Newbie 2083: Viae Romanae - End!

Looker · Post Post #775 (ISO) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:04 am

Okay, that makes way more sense. At work, so I can't address everything, but regarding the colored list - none of the lines were the same color, not even the red ones with fixer and yeezys. That's the part that confused me, as in why would you harp over the green colors but not the red colors.

Pedit: Fuck sniped

Looker · Post Post #776 (ISO) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:10 am

And an aside: You keep attacking my communication skills but not taking any ownership of comprehension, as if a conversation is a one-sided thing. We both have to try. That's why I keep asking you questions instead of dismissing you and saying you're dumb or scum.

Looker · Post Post #777 (ISO) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:12 am

That goes to MBot as well

Val89 · Post Post #778 (ISO) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:08 am

In post 775, Looker wrote:regarding the colored list - none of the lines were the same color, not even the red ones with fixer and yeezys. That's the part that confused me, as in why would you harp over the green colors but not the red colors.

Yes, OK, I didn't notice there were 5 colours rather than 3, but I don't think it matters. What does matter, and this was obvious from the fact that yeezys and kenny occupied the same line, notwithstanding the colours, was it was an ordered list of scumreads v townreads.

I took that list to mean "I am most confident about Mbot being town, followed by T3, followed by Val, who I am least confident about but still more likley to flip town than scum. Then fixer seems more scum than town to me, but I am less confident about that then yeezys or kenny, who are equally scummy in my eyes". I further think you ought to have known that was how that was going to be taken.

That simply does not tally with what you are telling us now, that you thought all of Val, T3, Mbot as "null" instead of town, because you didn't have any reason to suspect us while you did for the other three, and you went and hammered T3 in the end simply because they were a concensus choice. The fact that this doesn't tally is why I continue to question you about it.

In post 776, Looker wrote:You keep attacking my communication skills but not taking any ownership of comprehension, as if a conversation is a one-sided thing. We both have to try. That's why I keep asking you questions instead of dismissing you and saying you're dumb or scum.

I don't beleive I am attacking your communication skills. I don't think we are having a communication issue. I think this is a 'caught scum with no actual answer, so no other choice than to try and make it out like you don't understand the question, or that the answer you've given is perfectly reasonable I just don't understand it, and thus avoid dealing with it' issue.

MBot · Post Post #779 (ISO) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:17 am

Looker I don't like how you avoid actually answering any questions. Either you're not actually reading posts or you're just throwing out your own questions with quotes to look like you're trying. I did ask you to explain and you didn't. You know darn well the difference between your scum games and your town games. I only read one game of each and I'm not going back to give specific examples since I'm on mobile and anyone can find your finished games by clicking your name. I dont ride the merry go round of nonsense posts in response to actual questions. Who is your top scum reads at this point and even a brief reason why. Everyone's on the same page of trying to figure it out except for you and that concerns me. Switch gears and actually play as town if you are because this feels a lot like the Anti Town Koba fiasco vs mafia.

Either way I'm good with voting Looker.

fixer · Post Post #780 (ISO) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:22 am

Looker wrote:
Another interesting coincidence. Fixer only posts when you vote him
, and immediately after as if he's watching the thread. That wasn't even a whole hour between posts.

that wasn't my reaction to the vote, I couldn't care less abt the vote I just wanted to say that I'm still here, I'm indeed watching the thread when I can! posts just take longer to write if i want them to make sense ahdufn

+

i don't see much interesting about this coincidence from my pov, but i

have

seen it being used by scum before so > :?:

I'll start off with a quick POE check on mbot/kenny/val.

Kenny! - Mbot!

In post 177, DkKoba wrote:VOTE: kenny
Ok lets do it then

In post 176, floatingmay wrote:you and fixer are null, val is town,
kenny is scum

Spoiler:

In post 478, DkKoba wrote:weakly defending kenny with shallow reasoning and then shading me for a might be

team is
kenny/mbot

i'll be taking the mvp award now ty

no need to quote for val!

