Mafia 75: Return of the Mafia! TOWN WINS (really late)

[curiouskarmadog]

BM: Thanks for answering.

The eeny meeny argument was somewhat pointless, as it first came up as a randomish vote.

Rosso Carne: "Personally murdered"? Is that saying you are able to kill people?

do you really want an answer to this? if so, why?

[skitzer]

It feels as though it may have been a slip or something. Take everything seriously in Mafia.

[VanDamien]

what up im checkin in.. wow alot has been posted i was here at like 8 and it was still locked ayways im kinda drunk ill be back with my vote i gotta read slow

I believe you.

Who cares?

I should have never done that, you're right. Andersonw wasn't in danger of being lynched so I shouldn't have done anything. That's why I unvoted, because I realized I overreacted. I just thought we had better things to discuss than a newbie saying he's a newbie.

We do have better things to discuss, now. Like why you're leaping to someone else's defense then finding it necessary to believe killa publicly.

[GSGold]

vote GSGold

, for jump on a beginning bandwagon without really scum hunting... looking forward to your answers.

Well, my answer is that your questions present a very solid point that I did not think about. I'll leave it to the Vig, then.

Unvote

, not voting for anyone else at the moment.

[Nemesis]

Reading post subject 31, I've searched mafiascum with a variety of keywords and haven't found a single game with a delayed cult recruiter in it, so I don't really understand how some people are claiming they know exactly what a delayed cult recruiter is. I'm guessing those people are just making assumptions about what they know?

Yeah, I pointed out I was already. Although for the record, it is possible for roles to not work until night X... It's just every delayed [role] I've seen with that particular label means the effect is delayed one night.

(Games with delayed SKs are fairly common and I'm basing most of this on those.)

stop talking about the cult recruiter. he's dead, and now there is no cult.

That is probably true, although tomorrow there could be a cult member around.

the next person who talks about the cult recruiter as if its going to help the town to do so is going to be personally murdered.

Meh, it started in the random voting stage... I'd say the cult discussion was no less helpful than voting for random people... And I'd also think at endgame that people would possibly like to know there is a possibility of a de facto survivor running around.

While it's not particularly helpful now, it's something to think about later maybe...

Congratulations on the stifling discussion though. Death threats are always fun.

Plus you get bonus points for leaving confused people's questions up in the air. They might take something for certain when it is guesswork and that's just asking for trouble.

So given your promise to kill me and your threat and post in general, I'm cool with lynching you.

Vote Rosso Carne

Partly for pre-emptive OMGUS (as I assume I've said enough to be personally murdered) and partly because discussion is always good IMO, especially when the game is still fresh.

[Charity]

Vote: BattleMage

Seems suspicious...

[curiouskarmadog]

Vote: BattleMage

Seems suspicious...

lol..

Welcome..and is there any reason you feel BM deserves your vote?

Christ, how did I get into a position where I am f-ing defending BM? I think BM can be an ass, but he has done nothing here (yet) that warrants anything like the attention he is getting. Was there something else that I missed other than the Miller claim?

[curiouskarmadog]

also

unvote.

[Nemesis]

Well his idea to bandwagon me despite not suspecting me wasn't the greatest and yet I do agree for some part. But he has already claimed, so a vote on him is a statement that such a voter is willing to lynch him (as opposed to willing to almost lynch someone, as most bandwagons stop when claims and stuff happen, BM has no realistic chance of anything happening)... For that reason the votes on BM arn't appealing to me as particularly pro-town right now, especially we're on page 4 in a fairly big game. (Which isn't to say they are scummy as such, just not helping.)

Although it is risky to claim "will be guilty if investigated", it is a possible scum play, so I'm not ruling that out... It would work pretty well for a NK immune SK, I think.

And before someone mentions it, my vote on RC fits some of my "not helping" opinion on BM's wagon. However, mine has the added bonus of him claiming vig when he doesn't have to, or at least pushing the boundaries of jokes.

[Matt_S]

what up im checkin in.. wow alot has been posted i was here at like 8 and it was still locked ayways im kinda drunk ill be back with my vote i gotta read slow

I believe you.

