Mini Normal 2319: Flavorless Hell | Day 5

[Aliana]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

This feels like a name I would call Alianna.

You are too easy to expose, Amaretto

i will be your alianna as long as it makes you think i'm town and you'll let me pocket you

YOU ARE NOT THE REAL ALIANNA! IMPOSTOR!!!!

[Aliana]

wait where did the second "n" go? is this a mandela effect

What are you talking about?
(convenient egopost)

So I don't actually get arrested: I'm a meme alt of Alianna and this was just an egopost.

[Aliana]

Aliana what are your reads?

I haven't even read the game lol.

[Aliana]

I read page 1 and saw there was apparently another me and repped in for the lolz.
I'm trying to multitask right now so we'll see when I can read up properly.

[Aliana]

I read page 1 and saw there was apparently another me and repped in for the lolz.
I'm trying to multitask right now so we'll see when I can read up properly.

What is your read on me and why am I scum?

My read on you is

serial killer

and you're scum because my trust in you is forever broken after you pocketed me in Open 882. Or maybe I pocketed myself. It's up for interpretation.

[Aliana]

Spoiler: word brain vomit dump for pages 2 and 3

VOTE: Hu Tao

doesn't really feel like she's trying to read gob here she just seems more concerned that she's being voted for

gob hadn't posted anything remotely readable at that point imo, but if Tao wanted to try to read him, "why the vote?" was a pretty logical question.
I think I see what you mean by concern about the vote, "trying to read gob" just wasn't the best thing to contrast it with.

VOTE: Hu Tao

doesn't really feel like she's trying to read gob here she just seems more concerned that she's being voted for

I don't see this at all?

What does the difference between trying to read someone and not really trying to read someone look like on page 2?

^
Also this. You can have...hmm...approximately 1/17 of a townpoint.

VOTE: Hu Tao

doesn't really feel like she's trying to read gob here she just seems more concerned that she's being voted for

Well this is a fake read. You didn't even ask the reason as to why I voted gob in the first place so how could you know this?

VOTE: altaria

fake read? i made an assumption based on a gut feeling. only scum know the true motivation behind posts, the rest of us have to determine which alignment it comes from

i guess i can see a world where she wasn't sure if it was an rvs vote and was trying to figure that out

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Umlaut

why is kyouko scum for asking about my drew read?

Agrees and then vote them

i reassessed my read after realizing there could be town motivations behind your "why me" stuff.

and yeah i think umlaut's push on kyouko is bad. agreeing with someone doesn't make them town.

he could know you're town and picked you as an easy defense to seem busy. this just feels like shade

I do like that Altaria only explains this when it's pointed out, feel like scum are more likely to make that distinction in the same post as the vote to avoid looking contradictory.

Not feeling too good about Tao's page 3. 56 feels like they're splitting hairs over definitions instead of, idk, trying to address the actual point?
Rest is just vibes.
I don't recall having felt a bad vibe from scum!Tao in past games though, and haven't played with them as town in early game.
Worth noting anyway.

i guess i can see a world where she wasn't sure if it was an rvs vote and was trying to figure that out

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Umlaut

why is kyouko scum for asking about my drew read?

Asking about your Drew read though - you're saying that as of post 33 you have a read on Drew? That seems hard to believe, and even if it were the case that from that short exchange you two had, you garnered a read, I would expect some kind of material response to why Umlaut should be voting drew, not "because he's scum" or maybe even a material response when I asked you to tell me about Drew. Something feels off here

VOTE: Altaria

This, I disagree with, but it does give me some towny detective vibes.

i guess i can see a world where she wasn't sure if it was an rvs vote and was trying to figure that out

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Umlaut

why is kyouko scum for asking about my drew read?

Honestly I was thinking of Kyouko's post as weirdly defensive of me where I haven't done anything to deserve that kind of defense and I bristled at it, and it didn't even occur to me that it was just a flourishy way of asking you to justify your own read.

UNVOTE: Kyouko

Really not sure which way to read Altoona but I'm inclined to think she doesn't jump on me for attacking her attacker if she's scum.

I'm Altoona and you should townread me.
Repeat it over and over again.
"I townread Altoona."

[Aliana]

Spoiler: page 4

Lol at gera voting Altaria for giving him a headache.
It's probably town.

There's probably one scum in Drew/Hu Tao and I'm leaning Hu Tao

VOTE: Hu Tao

Why specifically those two?

Altaria locktown

More from me tomorrow.

why though?

I feel like Dragon is a hot take sort of player

i mean he's right about me but i would like to see how he got there

I will ask in our PT how he got there and get back to you.

Arent you just admitting you’re mafia here?

VOTE: Doctor Drew

..huh? Is this serious?

Still getting good vibes from ssbm and Altaria.

Not much to say re: page 5.

[Aliana]

I didn't get the impression she voted you for 31, I thought she was voting you for 39 and 41

This feels like a town!Alianna post lol.

Like how can you hope to find scum Day 1 when everything is a crapshoot, as you say, without having a few people you trust?

I don't expect to find scum day 1

This vibes like gera from Mafia has a cop, those vibes being town.

I was going to say gera feels pretty similar to Mini Normal 2310.
Might be interesting to go through some other meta, don't feel like it right now though.

Then what's your goal D1?

Vibes

I vibe with this btw.

