Newbie 2088 | Game Over

[TTTT]

like if you think I'm unvoting you from your threat of a self-hammer
I'm not ever doing that

this was the scummiest motivated post I made all game

[Lukewarm]

It seemed like no one had considered that mafia would counter claim a tracker in a setup with a protector, and because everyone unanimously voted me it meant we couldn't read into the vote at all.

I did seriously consider that possibility.

But Val's iso was FLAWLESSLY like a cop with a guilty.

I think that your death was less to do with you making a mistake, and more with Val doing an excellent job

I understand I can't see it from my POV and never will. The fact that he claimed a sided on the very player he cced?

You knew he was lying. I knew one of you was lying.

I did a full iso dive on both of you, because I wanted to figure it out.

His ISO for that day looked like a cop with a guilty.

[Lukewarm]

Subject: Newbie 2088 | Mafia PT

TTTT kills Lukewarm
TTTT rolecops midwaybear

I'm not ready for a quick night yet
I need to think about this some more
like

I think Luke is more likely to vote Eyes tomorrow

than Malcolm
but killing Malcolm points to me
but WIFOM
so yeah I need to think some more before we get to the final day

This was basically my thinking on not outing my read on eyes. I was hoping for scum to think I would kill Eyes, then bring me to the hammer. Glad to see that it was at least considered, even if I was wrong to do it lol

[ofmercia]

GG flawlessly played everyone. Clidd night kill was obvious TT scum lol.

[TTTT]

like if you think I'm unvoting you from your threat of a self-hammer
I'm not ever doing that

VOTE: ofmercia

too easy

[TTTT]

ofmercia
are you still maintaining that your play was ok on day1 when every single player in the game said it was bad?
and multiple people in the dead thread said it was bad?
do some self reflection here
this is a team game and you refused to share your ball
and then when you got called out for not wanting to play you threw your ball over the fence into the yard of that creepy dude everyone is afraid of
(my analogy is breaking down a bit here but stay with me)
I was pissed at your arrogance and your refusal to listen to anyone.... and I was the fucking mafia!

Need to get noob games done asap.

^that shit is insulting to everybody else in this game, who all played to win, even when it wasn't always fun for them
you cared more about "getting this over with" than following the site rules that require you play to your win condition

VOTE: ofmercia

[ofmercia]

Sure we can ignore the fact that I was 4 votes and 3 intentions, and multiple showing or literally stating they are going to keep it that way but will wait a bit longer for paint to dry. Ignoring these facts then yes I totally understand why a self hammer somehow was not playing to win.

I understand yours and vals vote since you're scum but the rest is just mind boggling. In the heat of frustration I needed a reason for the terribad play I was witnessing and lashed out at new players that's my bad. I did try to look at a different style game and it was a bit too much things added that seems kinda redundant. And I had already joined another game which I didn't want to bail out on so new games it is.

[ofmercia]

I get if players were willing to change then I wasn't playing to wincondition. But don't be dishonest and try to imply I had even the slightest chance of survival. My chances of survival were the chances of town winning.

[ofmercia]

It's not that bad though. Hopefully my insulting tone will make them not follow noise with "SE" title next to their name and improve their game.

Their inexperience is kinda funny and I do feel bad for how easily they got pulled around by your loud day 1. I feel they kinda knew I was town even but just relieved that the day 1 elim wasn't them. Classic new player experience. They'l get there eventually, when they shake that fear of death off.

[furtiveglance]

It's not that bad though. Hopefully my insulting tone will make them not follow noise with "SE" title next to their name and improve their game.

Their inexperience is kinda funny and I do feel bad for how easily they got pulled around by your loud day 1. I feel they kinda knew I was town even but just relieved that the day 1 elim wasn't them. Classic new player experience. They'l get there eventually, when they shake that fear of death off.

I should have been louder in defending you. However you didn't make it easy, being uncooperative and demanding to be townread for it.

[ofmercia]

It's not that bad though. Hopefully my insulting tone will make them not follow noise with "SE" title next to their name and improve their game.

Their inexperience is kinda funny and I do feel bad for how easily they got pulled around by your loud day 1. I feel they kinda knew I was town even but just relieved that the day 1 elim wasn't them. Classic new player experience. They'l get there eventually, when they shake that fear of death off.

I should have been louder in defending you. However you didn't make it easy, being uncooperative and demanding to be townread for it.

I didn't demand to be town read. I just agreed with clidds post that mafia had more incentive to be co-operative. And clidd came back after I was hammered already btw. So that wasn't the case. I don't mind if you call my self hammer bad (it was). But I can't accept the flat out lies that it had anything to do with win condition.

[TTTT]

it is playing against your wincon as town to hammer a player that is confirmed to you as town

[Val89]

For what is worth, I have no doubt town!me would have made it my mission to ensure ofmercia was flipped from the moment I saw 1i96, and would be fully expecting a red flip to result. I don't think it has anything to do with dealing with an SE scum team in the slightest.

Remember, one of the aims I have as scum is to replicate my town game as far as I am able, and the post I made about the ofmercia lim was the whole, honest truth made in advancing that goal - I absolutely would have limmed there had I been town, and around at the time.