Who cares?

I should have never done that, you're right. Andersonw wasn't in danger of being lynched so I shouldn't have done anything. That's why I unvoted, because I realized I overreacted. I just thought we had better things to discuss than a newbie saying he's a newbie.

We do have better things to discuss, now. Like why you're leaping to someone else's defense then finding it necessary to believe killa publicly.

1. I probably should have put a smiley or highlighted the "I'm drunk" part.
   
2. Since when do we have to discuss defending someone? Isn't that already discussion? And I thought I already said I was overreacting.

Un-FoS Battle Mage

before more people bandwagon.

[killa seven]

alright, issue solved.

the next person who talks about the cult recruiter as if its going to help the town to do so is going to be personally murdered.

so your basically saying your either scum or a sk? and you can kill someone..

vote rosso carne

[curiouskarmadog]

jesus, we are knee deep in newbies.

killa, he could be soft claiming a Vig (townie that can kill) or he could be just making a joke.

do you really think scum would just come out and say that?

[VanDamien]

do you really think scum would just come out and say that?

I did, in Ultimatum. Granted, that was a much different situation.

unvote

Since when do we have to discuss defending someone? Isn't that already discussion? And I thought I already said I was overreacting.

1. We have to discuss everything; well, anything that anyone feels like discussing, that happens in this thread.
2. Exactly
3. Ah, the crux of the question. Why would you overreact? So many possibilities. Furthermore, you say you shouldn't have done anything, well, in your words:

Andersonw wasn't in danger of being lynched so I shouldn't have done anything

Why would his lynch mean so much to you that you feel you would need to stop it if enough players in this large of a game were calling for it?

[Matt_S]

Ah, the crux of the question. Why would you overreact? So many possibilities. Furthermore, you say you shouldn't have done anything, well, in your words:

Andersonw wasn't in danger of being lynched so I shouldn't have done anything

Why would his lynch mean so much to you that you feel you would need to stop it if enough players in this large of a game were calling for it?

I overreacted partly because I'm in the same boat as him. I didn't want him to get lynched for saying something I didn't. Also, I've only played in really small games. In games as large as this one a single vote on someone isn't a threat, and I didn't think about that before voting.

And what makes you think his lynch means more to me than anyone else's lynch? If anyone was about to be lynched for a single post, I'd have to try and stop it. Would you let such a thing pass? According to the last vote count, only Battle Mage, Andersonw and I have more than 1 vote, and I saw that Rosso Carne just got a second vote. I FoS'd Battle Mage before because I seriously thought he was fishy. Now, several people have bandwagoned, hence me withdrawing my FoS. I really can't think of anything to say to defend him that hasn't already been said, and the same for Rosso Carne. Plus, the main thing I learned from voting for you is that I need to be more conservative with my votes.

[Matt_S]

EBMOP: Since that first two sentences above are really ambiguous, I mean I'm a newb and I wouldn't want him to be lynched for being up front about his inexperience when I didn't mention it.

[Khelvaster]

I'm going to

FOS: Battle Mage

. Yeah, he tried to start a bandwagon, but I was thinking the same thing he was when I read Nemesis's post. Granted I've never played in games with delayed anythings(or cults at all). One thing I am a little surprised by is his miller claim, but if he were scum then claiming miller after a cop dies seems a little dumb. If I were town and my cop died, I think I'd make sure that any backup cop doesn't waste any investigations. I think it's enough to be a little suspicious but I'm not going to vote him yet.

What confused me was that Battle Mage cast his initial random vote towards Khelvaster. Not suspicious since it is a random vote, but he says

I know there not a lot of love loss between you and I, but i'd rather if you're town, we dont interfere with each others scumdars in the game, by arguing and getting OMGUSsy.

Now this may be my inexperience talking, but I think if you want to avoid OMGUS then it's best not to vote for the person to begin with. To me it sounds like he's just trying to get Khelvaster to unvote to avoid a bandwagon on himself.