I feel fine townbinning Aliana for now

might change this later though

Interesting, would like to know why though.

Dragon feels towny to me based on my recollection of past games, but I wouldn't put too much stock in that without actually going to check a few things.

[Aliana]

Uhh.
What is that abomination?

[Aliana]

Hopefully fixed.

Spoiler: the rest of my catch-up

I didn't get the impression she voted you for 31, I thought she was voting you for 39 and 41

This feels like a town!Alianna post lol.

Like how can you hope to find scum Day 1 when everything is a crapshoot, as you say, without having a few people you trust?

I don't expect to find scum day 1

This vibes like gera from Mafia has a cop, those vibes being town.

I was going to say gera feels pretty similar to Mini Normal 2310.
Might be interesting to go through some other meta, don't feel like it right now though.

Then what's your goal D1?

Vibes

I vibe with this btw.

I feel fine townbinning Aliana for now

might change this later though

Interesting, would like to know why though.

Dragon feels towny to me based on my recollection of past games, but I wouldn't put too much stock in that without actually going to check a few things.

[Aliana]

VOTE: gob

I don't understand what gob is doing but I'm not convinced he isn't just limbait.
Any particular reason to vote him?

[Aliana]

Uhh.
What is that abomination?

i have never seen anything like that before

I somehow managed to put (strike=) instead of (spoiler=).

[Aliana]

If I had to make a readslist:

{

Aliana

}
{

Altaria

}
{

geraintm

,

ssbm_Kyouko

}
{

DragonEater70

}
{

Hu Tao

}
{

Umlaut

,

Celebloki

,

gob

,

Doctor Drew

}

Bottom 2 tiers are null. Hu Tao gets her own tier because she's more "conflicted null" than "true null."

P-edit: Interesting, which game was it? I co-modded one where he was scum but I didn't pay much attention.

[Aliana]

Okay, that wasn't the one I co-modded. Maybe I'll check it out.

[Aliana]

Okay fiiiiiiiiiiiine, you can be scum.

VOTE: Doctor Drew

@Altaria - I see what you mean there. I've been looking through gob's completed games for a towngame but it's taken me quite a while to find one.

[Aliana]

Okay fiiiiiiiiiiiine, you can be scum.

VOTE: Doctor Drew

@Altaria - I see what you mean there. I've been looking through gob's completed games for a towngame but it's taken me quite a while to find one.

Man does everyone just blindly follow meta on this site?

I happen to like meta (though I have been burned by it before), but I don't think that's true of everyone on the site and I don't see where the "blind following" is.

[Aliana]

Briefly skimmed gob's ISO in DEFCON and it does seem better, though I don't have the context of actually looking at the interactions.

[Aliana]

Might give it some time before I vote there though.

[Aliana]

Okay fiiiiiiiiiiiine, you can be scum.

VOTE: Doctor Drew

@Altaria - I see what you mean there. I've been looking through gob's completed games for a towngame but it's taken me quite a while to find one.

Man does everyone just blindly follow meta on this site?

What is a better town strategy? Looking up a players meta to understand how they play as certain alingments?

Or....

Voting players who shit post?

I will leave that on the table for discussion amongst the class

I like this post and I 110% agree with it, but somehow it makes me a little uneasy. There is no logical reason why.

Must be shading your buddy!

P-edit: Oh, why so?

[Aliana]

Might give it some time before I vote there though.

do you have any specific thoughts on umlaut?

I agreed with the things they pointed out in 48 and 116.
They're making sense but it's not necessarily towny sense.

[Aliana]

Ah.
Unfortunately, it seems to be gob's only completed towngame that isn't from ages ago.

[Aliana]

Though I have a question for you: I saw you townreading a bunch of people's posts and then putting them in null (IIRC), why is that?

And who are your actual scumreads?

Only person I did that with was Umlaut and I only gave them "approximately 1/17 of a townpoint" for a post where I felt we had similar thoughts.

The readslist was an accurate representation of my reads at the time I posted it. gob and Drew are a little sus to me now but I don't have any strong scumreads.

P-edit: there is now a lot of posts I haven't read.

[Aliana]

@gob - I hate multiquoting and I forget other themes exist. Here.

Though I have a question for you: I saw you townreading a bunch of people's posts and then putting them in null (IIRC), why is that?

Only person I did that with was Umlaut and I only gave them "approximately 1/17 of a townpoint" for a post where I felt we had similar thoughts.

And who are your actual scumreads?

The readslist was an accurate representation of my reads at the time I posted it. gob and Drew are a little sus to me now but I don't have any strong scumreads.

[Aliana]

I gtg, may or may not be back in an hour.

[Aliana]

Why are you assuming that marathon Secret Hitler is a good representation of my scumgame?

[Aliana]

Like, everything you said is true of that game, but there are a few details missing here:
- I had never played marathon games or Secret Hitler before and had zero clue what I was doing
- it was a completely different experience from forum mafia in that there was no time to think
- I gave up on even trying to look town very early on

And then my other recent scumgame was on an alt where I was concealing my identity.

I'll admit, I have no clue how I'm going to pull it off when I do get a proper scumgame on a public account, but I think the few scumgames I have are not the greatest for meta purposes, especially if you're going to try to toneread me. Apart from maybe ChatGPT, but that game I played...probably a little more aggressively than I could get away with now. I don't quite remember.

