Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[Vivax]

We probably should lim Dunnstral actually.

VOTE: Dunnstral

This definitely hits mafia. They also havent been around at all which is pretty classico for Dunnstral's maf game.

Good choice, especially if you are mafia with Dunnstral and Roden is town.

In that scenario, if we got a wagon on Dunn, you’d look for a reason to unvote.

Roden I think is L-2, and you didn’t hep me when I was trying to lim Dunn. Now suddenly you want to ?

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Vivax]

fine with a dunnstral wagon

Voterino ?

[Vivax]

VOTE: Roden

L-1 I think

[Vivax]

VOTE: Hu Tao

Groundhog day.

[Vivax]

I‘m disappointed in the ability of this town to form pressure that Dunnstral didn‘t have to do more.

[Vivax]

Even though that blanket agreement by Hu Tao looked like she told on herself, I‘d be willing to do Dunn or Naerys instead.

The more we write the more scum has to do reading they don‘t want to do the more easy it is for then to make mistakes.

[Vivax]

I think that Naerys comes across as very opportunistic if Hu Tao is town.

[Vivax]

Gonna be taking a break from this site after I get NK'd tonight, this game was unnecessarily insufferable

I don't blame you. It's like I'm speaking a different language trying to communicate with people

I said this earlier but it's basically half the player list experiencing culture shock with the other and both sides calling each other bad

It makes me think Punk is less likely to be scum and that townies on their site just play scum-adjacently

You have a town read that agreed with a post that called them scum, this is hilarious

This literally never happened and was explained to you multiple times.

Bruh, which team are you actually on ?

[Vivax]

Hu Tao does the fact that Naerys voted me not influence your read on both of us at all ?

According to your list you should be roughly at me/naerys.

I‘d like to go Dunn or Naerys because I acknowledge that your tone is very good, mostly.

And the way you didn‘t go after Ninja or Oats also gives you townie points.

I don‘t want it to be TvT

[Vivax]

Vivax what do you mean by the last statement

Meh, I‘m second guessing myself.
I‘m more suspicious of Naerys at this point I think.

The reason she‘s voting for me feels like a thread policing anti spam one, she had the opportunity, and she posts filler.

[Vivax]

I am less confident in hu tao being scum now that

they've revealed that they have been specifically trying to play around seeing who would town read them / defend them suspiciously

I never believe people when they say this.

That just implies that she's playing an entirely reactive game.

What‘s worse ? Dann believing that or Hu Tao claiming it ?

[Vivax]

Vivax what do you mean by the last statement

Meh, I‘m second guessing myself.
I‘m more suspicious of Naerys at this point I think.

The reason she‘s voting for me feels like a thread policing anti spam one, she had the opportunity, and she posts filler.

Is there any reason you stopped pushing for my elimination?

We have largely the same reads now. You reacted well to me and OoO back then, I don‘t doubt you as much as I did and you fared well under pressure.

Pretty generic I know. I believed I had to test if you weren‘t in my blind spot because of your agile but rather background-y way of going along with the thread.

[Vivax]

VOTE: Naerys

[Vivax]

Hu Tao's vote feels survivalistic. I think they are voting me because I said I suspect them and are the largest wagon.

It's hard to find things in his ISO that explain things 'on the offensive', so to say, and this is one of them. Didn't see much followup when he was given the chance to absolutely nail Hu Tao with the fraction of the game that was keen on limming her.

The world where Dunn is town is a world where he joined the game without the intention of solving it to his best ability for whatever reason, that's the world I saw gob going from.

The reason this game gives some of us a headache is probably that. There's townies who are hard to take seriously or straight out uncooperative, and we need to separate those from the mafia.

[Vivax]

I'm kinda over it though. This game is too draining

This is a townie post tbf. She just had to put in a lot of work and a scummer would be more likely to gain sympathy by moving into the role of a victim, or not saying such a thing at all (it could make her look weak). Instead it's just her mentioning her inner state. Call it odd but it sticks out.

I don't know what rationale Hu Tao had to agree with Ninja back there but maybe the entire point was to calm down the situation.

Luca I think I want around since he is valuable on the long term, playing the game properly for the standards I'm used to, and I liked where his head was at reads-wise. Sorry DP.

[Vivax]

It‘s also like nobody ever wants to bring him up.

THANK YOU!!!!! <3

That's the reason I'll still vote for him. The whole ninja-Hu Tao-me triangle started when I voted Dunnstral. Generally I found it almost impossible to have site players open up about him, like they were afraid to bring him up.
On the other hand his flip wouldn't give us a lot of info, but that's one less player who was really hard to pressure while doing very little, which is helpful.

[Vivax]

does anyone have a strong read on grackaroni at all

Not super strong but he's a lean town for me

Why

I just scrolled through his ISO

And idk there is nothing *scummy* exactly but nothing that makes me want to town read him

I feel similarly. I like his tone and reasonableness, but he has played it safe for the most part. The way he announced his suspicion on me felt a little like he was dipping his toe into the water and afraid of getting bitten.

I feel like I'm very much on the same page as Dann and Ninja at the moment and will likely vote along with them. I'm happy to vote any of the following:

Dunn, Grack, Naerys, Hu Tao

. Maybe Gob too? At this point it's an unreadable slot for me.

Minus Grack who I think is town and would probably have a lot of fun this game if he were mafia, otherwise he was reflecting my opinions at the time when I was unsure on who to push between Dunn, Naerys and Hu Tao.

[Vivax]

Even if gob is a troll town, him voting Dunnstral and being familiar with him is a plus. And I think it's a serious vote.

VOTE: Dunnstral

L-1

This is where he has to claim, right?

[Vivax]

Even if gob is a troll town, him voting Dunnstral and being familiar with him is a plus. And I think it's a serious vote.

When did they say this?

Don’t know if they said that, but I assumed you have played together more than we have.

[Vivax]

I just hope he‘s not a town that draws satisfaction from being misyeeted…

[Vivax]

I just hope he‘s not a town that draws satisfaction from being misyeeted…

He's not a troll player, so I doubt it

He seems to care so little though.

[Vivax]

It wouldn‘t surprise me if in this game DP died over the JK

[Vivax]

Is Oats/Dann/Naerys a feasible team in your opinion ?

[Vivax]

A quick look at Nasrys iso and I don't think they are mafia, really. With that said they've done less than me so not sure why all the "lurker" hate is directed at me.

Scummy thing to say imo. The logical explanation is that as mafia you just have to do slightly more than the worst looking townie to get by.

That was just a pile of names to you ? If so that suggests you don’t want to think about team constellations. Why do I have to explain to you why it’s worth it to hand out information ? Town likes to do that on their own.

[Vivax]

I‘m at work, I‘d say my reads changed drastically overnight.

Can we delay the result until I can make a proper list ?

ETA 5 hours until I‘m off

[Vivax]

Damn the aesthetics, I think it‘s Dp, Grack and Luca

[Vivax]

There‘s a few things that stuck out to me while doing the combined iso of dp, luca, dann first. Then I combined dp, luca, ninja and ruled out ninja. Dp, luca, grack was a good fit imo.

That‘s the short version.
I think DP calling out Luca like he was looking good early and then suddenly turning his read on him around when me and ooo worked together looks the worst for him.

He never really had any conviction behind his read on Luca.

[Vivax]

I believe that as a rule of thumb, mafia will have the least disagreements possible with townies to fight over.

The person who fights almost the entire playerlist over the course of a game is hardly going to be mafia.

[Vivax]

I can semi-shitpost from phone but I think I‘ll head out gor a bit before wrapping up my thoughts while on pc.

Ooo, Dann, Ninja I think are all town though. With the claim we can probably ass Hu Tao.

[Vivax]

add* lol

[Vivax]

I understand this is an uphill battle

I understand none of his friends are going to want to kill DP D1

Guy was fighting windmills. Maybe I'm slightly biased but I can fully understand feeling this way.
I like to think that fighting windmills isn't something scum is prone to do.

In DarthPunk town! world a mafia would be more likely to do what I did and just keep him off the table for D1 imo.

[Vivax]

I understand this is an uphill battle

I understand none of his friends are going to want to kill DP D1

Guy was fighting windmills. Maybe I'm slightly biased but I can fully understand feeling this way.
I like to think that fighting windmills isn't something scum is prone to do.

In DarthPunk town! world a mafia would be more likely to do what I did and just keep him off the table for D1 imo.

What does it matter if youre fighting windmills as mafia? It's better youre not listened to as long as your scumbuddies are not under fire.
Was Dann fighting DP windmill when Luca was under fire?

I don't know.

VOTE: Luca Blight

I saw DP having townie thoughts on him earlier similar to me, then realizing he had dropped off at some point (was about to multi-quote but that was probably too much to take in).

We got a wagon going (and by that I mean primarily you and me when we went gogeta) after which Luca's activity went up by quite a bit, but I haven't seen DP really going for the throat afterwards. He is superficially extremely rational but I don't feel his conviction and ambition. It's like he his hesitant to lead and too content with everyone doing whatever they want.