I see what you're saying. To put it simply, me and Khelv have history, and as we dont exactly get on, he was a suitable random vote. Note also that as soon as i had a reason to vote for someone else, i did. Conversely, his vote on me seemed more than random, and i felt we were going down the slippery slope of 'lynch him because i hate him' rather than 'lynch him because he is scummy'. Obviously i was trying to get him to unvote, or at least think clearly and objectively about the game.

BM

Vote Count Updated

Good point. I was voting out of hatred more than out of any real case. I've noticed that you're quoting before your replies now, so you're going in the right direction .

Unvote: Battle Mage

[Battle Mage]

Vote: BattleMage

Seems suspicious...

lol..

Welcome..and is there any reason you feel BM deserves your vote?

Christ, how did I get into a position where I am f-ing defending BM? I think BM can be an ass, but he has done nothing here (yet) that warrants anything like the attention he is getting. Was there something else that I missed other than the Miller claim?

I KNOW!
Im just relieved that there is still someone else here who i can trust to be reasonable and maybe shake some sense into those who follow the crowd.

BM

[Battle Mage]

vote: battle mage

reason: if you're a miller, i'm a newbie.

will expound upon that more when at a computer, not a cell phone.

Is this a counter-claim? Or an admission of inexperience? lol.
I thought of that last night actually. In a 30 player game there is likely to be a Miller of some description. So, i'll invite counters now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

As opposed to it being totally protown to announce it when a guilty has been declared?

Well, you say you called it to prevent cops and doctors from wasting time on you. Or you said it to give any other cops a reason as to why you show up guilty when you're actually scum.

Eh? You're gonna have to rephrase i'm afraid.

I dont think you have been reading the game totally. Please read my last few posts at least. Im kinda tired of having to explain things over and over again, not to mention newer players reading selectively and believing everything they are told. -.-

I have read the entire thread and your posts and thought about them before posting and making a vote. Thank you, however, for your frustration towards the somewhat high number of new players in this game, it says a lot about your character.

Exasperated IC about sums it up.

Also, use some context plz.

What do you mean by this? What sort of context are you wanting?[/quote]

I mean that, yes i claimed Miller, but for gods sake look at HOW.
I claimed it at the earliest opportunity, at the VERY START of the game. You really think if i was scum i would be so forward and claim a role so controversial like that?
A cop had died too, making it significantly less likely, if i was scum, that i'd get investigated (although granted, im a pretty sound investigation choice being one of the more experienced players here).

What is the MOTIVE for me to do this as scum?

This Bandwagon is super weak.

BM

[JordanA24]

@MOD- I know he posted while dead and all, but are you going to modkill anyone if they tell me what I missed reading him blab about?

No, I feel that would be a rather draconian punishment for that, besides, it's pretty much common knowledge anyway.

Just as a note, I'd prefer it if any requests to the mod is bolded in future, to make sure I don't miss them.

Also, Vote Count has been updated

[Incognito]

I overreacted partly because I'm in the same boat as him. I didn't want him to get lynched for saying something I didn't. Also, I've only played in really small games. In games as large as this one a single vote on someone isn't a threat, and I didn't think about that before voting.

And what makes you think his lynch means more to me than anyone else's lynch? If anyone was about to be lynched for a single post, I'd have to try and stop it. Would you let such a thing pass? According to the last vote count, only Battle Mage, Andersonw and I have more than 1 vote, and I saw that Rosso Carne just got a second vote. I FoS'd Battle Mage before because I seriously thought he was fishy. Now, several people have bandwagoned, hence me withdrawing my FoS. I really can't think of anything to say to defend him that hasn't already been said, and the same for Rosso Carne. Plus, the main thing I learned from voting for you is that I need to be more conservative with my votes.

Matt, I'm having a hard time with a lot of your posts. You seem to have this idea that too many votes on one person this early in the game is bad for any player. The number of votes you classify as being "too many" is a rather low number for this kind of set-up. We have 27 living players in this game and it takes one more than half the total number of living players to reach a lynch. This means that on Day 1 we need

14 votes

on one player in order to have that person lynched. The only time someone is

really

in any danger of reaching a lynch is when he or she begins reaching the L-2 and L-1 levels.