[Aliana]

Probably not me but I feel pretty bleh right now, too tired to make any conclusions off the recent stuff. I'm off to bed.

[Aliana]

I feel disengaged, maybe since recent talk has been meta.

Who does everyone think has had the worst day so far? (Not meta related)

Wdym by worst day?

Whose posting is the worst so far

Lol, I thought you meant whose day sucked the most irl.

[Aliana]

Like yes I get that it was a marathon game, but it doesn't change my perception of how town vs scum you would look like

If you think I'm wrong you can point me to evidence and I might change my mind.

I could argue with some of your points, but your conclusion is correct so it's not really a useful argument to have. I'll just drop the issue.

[Aliana]

Actually I'll answer my own question, the case in 304 isn't bad. Well, some of it is bad but at least I like the point about 36.

VOTE: Drew

Why do you like that point? The entire case feels a bit conspiracy-ish to me, like it's reading into things too much.

[Aliana]

I don't know when I should be expecting Drew to towntell if he's town, but he hasn't done it yet.

[Aliana]

I'm actually getting a lot of deja vu reading this game from Open 890. Except this time instead of Drew using Alianna as his mod audience, he can interact directly with her. And the vibe between DE and Drew seems similar too.

This gets somewhere around 35.209273% of a townpoint, I know I have tried to make reads off deja vu as town. I specifically like that wording of it btw.

[Aliana]

I'm actually getting a lot of deja vu reading this game from Open 890. Except this time instead of Drew using Alianna as his mod audience, he can interact directly with her. And the vibe between DE and Drew seems similar too.

This gets somewhere around 35.209273% of a townpoint, I know I have tried to make reads off deja vu as town. I specifically like that wording of it btw.

I don't think I worded this clearly, hmm, how do I explain it? Because I don't just mean regular old meta reads.
I like the added complexity (?) of it being "the vibe between these two players" and not just "the vibe of this player."
And now I realize I haven't done exactly that, what I did was more like "the vibe of this game is like the vibe of that game, therefore reads."

This is what happens when I try to post at midnight...

[Aliana]

Actually I'll answer my own question, the case in 304 isn't bad. Well, some of it is bad but at least I like the point about 36.

VOTE: Drew

Why do you like that point? The entire case feels a bit conspiracy-ish to me, like it's reading into things too much.

Because I agree on reflection that saying someone is "off" and then deciding to sheep them anyway doesn't make any sense when there are a zillion other things you could also do, and

seems more like looking for an acceptable place to put his vote

than it does like natural town play, even when the game is just starting.

I don't see how that's in any way a scummy thing to do in RVS and it's a pretty weak reason to vote someone on page 13.

Makes me wonder if this is what you're doing. (hope this red is easier to see for highlighting)

The original case at least came across genuine even if it was reading too deep, this sheep of it is pinging me a little.

UNVOTE:

[Aliana]

I was going to wait to see the VC and deadline before I vote.
I'll make an unofficial one, one second.

[Aliana]

Unofficial VC

DragonEater70 (3): Doctor Drew, Altaria, geraintm
Doctor Drew (2): ssbm_Kyouko, Umlaut
Altaria (2): Hu Tao, gob

Not Voting (3): Celebloki, DragonEater70, Aliana

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-11-29 15:16:00).

[Aliana]

i would be down with an umlaut wagon btw. i think i want to lim within dragon and umlaut today

What's your case on Dragon? Is it just the pocketing thing?

[Aliana]

I'll have to check meta but a strong read like that doesn't seem out of place for Dragon as a player to make.

[Aliana]

do you think dragon is town?

I was townleaning him earlier for his general vibe.

DragonEater making a whole case for scum!Drew and then instantly being like "oh wait maybe he's town tho" is better ersatz effort than I usually see from scum, so that makes me feel better about him for town.

I agreed with this at first but Dragon is typically pretty high-effort iirc.
It's still mildly +town though, methinks.

I'm not hard-townreading him. I could be sold on scum!Dragon. Just not sure that read is necessarily scum-indicative for him.

[Aliana]

Spoiler: intriguing meta findings that I am not sure how to interpret yet

This is from a scumgame Dragon repped into. Very similar entrance, though not as serious.

VOTE: Xegarus
VOTE: camelCasedSnivy
VOTE: biancospino
VOTE: yessiree
VOTE: RCEnigma
VOTE: Aisa
VOTE: Aureal
VOTE: KittyTacky
VOTE: Celebloki
VOTE: Not_Mafia
VOTE: Doctor Drew
VOTE: KatyKimFanClub

Enchant locktown.

VOTE: Xegarus
VOTE: camelCasedSnivy
VOTE: biancospino
VOTE: yessiree
VOTE: RCEnigma
VOTE: Aisa
VOTE: Aureal
VOTE: KittyTacky
VOTE: Celebloki
VOTE: Not_Mafia
VOTE: Doctor Drew
VOTE: KatyKimFanClub

Enchant locktown.

Is this serious?

Oh, I'm actually townreading that post if that's what you mean, but the locktown isn't 100% serious.

And I don't hate Dragon sheeping then in this manor, this is definitely something I would do as town.

.....are you claiming not town?

Huh?

nvm I just realized last time I pushed something like this as a scumslip it was our doctor. So this is probably makes you town if anything.

Pedit: Enchant is this directed at me or Drew?