Looker ISO + May ISO

From this post up the interaction feels weird to me, and I could've probably TRed may for it, especially now with the Koba flip. The question is, would they have tried pushing their own mafia -- even for a little bit -- to not get paired? Or even direct a bw Koba's way to get out of the fire of being sussed late game :?: As much as I've known may I don't have a very good grasp on their playstyle sigh, they did suspect Koba and was on the bw but they weren't here enough to stay on it

Spoiler:

^spoiler broke
+ i'm guessing this is poe but it just feels like a weird accusation without much to back it up, would you like to divert some attention onto this read :?:

honorary iso post

Spoiler:

@Looker i'm assuming you think i'm scum here right? if you were the last mason you'd probably claim soon, making me outted i think ? and if you don't think so, really who would be the last scum in this situation? while i've been reading i haven't seen any posts from this day that indicate you thinking ( or atleast pushing ) a vote on me or anyone else.

also i don't think i'm gonna react to any of the looker/val convo because i don't have much to add to it, i do feel like looker has been dancing around most questions honestly, but i could be wrong;;

i could SEE why there could be a TR on T3 last day, but to hammer and not divert attention onto WHY T3 could be town is just a free miselim for scum imo. aka not providing explanations at all to help town = no bueno
( and while you could argue that it

could

help scum too i will not argue against that :idea: but in this case it's kinda anti town since. koba did the same)

( and psssst, looker can you claim maybe because I am wanting to put you at E-1 :up: )

Looker · Post Post #781 (ISO) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:24 am

In post 773, Val89 wrote:It looks very much like you made a readslist, and it appears you did so in response to pressure on your own slot

Spoiler: What pressure?

In post 773, Val89 wrote:When questioned about it today, you haven't been able to give us a single reason you were townreading T3 other than you found other players scummy

But that's a single reason.

In post 773, Val89 wrote:nor explain any of your other behavior around it in a way that makes me think this wasn't a scumplay.

What would have been the advantage to this scumplay?

In post 773, Val89 wrote:I also think that perhaps you decided the utility in shutting down the conversation I was trying to start yesterday about that this very readslist overrode any such issues.

The fact that is does appear to me like you were trying to shut down that conversation (as well as one Mbot was trying to have about the makeup of your ISO) is a big part of why I'm coming back to this over and over again and trying to make sure it doesn't get lost, frankly.

I was trying to get to my Thanksgiving with the people I love

What's the conversation you want to have? Let's all compare ISOs - I'm very confident in mine, especially comparatively.

In post 778, Val89 wrote:That simply does not tally with what you are telling us now, that you thought all of Val, T3, Mbot as "null" instead of town

Spoiler: I never said that - I didn't call those three "null"

In post 779, MBot wrote:Looker I don't like how you avoid actually answering any questions. Either you're not actually reading posts or you're just throwing out your own questions with quotes to look like you're trying. I did ask you to explain and you didn't.

Which questions didn't I answer?
Which post didn't I read?
How do you differentiate "looking like you're trying" from scumhunting?
What didn't I explain?

In post 779, MBot wrote:You know darn well the difference between your scum games and your town games. I only read one game of each and I'm not going back to give specific examples since I'm on mobile and anyone can find your finished games by clicking your name.

So it's nothing we can verify? We have to trust you and your vibes? And yet you want me to be more forthcoming with information...?

In post 779, MBot wrote:Who is your top scum reads at this point and even a brief reason why.

You. You vanity wagoned yeezys and fixer and only jumped on Koba last minute. Then you started today testing the waters by doing setup spec instead of committing to a read or accusation - you waited until Val took the lead to follow him.

In post 779, MBot wrote:Everyone's on the same page of trying to figure it out except for you and that concerns me. Switch gears and actually play as town if you are because this feels a lot like the Anti Town Koba fiasco vs mafia.

Either way I'm good with voting Looker.

Everyone? To include fixer? You feel fixer is contributing more than me or is it that you feel I'm moreso a threat than fixer and should be dealt with first?
"Play as town" is a worthless insult

Looker · Post Post #782 (ISO) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:24 am

Lol me and fixer work similar shifts

fixer · Post Post #783 (ISO) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:27 am

actually wait there is a little bit wrong w the post below

the dancing around the question part is directed at earlier ( before and a bit during when val/looker convo evolved + i'm also in agreeance with mbots recent post )

p-edit : woah hey looker :lol:

fixer · Post Post #784 (ISO) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:29 am

wait i also mean the post i just posted not below me :( :(

Looker · Post Post #785 (ISO) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:33 am

Take your time, I have to go to the gym anyway

MBot · Post Post #786 (ISO) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:44 am

Oh my, I don't dive back into your games and give everyone else specific examples when they can look it up themselves quite easily and I now become your top scum read? Looks like retaliatory finger pointing. I'll answer questions from anyone else who had genuine concerns. Fixer looks a hell of a lot better now.