[Vivax]

From my memory he got really quickly turned into voting for Dunnstral even when DP was already voting there.
Like if the basis of your townread on Dann is because he fought to vote DP when noone was listening, he sure did not believe that case well enough looking at where he ended and how he ended there...

It's not really just that but that post in particular I could sympathize with.

Anyway, I'm here currently:

Town: OOO, Hu Tao, Ninja
Lean town: Oats, gob
Null: Naerys
Mafia: Luca, Grack, Dp

[Vivax]

Actually I should probably kick Oats down two notches.
I am historically bad at reading him though.

[Vivax]

And Dann in town ofc lol.

Goddamn it I'm a trainwreck after work.

Dann and DP scum together I could not see from the moment the game started. If so it would be quite the act.

Let me read a bit but I think I'm too fried today.

[Vivax]

Spoiler:

I've been re-reading the Roden/Oats exchange.

unluckily vivax might be scum, thats a shame

otherwise, RVS in a instant majority lynch is a fucking terrible idea and yall should be ashamed of creating that site culture. Absolutely absurd

???

What exactly do you expect to happen?

I'm assuming you're another of Vivax's off site friends?

unluckily vivax might be scum, thats a shame

otherwise, RVS in a instant majority lynch is a fucking terrible idea and yall should be ashamed of creating that site culture. Absolutely absurd

???

What exactly do you expect to happen?

Someone getting quick yeeted because people are being funny

VOTE: Oats

Don't believe this faux outrage

unluckily vivax might be scum, thats a shame

otherwise, RVS in a instant majority lynch is a fucking terrible idea and yall should be ashamed of creating that site culture. Absolutely absurd

???

What exactly do you expect to happen?

Someone getting quick yeeted because people are being funny

VOTE: Oats

Don't believe this faux outrage

It’s real outrage

Bad answer

Roden views Oats' reaction to rvs as faux outrage and thinks that these kinds of posts are made more often by scum, but at the same time is trying to judge first whether Oats' reaction may be due to site differences instead -- This actually seems like a pretty natural progression for his suspicion and I can follow the mindset. I can even get behind the idea behind it. I don't usually random vote, but to come in and make a big deal out of it happening just seems performative.

In the next posts he seems super convinced that Oats is scum. He starts posting read associations for other players based off Oats' posts and saying that he clearly failed an attempt to power wolf. The way he switches on the scum read seemingly from 0 to 100 for little reason is what reads as super strange to me and made the exchange seem out of place with the rest of the thread.

Roden says Luca is obviously the 2nd scum for defending Oats and then says that it's obvious that he's not being serious

I'm mainly just fucking with Oats for being unnecessarily unhelpful and rude

I do genuinely think he's scum for his faux outrage though, and his attempts to discredit me aren't helping

FYI it makes it really hard for players to interpret what you actually believe if you write troll posts just to fuck with somebody that you're scum reading and then make the same style of posts against other people. I still can't tell how strongly you really felt about Oats being mafia. You said that you were really convinced that Oats was scum from the way he was evading answering whether he's from Vivax's site (TL), and then back off after finding out that he is, but if you were truly convinced he was scum then which posts were you making to fuck with him? I'd be interested in hearing what you actually believed without the bravado. (You say that you keep running into uncooperative people playing against their win-con, but you were the one that was trolling and egging on the argument lol)

My case on Order is void at atp, I didn't like their early interactions with Luca and Vivax but 451 turned my opinion around. I vibe with the mentality "I only post what I feel I need to" and tonally I feel that their posting has gotten a lot better.

UNVOTE:

I also had some reservations about Dann, at one point it looked like he may have been trying to pocket me with posts like 332 and when he was hard defending me while writing his case against Ninja. I think he ultimately is town though for later backing up a bit and concluding that he might've been too hasty, I think if he were scum he would just stick to town reading me and leaving it at that.

Luca I think is spewed town for being unable to discern that I was mimicking Oats' play and behavior when interacting with him and then not knowing that me calling them scum was a joke. They've overall been fairly townie and strike me as someone who's got a decent grasp on the game.

Ninja at first seemed similar to Luca, but the more I interacted with her and then saw some of her later posts, the more I think she's just playing with an agenda to elim people rather than scum hunt. Her insistence on arguing that I'm wrong about my own thoughts and intentions reads more as gaslighting rather than someone who's actually try to solve my alignment. 499 doubles down on this and is very tonally manipulative.

VOTE: Ninja

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems you think that people should be suspicious of you based off how you've posted so far. Luca's reaction to your posts spews them as town. Dannfloor first viewing your posts as townie is also viewed with suspicion.

I don't view Roden as suspiciously as I did before. He seems very chaotic, but I can at least see a basis for the posts he made now, and I'm more inclined to believe that he was trolling than that he was trying to back-track on his read on Luca or that his post about scum reading oats while fucking with him was a contradiction.

This seems like a Town post to me. the fact grack went back over old ground to get a firmer grasp on what had occurred, and the conclusions he came to don't seem to have any agenda behind them. I can follow the thought-progression from Grack well up to this point, reading his ISO.

The massive wall he analyzed from Grack is just a wall that carefully analyzed the discussion between Oats and Roden to conclude to.... Nothingburger.

I think what gives Grack away there is that he analyzed it at a time when Roden was under fire and he looked at their convo only judging him with Oats alignment already known.

And Luca just superficially found it townie because of the amount of work Grack put in to 'view Roden less suspiciously as before', whatever the fudge that means.

[Vivax]

Why cannot Ninja and Luca be mafia together?

Vivax, go!

[Vivax]

Ninja can you post a list of your reads please.

I'll just copy and paste the notes I keep on my desktop.

TOWN
Luca Blight - active, good take in post 56
Dannflor - very active. Strangely aggressive? but still making good arguments
Oatsmaster - aggressive pushback on Roden, being a jerk, which is kinda townie tell

NULL
Outoforder - active, but acting in odd and suspicious ways, need better explanations
DarthPunk - very active, Post 57 struck me as sus and I commented on it
Vivax - very active, Back and forth with him over DarthPunk comment, but untrustworthy
Naerys - inactive
Hu Tao - inactive

SCUM
Gob - slightly more active but underwhelming, some bizarre play with the case on Vivax
Roden - was inactive, then strangely aggressive after I pushed him for it, defensive / dismissive
Dunnstral - inactive for a long period, pushed back on my activity level post

MalcolmTucker is afk so they could be anything.

Call me stupid but it takes a special kind of scum to put your buddy at position 1 of your town list

[Vivax]

Ninja can you post a list of your reads please.

I'll just copy and paste the notes I keep on my desktop.

TOWN
Luca Blight - active, good take in post 56
Dannflor - very active. Strangely aggressive? but still making good arguments
Oatsmaster - aggressive pushback on Roden, being a jerk, which is kinda townie tell

NULL
Outoforder - active, but acting in odd and suspicious ways, need better explanations
DarthPunk - very active, Post 57 struck me as sus and I commented on it
Vivax - very active, Back and forth with him over DarthPunk comment, but untrustworthy
Naerys - inactive
Hu Tao - inactive

SCUM
Gob - slightly more active but underwhelming, some bizarre play with the case on Vivax
Roden - was inactive, then strangely aggressive after I pushed him for it, defensive / dismissive
Dunnstral - inactive for a long period, pushed back on my activity level post

MalcolmTucker is afk so they could be anything.

Call me stupid but it takes a special kind of scum to put your buddy at position 1 of your town list

We will see about that. her reasoning didnt even match the list OR the other post when i dug deeper.
I am gonna stop assuming people are stupid, and just yeet the people who say stuff that makes no sense.

What do you think about Grack's post where he analyzed Roden v Oats?
Do you still not see where I'm coming from?

He went into it with the intention of getting more out of Roden's alignment, but somehow treated Oats as if he was already greenchecked or something. Like, Oats was the pillar and Roden just the yoyo coiling around it, that's how he looked at it imo.

[Vivax]

Well, I've decided this game isn't particularly enjoyable for me and I'm probably going to play like Gob from here out, so fill your boots.

Learning from the best I see

[Vivax]

Ganging up lol.
I have two picks as scum who are from my site.

The shouting part may refer to us writing a lot, but anyone can do that as they see fit.

I think this paranoia is a poor attempt by you to turn this into a us vs them thing as opposed to town vs mafia.

[Vivax]

Okay. I'm just going to say it.

I don't have a guilty on anyone.

I wanted to see if scum would do anything awkward when faced in this scenario. Or even tell on themselves. And I wanted to get reactions from people in general for reads and I think I got a few things from this.

Well played

[Vivax]

unsure why Ninja is getting all the heat for bad reads when like Roden/Dunnstral/HuTao were basically consensus null/scum reads all of yesterday

Agreed with this too. Thoughts on who had the worst beginning of day today?

probably oats by a country mile, idk I haven't thought about it too much yet

the wording of 2431 feels weirdly pedantic, like he's trying to give himself an out in case he was tracked to the kill or something

Technically he could also have a role because a fellow investigative would be more suspicious of seeing another one claim.

