Newbie 2053 | Primroses | Game Over

[Amélie]

Good morning! This game caught my attention a couple days ago and I'm happy to get a chance to be in it. I'm not caught up but before I get into my normal post by post analysis, I would like to say that I support this Cook wagon and I believe Cook is scum. I won't vote yet for the sake of not ending the day too early but that is where my reads lie currently. I'll be back with more content heavy posts after work.

[Amélie]

UNVOTE:

[Amélie]

VOTE: endlessdark
Endlessdark seem intimidating.

Out of all of the RVS posts, this one stuck out because the vote came with reasoning that just doesn't make sense to me but it could just be some joke that I didn't understand.

Anyone else on prism bandwagon?? Only need 2 more to depart!

This is quite rushed. It is page 2 and you are rushing an elimination and I find that to be a big problem.

there wasn't a legitimate alignment-indicative reason for lurking in the first place.

You should perhaps consider this option a bit more heavily.

You know exactly why I am avoiding the thread and why I take issue with it, but I cannot explain beyond what I just said via the ruleset, and you know this and are exploiting it.

I think this is probably true. What I'm not sure of yet is whether this is alignment indicative or simply highlight's overaggression in BM's playstyle.

not moving my random vote atm even though you're tempting.

I agree with BM that this is interesting though. Care to elaborate on the reluctance to move your vote Prism?

I don't like going too far into my predecessor and their posts' analysis but I think Wuwei and Battle Mage both have very townie responses to her. Battle Mage is quite confident she is scum over some fairly small reasons which I find comes from town more because scum are more likely to try to find stronger reasons. Wuwei has a very natural town thought process that flows with his thoughts.

VOTE: qspaces

i like this

I think I see a pattern in the posts that I am finding scummy. WhemeStar is catching my attention a lot.

Town: Battle Mage,
Wu Wei
Null: Qspaces
Scum: Whemestar

[Amélie]

I have vacation soon, so I have more time so again for not saying anything!
For now I don't really have amazing thoughts, but I can see why people think a mafia will most likely be silent but on the other hand I think mafia is smart enough of not staying totally silent. I do get why saying things now is pretty important because we don't have anything to really look at but I can see why town would be lurking in this game right now (as I kinda did woops) so I don't think being silent corresponds to being sus and I do see reasons to lurk as town as "Just saying something" is not that easy? (at least for me I guess.) Because I at least want to make a post semi-meaningful and I find it a bit hard to call out suspicious things (I don't want to hide and say oh Im a newbie so I'm not gonna post though). For now I could see why the posts of Prism were a bit aggressive-ish, so I agree with Battle Mage and Wu Wei there but hey Prism will be replaced right?

I personally believe that how quiet a person is will not change with alignment because it depends on the person. A quiet person is going to be quiet regardless of their role pm and a noisy person is going to be loud every game as well.

I know it's question not for me. But...

Right now it was most silentive game in my history.

I agree this game is moving slowly but I haven't seen you make an effort to change that if you find that a problem.

UNVOTE: Prism

I've been jumping back and forth in my head whether Prism's behavior was scummy, but at this point I feel like it's neutral rather than scummy. You can tell that they were frustrated (especially after being replaced) which, while it produced posts that aren't helpful, does not indicate alignment so I'll unvote.

I'll update my vote soon, I'm still thinking who the optimal vote is given what we know.

I like this post from endlessdark. I'm not entirely sure if it says anything about alignment yet but I am leaning town for now.

I have vacation soon, so I have more time so again for not saying anything!
For now I don't really have amazing thoughts, but I can see why people think a mafia will most likely be silent but on the other hand I think mafia is smart enough of not staying totally silent. I do get why saying things now is pretty important because we don't have anything to really look at but I can see why town would be lurking in this game right now (as I kinda did woops) so I don't think being silent corresponds to being sus and I do see reasons to lurk as town as "Just saying something" is not that easy? (at least for me I guess.) Because I at least want to make a post semi-meaningful and I find it a bit hard to call out suspicious things (I don't want to hide and say oh Im a newbie so I'm not gonna post though). For now I could see why the posts of Prism were a bit aggressive-ish, so I agree with Battle Mage and Wu Wei there but hey Prism will be replaced right?