Looker · Post Post #787 (ISO) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:11 am

In post 786, MBot wrote:Oh my, I don't dive back into your games and give everyone else specific examples when they can look it up themselves quite easily and I now become your top scum read? Looks like retaliatory finger pointing. I'll answer questions from anyone else who had genuine concerns. Fixer looks a hell of a lot better now.

In post 727, Looker wrote:@MBot - Is it you?

In post 733, Looker wrote:Is the scum you lol. I had you as most town and scum is extremely confident in NKing my suspicions.

How is it retaliatory...?

fixer · Post Post #788 (ISO) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:20 am

woah same looker

wait i think my emotes have never. shown up
have they? test one two three :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

also what are the chances mbot is really scum i'm honestly confused abt that part

In post 677, Looker wrote:
Spoiler: At the risk of WIFOM pending a miselim
MBot

T3

Val89

fixer

yeezys or kennyk

i'm still not sure what this means but if i think about it hard enough.... i do.
but for good measure could you please restate it in simpler terms :(

Looker wrote:
In post 773, Val89 wrote:It looks very much like you made a readslist, and it appears you did so in response to pressure on your own slot

Spoiler: What pressure?
In post 675, fferyllt wrote:
Vote Count 2-2
T3
(2): Val89, yeezys

yeezys
(1): Looker

Val89
(1): T3

Not Voting
(3): MBot, fixer, kennyk
In post 677, Looker wrote:
At the risk of WIFOM pending a miselim

MBot

T3

Val89

fixer

yeezys or kennyk

In post 773, Val89 wrote:When questioned about it today, you haven't been able to give us a single reason you were townreading T3 other than you found other players scummy

But that's a single reason.
(1)
In post 773, Val89 wrote:nor explain any of your other behavior around it in a way that makes me think this wasn't a scumplay.
What would have been the advantage to this scumplay?
In post 773, Val89 wrote:I also think that perhaps you decided the utility in shutting down the conversation I was trying to start yesterday about that this very readslist overrode any such issues.

The fact that is does appear to me like you were trying to shut down that conversation (as well as one Mbot was trying to have about the makeup of your ISO) is a big part of why I'm coming back to this over and over again and trying to make sure it doesn't get lost, frankly.
I was trying to get to my Thanksgiving with the people I love :lol: What's the conversation you want to have? Let's all compare ISOs - I'm very confident in mine, especially comparatively.
In post 778, Val89 wrote:That simply does not tally with what you are telling us now, that you thought all of Val, T3, Mbot as "null" instead of town

Spoiler: I never said that - I didn't call those three "null"
In post 757, Looker wrote:Fourth time answering: I had suspicions of scum, T3 wasn't one of the suspicions. If he's not scum and there are no third parties, he's town.
In post 772, Looker wrote:I still don't understand Val89's case...or anyone's. I think Val's is hinging on why I didn't put Val, T3, and MBot as "null" instead of town (which is his playstyle preference)

In post 779, MBot wrote:Looker I don't like how you avoid actually answering any questions. Either you're not actually reading posts or you're just throwing out your own questions with quotes to look like you're trying. I did ask you to explain and you didn't.

Which questions didn't I answer?

Which post didn't I read?

How do you differentiate "looking like you're trying" from scumhunting?
(2)

What didn't I explain?

In post 779, MBot wrote:You know darn well the difference between your scum games and your town games. I only read one game of each and I'm not going back to give specific examples since I'm on mobile and anyone can find your finished games by clicking your name.
So it's nothing we can verify? We have to trust you and your vibes? And yet you want me to be more forthcoming with information...?
In post 779, MBot wrote:Who is your top scum reads at this point and even a brief reason why.
You. You vanity wagoned yeezys and fixer and only jumped on Koba last minute. Then you started today testing the waters by doing setup spec instead of committing to a read or accusation - you waited until Val took the lead to follow him.
In post 779, MBot wrote:Everyone's on the same page of trying to figure it out except for you and that concerns me. Switch gears and actually play as town if you are because this feels a lot like the Anti Town Koba fiasco vs mafia.

Either way I'm good with voting Looker.

Everyone? To include fixer? You feel fixer is contributing more than me or is it that you feel I'm moreso a threat than fixer and should be dealt with first?

"Play as town" is a worthless insult

1. but that's just poe, give us a top 5 list on why (you) thought T3 was town!!! :twisted:
2. in yeezys words.

