Newbie 2119: Pictures of People Wearing Cool Hats | GAME OVER

[patchwork]

i lied delta is townreading me
id probably still like it but ur right that the flip on me is weord

[patchwork]

man i read that initial post amd somehow missed the "leaning town"

[Cometbright]

By way of responding to #328, #181 was if I was to run under the assumption that Bella was scum. At that time I had started to lessen my read and the transition towards townreading Bella had begun. With the modifier of 'If we were to assume Scum!Bella', I think it's clear that this would only work as an associative tell if one of you were to flip red.

Having a bit of trouble fully understanding this - this is you saying that in #181 you weren't really scum-reading Bella at that point and were moving towards townreading her, right? It's just really weird to me that you wrote your initial post there saying you didn't see it as a scumslip anymore but then added a ninja edit to say "But if it is a scumslip then Comet is scum coaching". That itself isn't really enough to be scummy, it could just be you entertaining a hypothetical after all, but then it just strikes me as off that you write #181 then six hours later vote me in #322 with one of the reasons being that I was one of the people committing hard to the wagon (#318). Doesn't that directly contradict you suggesting earlier that my posting style could be trying to cover for scum!Bella? How can you think both that I was being defensive/giving Bella an out, and also think that I was hard committing?

My consequent pressure on you wasn't derived from this point.

I'm not saying that your vote on me was because you still thought I was trying to cover for Bella. From your posts right before voting you voted me for being one of the people hard committing to the Bella push (which I've explained above directly contradicts your earlier posting regarding me during the push) and for not putting Bella at e-1 (which I did give my explanation and I'm not sure if you actually read/took to mind as in #321 you make no mention of it and argue stuff I would say I answered already).

To give credit to you, you do respond to one of my points in #357. I found it a little flawed though and responded with #382 which you didn't respond to due to the easter weekend business. Would love for you to read it back over now and respond to it - especially since it seems like the not putting Bella to e-1 point of yours seems to be your main issue with me if I'm reading you right?

Also a weaker point perhaps, but if I look at your argument from town!Delta perspective and I truly believe that Comet was one of the people hard committing to Bella, I don't see how I would be the top pick for you to decide to cast a vote on. You said yourself just now that your own opinion on Bella had been switching to town hence the 'If we were to assume', but weren't quite a lot of my posts during that 'push' also accompanied by various 'assuming this is a scumslip' disclaimers? I wish you had responded to my posts at the time cause it's a little awkward now for me to ask you to go back four days and explain your reasoning here retroactively, but is there something to your argument against me that I'm missing?

To try and squeeze my feelings here into a single paragraph, it feels your push against me there wasn't based on you genuinely reading my posts and following the logic you outlined in your reasoning and coming to the conclusion that I was scum - but rather you trying to capitalise on the fallen-apart Bella wagon and her subsequent beginnings of a counter-push when she said the push itself was scummy. Shortly before your vote on me (35 mins to be exact) she indicated she was unsure about me and was reading scum into me so to me it feels like you ran with it and started a push to try and get a wagon forming on me, hoping others would join in with it and get a subsequent mislim. This is what I was trying to say in #380 when I said you felt to me like you were arguing to get a person executed as opposed to genuinely scumhunting.

[Cometbright]

Huh. Ok. So this is the patch read that made you file them away as town?

Just saying, Patch did exactly this (poking/indicating suspicion for someone townreading them) in a scum game too. Using that to read town into them would be inaccurate - it's NAI at best. From Micro 1072:

it's a little strange how you can be so confident in my being town on page two
i dont even feel like im coming off that way either

[Cometbright]

I strongly believe delta is town

Would love your input on my Delta case then - I know you weren't around when the stuff in question unfolded but an outsider perspective might be pretty useful actually.

Not sure if it works here but for 5 minute days it work

Credit to you if you enjoy it, but I can't even begin to imagine how you'd do proper post analysis with five minute days. At that point it's just slightly extended Town of Salem.

I'm really scared to ask this, but how long are nights?

Night phase lasts for two irl days (48 hours).

Do think that both wagons are useless, that's why I started a new wagon, feel free to sheep me (although I know most of you won't)

Are you saying you started the Patch wagon?

[Cometbright]

i dont even know if it's a scumcase i just remember decently bad vibes from venmar early on so i need to check if that still holds true

It's fine if you don't agree with parts of the scumcase now, it just pinged me as really weird that you had enough confidence in a Venmar vote to have a scumcase prepared in your head but then switched votes so easily and then indicated soon after that your reason for seeing Venmar as scummy was 'vibes' which doesn't seem to align with a scumcase. Even seeing it now retroactively would help me understand your posts there.

[Cometbright]

There's a marked improvement in Patch's play from when I last played with them - seeming to play with purpose, but I'm cautious of townreading that too heavily because this could be Scum!Patch in a role that they enjoy, and also because it's a read that is partially derived from meta. (ew) I'm putting them as Null leaning Town, but I don't want to mistake quality for alignment so I'm being cautious on this. There is also an element of seeing scum rather than finding scum? Some of their progression doesn't seem to match what they say post to post so I'm not 100% on how to read it.