I agree that mafia should be smart enough not to be silent. What I think is more indicative of maf alignment is behavior that looks like it's not silent, but does not actually move the game forward (no useful inferences, meaningful votes (e.g. voting somebody who actually might be eliminated), intriguing questions).

I just scrolled through the game pages and I feel like Cook and Qspaces fit this description the best. Cook possibly even more so. I'm alright with either vote so I'll be voting Qspaces with a possible change to Cook if others see his behavior as potentially scummy. I know relying on others is not necessarily ideal, but I'm still getting the hang of what makes somebody mafia in this format.

VOTE: Qspaces

This however, I did not like that much. I haven't talked much about my Cook scumread but I do think Cook is scum and this post makes endless darkness look like they are indirectly defending cook but voting a counterwagon.

I should clarify: I voted Qspaces over Cook because others are voting them as well right now. I don't want to waste my vote on Cook if I'm the only one scumreading them.

This clarification only makes me feel like they were overly self conscious about their Qspace vote so they decided to post this.

I should clarify: I voted Qspaces over Cook because others are voting them as well right now. I don't want to waste my vote on Cook if I'm the only one scumreading them.

Thanks for the clarification.

But now I have a dilemma because this is just such a strange way to reply to a scumread and I have a lot of trouble understanding it.

some thoughts:

On balance, Wu Wei is probably the towniest player. I don't necessarily think he stands his ground as strongly as he did, as scum, especially after Prism repped out. Seems a relatively high-risk, low-reward play as scum anyway (just put them in the spotlight, no chance to buddy someone, not really protecting anyone).
Endlessdark is basically in the same place as me on suspects.
Enchant is quiet but that's more their town meta than scum meta.
Dew feels fairly genuine.
Cook is very quiet here, wouldn't be surprised if he was scum.
I'm very wary of the 2 other SE slots (Wheme and Lunar) - their interaction doesn't make a lot of sense and stands out.

So I'm gonna say 2 scum within: Wheme, Lunar, Cook and Qspaces

This is very close to what my readslist will look like and I will go ahead and say Battle Mage is town for this list.

Woops did my message twice. Also lunar do you have a reason for voting me except for the wagon?

Just how. Did you copypaste it?

Don't put people on E-1, unless you want them dead.

This is an interesting point. I'm not sure it means anything but I think I see this coming from an observational townie more often than not.

If it's a C&P, then it was copied from somewhere. Dew doesn't strike me as the type to keep a notes PT or to take notes in their role PM. The one thing keeping me from being dead-set on it being copied from a mafia PT is that I feel the vote itself would be included in the C&P and that wasn't posted twice. It's not that big a deal for me, not nearly as much as the inactivity and reappearing the moment her wagon reached E-2 to push the competing wagon to E-1.

I still find Wu Wei very townie. Their thought process flows very naturally and I find myself agreeing with most of what they say.

Anyone fine with a lunar wagon

I still really dislike Whemestar

Town: Battle Mage, Wu Wei, Enchant
Null: Qspaces, Dew
Scum: Whemestar, endlessdark

[Amélie]

WhemeStar was lynched, silly.

I wasn't aware of this but I've just noted this.

[Amélie]

I'm going to stop there for now but currently I think Battle Mage is showing a healthy amount of town paranoia. Enchant does not seem to be working an agenda which I take as a sign that they are town. And Wu Wei has a very natural thought process that I understand and agree with.
Those are my strongest townreads.

Qspaces is very confusing. Their response to scum reads is very strange and I am unsure of how to interpret that.
Dew has done a lot of posts full of excuses on why they are not posting but I don't think that has to be scum which is why I've left it in my null category.