Spoiler:

( aka the reasons for the andres sus when you came in + directing attention onto my uhhhh voting pattern w/o further explanation but i might be remembering both wrong;;)

i'm still feeling weird about that day 1 may/koba int + a lot of my reasons are in that ISO post rn so i'll wait for a response later

Val89 · Post Post #789 (ISO) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:50 am

In post 781, Looker wrote:What pressure?

Spoiler: Pressure can come from from other sources other than votes.

In post 781, Looker wrote:In post 773, Val89 wrote:
When questioned about it today, you haven't been able to give us a single reason you were townreading T3
other than
you found other players scummy

But that's a single reason.

Why are semantic games so important to you?

In post 781, Looker wrote:What would have been the advantage to this scumplay?

Which part?

In post 781, Looker wrote:I was trying to get to my Thanksgiving with the people I love

Thanksgiving was last Thursday, no? My recollection was the deadline still had 48+ hours left to run. You aren't the only player in this game. Why not declare a V/LA for the day and come back to it?

In post 781, Looker wrote:Spoiler: I never said that - I didn't call those three "null"

Oh please. That's very much what that second spoilered quote says to me. What is you position, then?

In post 781, Looker wrote:You. You vanity wagoned yeezys and fixer and only jumped on Koba last minute.

And that was more scummy than you, who vanitied Andres all the while we are at serious risk of a no-lim D1, and we only managed to get a lim at all by the grace of God, and by God I mean fferyllt and her generousity with the deadline extensions?

Val89 · Post Post #790 (ISO) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:23 am

In post 786, MBot wrote:Fixer looks a hell of a lot better now.

I agree, although mainly for:

In post 780, fixer wrote:From this post up the interaction feels weird to me, and I could've probably TRed may for it, especially now with the Koba flip.

The interactions between floatingmay and Koba starting with post 280 to around 237, which was essentially a two page conversation between floatingmay and Koba, with occasional interjections from fixer, is the biggest hole in the scum!Looker theory.

I was agonising over that for a while, to the degree that at one point was I planing on voting for fixer over looker today, because it didn't read much like scum theatre to me at first. I had to reread it several times to catch where floatingmay actually townreads Koba, but is voting Koba until Looker replaces them and shifts the vote to Andres, where it is parked til EoD. Between floatingmay saying they townread Koba (at 311) and being replaced, the conversation between the two reads as Koba trying convince floatingmay that yeezys isn't scum, which raises an eyebrow.

Due to the fact that it does look pro-town Looker (or rather floatingmay) on the surface, I think fixer bringing that up here is pretty negative scum-utility, and he gets a bit of towncred from me for doing so. I think the fact that the surface level reading that "they did suspect Koba" (spoiler alert: for all of about 10 posts, without ever giving a reason, they just left their vote resting there) is what they took away is evidence they aren't lurking away, but following the game carefully, as Looker suggests. Looks the activity stuff might well be legit.

fferyllt · Post Post #791 (ISO) » Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:15 am

Vote Count 3-4

How were consular roads laid out so straight? Just a little trigonometry and engineering. Romans didn't invent surveying technology, but they put it to good use. Terrain permitting, road planning was done in 100 mile increments or less.

Looker

(1): Val89

fixer

(1): MBot

Not Voting

(3): fixer, Looker, kennyk

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to eliminate.

Deadline: December 6, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2021-12-05 09:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

fferyllt · Post Post #792 (ISO) » Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:07 pm

kennyk has been prodded.

More prods will go out in a few hours if needed.

fixer · Post Post #793 (ISO) » Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:03 pm

what a quiet day

VOTE: looker

hello to E-1 how are you today

Val89 wrote:(spoiler alert: for all of about 10 posts, without ever giving a reason, they just left their vote resting there)

they never gave an explicit reason for it but there's the post before the vote:

In post 279, floatingmay wrote:oh mafiascum doesn't have functional pings?

i also have a hard nullread on fixer, smh my head you should be easier to read than this

the only person ssbm can reasonably be scum with here is koba and i'm pretty sure koba is town so that makes ssbm town by extension, and if it turns out that koba's town but ssbm is scum (why do ssbm and scum look so similar) and then we lose well we can just shove all the blame onto koba then!

from a town perspective they might've tried to look into a koba flip and then vote ssbm afterwards.

or from a scum perspective, pivot to ssbm to prove koba as town by extension? who knows, but the pivot wouldn't really be able to happen w/o ssbm posting something scummier. the 2 page conversation between may/koba could have been may trying to pressure koba into a townier state as well as having enough room to align against them if need be.

the real reason why i had may as hard null for a while was mainly because i never saw them do a scumslip i was familar with, but since it's a different platform i'd have to wait longer for any of the AI tells to actually show.

they voted koba, but we'll never know if they would've actually pivoted to ssbm last minute, or would they have stayed on the entire time?