Hmmm this is interesting. Honestly thought that Delta would be all over this Patch push but he's reading them as a town-lean? Need to think about what this means.

[Cometbright]

Comet! Speaking of which. I think Comet has had a tendancy to ask questions but then not follow up on them in a meaningful way. Yes, I'm a hypocrite, I didn't respond to their questions way back when straight away (Man went on an Esports binge) but even so, I don't get the town vibes that others do. The play feels cautious and thought-out in a way to not stand out. Re-skimming the thread again and trying to be fresh in my thinking, they did the most 'blending in' and haven't seemed to rock the boat, which I think is a bit more scummy than Townie. Town are going to be a bit more cavalier, I think.

I'm not sure how much of this is stuff I can actually argue against but of all the questions I've asked if I stopped following up then it would've been because I was satisfied with the answer. My main push here has been against you which, as you said, I haven't been able to follow up on much as you weren't responding. Is there anything you can point to regarding this? I think some of your feelings here might come from my posting style of usually sticking to bursts of posts as opposed to spreading them out but I'm not sure if that's really AI at all.

[Cometbright]

Plenty of people piled onto Bella early doors, and I think it's important to not that whilst my vote didn't make it there, I should rightly be included in the 5 people who referred to -that post- as a genuine slip.

Okay so you're indeed confirming that you did post referring to it as a genuine slip, and assumedly must have at some point viewed it as a genuine slip to be doing that(?). What's going on with #318 then? You, by name, refer to the four other people as scum being 'likely present', leaving yourself out of that group that you now confirm you were a part of. If you're town why do you do that?

I think Bella might be onto something and scum is likely present within the people who committed full-send to the slip wagon.

For me that reaffirms that I'm looking in the right place with Venmar and Dragon, and I'll commit now to doing an ISO of both Black and Comet over the weekend.

Also not a strong point but you did only confirm that you should 'rightly be included' after I pointed out it was scummy for you to leave yourself out of it back in post #909 so I'm not letting the scummy vibes I'm getting from this slide.

[patchwork]

Huh. Ok. So this is the patch read that made you file them away as town?

Just saying, Patch did exactly this (poking/indicating suspicion for someone townreading them) in a scum game too. Using that to read town into them would be inaccurate - it's NAI at best. From Micro 1072:

it's a little strange how you can be so confident in my being town on page two
i dont even feel like im coming off that way either

ive also done this in 2113 and 2114 (towngames)

[patchwork]

i dont even know if it's a scumcase i just remember decently bad vibes from venmar early on so i need to check if that still holds true

It's fine if you don't agree with parts of the scumcase now, it just pinged me as really weird that you had enough confidence in a Venmar vote to have a scumcase prepared in your head but then switched votes so easily and then indicated soon after that your reason for seeing Venmar as scummy was 'vibes' which doesn't seem to align with a scumcase. Even seeing it now retroactively would help me understand your posts there.

i didnt have a scumcase, i just said id write one later bcz my memory is fuzzy
on phone so typing is a little hard ill do thjs later

[Cometbright]

My preferred execute today is still Delta. I hope he gets a chance to respond tomorrow, otherwise we're going to be cutting it close with the deadline. If it comes to it then I'll switch wagons to avoid a no execute, but if people reading town into Delta want to post their thoughts to all of this then I'd appreciate it.

Heading to bed now - got another shift tomorrow and then I need to sit down when I get back for movie night with dad so will probably get my response to any developments pretty late. Night all!

[Cometbright]

ive also done this in 2113 and 2114 (towngames)

Yep, not saying it's a scumtell but just saying that it's not something I feel can be used as patch towncred.

[patchwork]

i dont even know if it's a scumcase i just remember decently bad vibes from venmar early on so i need to check if that still holds true

It's fine if you don't agree with parts of the scumcase now, it just pinged me as really weird that you had enough confidence in a Venmar vote to have a scumcase prepared in your head but then switched votes so easily and then indicated soon after that your reason for seeing Venmar as scummy was 'vibes' which doesn't seem to align with a scumcase. Even seeing it now retroactively would help me understand your posts there.

i wanted to case venmar because in all honesty i hadn't really been paying attention to some parts of the playerlist (i was really only focusing on who was towny and excluding those i didn't find towny)
venmar was one of the people who i didn't get the best vibes from early on, they just didn't vibe with me. and then there was this weird sort of inconsistency that i might be remembering wrong. and then i forgot completely about that slot for several pages. it was initially a scumread because i wasn't sure what to do with the bottom half of my list and venmar was generally quite fencesitty at the moment (not contributing much, posts haven't had notable content), and they had just generally been... forgettable. so i don't know. i scumread them before and now i don't. when i look through their iso hopefully i can come to a conclusion on their alignment.

[Bellaphant]

I really don't think delta is a good lim today. I'm also worried that he's a kinda consensus meh, and that these wagons have been fairly stale for days: it's never a good sign.