[Vivax]

unsure why Ninja is getting all the heat for bad reads when like Roden/Dunnstral/HuTao were basically consensus null/scum reads all of yesterday

Agreed with this too. Thoughts on who had the worst beginning of day today?

probably oats by a country mile, idk I haven't thought about it too much yet

the wording of 2431 feels weirdly pedantic, like he's trying to give himself an out in case he was tracked to the kill or something

Technically he could also have a role because a fellow investigative would be more suspicious of seeing another one claim.

[Vivax]

I think Ninja is mafia.

I think she isn't.
She might be town shielding Luca though, and since she's paranoid about us banding together she cares less if he's scum.

[Vivax]

I think Ninja is mafia.

I think she isn't.
She might be town shielding Luca though, and since she's paranoid about us banding together she cares less if he's scum.

she says just so much shit that is completely incorrect i cant believe it anymore

I think the correct play here is to just accept she has different opinions even if they could be patently wrong and move on. Maybe she plays to reach endgame alive, maybe because she has a role ? I don't know.
We can still drum together enough votes. Pressing the issue here is not helpful.

[Vivax]

i guess not hard pushing, mostly sheeping OOO and DP

What makes you so sure that DP is town all of a sudden?

Not how I had you in my mind.

[Vivax]

i guess not hard pushing, mostly sheeping OOO and DP

What makes you so sure that DP is town all of a sudden?

Not how I had you in my mind.

lol nvm it was your followup to describing Oats

[Vivax]

Wish we had some people actually have opinions to the hu Tao claim

Dann do you think mafia posts this when there's an unCCd investigative claim?

[Vivax]

Wish we had some people actually have opinions to the hu Tao claim

Dann do you think mafia posts this when there's an unCCd investigative claim?

Think about it, all you should do in such a case is post as little as necessary. If you throw shade on a possible cop instantly and his target flips red you are in deep. Mostly you just want to know the result ASAP and have everyone shut up.

That's why I think that makes Oats very likely town.

[Vivax]

Wish we had some people actually have opinions to the hu Tao claim

Dann do you think mafia posts this when there's an unCCd investigative claim?

I posted that after she outed

That's an irrelevant detail.

[Vivax]

And this will be the last time I talk to you, unless you apologize and shape the fuck up. I'm going to switch gears now and explain why it is that your personality and your attitude are making this game so difficult for me, probably for Luca also.

When you take this kind of attitude towards people like this, they don't want to talk to you. You're being toxic. You're making me upset. You're real-life stressing me out with how incredibly toxic you are towards me, like I am constantly afraid of saying anything in this game, trying to give a read, without you just completely fucking blowing up in my face over it.

You and your buddies here seem to have some connection with each other that I'm not a part of, and pretty much all of you seem totally satisfied with just beating me up as much as you can. I can't make a counterpoint to Darth without him making some snide comment about how he thinks I'm trying to one-up him. I can't theorize about Vivax without him telling me he's literally laughing out loud at me and how dumb I am. And Oats is just champing at the bit to shit all over anyone. I hate talking to any of you. I fucking HATE it. I can't stress that enough. It is a horrible experience talking to fucking any of you about anything.

I'm asking you to stop and to treat me like a fucking human being, and I will NOT ask again. I'm really fucking sick of this shit. Dial it the fuck down. Now.

I mean this just never comes from scum, theres no way

Unless it's a Blazinghand smurf

[Vivax]

And this will be the last time I talk to you, unless you apologize and shape the fuck up. I'm going to switch gears now and explain why it is that your personality and your attitude are making this game so difficult for me, probably for Luca also.

When you take this kind of attitude towards people like this, they don't want to talk to you. You're being toxic. You're making me upset. You're real-life stressing me out with how incredibly toxic you are towards me, like I am constantly afraid of saying anything in this game, trying to give a read, without you just completely fucking blowing up in my face over it.

You and your buddies here seem to have some connection with each other that I'm not a part of, and pretty much all of you seem totally satisfied with just beating me up as much as you can. I can't make a counterpoint to Darth without him making some snide comment about how he thinks I'm trying to one-up him. I can't theorize about Vivax without him telling me he's literally laughing out loud at me and how dumb I am. And Oats is just champing at the bit to shit all over anyone. I hate talking to any of you. I fucking HATE it. I can't stress that enough. It is a horrible experience talking to fucking any of you about anything.

I'm asking you to stop and to treat me like a fucking human being, and I will NOT ask again. I'm really fucking sick of this shit. Dial it the fuck down. Now.

I mean this just never comes from scum, theres no way

Unless it's a Blazinghand smurf

I mean yes but Im very certain it isnt.

Why ? With that kind of attitude she probably has a ban list hidden under the bed.

[Vivax]

like 80% of the game thinks shes town and shes still going off

Worth pondering if that‘s the problem.

[Vivax]

I hope DP is mafia, he still didnt play with me properly.

If he is and reads over the last pages he will probably be too busy laughing for a few days

[Vivax]

You can‘t make me believe that mofia hu tao ever pulls that play off. It‘s pro taun.

Darth Punk is the bottom in his relationship interesting.

[Vivax]

The almighty Darth Punk shriveled to the size of a pea in a sauna ice water pool within moments

[Vivax]

Reads Hu Tao gathered:
- Dann town (was town before)
- Gob no read (no read before)
- Naerys no read (no read before)

"i made a fake claim to enforce the game".


Explain Hu Tao?

I might see what you‘re getting at.

[Vivax]

But still not voting sorry oOoraynoOo
I think she‘s playing to the best of her ability, now you‘re being paranoid

[Vivax]

If this site vs site narrative keeps escalating, someone‘s going to claim that the TL players are one month away from obtaining enriched uranium

[Vivax]

Hmm i am kinda thinking about the nightkills. Either scum got really lucky or there is person with good analytical mind
makes me kinda sus Dann tbh

Roden claimed JK.

Can anyone explain to me why ht trying to out a counterclaim is something a townie would do?

That’s the second super scummy thing she has done this game , it’s crazy to me how she is just written off as town.

In what world was I trying to out a counterclaim. Why do you always try to twist whatever I'm doing?

He has a point. A real investigative would be suspicious of you and could be outed.

I think that‘s something he would say about you as both alignments. It is simply very safe to push you for it and I don‘t think he‘s town so.

[Vivax]

Okay I guess since you all are not familiar with the site, it's understandable. But there are many games where there can be 2 investigation roles. Maybe like a tracker and a watcher. Or vanilla cop and neap cop. Etc.

You asked why he kept twisting your words and ignoring that factoid, maybe his alignment is the reason ?

I don‘t quite get the townreads he keeps getting handed out.

[Vivax]

On MU the role of the day is pseudojester

[Vivax]

Guys we found oil in Lucas backyard

[Vivax]

Technically if Luca was town and my reads were correct, mafia could push or hammer him.

But they don‘t. Do you think me/naerys/Oats have one mafia or are we the entirety of it ? Work from there.

[Vivax]

Technically if Luca was town and my reads were correct, mafia could push or hammer him.

But they don‘t. Do you think me/naerys/Oats have one mafia or are we the entirety of it ? Work from there.

My reads - him

[Vivax]

Technically if Luca was town and my reads were correct, mafia could push or hammer him.

But they don‘t. Do you think me/naerys/Oats have one mafia or are we the entirety of it ? Work from there.

you talking to me?

I don‘t even know if you‘re playing the game tbh.

[Vivax]

I don‘t know enough about superbowl so I‘ll just copy your guess .

I like to watch the All Blacks dance the haka when the opportunity arises that‘s about my level of knowledge

[Vivax]

American sports are a bit of a worldwide underdog even when the players sometimes nibble on each others ears

[Vivax]

Technically if Luca was town and my reads were correct, mafia could push or hammer him.

But they don‘t. Do you think me/naerys/Oats have one mafia or are we the entirety of it ? Work from there.

This is a good point, I know I’m town, so Luca is an easy easy push to misyeet to get me next

It's actually not a good point. If scum suddenly jumped on and hammered me out of nowhere this early in the day it would look scummy af. We're not in melo.

I'm pretty sure I'm being voted by at least one scum, in any case.

And you believe it‘s Oats. Pretend that I believe you are town. Why are you eliminating Naerys from the pool ?

[Vivax]

UNVOTE:

Maybe this will help you

[Vivax]

Luca might think we‘re playing along because we‘re from the same community but he also doesn‘t provide the thought that we might just be partnered mafia.

Why though ? That‘s the most logical explanation.
I can see the paranoia. Very familiar with it .
I can guarantee that Luca can convince me on why Oats is mafia if he can show me why.

[Vivax]

Technically if Luca was town and my reads were correct, mafia could push or hammer him.

But they don‘t. Do you think me/naerys/Oats have one mafia or are we the entirety of it ? Work from there.

This is a good point, I know I’m town, so Luca is an easy easy push to misyeet to get me next

It's actually not a good point. If scum suddenly jumped on and hammered me out of nowhere this early in the day it would look scummy af. We're not in melo.

I'm pretty sure I'm being voted by at least one scum, in any case.

And you believe it‘s Oats. Pretend that I believe you are town. Why are you eliminating Naerys from the pool ?