WhemeStar is dead so disregard my scum read there. Endless dark I felt had a big possibility of being scum with Cook but of course that completely depends on what alignment Cook is which we do not know.

My Cook scum read is difficult to explain but I feel like he has been not very present and all of his posts feel really fake. I don't personally believe he enjoys being scum because each of his posts feel like a lie and he seems to be having a bad time.

[Amélie]

I request that no one votes Cook until I am caught up because if the thread is locked, quoting posts is much more difficult and I have to click the pm button and copy paste it.

Enchant, that's quite rude. I am commenting as I read the thread.

[Amélie]

maybe but you'd be surprised how often stuff like that happens when copy-pasting from scum chats. I know one player who did the same mistake 3 times in 1 game as scum.

Lol, I have no experience with such situations, didn't know that was a thing. I find it weird that somebody would copy paste from another chat.

Hmm I'd have said they sounded pretty disingenuous when claiming that the vote was "just getting the ball rolling" etc.

In recognition of all of this...no unvote?

Maybe I'm naive but Dew's behavior is still to me an indicator of newbieness more than alignment, I don't think they're an optimal elimination.

Cook, I'd like to hear more from you. At this point it's antitown to be lurking as much as you are. Even if your reads are weak, it'd be helpful to share whatever thoughts you have or what intuition tells you.

I continue to think there is something very unnatural about endless darkness. Knowing what we know and assuming that cook is scum, this post feels like tmi.

Why do you think Dew is newbie rather than scummy? Do you think Cook is scummy for lurking or just anti-town?

Because Dew's behavior looks more clumsy than calculated to me.

Cook's lurking is anti town, but currently not indicative of alignment. His early posts were leaning a bit scummy, though, as they were filler.

This makes endlessdark look extremely self conscious of his scum buddy, presumably Cook.

My attention is divided right now and I haven't been able to get into this game so far.

Default to hammering me if there's no other good eliminations.

That C+V is a bit strange, I'll be honest, but it's forgivable.

I'm pretty certain this is not town because I don't think town ever says things like or similar to this. I can understand town being upset, desperate, or mad but just doing nothing to help the game move forward and repeating that they are willing tot be the default hammer is not something I think town would do.

VOTE: Battle Mage

Given your experience, Battle Mage, you should've known Dew wasn't the optimal vote. Your responses to her didn't at all seem to consider that the fact she was new affected her actions.

This is just a bad vote with even worse reasoning behind it. I am inclined to say the scum team is endless dark and Cook at this point.

VOTE: Enchant

my hero solve is Enchant-Cook - Enchant for the weird hammer and Cook for seeming a bit subdued.

I do not agree with this solve but I can understand where it comes from.

This is where I’m going to vote
VOTE: endlessdark

I had problems with Qspaces a while ago but this vote is definitely a good look for that slot.

prodded.

I don't trust BM entirely but go ahead with eliminating me if you need someone at deadline.

Another one of these posts is very alarming and confirms Cook as scum in my opinion.

Alright. First of all, hello! I'm going to admit it's a bit strange to be filling the body of another player - something I have never done before. I am not new to mafia as a game, but I am new to playing here on these forums. With that in mind - I have figured out most of the changes in terminology except I am uncertain on "townblock". Is this the same thing as "towncore" - a group of accepted and considered "confirmed" town?

I am compiling my own reads on everyone - but it is almost 1am and I have to be in bed; so I will return tomorrow with them.

oops. Please disregard that quote. I was trying to figure out what the coding for the vote tag was and did not realize it hadn't been deleted since I hit the back button

I am getting lost with replacements but I'll comment more on foxxi after I figure out who they replaced. But seeing that Foxxi is fairly new and one of their first posts is a reads list very similar to enchants formatting wise, I think they are town that is trying to learn how to make reads lists and be organized.