[AurorusVox]

Bella chill, you know I love you. I'm literally trying to comment on Patch and talk to others as well

eyebrow raised on that post
why are you focusin on patch
you know black wants to push patch so you do it as well to gain towncred in her reads
haiyaa not having that

Happy you are currently voting patch, does that mean you believe venmar is focusing on patch as a bus in your eyes?

[AurorusVox]

I've told you my read on you is rubbish, dragon: I see some towny thought process but some of your posting comes over as buddying/fake/too focused on how you look.

Honestly right now one of the biggest things in your favour is that you reacted first to the 'slip': it feels like a pretty wild gambl for scum to take.

I found your engagement with black super weird patch but the last few pages have been better. You seem to be posting today as the whims strike, which...feels risky for scum..My reads are shot, I think we need to shift to a wagon and get some consolidation/info after night. We need either a compromise lim, which right now feels like dragon or happy or an info lim (black/delta? Who I basically tr)

We really rushed the lims last game but it wasn't an accident, it was very scum sided.

O edit why the fuck are we back at RVs?

Also talking of fuck, the tone of that dragon post was super weird.

VOTE: dragon

@patch, when you get a sec can you talk about the 'scun slip' in your scum game?
.

Bella are you voting dragon for a compromise lim or is there something else? I can’t see much in the way of you providing sr for dragon in these posts, the first post is as far back as I had to go to see something and even then you give towncred for the “wild gamble” of calling your post a slip. The second to last “weird tone” one I’m not even sure what post you’re referring to tbh. Black asked the same and afaict you never responded?

[AurorusVox]

Patch is confirmation bias not something that town suffers from? Since scum would know alignments. Here you say happy assumes black is scum which would suggest happy is town. But then you go on to vote happy for it anyway?

No, I'm not scumreading happy for it. i'm just saying it's confirmation bias + later moved happy up to a null

Okay remove “for it” from my post and the point still stands. Do you follow my logic that confirmation bias suggests happy is town? And then two or three posts later you’re voting them?

[AurorusVox]

Ahhh patch I find this so hard now
The madness of the reads just being everywhere is kinda like I feel that right? And the posting stuff that then changed and just being like fuck it I have no idea. It seems like genuine someone who’s bamboozled and not someone who’s trying to construct a successful way out of d1 based on inside info. At the same time it’s so all over the plane and inconsistent like it could just be because it’s weakly fabricated and I really don’t know anymore :’(

I think if patch can answer:

(1) why they voted happy over confirmation bias
(2) why delta was originally squeezed out instead of dragon

I think that’ll help me get a handle on them

sorry i don't mean to be chaotic i just post as i think
1) i didn't actually vote happy over confirmation bias, it was over the really bad push.
2) honestly no idea it should've been dragon, but as i've said i have no idea what's going on with the bottom layer of my readlists at the moment

Point 2 - if you have no idea why didn’t you keep them all in?

[AurorusVox]

Delta 1010 I have mixed feelings about. I like that he’s providing reads and explanations but like…the majority of the reads are scum? I haven’t seen much in the way of delta trying to determine which of these reads are accurate (comparatively), I think I’d like to see a ranked reads list rather than the awkward mix of starting with null town then mixing in some scum and town reads in a random order?

[Bellaphant]

I think dragon is making some bad pushes - me, delta, black, and their tone is just super off. The 'fucking lying' post just felt like a massive over exaggeration and it's even weirder when it's not followed up.
My lim pool is basically patch/dragon/comet/you

[AurorusVox]

When did you start tr’ing venmar?

[AurorusVox]

Or sorry maybe I should ask when did you stop sr’ing him

[Bellaphant]

I've decided it's just not productive today, and I'd appreciate you just being ok with that.

[AurorusVox]

I find your limpool really weird tbh, you don’t really seem to have spent much time working through these reads. Like eg Comet I just don’t see where you’re getting a sr there, I did a quick iso + find “comet” and I had to go back to like p19 before I find anything you’ve said about them being scummy?

Tonally, comet is super town and in trying not to let that influence me like I'm trying not to let venmar being frustrating influence my read. I'm not saying I want comet to start a random 1 v1 but just chat though some more individual thought processes.

Re: inconsistencies around reads, I think I answered this but I think a big part of it is I'm worried I'm reading people for the wrong reasons, specifically with venmar and comet (I find venmars posting independently scumny of their tone, but I am worried I'm sr-ing comet's being affable as a scum agenda to 'blend in'). Comet, venmar and black wre all in the slip group too - I'm 99% certain one scum is here.

Re: patch was the lack of mentioning the scumslip and patch’s explanation bad enough to move them down from your previous read of null town, or is it just a weaker read you would compromise lim on? Just want to be clear about why they’re there.

I get you haven’t trd me today so I can understand why I’m there for you, but last time you mentioned me was saying I was against my scum meta + that it was odd I was skimming patch (despite saying you did the same, which shouldn’t really be a scum ping for you if you’re town, should it?)