Val89 wrote:what they took away is evidence they aren't lurking away, but following the game carefully, as Looker suggests. Looks the activity stuff might well be legit.

so true! speaking of which i will now continue to be inactive since my long post quota is filled for the next 24 hours zzszzzzzzz

MBot · Post Post #794 (ISO) » Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:15 pm

I have nothing substantial to add and am waiting for Looker to give actual content of where he thinks scum would be other than himself before the hammer butbIndint see that happening. This is more of a prod dodge post since I've been busy with life

Looker · Post Post #795 (ISO) » Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:06 pm

In post 789, Val89 wrote:
Spoiler: Pressure can come from from other sources other than votes.
In post 671, yeezys wrote:pov, fixer carries
personally dont think looker's scum, as if that were the case they'd probably jump onto the t3 vote and make it a wagon for an easy mis-elim
maybe i'm wrong though becuase everyone has different playstyles
so uh, poe is t3 and looker????
For context: Fixers' last words before that 'fixer carries' comment were:

In post 670, fixer wrote:Looker I'm still neutral on but that might be where I look towards if T3 flips town.
Yeeyzs says that scum!looker would probably jump on the T3 wagon, but either way, if T3 flips town (which scum would know they would), then looker is where they will look next. Same is expressed by fixer. I can point to noises being made by other slots, but the point is a townblock was developing, and you were outside of it. I think it's clear at that point that a T3 mis-lim was looking bad for your long-term survival, and scum!you has to survive to the very end with a scumflip D1.

What you did, and the challenge now is to establish if this was simply co-inidicental to that fact, or a scum-motivated reaction to it; was to townread T3, and to put them as your second highest townread between myself and mbot. I asked you at the time why you were townreading there because I wanted to judge if the reasons you had made sense, in order to try and deduce which of the two applies. That was the conversation I was trying to have. Others (mainly fixer, 713) started to take an interest in this too. You just said "Process of elimination. It can't be T3 and yeezy/kennyk." and hammered T3, who only one page before you were townreading, cutting off any further discusion.

I've brought it back up today, and it isn't just me- I think all 4 other slots have said words to the effect that you seem to be attempting to dodge the issue again today. Are we all having communication difficulties?

I don't understand what you're saying in the last part: If flipping town!T3 implicated scum!me, why would I flip T3 if I were scum and knew he was town? Wouldn't it make more sense to draw it out and wait? That's why I asked you what the scum advantage would be to this "scumplay" - none of it makes sense and doesn't come across as a working theory.
One of you is opportunistically being obtuse

In post 789, Val89 wrote:Why are semantic games so important to you?

Because this is a word game and what you're saying is contradictory. So I have to figure out whether you're doing it on purpose or are genuinely having a hard time navigating comprehension.

In post 789, Val89 wrote:Thanksgiving was last Thursday, no? My recollection was the deadline still had 48+ hours left to run. You aren't the only player in this game. Why not declare a V/LA for the day and come back to it?

Because your player list was so notorious for inactivity that your mod had to offer everyone extensions, and I wasn't going to be a part of that statistic. Especially when no one was budging and T3 appeared to be 'scum giving up'.

In post 789, Val89 wrote:
In post 781, Looker wrote:
In post 778, Val89 wrote:That simply does not tally with what you are telling us now, that you thought all of Val, T3, Mbot as "null" instead of town

Spoiler: I never said that - I didn't call those three "null"
In post 757, Looker wrote:Fourth time answering: I had suspicions of scum, T3 wasn't one of the suspicions. If he's not scum and there are no third parties, he's town.
In post 772, Looker wrote:I still don't understand Val89's case...or anyone's. I think Val's is hinging on why I didn't put Val, T3, and MBot as "null" instead of town (which is his playstyle preference)
Oh please. That's very much what that second spoilered quote says to me. What is you position, then?

Then you're interpreting incorrectly. I said town, not null.