I'd be willing to vote Umlaut or gob.
I'd consider Drew or Dragon but I kind of want to see more from them.

[Aliana]

Spoiler: intriguing meta findings that I am not sure how to interpret yet

This is from a scumgame Dragon repped into. Very similar entrance, though not as serious.

VOTE: Xegarus
VOTE: camelCasedSnivy
VOTE: biancospino
VOTE: yessiree
VOTE: RCEnigma
VOTE: Aisa
VOTE: Aureal
VOTE: KittyTacky
VOTE: Celebloki
VOTE: Not_Mafia
VOTE: Doctor Drew
VOTE: KatyKimFanClub

Enchant locktown.

VOTE: Xegarus
VOTE: camelCasedSnivy
VOTE: biancospino
VOTE: yessiree
VOTE: RCEnigma
VOTE: Aisa
VOTE: Aureal
VOTE: KittyTacky
VOTE: Celebloki
VOTE: Not_Mafia
VOTE: Doctor Drew
VOTE: KatyKimFanClub

Enchant locktown.

Is this serious?

Oh, I'm actually townreading that post if that's what you mean, but the locktown isn't 100% serious.

And I don't hate Dragon sheeping then in this manor, this is definitely something I would do as town.

.....are you claiming not town?

Huh?

nvm I just realized last time I pushed something like this as a scumslip it was our doctor. So this is probably makes you town if anything.

Pedit: Enchant is this directed at me or Drew?

I'd be willing to vote Umlaut or gob.
I'd consider Drew or Dragon but I kind of want to see more from them.

Elaborate on Umlaut and Drew

Nothing they've done has townpinged me, and a lot of players have townpinged me this game. That's really it.
I have more experience with Drew and I think I might have a tell on him that works in late game, so I'm inclined to want to keep him alive a little longer.

[Aliana]

^
Plus the pings I got from the way Umlaut sheeped ssbm's case.

VOTE: Umlaut

[Aliana]

i would be down with an umlaut wagon btw. i think i want to lim within dragon and umlaut today

Still down to vote Umlaut?

[Aliana]

I am pretty nai on Umlaut. Dragoneater I feel over explains themselves too much. Which is a sign of mafia.

ACTUALLY WITH THIS SAID

UNVOTE: Dragoneater[/unote]

We should actually keep Dragon Eater alive and instead vote someone else. DragonEater can be shot at night or something.
But generally it's bad practice to vote off the obv-wolf Day 1, since it makes the other ones harder to catch.

Are you literally saying that voting scum on D1 is a bad town strat??

It depends on the setup, generally. The idea is that if you keep obv!maf alive to spew the other and anti-spew others.

It also gives the obv!maf time to town it up and weasel their way out of the suspicions.

[Aliana]

I don't think anyone is obv!maf though.

[Aliana]

I'm okay with this.

VOTE: gob

E-1 by my count.

[Aliana]

I really think people should jump off of DragonEater, at least for now. We still have time in the day and should hear him talk before sending him away.

Giving you a notification. You should claim.

[Aliana]

yep i'm feeling this too

i feel a little worse about aliana as well. i'm pretty sure she said she thought gob was limbait but joined the wagon anyway

VOTE: Hu Tao

I thought he could be limbait, and I do still think that is a possibility, but I've been pretty consistent in that I'm not townreading or defending him for it.

[Aliana]

yep i'm feeling this too

i feel a little worse about aliana as well. i'm pretty sure she said she thought gob was limbait but joined the wagon anyway

VOTE: Hu Tao

I thought he could be limbait, and I do still think that is a possibility, but I've been pretty consistent in that I'm not townreading or defending him for it.

do you think gob is scummier than umlaut?

I wouldn't say so. Like, if I made another readslist, I'd put them in the same tier.

[Aliana]

Altaria, what is your reason to vote Hu Tao?

[Aliana]

How do we go from signalling Gob to claim, to flash wagon in Hu?

This seems off.

i think the speed and nature of the gob wagon is what feels off here. i think it's more likely there is scum pushing gob than gob being scum

And why exactly does fast wagon = scum pushing? I hear this rhetoric a lot but what is the actual reasoning behind it?

[Aliana]

Altaria, what is your reason to vote Hu Tao?

Never mind, I missed 444.

[Aliana]

How do we go from signalling Gob to claim, to flash wagon in Hu?

This seems off.

i think the speed and nature of the gob wagon is what feels off here. i think it's more likely there is scum pushing gob than gob being scum

As opposed to the speed and nature of the wagon on Hu??

???

there's two votes on hu tao and both of them have reasons behind them

....that happened just as gob was about to be limmed.

why are you so sure gob is scum here?

Why are you so adamant they aren't?

And the issue with voting Hu isn't a content issue I have......just the timing to finally push her happened just as Gob was basically about to be limmed.

Do you understand my issue with you?

This is certainly a Drew post.

[Aliana]

How do we go from signalling Gob to claim, to flash wagon in Hu?

This seems off.

i think the speed and nature of the gob wagon is what feels off here. i think it's more likely there is scum pushing gob than gob being scum

And why exactly does fast wagon = scum pushing? I hear this rhetoric a lot but what is the actual reasoning behind it?

it doesn't. i just have a feeling gob

is

limbait and that's an easy thing for scum to push

But the speed and nature of the wagon are what gave you the feeling that gob is limbait being pushed by scum?