Who said I'm eliminating Naerys from the pool?

I'm at work now, so will respond to other points later.

You just had three votes on you: Of which you chose Oats to be the one to be the mafia.

If it was a community thing like you said, me and Oats would be equally suspicious, while Naerys could possibly be the odd townie one.

But you weren‘t considering all of us three equally at the same time.

[Vivax]

VOTE: gob
i actually wish to head this way
anybody up for this

I can +1 the vote but as a guess it‘s contraintuitive for me

VOTE: gob

[Vivax]

I don‘t see how gob is mafia trying to win the game over being fuck all not trying to solve it at all.

On the other hand I could see Oats being in charge of keeping the heat off DP while he‘s mia.

It‘s a bit unlikely for Grack to have this drastic turnaround on him if he‘s partnered with him ?

Maybe this could ease lots of doubts on Lucas, Ninjas and Dannflors side especially:

VOTE: DarthPunk

[Vivax]

Another example that Darth doesn't believe anything he says:

I've read through Dunn's Iso and there is literally nothing in there that makes me think he might be town. I actually thought I liked some of his posts just skimming through the game, but it really stands out how little he has done when reading his posts in isolation, mainly talking about theory and posting about things that aren't going to help progress the game in any meaningful way.

VOTE: Dunnstral

I'll get to some more Iso'ing soon.

This whole string of ISO post reeked of forgone conclusion Luca just went through and tried to find anything scummy to justify his vote instead of calling it what it is. A lurker vote.


I’m happy he spewed Dunn town tho.

It's time to go, Dunnstral is the way to go.

Im not getting off my reads just because you say so, I have legit reasons to yeet both of them.

theres at least 3 mafia :>
come to the dunn side

Fine.

UNVOTE: unvote

VOTE: Dunnstral

VOTE: Darth Punk

These two posts are a lot more damning than the case DP/OoO posted against Luca imo. DP is way too easily swayed to move his vote by OoO/Oats.

In fact, reading over these posts again, there's actually multiple layers of contradictions here.

There's the obvious one where DP is strongly scum reading Luca and says that the way Luca has tried to justify his vote on Dunnstral has spewed Dunnstral as town, but then he votes for Dunnstral anyway.

But there's also a more subtle contradiction. When voting for Dunnstral DP says that he has legit reasons to yeet Dunnstral, but in the previous post he was calling Luca scum for trying to justify his vote (on Dunnstral) when it's nothing more than a lurker yeet.

I think DP slipped because he wanted to stay buddied with Oats/OutofOrder.
VOTE: DarthPunk

The only thing that bugs me here is how you assume that DP would need to buddy Oats.

I think OoO is a fairly easy townread while Oats isn‘t. Oats is a bit like me in that he does what he wants, so he can easily come across as estranged no matter the alignment.

[Vivax]

Also blown away by the character change from Gob.

I kind of agree with his thoughts on Dannflor. Dannflor started out like he wanted to be the town's leader and he's been fading away from that.

Haven’t felt like gob changed ever.
Still a potato that looks scummy to anyone who thinks all town are tryhards.

Basically Dunnstral but he was more of an absolute null which looked like proper mafia because he still tried to look rational while wothholding information

[Vivax]

Gob and Ninja I think like to look scummy while Naerys plays wirhout trying to give clues

Dann also seems like he‘s holding back. Should be a first when it comes to pushing DP.

Oats engages a lot with ninja while he should know that it‘s going to be a perpetual confrontation.

I‘d say ooo, me and Hu Tao are trying properly by our standards.

[Vivax]

I don’t really see why scum darth punk has to go on Dunn there tbh. Like we are assuming Luca and hu Tao are both town in this situation right? He can just chill on Luca and let Dunn happen

You always seem to miss the point, and I'm more and more believing this is deliberate on your part.

The point is that Darth supposedly scumread me to the point that my Iso'ing and subsequent vote on Dunn spewed him as town, yet then he easily allows himself to be talked into voting Dunn shortly thereafter.

It's just one example of many showing that Darth does not actually mean or believe what he says. If he did, then he wouldn't have switched to Dunn so easily - it makes no sense if he truly believed I was scum and that my previous posts strongly implied that Dunn was therefore town.

It's also potentially scum-motivated as scum never ideally want their main push to be voted out D1 - if I was eliminated, my town flip instantly makes Darth look a little more suspect, and he is forced to reevaluate the game, which is difficult to do as scum when you have to fake your reads. Dunn being eliminated, and then continuing his push on me today, was always optimal for scum!Darth.

You just hard pushed Oats for almost the entirety of D2, how can you sound like you‘re backing off right at the beginning of the post just to initiate a suspicion arc on DP?

Sorry, but that doesn‘t look very believable.

[Vivax]

Hai.

UNVOTE:

I did nothing today.

Where's Dannflor ?

[Vivax]

In the game Werewolf (also known as Mafia), there isn't a single "best" way to detect a werewolf because the game heavily relies on deduction, psychology, and social dynamics. However, there are some strategies that players commonly use to identify werewolves:

Observation: Pay close attention to players' behavior during discussions and voting phases. Look for inconsistencies, nervousness, or overly defensive reactions, which might indicate that a player is a werewolf.

Questioning: Ask players targeted questions to gauge their reactions and responses. For example, you might ask them to explain their actions during previous rounds or to clarify their voting decisions.

Voting Patterns: Analyze voting patterns to identify suspicious players. If someone consistently votes against innocent villagers or seems to be influencing others to vote a certain way, they may be a werewolf.

Role Interaction: Consider how different roles interact with each other. For example, the Seer might have valuable information about certain players' roles, while the werewolves might try to eliminate the Seer early in the game to protect their identity.

Process of Elimination: Narrow down the list of potential werewolves by systematically eliminating innocent players. Focus on players who are contributing less to discussions or seem to be avoiding scrutiny.

Psychological Tactics: Use psychological tactics such as bluffing, misdirection, or provocation to elicit revealing reactions from other players. However, be mindful that these tactics can backfire if used excessively or without subtlety.

Team Dynamics: Pay attention to how players interact with each other and form alliances. Werewolves may subtly signal to each other or protect their teammates during discussions and voting.

Information Gathering: Gather as much information as possible throughout the game, including players' claims, voting records, and any special abilities or events that occur. This information can help you make informed decisions about who might be a werewolf.

Ultimately, there is no foolproof method for detecting werewolves in the game, as it heavily relies on deception and manipulation. Success often depends on your ability to read other players, analyze information, and adapt your strategy as the game progresses.

Serious question: Is this a ChatGPT post?

It looks like it.
I'm totally down to policy yeet people who could use such tools to write their posts.

[Vivax]

I don't like how Luca and Ninja kept trying to resort to bring up toxicity or the implication that our site players all play together.
That is why I will still try to yeet Luca.

It's a way of defending himself that takes away responsibility from what he posted and completely derails the talk from the post content to what are going to be discussions that have nothing to do with mafia.

Once that doesn't work, the two of them might be capable of kicking off discussions on why the earth is flat.

Anyway. Case in point, I had to talk about basically useless stuff because of that right there.
Look at Luca's D1 and his list with Roden as the only scum in it that I already found bad earlier and tell me he wasn't lacking in suspicion on too many players as opposed to strategically positioning his reads according to sentiment.

VOTE: Luca Blight

[Vivax]

Town: OOO, Hu Tao, Ninja
Lean town: Oats, gob, Dann, Naerys
Null:

Naerys

Mafia: Luca, Grack, Dp

This is still my view of the game. But DP's argument on why Naerys spewed herself town was good so I'm upgrading her to lean town.
I saw zero reasons for deviating from this save for a shower of arguments between DP and Luca.

In terms of people I could be wrong on being town, it could be Oats and Dann but currently I don't want to second guess my thoughts I formed after reviewing D1.

Luca and Ninja scum together seems impossible to me. They work together too obviously when it comes to derailing the thread.

[Vivax]

Let's do a 1v1, me vs Darth, and if one of us flips town then the other is automatically the next day's elimination. I have full confidence in my read, and Darth seemingly does too.

And if you both flip scum?

[Vivax]

Town: OOO, Hu Tao, Ninja
Lean town: Oats, gob, Dann, Naerys
Null:

Naerys

Mafia: Luca, Grack, Dp

This is still my view of the game. But DP's argument on why Naerys spewed herself town was good so I'm upgrading her to lean town.
I saw zero reasons for deviating from this save for a shower of arguments between DP and Luca.

In terms of people I could be wrong on being town, it could be Oats and Dann but currently I don't want to second guess my thoughts I formed after reviewing D1.

Luca and Ninja scum together seems impossible to me. They work together too obviously when it comes to derailing the thread.

I don't get how you have dp as scum but say his case on naerys being town was good enough to make you townread her?

Also you think this whole thing with Luca and Dp is scum theatre? Including the part where they want each other to be the next 2 elims?

Just cause he's mafia doesn't mean he can't present true and good arguments. He's even better at doing that when he knows the alignments.

There's a reason you ISO the flipped ones to look for spew.