You, Battle Mage, and Rosso Carne each have 3 votes apiece and andersonw received some flak for playing the newbie card. Is there any reason you feel that the two players besides yourself shouldn't have the number of votes they've accumulated? Are they really in any real danger because they've accumulated 3 votes apiece? Further, how do you expect to gain information from players without getting a good, strong bandwagon going on them?

[armlx]

Things I don't like:

Matt_S's removal of FOS to stop bandwagonning.

Battlemage's post 92 feel like a slip up to me. Vote stands.

Nemesis pushing the BM wagon for the OMGUS reason, not the "I don't believe his miller claim" reason.

Everyone attacking Rosso for saying something that he would say.

[Nemesis]

Nemesis pushing the BM wagon for the OMGUS reason, not the "I don't believe his miller claim" reason.

Everyone attacking Rosso for saying something that he would say.

The problem with this is I am in fact not pushing BM's wagon... I'm voting for Rosso for something he would say.

[GSGold]

I've already unvoted and consider the bandwagon against BM to not be the greatest idea, but I'll go ahead and respond for his sake.

Eh? You're gonna have to rephrase i'm afraid.

You said your reason earlier as to why you called miller quickly:

Because IF there is another investigative role they are sure to investigate me at some point. This way we dont waste an investigation.

I was simply trying to point out that on the chance you actually are scum, your call of Miller would be an obvious excuse for cops finding you guilty.

Exasperated IC about sums it up.

I don't understand this. Could you rephrase or clarify?

I mean that, yes i claimed Miller, but for gods sake look at HOW.
I claimed it at the earliest opportunity, at the VERY START of the game. You really think if i was scum i would be so forward and claim a role so controversial like that?

How should I know? The most experience I have with the Miller role is on a 9-person game in a chat room. It would seem like a role to call as scum, however. If you'd call it at the very start or not I wouldn't know.

What is the MOTIVE for me to do this as scum?

A cop had died, making it much less likely you'd get investigated, as you said. If there happened to be a second cop who investigated you and got guilty, your claim of miller would have them dismiss you as pro-town. Seems like an quick attempt to get off the hook.

This Bandwagon is super weak.

I'm beginning to agree, hence why I unvoted. I'm going to wait for something a bit more concrete to base my vote on.

[Battle Mage]

I've already unvoted and consider the bandwagon against BM to not be the greatest idea, but I'll go ahead and respond for his sake.

Eh? You're gonna have to rephrase i'm afraid.

You said your reason earlier as to why you called miller quickly:

Because IF there is another investigative role they are sure to investigate me at some point. This way we dont waste an investigation.

I was simply trying to point out that on the chance you actually are scum, your call of Miller would be an obvious excuse for cops finding you guilty.

yep thats fair enough.


[quote="GSGold]

Exasperated IC about sums it up.

I don't understand this. Could you rephrase or clarify?[/quote]

it means my attitude is a product of exasperation at people who i feel are making bad judgements.

I mean that, yes i claimed Miller, but for gods sake look at HOW.
I claimed it at the earliest opportunity, at the VERY START of the game. You really think if i was scum i would be so forward and claim a role so controversial like that?

How should I know? The most experience I have with the Miller role is on a 9-person game in a chat room. It would seem like a role to call as scum, however. If you'd call it at the very start or not I wouldn't know.

Normally scum dont like to claim early as it means they cannot adapt later on, not to mention that they can be countered.

What is the MOTIVE for me to do this as scum?

A cop had died, making it much less likely you'd get investigated, as you said. If there happened to be a second cop who investigated you and got guilty, your claim of miller would have them dismiss you as pro-town. Seems like an quick attempt to get off the hook.

true, but quite frankly a cop with a guilty on me prior to my claim would be suspicious of me regardless of when i claim. Im merely saving a potential 2nd cop a wasted trip, as its likely i'd be investigated as some point. Its pretty much a null tell, but if you meta-game me, you will probably see why id even call it a town tell from ME.

BM