[Aliana]

How do we go from signalling Gob to claim, to flash wagon in Hu?

This seems off.

i think the speed and nature of the gob wagon is what feels off here. i think it's more likely there is scum pushing gob than gob being scum

As opposed to the speed and nature of the wagon on Hu??

???

there's two votes on hu tao and both of them have reasons behind them

....that happened just as gob was about to be limmed.

why are you so sure gob is scum here?

Why are you so adamant they aren't?

And the issue with voting Hu isn't a content issue I have......just the timing to finally push her happened just as Gob was basically about to be limmed.

Do you understand my issue with you?

This is certainly a Drew post.

How is that a Drew post? You don't agree that the timing is odd?

I get what you're saying, I've just been townreading Altaria otherwise so I don't see it as all that likely.

[Aliana]

Also, it's a Drew post because it has Drew post vibes.

[Aliana]

Aliana, but I am not even calling Altaria scum here.

Did you think I was?

Lol, maybe I don't get what you were saying.
I thought you were implying Altaria was jumping on a counterwagon to save her buddy gob.

[Aliana]

i'm low-key getting town pings from drew here. he is acting like a frustrated townie that is upset with another townie for preventing the hammer/claim on someone he thinks is scum

the only thing i don't get is why he would be so sure about scum gob here

I get townpings too, I think he's genuinely trying to sort you with that line of questioning.

[Aliana]

I will only defend Hu since this jump seems so so suss, and now you are just getting super defensive and acting like I am the one being obtuse here, instead of understanding what my issue is that I keep saying.

i thought you weren't calling me scum here? now it's "so so suss"?

also super defensive? what the heck...

You lashed out at me with some shade saying I was being snarky and so hard to talk to, that is classic defensive behavior.

And I am still not calling you scum, but as I said earlier, you will expose yourself if you are.

for the last time. it was the wagon gaining so much traction that made me think it could be a mislim. when i wrote 444 that was the moment i thought it could be hu, not 20 posts before that

i have no clue why you can't seem to grasp this

Listen I have suspicions you are exposing yourself as scum, just to be fully honest.

But, we seem to also have a massive communication issue here, and I honestly don't want you make you all angry to a point where you rage quit the game here.

So let's take a step back here.

I don't believe Hu is scum, I am not gonna call that a strong read since she really scares me and I can't read her well.......so I wouldn't argue with you calling her scum, per se.

It is just the timing of how it all went down here really screams to me that you didn't think the Gob wagon would move so quickly so you panicked to get another wagon going, and how you didn't start the wagon on Umlaut, and instead followed him onto Hu, while throwing a bit of shade onto Aliana who put Gob at e-1.

Okay, Drew is officially the towniest town that has ever towned. The towniness is just radiating off of these posts.
I suppose I could try to explain it if requested, but it is not something that is easily explainable imo.
God, I hope I'm not getting fooled again.

[Aliana]

I will also note that gob is back at E-1.

[Aliana]

Halfway to 1000!

[Aliana]

If you flip scum, I will flip a table.

[Aliana]

Maybe we get a perfect town win.
@Dragon - who was jailed?

[Aliana]

Please do not post, you are dead.

This is a mistake. I hardclaim reviver and I resurrected the dead mafia goon last night.

[Aliana]

Hmm... it does feel like Dragon probably stopped the killer rather than protected the target

???

There's a significant chance that Dragon was the NK target himself, being the only claimed PR.

[Aliana]

Hmm... it does feel like Dragon probably stopped the killer rather than protected the target

???

There's a significant chance that Dragon was the NK target himself, being the only claimed PR.

uhh i really would have liked that to come from her mouth but alrighty

Sorry if I messed up what you were trying to do, I couldn't imagine what other reason there'd be though.

[Aliana]

I'm just going to wait to see what Dragon has to say before I make any conclusions.

[Aliana]

i feel like i did so good...

I wouldn't have suspected it if you didn't slip.

[Aliana]

I JUST WANTED TO PLAY ONE GAME WHERE PEOPLE DIDN'T TRY TO META READ ME

I don't think I'd try to meta read you this game after how well it worked for me last time lol.

[Aliana]

i feel like i did so good...

I wouldn't have suspected it if you didn't slip.

was it the lowercase? XD

I don't know what it was, actually. I just didn't make the connection.

[Aliana]

i think umlaut and kyouko have the worst interactions with gob

...

we should trust dragon for as long as we can but i don't like how gob tried to save him with his backwards reasoning. reminds me somewhat of the last game he played where he tried to stop a gamma lim from happening

I would agree about Kyouko and Umlaut with regards to their interactions to gob.

In that second bit, are you referring to Large 245 where he was basically trolling Gamma all game, trying to lim her, then at the last second changed his mind when others started to try and join in?

I'm not 100% sure I agree about Drew. He definitely went hard on the gob wagon at the end and said he had intent to hammer, but I wonder if that couldn't have been performative. I'd say there's a good chance Dragon would have jailed Drew last night. They were goin at each other quite a bit before Dragon claimed.

open 891

i don't see the harm in talking about what we think while we wait

It's mostly because I'm lazy. Why go through the work of forming reads now when we're waiting on a crucial piece of info? And if it is as simple as executing whoever was jailed, why put in the effort?