If Naerys was just acting about not knowing that Roden claimed JK I'd be impressed.

[Vivax]

Town: OOO, Hu Tao, Ninja
Lean town: Oats, gob, Dann, Naerys
Null:

Naerys

Mafia: Luca, Grack, Dp

This is still my view of the game. But DP's argument on why Naerys spewed herself town was good so I'm upgrading her to lean town.
I saw zero reasons for deviating from this save for a shower of arguments between DP and Luca.

In terms of people I could be wrong on being town, it could be Oats and Dann but currently I don't want to second guess my thoughts I formed after reviewing D1.

Luca and Ninja scum together seems impossible to me. They work together too obviously when it comes to derailing the thread.

How is it reasonable for me to mafia with Luca here.

That's a problem for another day.
Maybe it's time to do another combined ISO of you two.

Dannflor should be caught up? He was one of the strongest proponents of a DP yeet on D1.

If Luca was town though why isn't he considering Dann, DP, Grack for example? That'd be my next guess if Luca was town I think. No steam against DP left from Dannflor for some reason.

[Vivax]

Spoiler: A typical frustration interaction with Oats

purpose of the post is to show everyone else why he scumreads Darth Punk.

What are you talking about, he literally gives no reasons why he scumreads darth punk?

purpose of the post is to show everyone else why he scumreads Darth Punk.

What are you talking about, he literally gives no reasons why he scumreads darth punk?

Read it again. Dann is using the quoted post as an example of why he thinks Darth Punk is scum.

Dann gives plenty of reasoning before and after that post as to why he scumreads Darth.

purpose of the post is to show everyone else why he scumreads Darth Punk.

What are you talking about, he literally gives no reasons why he scumreads darth punk?

Read it again. Dann is using the quoted post as an example of why he thinks Darth Punk is scum.

Dann gives plenty of reasoning before and after that post as to why he scumreads Darth.

There’s nothing scummy about accusing someone who literally 180ed with no new content of having made up reads

purpose of the post is to show everyone else why he scumreads Darth Punk.

What are you talking about, he literally gives no reasons why he scumreads darth punk?

Read it again. Dann is using the quoted post as an example of why he thinks Darth Punk is scum.

Dann gives plenty of reasoning before and after that post as to why he scumreads Darth.

There’s nothing scummy about accusing someone who literally 180ed with no new content of having made up reads

I didn't say Darth Punk was scummy in that post? My point was that Dann isn't scummy.

I didn't say Darth Punk was scummy in that post? My point was that Dann isn't scummy.

So dann said dp is scummy for doing something that you don’t think makes darth punk scummy but that makes dann town.

Explain how that makes sense.

1:

Oats snips 1 sentence out of my long post defending Dann. This is cherry-picking of the highest order. He also doesn't even bother to read the post I referenced correctly, because Dann was giving an example of why he thought Darth was scum, as I explain in my next post.

2:

Having completely missed the mark in his previous post, Oats then changes direction to why Darth Punk isn't scummy for scumreading Dann, which is irrelevant to the point I was making - I was defending Dann, not casing Punk at this point, and I'd explained everything already in my long defence post. This is an example of Oats moving the goalposts in a repeated attempt to win the argument, while not acknowledging any points that I've made.

3:

Oats asks for an explanation as to why I townread Dann even though I didn't at the time fully agree with his reasons for scumreading Darth, even though I had already explained it at length.

This is a strategy of circular arguing that achieves absolutely nothing, apart from making me lose the will to play the game.

The main point to consider here is how Oats isn't arguing in good faith - he's doing anything possible to disparage my points - even when he's clearly wrong, like in point 2, he moves the goalposts to another point that wasn't even relevant to what I was talking about, and then brings it back around to a circle by asking me to explain it again. Also, not once does he ever consider the matter from my point of view, or question anything that Darth has said, despite the obvious flaws in his case again Dann which I pointed out.

If I had continued repeating my explanations, do you think we would have got anywhere? No, other than confusing the thread and causing frustration, which is what scum want to achieve. The same with his argument against me supposedly bussing Roden - it went in circles, and nothing I say makes any difference to him. It smacks of having an agenda, because he asks plenty of questions but then never actually takes the answers into consideration.

The bolded in particular is something I don't understand from a townie pov.

Why is Oats so important to him that he has to pick him out of all people to constantly argue with ? Before he went to DP that is.
I don't feel obligated to even adress or interact with someone who makes me want to stop playing the game and if they're mafia, it's the others I have to convince and not Oats in this case.

So it reads bad as in that Luca is making up an obligation to argue with/about Oats that doesn't exist.

[Vivax]

The post in general screams of Luca being frustrated about being scumread by Oats in ways he tries hard to pick apart, but it suggests a high amount of defensiveness in that he only analyzes what makes Oats mafia based on what he's calling Luca scum for instead of looking at him as a whole.

[Vivax]

I can yeet gob for never trying to make sense.
But that‘s about my only reason, I think the derp is more often town but I can‘t know it for sure.

And Ninja it‘s not that Luca is the only one forcing himself through unpleasantries but rather that he acted as if Oats was his only concern there (maybe cause he‘s so obstinate which takes away all energy from scum.)

[Vivax]

Town: OOO, Hu Tao, Ninja

i think this is a pretty solid top town tier and as such I want to say vivax is also town

for other reasons too but i think this is a cute reason

Can you expand on the other reasons cause i am having trouble reading his slot with his wild scum teams.

Dann might take your place if he doesn‘t explain the gun to head.
Still don‘t see what would make Grack townish. He contributes nicely but that he also does as mafia. As town he‘s less performative from what I remember and doesn‘t shy away from the occasional shitpost.

[Vivax]

This game might turn me into a fan of Oats though.

Really liked how he made Dannflor dance on the last page.

[Vivax]

grack has also been going against the grain of late

i feel like he had a natural evaluation between D1 and D2

fair point about Vivax's reads not making sense as either alignment though

Town: OOO, Hu Tao, Ninja

i think this is a pretty solid top town tier and as such I want to say vivax is also town

for other reasons too but i think this is a cute reason

[Vivax]

we were talking about your scum reads there

DarthPunk spent great part of the entire day arguing with Luca and about Luca and now he settles for gob?
I know he may reply that he's trying to not get tunneled but he's treading into lack of conviction territory with this, which is already what I accused him for from reading his D1.

[Vivax]

Vivax why is gob town?

Because I think Luca fits more checkboxes for typical mafia.
Gob is just a sore thumb, not someone really blending in.

[Vivax]

Vivax why is gob town?

Because I think Luca fits more checkboxes for typical mafia.
Gob is just a sore thumb, not someone really blending in.

Thanks man, appreciate it.

VOTE: DarthPunk

Well you get what I mean...You don't really give a damn about playing like others might expect it from you.
Just in case it sounded worse than I intended it to.

[Vivax]

I think Dannfloor is mafia. They don't seem to be solving much at all.

Can you explain why you said this gob?

why do you think dann is not solving, do you think they are still mafia?

He could be. Feels very detached from the game right now, as if it bothered him to be here was my impression.
I sense a lack of an intention to communicate with the town.

Maybe It's

Grack/Luca/Dann
DP/Luca/Dann
DP/Luca/Grack

and so on.

[Vivax]

I think Dannfloor is mafia. They don't seem to be solving much at all.

Can you explain why you said this gob?

why do you think dann is not solving, do you think they are still mafia?

He could be. Feels very detached from the game right now, as if it bothered him to be here was my impression.
I sense a lack of an intention to communicate with the town.

Maybe It's

Grack/Luca/Dann
DP/Luca/Dann
DP/Luca/Grack

and so on.

Thats fine vivax. but you have different reasons to gob right, so lets interrogate gob's reasons, and you think he is town so clearly this would be a good opportunity for gob to prove it.

Vivax do you think it is a fair representation of Dann's play that he is not solving?

That's probably a blunt way of saying that he doesn't apply the same motivation to do what he was able to do during the last time gob saw him being town in a game with him.

If so, I trust the assessment especially when Dannflor doesn't bother to counter it.

[Vivax]

TOWN
Luca
Darth
Dannflor
Hu Tao
OOO
Vivax

SCUM
Grack
Gob
Naerys
Oats

That's where I am. Gonna spend my mafia time on deep diving the votes and reads lists of those four, see if anything sticks out, see what team makes sense, if any team of 3 emerges.

I feel pretty confident in those town reads and have basically no interest in pushing a yeet on any of those town reads today, I think. Something awfully drastic would need to happen. But my reads feel pretty converged into this state.

If anyone gives a hoot. lol

I do, at least it doesn‘t look like you‘ll be changing your opinion drastically 5 minutes on from that post. :p

[Vivax]

we were talking about your scum reads there

The associative ‚we‘ still leads me to believe Dann + DP scum isn‘t a thing.

Why the ‚we‘?

Is it Luca/Dann/Grack?

Look at that damn snack

[Vivax]

Yeah I guess it is. But a lazy omgussy one.
Maybe I just can't see gob being mafia while he is, don't let that stop you.
I have my vote where I want it.

