, you posted your summary, now what do you make of all this? Any leads from daytalking? Is anyone daytalking? Cuz if they aren't, people might as well post here.

The most interesting pages are, strangely enough, 1 and 2. My views on the page 1 issues are stated above, but I don't think it is anything other than inconclusive. As for page 2, there is some scumhunting going on there, but again the field is still very much wide open.

Basically, I don't believe that any obvious suspects have emerged at this stage of things. I disagree with JD on page 1, but that doesn't mean too much at all.

As far as the daytalking and activity side of things is concerned, I think I understand the root of the problems which you seem to be having. If only a few people are daytalking (specifically, the regular scumchatters) then the daytalking side of this game is incomplete and, thus, won't amount to much. I think that the focus of activity should be on the thread itself, with the external daytalking secondary to that.

[Oman]

Mizzy Replaces Disciple Slayer

[Mizzy]

Herro! I'm all caught up on the thread. Prod me as needed/wanted:

AIM: Tiasale
Yahoo: dj_mizzy_maltz
Gtalk: mizziness@gmail.com
MSN: mizziness@hotmail.com

Be gentle with me. I bruise easily.

[Mizzy]

Um...guys? <_<

[Incognito]

I'm still around. Mizzy, do you have any thoughts after your read?

[vollkan]

[quote="Mizzy:]
Um...guys? <_<
[/quote]

I agree with Mizzy.

I'm here. I posted my thoughts on everything up to replacement. Nothing has happened since then.

I frankly don't think the problem is lack of external day-talking. Obviously, there is a place for 1-on-1 msn talking and the like - but it needs to be supplementary to the thread.

The majority of the activity needs to be taking place right here in the thread (since I doubt a collective all-in scumchat meeting is going to possible to organise). And, let's face it - not much has occurred in this thread at all (at least in the sense of things which promote proper discussion).

[Oman]

Deadlining for 28th January. Current time is 4:11, 18th January. You have 10 days.