[Aliana]

I JUST WANTED TO PLAY ONE GAME WHERE PEOPLE DIDN'T TRY TO META READ ME

I don't think I'd try to meta read you this game after how well it worked for me last time lol.

it never works for anyone but yet they keep doing it to me

i feel like you already didn't trust me this game and now you never will

It's...admittedly difficult to keep my townread on you now that I have this knowledge.

[Aliana]

I JUST WANTED TO PLAY ONE GAME WHERE PEOPLE DIDN'T TRY TO META READ ME

I don't think I'd try to meta read you this game after how well it worked for me last time lol.

it never works for anyone but yet they keep doing it to me

i feel like you already didn't trust me this game and now you never will

It's...admittedly difficult to keep my townread on you now that I have this knowledge.

ngl i thought you scumread me already after the interaction with drew. i'm a little surprised you don't

You dropped a little in my reads, but I didn't scumread you.
Idk how I read you now, I forgot everything that happened lol.

[Aliana]

The list is only for if the Golden Rule fails.

Golden Rule of NAR: Apply actions which modify other actions before the actions they modify.

So the jailkeep would be applied first.

[Aliana]

The list is only for if the Golden Rule fails.

Golden Rule of NAR: Apply actions which modify other actions before the actions they modify.

So the jailkeep would be applied first.

Same outcome in this case though.

[Aliana]

If we kill the JK target and they are town then we'll need to determine if a) Dragon is lying or b) scum no-killed to frame someone. This may be obvious but I felt like saying it

I already have my theories for who it could be in scenario B

If scum no-killed, that means they felt that framing someone was worth leaving a claimed JK alive another night and giving town an extra execution. Not saying it's impossible but might say something about the kind of position they were in.

[Aliana]

idk if we can trust Aliana. I don't think she has any mod experience. She ain't no Alianna or anything.

*quacks angrily*

[Aliana]

If scum no-killed I think it would probably just be Umlaut but a have a nagging gut feeling that it could be Aliana

I think scum!me would just play optimally here instead of putting myself at a mechanical disadvantage with weird WIFOM plays.
(or maybe that's just what I want you to think...)

[Aliana]

If we kill the JK target and they are town then we'll need to determine if a) Dragon is lying or b) scum no-killed to frame someone. This may be obvious but I felt like saying it

I already have my theories for who it could be in scenario B

If scum no-killed, that means they felt that framing someone was worth leaving a claimed JK alive another night and giving town an extra execution. Not saying it's impossible but might say something about the kind of position they were in.

'Sometime Enchant is just scum' applies here.

Realistically the most obvious thing that happened was that scum tried to NK someone and it was blocked in some way, even if Dragon is scum who lied about being the JK.

I don't think scum is really in any position to get cute here.

Yeah. Not impossible but definitely not likely.

[Aliana]

Realistically the most obvious thing that happened was that scum tried to NK someone and it was blocked in some way, even if Dragon is scum who lied about being the JK.

I didn't think about scum!Dragon getting blocked. I figured he would no-kill to frame someone if he's lying

If Dragon was roleblocked, that should be claimed, right?

[Aliana]

If scum no-killed I think it would probably just be Umlaut but a have a nagging gut feeling that it could be Aliana

I think scum!me would just play optimally here instead of putting myself at a mechanical disadvantage with weird WIFOM plays.
(or maybe that's just what I want you to think...)

Yeah, maybe. I want to believe you. I'm trying to gauge just how big of a disadvantage it would be for you. Dragon claims his target which probably wasn't you since I'm pretty sure he townread you. We kill said target, they flip town. Not sure what you would do as scum N2...no-kill again? I don't think you could kill Dragon because you would probably want to frame him as a liar D3. Maybe just kill some townread player or a suspected PR. We fade Dragon D3, he flips JK, and then it's anyone's guess as to who the sneaky lil liar is. You kill someone N3. That's 4 townies dead from this play, leaving 6 alive on D4, you plus 5 town

Doesn't really seem great I guess but it would get you pretty deep into the game with lots of dead townies along the way

Continuing this thought. If you managed to fade a townie on D4 then you could get to kill another on N4 and then it would be ELO with you an 2 townies

The other play for you would be to kill Dragon N1 and then you're stuck with 8 townies that you have to get through

Does this play really sound all that bad from a scum!you perspective?

Ehhh...maybe it's not terrible. I'd have to actually math out all the scenarios.

[Aliana]

Thing I am pondering: if Dragon is scum, does he really claim JK and then continue to sit on his partner? Because after that, he either has to kill and confirm someone as town every day (if there's only one scum, which there probably is, a kill going through clears his target), or no-kill and then get called a liar when his "target" flips town. Oh, and not to mention deal with all the questions about why he's not dead on Day 5. The claim would seem to screw him over quite badly if he's maf. At the very least, it would be better for him to keep his buddy alive if he's going to claim that, which does not align with the way he actually played yesterday.

[Aliana]

If Dragon's target flips town, I'll probably still townread him tbh.

[Aliana]

Pagetop get.

[Aliana]

Is 3 scum even possible in a 10 player game?

3v7 feels scumsided.

[Aliana]

Maybe it's possible? Seems really unlikely though.

[Aliana]

Well, he was posting yesterday in the spectator PT and mod PT of Open 893, which is now over, so I'd say we can rule out an unannounced V/LA lol.