[Vivax]

I don't put much stock in gob's ability to read me, the reasons i think he could be mafia have more to do with how he's not really

engaging with the central tensions of the game and has been primarily pushing Ninja who I think is town, not due to how he is or isn't reading me

I will admit I have lower motivation in this game due to a number of factors and have deliberately taken a bit of a step back, but that's something that could happen regardless of my alignment

Good post, I could see the bolded making him mafia.
Does he usually engage with the main construction grounds or tension lines, however you want to call them, when he is town?

[Vivax]

VOTE: oatsmaster

This vote is kinda scummy when you were just saying gob was mafia.

It’s like you‘re white knighting your scumread when Oats pushes them.

[Vivax]

See vivax this is why you move your vote around.

Yes masta OwO

[Vivax]

Sounds like the gob thing could have been bait from dann?

Yeh, it‘s like designed to lure people who think about the game or something.

I guess I‘m moving DP out of the mafia scum pool for today.

[Vivax]

2.6

DarthPunk (4) :

Grackaroni / Luca Blight / Hu Tao / gob

[Exe-2]

Gob (4) :

Naerys / outoforder / DarthPunk / Dannflor

[Exe-2]

Luca Blight (2) :

oatsmaster / Vivax

Oatsmaster (1) :

SuperfluousNinja

Not Voting (0):

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

This VC lol

Both DP and gob should be able to extract lots of info from this

[Vivax]

Like that Oats + me + ninja can hardly be teamed here.

And also that 1 between DP and gob is likely mafia.

Oats just made a post that suggested he could‘ve made Gob -1.

Then Dannflor voted him taking away from that opportunity.

Lots lf thoughts to be had.

[Vivax]

2.6

DarthPunk (4) :

Grackaroni / Luca Blight / Hu Tao / gob

[Exe-2]

Gob (4) :

Naerys / outoforder / DarthPunk / Dannflor

[Exe-2]

Luca Blight (2) :

oatsmaster / Vivax

Oatsmaster (1) :

SuperfluousNinja

Not Voting (0):

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

This VC lol

Both DP and gob should be able to extract lots of info from this

Well its my whole scum team on me pretty much + grack, classic scum v town wagon.

Do you TR Luca now ?

[Vivax]

Had a brain fart there and thought Luca was elsewhere.
At least I can bin the Grack + you scenario now. If he was bussing he would have unbussed by now.

Gob, what do you say?
Should I vote you?

[Vivax]

I think if gob is mafia that switch by Dann looks awful here.
Dann, Grack, gob with Dann instead of Luca? Is that it?

[Vivax]

If I thought from gob town world, he should be at OoO, Dann, DP or something. His DP vote was very convenient.

[Vivax]

VOTE: gob

L-2

I think I prefer to keep him at that for a while instead of L-1.
I'm compensating for Dannflors unvote.

[Vivax]

Thinking Oats is mafia is a bit silly in this wagon formation unless he's exactly teamed with DP

[Vivax]

Ergo Dannflor is mafia, cause he ignores that, votes Oats, but still should rather vote DP if he was town adhering to his stated beliefs.
The gob vote was a distancing attempt.

[Vivax]

Ergo Dannflor is mafia, cause he ignores that, votes Oats, but still should rather vote DP if he was town adhering to his stated beliefs.
The gob vote was a distancing attempt.

Do you think dann could fake the introspection and adjustment to his approach with the TL players this game?

I found that really townie to be honest.

I don't know about that but he should form the two following thoughts:

Are these wagons town on town?
He voted gob previously so clearly he doesn't think that.

If he thought gob was mafia, why vote Oats who was just coming around to vote gob (unless he assumed that was a setup for a bus)?

If Oats isn't bussing he can only be partnered with you, so if he thinks gob is the mafia being wagoned, how can he ever suspect Oats for prepping a vote on him?

[Vivax]

decided i felt better about my oats scum read than my gob scum read

and 3350 just felt gross to me

Err. But gob was getting pressure so if you still scumread gob, I still don't get the play of moving to oats there

The last few pages didn't affect your read on DP at all?

[Vivax]

Dann as third wagon or counterwagon to gob would be interesting now.

Oats and Hu Tao like to tunnel each other, at least they can't be a team either.
HT comes off as townier to me though. Oats a bit too guilt assuming with that recent remark about her recent lack of activity for my taste.

[Vivax]

Dann as third wagon or counterwagon to gob would be interesting now.

Oats and Hu Tao like to tunnel each other, at least they can't be a team either.
HT comes off as townier to me though. Oats a bit too guilt assuming with that recent remark about her recent lack of activity for my taste.

Why would the Dann wagon be interesting here?

For one we never got one. And because his Oats vote needs a much better explanation than that.

I‘d like him to deduce stuff from the wagon formation. But I‘m guessing that‘ll have to wait.

I‘m fine with the wagons for info purposes but I like the DP one a lot less now.

[Vivax]

UNVOTE:

I prefer another day where we can discuss both of them at E-2.

Many asleep rn

[Vivax]

Ergo Dannflor is mafia, cause he ignores that, votes Oats, but still should rather vote DP if he was town adhering to his stated beliefs.
The gob vote was a distancing attempt.

Do you think dann could fake the introspection and adjustment to his approach with the TL players this game?

I found that really townie to be honest.

I don't know about that but he should form the two following thoughts:

Are these wagons town on town?
He voted gob previously so clearly he doesn't think that.

If he thought gob was mafia, why vote Oats who was just coming around to vote gob (unless he assumed that was a setup for a bus)?

If Oats isn't bussing he can only be partnered with you, so if he thinks gob is the mafia being wagoned, how can he ever suspect Oats for prepping a vote on him?

I don't get this way of looking at the game at all. You can hold two separate scumreads on the two main wagons and change your mind based on subsequent posts. I don't get your point about oats only being able to be partnered with Darth, either. You seem to be operating from the perspective than Gob is definitely scum, even though you townread him not too long ago?

I operated from both perspectives as evidenced by me also trying to take gob's perspective on who he should scumread if he was analyzing both wagons knowing he was town and believing that DP was mafia.

What is so hard to understand ?
If me and Oats and Superfluousninja had at least two mafia we would both be working to hammer the town of the two wagons instead of delaying.

Then you show up and randomly say me and Oats can be mafia together because you haven't put a shred of decent analysis into the wagon formation. That's another reason for me to be unable to townread you.

[Vivax]

Thinking Oats is mafia is a bit silly in this wagon formation unless he's exactly teamed with DP

Ergo Dannflor is mafia, cause he ignores that, votes Oats, but still should rather vote DP if he was town adhering to his stated beliefs.
The gob vote was a distancing attempt.

Or maybe Vivax is scum with oats.

None of the above analysis makes sense to me, especially the last part when Dann clearly expressed his suspicion of oats prior to this.

You can't be town and in good faith argue that two mafias didn't at least attempt to hammer the townie one of DP and gob.

Maybe I should just stick with DP/Grack/Luca after all.

[Vivax]

I see you writing a lot but not much substance behind it when you could just look at the wagons and draw conclusions in a more rational way.

Instead you're back to claims like Oats pocketing TL buddies and all that jazz which is a cheap way of sowing distrust. Most of your arguments are based on something not making sense to you and there's massive amounts of purely aesthetic floof.

VOTE: Luca Blight

[Vivax]

Ergo Dannflor is mafia, cause he ignores that, votes Oats, but still should rather vote DP if he was town adhering to his stated beliefs.
The gob vote was a distancing attempt.

Do you think dann could fake the introspection and adjustment to his approach with the TL players this game?

I found that really townie to be honest.

I don't know about that but he should form the two following thoughts:

Are these wagons town on town?
He voted gob previously so clearly he doesn't think that.

If he thought gob was mafia, why vote Oats who was just coming around to vote gob (unless he assumed that was a setup for a bus)?

If Oats isn't bussing he can only be partnered with you, so if he thinks gob is the mafia being wagoned, how can he ever suspect Oats for prepping a vote on him?

I don't get this way of looking at the game at all. You can hold two separate scumreads on the two main wagons and change your mind based on subsequent posts. I don't get your point about oats only being able to be partnered with Darth, either. You seem to be operating from the perspective than Gob is definitely scum, even though you townread him not too long ago?

I operated from both perspectives as evidenced by me also trying to take gob's perspective on who he should scumread if he was analyzing both wagons knowing he was town and believing that DP was mafia.

What is so hard to understand ?
If me and Oats and Superfluousninja had at least two mafia we would both be working to hammer the town of the two wagons instead of delaying.

Then you show up and randomly say me and Oats can be mafia together because you haven't put a shred of decent analysis into the wagon formation. That's another reason for me to be unable to townread you.

Mafia isn't so black and white that you can say 'when the wagons are like this, scum do this', unless it's melo and scum can literally win the game by quick hammering. Until that point anything is possible, and pre-flip wagon analysis is quite often pointless.

The fact you're so aware of the wagons yourself means that if you were scum, you would play in a way that you could manipulate the wagons to portray yourself or your buddies as being town with such reasoning.