In post 789, Val89 wrote:
In post 781, Looker wrote:You. You vanity wagoned yeezys and fixer and only jumped on Koba last minute.
And that was more scummy than you, who vanitied Andres all the while we are at serious risk of a no-lim D1, and we only managed to get a lim at all by the grace of God, and by God I mean fferyllt and her generousity with the deadline extensions?

There's a difference between me drawing out the day to sort because I'd just replaced in and a player who'd been here from the beginning trying to avoid suspicion. I'm trying to figure out a town-motivated reason for WKing at this point.

In post 793, fixer wrote:what a quiet day

VOTE: looker

hello to E-1 how are you today

It's not me, it's MBot.
VOTE: MBot

In post 786, MBot wrote:Oh my, I don't dive back into your games and give everyone else specific examples when they can look it up themselves quite easily and I now become your top scum read? Looks like retaliatory finger pointing. I'll answer questions from anyone else who had genuine concerns. Fixer looks a hell of a lot better now.

In post 794, MBot wrote:I have nothing substantial to add and am waiting for Looker to give actual content of where he thinks scum would be other than himself before the hammer butbIndint see that happening. This is more of a prod dodge post since I've been busy with life

So is shutting down conversation still scummy or no?

Spoiler:

What is your benefit to treating MBot and I differently and holding us to different standards?

Looker · Post Post #796 (ISO) » Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:09 pm

Also, the "actual content" is a subjective and vague jab players use when they have nothing to contribute. I'm assuming that's one of the tactics MBot picked up when browsing how scum in the past have tried to remove me from the conversation. They just say "actual content" despite my posts, questions, answers, and responses to make them come off as superior, as if so signal that

they're

providing "actual content". It's like sayings "fake news".

Looker · Post Post #797 (ISO) » Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:48 pm

In post 701, MBot wrote:Scummies normally wouldnt draw attention to themselves because it adds the risk of saying something that unfortunately raises questions since.. your know.. theyre pulling stuff out of their bum to fake scum hunt against people they know are town.

In post 739, MBot wrote:Poe, Val. Reveal is helping other townies figure shit out so that there are less questions. If I get NK for it and we still pull off a town win then I'm good with that. TW dead is better than MW in my book. We have the option to narrow down further D3 to make it easier later. I guarantee that mafia will try to pressure a random town at this point to take the attention off of them. It's easier to pinpoint BS at this point than in early game.

I feel 701 more adequately describes MBot's interactions in this game than mine
I feel 739 was a quick move to explain why MBot won't be NK'd as scum. I agree with BS being easier to pinpoint, and I feel that that's why MBot is disengaging. Also, she still hasn't explained how my suspicion of her is retaliatory finger pointing

Val89 · Post Post #798 (ISO) » Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:43 am

In post 795, Looker wrote:I don't understand what you're saying in the last part: If flipping town!T3 implicated scum!me, why would I flip T3 if I were scum and knew he was town? Wouldn't it make more sense to draw it out and wait? That's why I asked you what the scum advantage would be to this "scumplay" - none of it makes sense and doesn't come across as a working theory.

When presented with a PoE of player who was playing scummy enough to be at but was actually town then the final scum player; you don't see the scum advantage of that scum townreading said scummy player and trying to open the PoE further?

You don't see the scum advanatge, for, when it becomes clear that said scummy-town player was actually getting limmed regardless of what scum player does and it was a lost cause, and that scum starts to get quizzed on the reasons for townreading the scummy-town, cutting off that discussion because they don't actually have any reasons to reply with in the hope it gets forgotten about?

I can't see how the final scum could play any differently in the circumstances and still hope to win. Let me ask you this way: what was the town advantage, or motivation, for misrepresenting the strength of your townreads?

In post 795, Looker wrote:One of you is opportunistically being obtuse

And the other 3?

In post 795, Looker wrote:Because this is a word game and what you're saying is contradictory. So I have to figure out whether you're doing it on purpose or are genuinely having a hard time navigating comprehension.

It's not. It's a

social deduction

game. Playing word games is antithetical to properly deducing alignments. I am quite sure you are already away that, in English, the phrase "You can't give a single reason why X

other than

Y..." specifically acknolegdes that Y is the one and only reason for X. I can only conclude that you are pretending otherwise and claiming that I am being 'contradictory' to cloud the issues and provide oppotunity to continue throwing shade in every direction you can.

In post 795, Looker wrote:Then you're interpreting incorrectly. I said town, not null.

And we are going round in circles again. Why town?