[Aliana]

Actually not in their next post

blegh I need to sleep, my brain is playing tricks on me

In case you did forget about this game, have a notification.

[Aliana]

any crumbs?

VOTE: gob

i would also be ok with umlaut here

I mean I'm also okay with either

Dragon says this but doesn't join the gob wagon

I'm starting to think it's just Dragon here

gob's whole "yeah Dragon is scum but we should let him live" thing is just so wild to me. I'm also not buying the excuse that Dragon just forgot about this game but I could be wrong there

I'm pretty convinced scum is within {Dragon, Umlaut} so I would be willing to vote either today

Dragon was already on the gob wagon.
Dragon's associatives with gob yesterday don't fit with his choice of claim if he's scum. I think Dragon is competent enough at scum to think about the possible consequences of his claim and realize that claiming JK could make things harder for him as solo scum.

[Aliana]

Like Dragon is posting elsewhere on the site but he just forgot about a game in which he's a PR and scum was faded D1? Doesn't seem very likely to me

Please quote where this happened. He explicitly said in 640 that he

didn't

forget about the game.

[Aliana]

From D1 I thought my role would support a Vigilante on balance but that felt like it would be too swingy/powerful for town if it were in the game ungated. Lazy Vig makes a lot of sense to me

I realize we don't know what scum have, but from your perspective, is it plausible that both Dragon and Black are trueclaiming?

[Aliana]

I think you forgot something else too but I also think you might have done it intentionally so I won't mention it lol.

[Aliana]

For some reason I had it in my head that he said he forgot about the game but it was the opposite

I still think it's weird he didn't want to play in a situation where he faded scum D1 and potentially caught another, but I'm willing to chalk it up to something outside of the game influencing that feeling

Idk, I interpreted 640 as an out-of-game thing.

[Aliana]

Unofficial VC

Umlaut (E-2): Black, Celebloki, ssbm_Kyouko
Black (1): Umlaut

Not Voting (5): DragonEater70, geraintm, Doctor Drew, Aliana, Hu Tao

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-12-09 17:52:00).


You voted Umlaut at the start of the day, so it wasn't E-1.

[Aliana]

One second, I'm a little busy.

[Aliana]

Well, this has been a long second.

Assuming an execution every day and a kill every night from now on (which may not even happen), we've got four executions left. So we're in a good position.

I don't think I'd ever yeet Dragon or Drew.
I like geraintm's vibes but I'm not sure that's enough to definitively un-POE them.
Idk what I think of Tao and Cele.
Black probably needs to be resolved at some point, but I would want Kyouko to claim before voting there.
Yeeting Umlaut is fine.

Have to think on massclaim.

[Aliana]

Whoops XD

I wish I was cool enough to reaction test but nah my memory just stinks

All your brainpower was used to not alt-slip, and we know how well that went

But seriously, I thought that was a reaction test as well.

I was this close to 'hammering'

I am this close to voting them so you can hammer for real.

[Aliana]

From D1 I thought my role would support a Vigilante on balance but that felt like it would be too swingy/powerful for town if it were in the game ungated. Lazy Vig makes a lot of sense to me

I realize we don't know what scum have, but from your perspective, is it plausible that both Dragon and Black are trueclaiming?

Yes. I had a detailed response but I think it's anti-town to provide more commentary

My role is harder to play around for scum if it is not disclosed to them and claiming it for town isn't going to provide anything useful at this time

Hmm.
That's fair.

VOTE: Umlaut

This is actually E-1.

[Aliana]

@Drew - how do you feel about yeeting Umlaut into the stratosphere today?

[Aliana]

@Drew - how do you feel about yeeting Umlaut into the stratosphere today?

Kinda wanna let things play out a bit more

Patience is not one of my virtues lol. I WANT BLOOD!!!!!!!!
(but you are probably right)

[Aliana]

@Drew - how do you feel about yeeting Umlaut into the stratosphere today?

Kinda wanna let things play out a bit more

Patience is not one of my virtues lol. I WANT BLOOD!!!!!!!!
(but you are probably right)

Women

Amirite?

[Aliana]

This is a prodge because I've been really busy today.
Though, @Black - I don't understand what you're getting at with the RB thing. Could you elaborate?

[Aliana]

This is a prodge because I've been really busy today.
Though, @Black - I don't understand what you're getting at with the RB thing. Could you elaborate?

It just felt like you were crumbling in a coy way

Meh. I don't think I'd trueclaim that as scum but it's not an unreasonable thing for you to think. I'm vanilla.

[Aliana]

This is a prodge because I've been really busy today.
Though, @Black - I don't understand what you're getting at with the RB thing. Could you elaborate?

It just felt like you were crumbling in a coy way

Meh. I don't think I'd trueclaim that as scum but it's not an unreasonable thing for you to think. I'm vanilla.

JK/RB in the same setup and both town is not something I think I've ever seen before. I said that because if someone did claim to roleblock Dragon, I'd want him executed.

[Aliana]

I'll unvote for now.

UNVOTE:

I don't think Kyouko should claim today. I believe her when she says it would be anti-town.

[Aliana]

(after hitting "post" I realize I slipped, but since I was calling for mass claim anyway that's fine)

Just to confirm - you're claiming VT?