Ah the good old perpetual wifom approach.
If i were scum, do you think I'd position myself to vote gob instead of DP when I started the day portraying DP as mafia?

Or were those genuine doubts?

Because I am tempted to move DP back into mafia territory when I read your posts and see how quickly you decided to townread him.

Tell me, what is gob doing that looks like he

doesn't

want to be eliminated?

[Vivax]

I see you writing a lot but not much substance behind it when you could just look at the wagons and draw conclusions in a more rational way.

Instead you're back to claims like Oats pocketing TL buddies and all that jazz which is a cheap way of sowing distrust. Most of your arguments are based on something not making sense to you and there's massive amounts of purely aesthetic floof.

VOTE: Luca Blight

Yes, I've already observed the pattern of you voting me every time I show suspicion of you.

You mean I've been wanting to yeet you for almost the entire duration of the game?
You are suggesting me and Oats could be a team that's the reason I just voted for you again.

[Vivax]

I see you writing a lot but not much substance behind it when you could just look at the wagons and draw conclusions in a more rational way.

Instead you're back to claims like Oats pocketing TL buddies and all that jazz which is a cheap way of sowing distrust. Most of your arguments are based on something not making sense to you and there's massive amounts of purely aesthetic floof.

VOTE: Luca Blight

Yes, I've already observed the pattern of you voting me every time I show suspicion of you.

You mean I've been wanting to yeet you for almost the entire duration of the game?
You are suggesting me and Oats could be a team that's the reason I just voted for you again.

Well, from my perspective you could be a team. And you've only wanted to yeet me since I first started doubting you - you never scumread me at all for most of D1.

You act all offended by my suggestion of you being scum with oats when you throw out team suggestions willy-nilly, even completely ridiculous ones that feature both me and Darth as scum.

I'm not offended, mostly annoyed. I think you are trying to make the game more complex than it is, and I hate having to repeat myself constantly.

If you have DP and gob at -2 respectively and three people off wagon that don't play like they are associated to eliminate one of the options, you suggesting two of those to be scum together is just baseless tinfoil if you're town, and sloppy if you're mafia.

I don't think you are crazy, so I think you are mafia.

[Vivax]

Spoiler:

Ergo Dannflor is mafia, cause he ignores that, votes Oats, but still should rather vote DP if he was town adhering to his stated beliefs.
The gob vote was a distancing attempt.

Do you think dann could fake the introspection and adjustment to his approach with the TL players this game?

I found that really townie to be honest.

I don't know about that but he should form the two following thoughts:

Are these wagons town on town?
He voted gob previously so clearly he doesn't think that.

If he thought gob was mafia, why vote Oats who was just coming around to vote gob (unless he assumed that was a setup for a bus)?

If Oats isn't bussing he can only be partnered with you, so if he thinks gob is the mafia being wagoned, how can he ever suspect Oats for prepping a vote on him?

I don't get this way of looking at the game at all. You can hold two separate scumreads on the two main wagons and change your mind based on subsequent posts. I don't get your point about oats only being able to be partnered with Darth, either. You seem to be operating from the perspective than Gob is definitely scum, even though you townread him not too long ago?

I operated from both perspectives as evidenced by me also trying to take gob's perspective on who he should scumread if he was analyzing both wagons knowing he was town and believing that DP was mafia.

What is so hard to understand ?
If me and Oats and Superfluousninja had at least two mafia we would both be working to hammer the town of the two wagons instead of delaying.

Then you show up and randomly say me and Oats can be mafia together because you haven't put a shred of decent analysis into the wagon formation. That's another reason for me to be unable to townread you.

Mafia isn't so black and white that you can say 'when the wagons are like this, scum do this', unless it's melo and scum can literally win the game by quick hammering. Until that point anything is possible, and pre-flip wagon analysis is quite often pointless.

The fact you're so aware of the wagons yourself means that if you were scum, you would play in a way that you could manipulate the wagons to portray yourself or your buddies as being town with such reasoning.

Ah the good old perpetual wifom approach.
If i were scum, do you think I'd position myself to vote gob instead of DP when I started the day portraying DP as mafia?

Or were those genuine doubts?

Because I am tempted to move DP back into mafia territory when I read your posts and see how quickly you decided to townread him.

Tell me, what is gob doing that looks like he

doesn't

want to be eliminated?

You seem to be accusing me of wifom, and then using wifom yourself in your every next sentence.

Your question about Gob is strange and seemingly random. Why are you asking me this?

You can construct a lot as WIFOM but good luck saying that I deliberately choose a harder path for myself if I'm mafia.
We had gob at -1 with Hu Tao and thread support, you might as well claim scum if you think I am.

[Vivax]

I see you writing a lot but not much substance behind it when you could just look at the wagons and draw conclusions in a more rational way.

Instead you're back to claims like Oats pocketing TL buddies and all that jazz which is a cheap way of sowing distrust. Most of your arguments are based on something not making sense to you and there's massive amounts of purely aesthetic floof.

VOTE: Luca Blight

Yes, I've already observed the pattern of you voting me every time I show suspicion of you.

You mean I've been wanting to yeet you for almost the entire duration of the game?
You are suggesting me and Oats could be a team that's the reason I just voted for you again.

Well, from my perspective you could be a team. And you've only wanted to yeet me since I first started doubting you - you never scumread me at all for most of D1.

You act all offended by my suggestion of you being scum with oats when you throw out team suggestions willy-nilly, even completely ridiculous ones that feature both me and Darth as scum.

I'm not offended, mostly annoyed. I think you are trying to make the game more complex than it is, and I hate having to repeat myself constantly.

If you have DP and gob at -2 respectively and three people off wagon that don't play like they are associated to eliminate one of the options, you suggesting two of those to be scum together is just baseless tinfoil if you're town, and sloppy if you're mafia.

I don't think you are crazy, so I think you are mafia.

According to oats, you must be scum because you are annoyed at someone you scumread.

Are you suggesting that if you and oats were scum you would just jump on and hammer whoever the leading town wagon is? It's overly black and white, simplistic view of the game. Mafia deliberately play and vote in a way that is difficult for town to predict, otherwise the game would be easily solved just by looking at wagon associations every time when you reach the later days of the game.

You and DP got off each other too quickly.
I'm sure you are scum. The vote stays. I rest my case.

[Vivax]

Sometimes I wonder if Luca is a chatbot from how he writes

[Vivax]

It‘s like ChatGPT and Jesse Pinkman had a kid and named him Luca

[Vivax]

Great now Dr. Who consorts with the daleks I have seen it all

[Vivax]

DP/Luca/Dann to the graaaaave

[Vivax]

Not Dann, Grack

[Vivax]

My gf is so amazing that she got flowers from a homeless guy today

[Vivax]

me and luca? sure i can see how you could think that

how on earth do i or luca make sense teamed with DP

You don‘t. I already nailed all the mafia at the beginning of the day.

Now I just wait until the game ends while I shitposz

[Vivax]

My gf is so amazing that she got flowers from a homeless guy today

That was me. I went undercover to rizz her up and throw you off your game.

Try a baseball bat next time she liked those before I made her all soft and shit

[Vivax]

The main thing I'm bothered about by Luca is that he hasn't really pushed anything himself and doesn't have any strong scum reads outside of the consensus Roden

into...

okay that's two other people beside DP who said my case on DP is bad

I will sleep on it and reconsider

as a side note I don't really vibe with the Luca case overall, I feel like it largely comes down to him not being as present and being more calm than the average player here

into, lets vote for Naerys.

Guy is mafia. Clearly.

Possible town explanation is that he also actively counters the majority’s thinking, maybe unconsciously.

Otherwise it‘s like he described the current concerns about Luca in en earlier post and then decided to defend him instead while dismissing said former arguments.

I though Luca to be townie earlier on for his calm demeanor as well but that changed when I looked at how he isolated Roden according to thread sentiment and TR a lot of players.

The complacency about not having formed a clear TR on Dunn, Hu and Naerys sticks out as opportunistic. It‘s like the post communicated ‚hey it‘s okay I think everyone suspecting Roden can be town. Let‘s do it‘

Given the overall contributions I‘d prefer to prioritize a Luca lim first, but I am open to Dann in case the majority requires it (which is to say I‘d hammer if you want to do that first).

Having caught up, I'm starting to town-lean Vivax again based on his recent posts. I just think if he's scum then he's making life unnecessarily difficult for himself.

I have a soft town-lean on Gob, which perhaps I will elaborate on earlier.

Dann and ninja are still clearly town
Outoforder is most probably town too
I think Oats and Darth punk are town, but am less confident
Then comes Gob and Dunn, who are soft Town-leans. Maybe Grackaroni too, but I need to see more.

The only clear scumread I have right now is Roden. The other slots haven't left much of an impression on me yet.

It looks like I'm confirmed town if he thinks I have outed myself as scum over the last few pages and Roden was his only clear scumread here during D1.

[Vivax]

Doctors are just drug dealers and serial killers with a diploma tbh

[Vivax]

I havent read and do not plan on reading anything recent. Vote me if you must.

How is this town?

It's not scum either though.
He's like a troll version of Dunnstral.