The problem with it was not that it was a mislim, because town gets mislimmed D1 all the time and go on to win, it was a mislim that gave zero info. Only one player bears responsibility for that, in my eyes, but the fact they continue to suggest they hope other players learn a lesson from it seems a very ill omen, unfortunately.

I do, however, fully expect scum!me to start to worry about town!furtive being a threat to my game in future after a game or two of growth. Signs are good, there.

[ofmercia]

it is playing against your wincon as town to hammer a player that is confirmed to you as town

Day 1 was decided, I even glanced back multiple times, there was no saving that. Which I agreed with, I even posted that I don't mind being the day 1 sacrifice. I urged players to make the day 1 elim at least count, to no avail.

I tried providing read lists - "now he is scum reading whoever says he is scum"
I tried waiting - got called scum trying to delay, now intent to hammer from multiple players
I tried defending myself - he expects to be town read

Like I said, my day 1 elim was sealed which was fine, I was ok with it, even though I think the reason was extremely stupid. There was no chance of my survival. This made my wincondition the rest of town, which means a self hammer is in no way playing against my win condition. How is a confirmed dead town a wincon lol. Actually any other vote from me other than against myself would be playing against my wincon.

[TTTT]

Day 1 was decided

not at all
you had full control to avoid a miselim
I even made it crystal clear that the point was to get you to engage not elim you...

e-2 is not really pressure
e-1 plus intent to hammer is what it looks like it will take for ofmercia to engage
lolhammers are very rare in newbie games
or at least they used to be
it's been awhile

I fully expected you to start cooperating
but you doubled down and self-hammered after being told you were being wagoned for pressure because you were uncooperative

@ofmerica I know it's been alluded to just above, but can we ask again why you are not giving a direct reply to TT's question about your mafia experience? It is really, really weird that you are continually and wilfully avoiding this. And like Lukewarm I'm not seeing a way to avoid casting a vote for you when you're actively avoiding answering an important question that has been asked by another player, it is so simple to answer.

[ofmercia]

Yeah I had full control, I must be in a different universe, you are right.

[ofmercia]

Anyway was just here to post GG all. Don't want to read your babbling any further.

[Lukewarm]

Ofmercia - by the time you hammered, it probably didn't matter what you did anymore. But acting like you had nothing to do with the situation is disengenuous.

Once you had locked in your stance for DAYS it was probably too late.

But there was definitely a time when you had full control of the situation. Like, full control.

Hey guys, I think furtive is scum - Like, he has passed my ofmercia scum read.

Of Mercia, can you please give tttt a direct answer to his question about your game experience so my vote on furtive won't be disrupting TTTT's efforts to pressure an answer out of you

VOTE: furtive

I think the point is "don't destroy your slot in the future" and you are responding

"After I destroyed my slot it was impossible for me to have never destroyed my slot"

Which is totally missing the agency you had in the situation long before the hammer.

[MalcolmTucker]

It's not that bad though. Hopefully my insulting tone will make them not follow noise with "SE" title next to their name and improve their game.

Their inexperience is kinda funny and I do feel bad for how easily they got pulled around by your loud day 1. I feel they kinda knew I was town even but just relieved that the day 1 elim wasn't them. Classic new player experience. They'l get there eventually, when they shake that fear of death off.

Why are you acting like this? You repeatedly refused to answer simple questions which would have made you look more townie. It was such a simple thing to do and instead you let a mafia player gain town cred by pushing for you to do so in a way that looked and felt legit.

First turn is always going to be tough to nail mafia. It's sort of a key component of the game...if you nail mafia first turn regularly in a 9-player setup it's not going to be very competitive because town inevitably win all the time. By that point you were clearly the best player to eliminate because you were actively playing against your win condition and refusing to help us simply because you got all upset we dared suspecting you.

Maybe instead of looking down on everyone else who was playing and made honest mistakes you could reflect on just refusing to cooperate with your own team because you thought you were above it.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but frustrating to see that you're being told by more experienced players your approach was counterproductive while still refusing to acknowledge that.

[MalcolmTucker]

Ofmercia - by the time you hammered, it probably didn't matter what you did anymore. But acting like you had nothing to do with the situation is disengenuous.

Once you had locked in your stance for DAYS it was probably too late.

But there was definitely a time when you had full control of the situation. Like, full control.

Hey guys, I think furtive is scum - Like, he has passed my ofmercia scum read.

Of Mercia, can you please give tttt a direct answer to his question about your game experience so my vote on furtive won't be disrupting TTTT's efforts to pressure an answer out of you

VOTE: furtive

I think the point is "don't destroy your slot in the future" and you are responding

"After I destroyed my slot it was impossible for me to have never destroyed my slot"

Which is totally missing the agency you had in the situation long before the hammer.

Indeed, if you come under suspicion in a game of mafia then irrespective of your alignment it's generally due to something you've said or done. Players don't tend to randomly target each other for the sake of it. It's an odd one because ofmerica's play was so obstructive to the point where we reckoned they might not actually be mafia, but it's somewhat impossible to play with someone on your team in the long-run when they don't answer simple questions because such an approach then rewards mafia themselves for refusing to cooperate or try to help the town.

[ofmercia]

Let's just agree to disagree and move on.

[TTTT]

nah
I'd rather tell you one more time that your play was shit before I move on

[PenguinPower]