I can understand if the 'play style difference' you were talking about is that, if you have no reasons to scum read someone, but no reason to townread them either, you still call that a townread, where I would call that null. Fine.

You didn't say Mbot, T3 and Me were all equally town for the same reason that 'process of elimination. It can't be any of those 3 and be yeezys/kennyk'; and for another reason that that doesn't account for the less-strong scumread on fixer, either. The fact that you represented you held those 3 townreads at 3 different strengths indicates 3 different sets of reasons for doing so.

In post 795, Looker wrote:There's a difference between me drawing out the day to sort because I'd just replaced in and a player who'd been here from the beginning trying to avoid suspicion. I'm trying to figure out a town-motivated reason for WKing at this point.

You are trying to represent that parking a vote on a player and trying to start a whole new counterwagon on a player that turned out to be town, with only few hours left on the clock and a serious risk of a mislim was "drawing out the day to sort?", while Mbot considating on a scum wagon rather than risk a nolim was 'trying to avoid suspicion'?

When a townblocks starts saying "It's either fixer or Looker"; your path to victory suddenly

requires

that you achieve a lim outside of yourself and fixer. Scum!you HAS to get a lim today on Mbot, Kenny or Val, without that second mason claiming today. That's how scum!you wins this game. The mason makes no difference to you tomorrow, because you have a change to NK them tonight, and if you guess wrong, while difficult, you still could just counterclaim it yourself and potentially convince the VT in the mix to vote with you.

It just so happens that, out of Mbot, Kenny and Me; Mbot is the only one of those 3 to already claim VT today, and you know they aren't claiming Mason when run up. You want us to lim Mbot today, despite her being your top unexplained townread yesterday, and kenny being your biggest scumread, and that is one big co-inicidence?

An Mbot lim just so happens to be exactly how scum wins this game. Same goes for scum!fixer, to be fair; on the outside chance of town!Looker - if an Mbot lim goes through today, same deal, try nightkill the mason and then they are in a F3 with Looker, whom I have said I find more scummy than fixer, and kenny might well feel the same.

I think Mbot is town, and her lim today looks to me to be the last chance for scum to win this game. My "town-motivated reason for WKing at this point", if 'white-knighting' is what I am doing, is to make sure that town wins, it's that simple.

In post 795, Looker wrote:So is shutting down conversation still scummy or no?

It looks to me like she is specifically avoiding shut down conversation by not hammering you here and now, which is what you did to T3 when conversation was about why you were townreading him. You answered the question - unsatisfactory - in the same post you hammered. Different standards for different behavior. If she had hammered you there as soon as fixer placed the E-1 vote while we were still talking about her alignment, and then you had flipped town, yeah, I would have found that suspicious. I don't find her effectively saying "I have nothing further to add, but I won't hammer yet so you have time to talk about it" even

remotely

comparable.

You really are clutching at straws now, Looker. Short of a straight up scum-slip, I'm not doing Mbot over you, end-of.

Looker · Post Post #799 (ISO) » Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:46 am

In post 798, Val89 wrote:
In post 795, Looker wrote:I don't understand what you're saying in the last part: If flipping town!T3 implicated scum!me, why would I flip T3 if I were scum and knew he was town? Wouldn't it make more sense to draw it out and wait? That's why I asked you what the scum advantage would be to this "scumplay" - none of it makes sense and doesn't come across as a working theory.
When presented with a PoE of player who was playing scummy enough to be at but was actually town then the final scum player; you don't see the scum advantage of that scum townreading said scummy player and trying to open the PoE further?

You don't see the scum advanatge, for, when it becomes clear that said scummy-town player was actually getting limmed regardless of what scum player does and it was a lost cause, and that scum starts to get quizzed on the reasons for townreading the scummy-town, cutting off that discussion because they don't actually have any reasons to reply with in the hope it gets forgotten about?

I can't see how the final scum could play any differently in the circumstances and still hope to win. Let me ask you this way: what was the town advantage, or motivation, for misrepresenting the strength of your townreads?

You're convoluting logical sentence structure, but...
You're going to great lengths to avoid that I thought T3 was town due to the playerlist around him
- Also, explain how the PoE is opened further
So was it a foregone conclusion that T3 was getting eliminated or not? Because you told me that it wasn't since there was 48 hours left on the clock and that I was scum for not fighting it. But now you're telling me there was nothing I could do and that I was scum who became resigned.
"Misrepresenting" is your inserted spin - I never misrepresented anything. In fact, I'm so literal I get harped on for "quoting" and "playing semantics games".