[Aliana]

So are we believing 3 PRs with 1 mafia goon confirmed

I have my speculations which I am not going to share, but yes, I do think it's at least plausible. Not voting in the PR claims today anyway.

[Aliana]

I will say kyouko made a great point about Mafia maybe using an investigative role instead of the NK. No multitasking so they couldn't do both and it would set up this whole fiasco of speculating about the no kill

Yeah, was an interesting point.

[Aliana]

I kind of think it's dragon or black. Leaning dragon but I'm fine voting outside.

Why do you suspect those two?

[Aliana]

I kind of think it's just Umlaut here.

[Aliana]

Still fine with this.

VOTE: Umlaut

E-1.

[Aliana]

Pagetop get.

[Aliana]

So, I have a question, assuming scum isn't getting roleblocked or the NK target is not getting protected. What Scum PR role would be worth doing over performing a NK? There's no like arsonist or something in this format is there? I feel like unless the scum is being very tricksy by holstering, they must be getting blocked one way or the other by the JK.

There's no chance of third parties in this, so there are three scenarios right now.
1. Scum holstered.
2. Dragon blocked a kill.
3. Kyouko blocked a kill, if her role (currently unknown) is capable of doing so.

I doubt the reason for no-killing would be specifically to use a power role, as they could achieve more by just killing the player they planned to investigate/block/whatever.

[Aliana]

Oddly enough, I think my towniest read is geraintm. I'm kind of thrown for a loop. I think my next Towniest are Black and Kyouko. There's something in the back of my head that's being a little conspiracy theorist that Kyouko's "PR soft claim that makes Black's claim make sense for setup reasons" could be Kyouko pocketing Black, but I'm trying not to let the crackpot win me over. My POE says it's in Dragon, Hu Tao, Drew, Aliana but I'm having a hard time narrowing it down too much further.

If Dragon is scum, why do you think he chose to claim the role he did while also bussing his partner? I explained why a while back, will grab the post in a second, but those actions don't make sense together to me and I think Dragon is competent enough to consider the future effects of his claim.

[Aliana]

Thing I am pondering: if Dragon is scum, does he really claim JK and then continue to sit on his partner? Because after that, he either has to kill and confirm someone as town every day (if there's only one scum, which there probably is, a kill going through clears his target), or no-kill and then get called a liar when his "target" flips town. Oh, and not to mention deal with all the questions about why he's not dead on Day 5. The claim would seem to screw him over quite badly if he's maf. At the very least, it would be better for him to keep his buddy alive if he's going to claim that, which does not align with the way he actually played yesterday.

This one.
Though I just realized he's claiming 2-shot, so this argument is a bit weaker when considering that.

[Aliana]

Well now you're making me question my Drew read all over again. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
*bangs head against desk*

[Aliana]

Well now you're making me question my Drew read all over again. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
*bangs head against desk*

I'm sorry. I was kinda hoping you could talk me out of this since you know him way better. But if you're struggling too then that makes me feel worse about it

It's more like I see where you're coming from with some of your points but haven't fully processed your arguments yet.
I don't read or re-evaluate at night so I still feel like I need to do a proper re-read.

[Aliana]

Well now you're making me question my Drew read all over again. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
*bangs head against desk*

I'm sorry. I was kinda hoping you could talk me out of this since you know him way better. But if you're struggling too then that makes me feel worse about it

It's more like I see where you're coming from with some of your points but haven't fully processed your arguments yet.
I don't read or re-evaluate at night so I still feel like I need to do a proper re-read.

I'm also paranoid of him and will feel like a clown if he fools me twice.

[Aliana]

I'm also going to try to re-read more tomorrow morning to make sure I'm not just tunneling here, but Drew just makes the most sense to me

Sorry if you've already answered this question somewhere, but why is it not Cele?

[Aliana]

Alianna, this is gonna sound funny but one of my hesitations with you is that you seem willing to trust me here. After Backup6 I'm pretty surprised that you don't seem to be that concerned about me being scum. Or maybe you are and aren't showing it? I'm interested in your read on me

I wouldn't say I totally trust you, but I don't think it's worth being too paranoid until Kyouko has claimed.

[Aliana]

@Black - the main reason I townread Drew was because of his interactions with you around EoD1. His treatment of your slot felt very...un-opportunistic, if you will.
I don't think the change in reads after learning you were jailed is scum-indicative. Sure, it's not consistent with thinking you weren't a likely gob partner, but between those posts there was a very important piece of mechanical info revealed, and it is consistent with his more recent previous posts stating that he didn't think scum would "get cute" and that you weren't a likely kill target. I know I've 180'd on reads like that as town after similar mech info was revealed.

[Aliana]

@Black - the main reason I townread Drew was because of his interactions with you around EoD1. His treatment of your slot felt very...un-opportunistic, if you will.
I don't think the change in reads after learning you were jailed is scum-indicative. Sure, it's not consistent with thinking you weren't a likely gob partner, but between those posts there was a very important piece of mechanical info revealed, and it is consistent with his more recent previous posts stating that he didn't think scum would "get cute" and that you weren't a likely kill target. I know I've 180'd on reads like that as town after similar mech info was revealed.

(I have yet to look into your other points, but I went and looked at that one because it was relevant to the topic of Drew's read on you)

[Aliana]

Pagetop get.

Tbh Alianna is the true winner of this game

Alianna? Who is that? There is no Alianna in this game!