Town: Battle Mage, Wu Wei, Enchant
Null: Cookie monster
Scum: endlessdark, Cook

[Amélie]

Enchant:

Analysis: The thing that stands out the most to me here is that he asked Dew who she thought was mafia, and never even gave her a chance to reply. He got one vote, and then hammered Dew. Interestingly Qspaces was at E-1 for something like 3 days without Enchant doing to him what he did to Dew with only one day at E-1. I don’t particularly buy the “don’t put people at E-1” advice as a town read myself either. I have done and said similar things as scum many times - it is easy advice to spew for empty town points. Like many of us here, Enchant is also a newer player but this interaction is the scummiest to me.

Why not hammering Qspaces surprise you?

I didn’t say it surprised me. I said it was interesting. You hammered Dew with no warning, and only one vote on yourself, and let Qspaces sit at E-1. If one of you is scum; it’s possible the other is as well.

Ok I just realized that Foxxi replaced Wu Wei so that is already a very good look. About this post, I liked it a lot and I think this is a possibility that we must go over if Cook flips town here which I don't think he will but if he really does, this is something we need to consider as a possibility.

I am on board with Enchant's play being scummy, BUT having played a couple games with them, this does feel much more reminiscent of their town-game than their scum-game. Unnecessarily salty and defensive. Head says scum, heart says town.

Listen to your heart. I believe Enchant is town here because I feel no agenda behind his posts and no strong purpose.

VOTE:

Cook

ie Monster

There can only be one.

If Cook is town, I will be very surprised given these very scummy posts that belong in RVS more than anywhere else.

I took a peek at the suggested game, and I can see what you are getting at BM. Are you suspecting Cook is trying to play off not caring about an elimination to buy town points then?

And Cook, what do you have to say about the argument BM is making regarding how quiet you have been in comparison to your previous game?

I believe it's entirely a justified argument, however, I'd like to point out I was a Doc in that previous game, and therefore was informed slightly of the setup, had a use in actively fighting the scum team besides dayplay (which, I'd argue, is much more powerful of a motivator to play a game – having something that the other players don't), which is definitely not my strong suit, and also consequentially had a reason to play much more.

I do not believe this is an argument in your favor. Town prs like to talk a little less to avoid getting seen by scum.

I took a peek at the suggested game, and I can see what you are getting at BM. Are you suspecting Cook is trying to play off not caring about an elimination to buy town points then?

And Cook, what do you have to say about the argument BM is making regarding how quiet you have been in comparison to your previous game?

I believe it's entirely a justified argument, however, I'd like to point out I was a Doc in that previous game, and therefore was informed slightly of the setup, had a use in actively fighting the scum team besides dayplay (which, I'd argue, is much more powerful of a motivator to play a game – having something that the other players don't), which is definitely not my strong suit, and also consequentially had a reason to play much more.

Not buying this. Doc might help motivate you, but the difference between the two games is too much. There was no effort this game at all from you to help town. Hell, your last vote was completely random.

I really like this post from endless dark which is making me reconsider whether or not I was too quick to call him scum. I'll lift him to null for now.

Dew is also dead, because i hammered him. You probably should read game before thoughs.

lol this is town. enchant-scum is significantly more measured and cautious. And I don't think scum ever posts something as antagonistic as this when they are potentially on the chopping block.

I definitely agree with this.

Town: Foxxi, Enchant, Battle Mage
Null: Cookie monster, endlessdark
Scum: Cook

[Amélie]

After a little bit more thought, I will be dropping Battle Mage because I feel his recent posting has been a little worrisome.
Town: Foxxi, Enchant
Null: Cookie monster, endlessdark, Battle Mage
Scum: Cook

I feel like I am ready to end the day. I believe Cook is scum and maybe this game will have more energy after a scum flip.
VOTE: Cook
That is the hammer.

[Amélie]

It has felt like you wanted to stop the Cook wagon.

[Amélie]

That might be an exaggeration but it feels like you have some hesitancy towards Cook and I do not understand why.

[Amélie]

Good game