In post 798, Val89 wrote:And the other 3?

Spite, ego, ignorance, survivalism, apathy, - it could be a number of things, which is why I continue to engage to deduce. Fortunately, my posts remain after I die, so people can look back and see the responses to the questions they didn't think necessary to ask beforehand.

In post 798, Val89 wrote:
In post 795, Looker wrote:There's a difference between me drawing out the day to sort because I'd just replaced in and a player who'd been here from the beginning trying to avoid suspicion. I'm trying to figure out a town-motivated reason for WKing at this point.
You are trying to represent that parking a vote on a player and trying to start a whole new counterwagon on a player that turned out to be town, with only few hours left on the clock and a serious risk of a mislim was "drawing out the day to sort?", while Mbot considating on a scum wagon rather than risk a nolim was 'trying to avoid suspicion'?

When a townblocks starts saying "It's either fixer or Looker"; your path to victory suddenly
requires
that you achieve a lim outside of yourself and fixer. Scum!you HAS to get a lim today on Mbot, Kenny or Val, without that second mason claiming today. That's how scum!you wins this game. The mason makes no difference to you tomorrow, because you have a change to NK them tonight, and if you guess wrong, while difficult, you still could just counterclaim it yourself and potentially convince the VT in the mix to vote with you.

It just so happens that, out of Mbot, Kenny and Me; Mbot is the only one of those 3 to already claim VT today, and you know they aren't claiming Mason when run up. You want us to lim Mbot today, despite her being your top unexplained townread yesterday, and kenny being your biggest scumread, and that is one big co-inicidence?

Several players have "turned out to be town", and, yes, I was dragging out the day to get more input from Andres. We weren't at serious risk of a non-elimination because I was present, and MBot wasn't the only player to consolidate. She consolidated on DkKoba last-minute, but bussing is a strategy, so I don't understand the clear.
This isn't Survivor, so I don't see the significance of a "townblock", which is really just a voting block potentially with a scum member in it, but if I need the mason outed so bad, why was I the first one to shut down claiming? Wouldn't I have encouraged it?
To be candid, I think it's either you or MBot, but I'm hoping it's kennyk/fixer. Kennyk moreso than fixer, because I feel that would be a deserving win.

In post 761, Looker wrote:
In post 744, Val89 wrote:It just so happens that 3 mislims is exactly what scum!you needs to achieve to win following a D1 scumflip, after all.

In post 798, Val89 wrote:An Mbot lim just so happens to be exactly how scum wins this game. Same goes for scum!fixer, to be fair; on the outside chance of town!Looker - if an Mbot lim goes through today, same deal, try nightkill the mason and then they are in a F3 with Looker, whom I have said I find more scummy than fixer, and kenny might well feel the same.

I think Mbot is town, and her lim today looks to me to be the last chance for scum to win this game. My "town-motivated reason for WKing at this point", if 'white-knighting' is what I am doing, is to make sure that town wins, it's that simple.

Why is everything I do "

exactly

" what scum need to win the game? You were proven wrong in 761, and you're wrong now in 798. It makes more sense that a town!Looker, town!fixer elimination sequence wins the game, and that's what it looks like has been set up to take place. If you were any good at your job (assuming you're town), you'd be dead already, and seeing as you appear to be the weaker of the two between yourself and MBot, I have to assume she's the scum.

In post 798, Val89 wrote:
In post 795, Looker wrote:So is shutting down conversation still scummy or no?
It looks to me like she is specifically avoiding shut down conversation by not hammering you here and now, which is what you did to T3 when conversation was about why you were townreading him. You answered the question - unsatisfactory - in the same post you hammered. Different standards for different behavior. If she had hammered you there as soon as fixer placed the E-1 vote while we were still talking about her alignment, and then you had flipped town, yeah, I would have found that suspicious. I don't find her effectively saying "I have nothing further to add, but I won't hammer yet so you have time to talk about it" even
remotely
comparable.

You really are clutching at straws now, Looker. Short of a straight up scum-slip, I'm not doing Mbot over you, end-of.

You think it would be advantageous to hammer town right before proceeding to F3? What if it were a foregone conclusion like you're saying T3 was?
Shutting down conversation by refusing to engage is still shutting down conversation, even if it's a way to circumvent your basic alerts.

Fortunately, I'm not dragging this out for you, but moreso so there's record after my flip of different slots' interactions with me.