I like that you correctly pointed out my thought sequence and constant activity. I won TL mafia LVIII with a 4 page filter. Feeling lost now though, and it's an important elimination.

Should we reconsider Ninja perhaps?
The massive post amount and argumentativeness is a good cover for mafia. I struggle to see how she can be so upbeat while changing opinion very often and erratically imo.

I'm looking for more that feel like they're running around like headless chickens, they are likely town like me.

[Vivax]

If Luca is town she has blatantly been living in his pocket too. Everytime I go up against him she's there to lend him a hand.

[Vivax]

Oh I am interested in the alignment; I'm just not interested in analysis of Naerys herself

, because there's just not enough to chew on. Whatever tools I want to use to sort someone out, I can't really use those at all on Naerys. You realize it takes like 5 minutes to read through her ISO?

My real life job is biostatistician, and in my profession, we often caution against even conducting a statistical test on anything with too little data. A conclusion based on small sample size is quite dangerous.

Can you explain this a bit more please?

I want to know what Naerys is, whether she's scum or town. I just don't think a read of her iso is going to help me figure that out, because she just hasn't said or done enough for me to ascertain that. I need to do it by process of elimination with the others.

But she literally -did- do something that will help you ascertain her alignment, that you could find if you read her ISO.

Some

thing

. Not some

things

. Right? That's the problem, Darth. I assume you're referring to the slip-up with not knowing about Roden, and I don't see that as an alignment-indicative thing, to be honest. It could just as easily be scum playing dumb.

When drug A beats drug B once, you don't know if that was just a coincidence. When drug A beats drug B 99 times out of 100, then you're a lot more certain.

See, this is intending to make Darth doubt his read without presenting an alternative.
She's busy invalidating reads instead of pushing who she thinks is scum. It's manipulative.

Why is Naerys even mafia to her? Post count?

[Vivax]

Oh I am interested in the alignment; I'm just not interested in analysis of Naerys herself, because there's just not enough to chew on. Whatever tools I want to use to sort someone out, I can't really use those at all on Naerys. You realize it takes like 5 minutes to read through her ISO?

My real life job is biostatistician, and in my profession, we often caution against even conducting a statistical test on anything with too little data. A conclusion based on small sample size is quite dangerous.

Thats a cool job. have you written any papers?

Mafia is not that though, we need to be able to infer probable truths from small pieces of information.

I do know her iso is really small, that is why it bothers me that you didn't

1.) read it when she was in your POE
and
2.) Notice what I did and rule her out from being mafia at least from the time being, or at least consider and dismiss it as being non-indicative of alignment.

Well, you're just going to have to be bothered, then. You don't think small sample size conclusions apply to games like these. I do.

And arguing that there isn't enough data in this game? Please! There's TOO MUCH data in this game, ESPECIALLY on this site when we can talk for days and days and days. The challenge in this game is to make sense of the excess of data, for heaven's sake.

How long are days usually on your home site?

Odd question. What do you hope to achieve with it?

[Vivax]

Oh I am interested in the alignment; I'm just not interested in analysis of Naerys herself, because there's just not enough to chew on. Whatever tools I want to use to sort someone out, I can't really use those at all on Naerys. You realize it takes like 5 minutes to read through her ISO?

My real life job is biostatistician, and in my profession, we often caution against even conducting a statistical test on anything with too little data. A conclusion based on small sample size is quite dangerous.

Thats a cool job. have you written any papers?

Mafia is not that though, we need to be able to infer probable truths from small pieces of information.

I do know her iso is really small, that is why it bothers me that you didn't

1.) read it when she was in your POE
and
2.) Notice what I did and rule her out from being mafia at least from the time being, or at least consider and dismiss it as being non-indicative of alignment.

Well, you're just going to have to be bothered, then. You don't think small sample size conclusions apply to games like these. I do.

And arguing that there isn't enough data in this game? Please! There's TOO MUCH data in this game, ESPECIALLY on this site when we can talk for days and days and days. The challenge in this game is to make sense of the excess of data, for heaven's sake.

How long are days usually on your home site?

Odd question. What do you hope to achieve with it?

How is it an odd question? I'm just curious

Every mafia site aside from this one I know of has two day - dayphases followed by a one day - nightphase.
Found it odd cause it looked a bit like you were trying to be superficially helpful.
Why was approximately the entire game even townreading Ninja? I forgot.

[Vivax]

Oh I am interested in the alignment; I'm just not interested in analysis of Naerys herself

, because there's just not enough to chew on. Whatever tools I want to use to sort someone out, I can't really use those at all on Naerys. You realize it takes like 5 minutes to read through her ISO?

My real life job is biostatistician, and in my profession, we often caution against even conducting a statistical test on anything with too little data. A conclusion based on small sample size is quite dangerous.

Can you explain this a bit more please?

I want to know what Naerys is, whether she's scum or town. I just don't think a read of her iso is going to help me figure that out, because she just hasn't said or done enough for me to ascertain that. I need to do it by process of elimination with the others.

Did you find the fancy me/Oats/gob combination by the process of elimination that you said you intended to use for naerys without being able to eliminate Naerys?

[Vivax]

She's busy invalidating reads...

Why was approximately the entire game even townreading Ninja? I forgot.

Pot, meet kettle.

Not quite, you were busy invalidating DPs read without wanting to push Naerys. I am busy invalidating the reads on you because I want to push you.

Statistics you

[Vivax]

say?

[Vivax]

At any rate, this is fascinating to watch. Darth puts some heat on a townie, and immediately you see a ramp up of pressure from Vivax and Oats. Really makes you think.

Slip?

I think it could be a covert cheating accusation. I didn't see an intention from Darth to push her at all though, so maybe she's projecting.

I think I might need to revisit Hu Tao as well. Way too comfortable in this environment.

[Vivax]

I see you writing a lot but not much substance behind it when you could just look at the wagons and draw conclusions in a more rational way.

Instead you're back to claims like Oats pocketing TL buddies and all that jazz which is a cheap way of sowing distrust. Most of your arguments are based on something not making sense to you and there's massive amounts of purely aesthetic floof.

VOTE: Luca Blight

Okay so I'm confused by this vote. Weren't you the one saying that pressure on gob was important? But you unvote because you want the people that are asleep to chime in on him when I put gob at e-1? And then you vote Luca once he starts going for oats? Not this seems like you're soft defending oats for a second time when at first I thought it was just because of Dann laying off the gob pressure

I assume you meant this?

We have seen what pressure on gob does by now. Nothing. He doesn't care if he lives or dies but occasionally he screams don't kill me. I don't trust him, but I don't scumread him either. He should have a base survival instinct as scum and I'm afraid he's just Dunnstral 2.0.

I unvoted because I didn't want a quickhammer on him. Oats I think is townie, first because he seems to be as confused as I feel and second because he didn't just play around a hammer on either gob or Dp. I think he actually IS trying to find mafia.

[Vivax]

New list shaping up in my head is Hu Tao/Ninja and...???

The pairing would make sense even if we consider what Hu Tao called me scum for on D1 which was in support of Ninja pushing me.

[Vivax]

"would a town just actively not participate in this game, unapologetically".

Isn't that why we yeeted town Dunnstral?

[Vivax]

1.) Didn't you agree it was less likely to come from mafia before?

Yep. Just like how Drug A can absolutely be better than Drug B in that one instance.

So are you drawing a conclusion from it or not, it seems like you are just backtracking your previous statements.

If I can just say something and then I later can say, yes but anything can be true 1 time out of 100 thenI literally aren't saying anything and don't have to be accountable for anything.

you can see the problem approaching the game like this right?

If she manages to pull up a four field matrix that solves the game using relative risk and odds ratios I'll be impressed.
Otherwise it's just floof

[Vivax]

I havent read and do not plan on reading anything recent. Vote me if you must.

Gob how do you find mafia as town?

vca usually

So what are your thoughts on the game based on the wagons between you and I both at e-2 and then you and oats at e-2

Im moreso into solving like day 1. Bia pools.

Anyway right now to be frank; i think we need to lim some of these TL players. No offense tk you guys, but all i see is anti-town play and honestly unfun ways of communicating.
Oatsmaster i think is town, pretty strongly too. The way things have went and how against everyone he has been, at every corner, doesnt seem like mafia to me. The TL players can correct me if that is his meta. But i feel like his tone throughout the entire game has been inconsistent.

But im okay with voting him because he has been a nusanxe alongside Luca, Ninja, and some other people im forgetting.

Again no offense to any of ya’ll. We cant all get along.

So you want to lim your town read?

We can lim you instead, i would prefer that

Then why aren't you trying harder to do that?

well currently im having diarrhea cause… either i ate undercooked chicken or the edible i had earlier. Not sure which.

As stated before, i do want to play this game but its not that fun with Ninja, Oats, you to a certain extent, Etc. etc.

UNVOTE THIS MAN, HE HAS DIARRHEA

[Vivax]

And can you please not mock me for my profession Vivax, thanks.

What do you mean, mock?
I just disagree with your reasoning and am myself familiar with a few concepts.
You can't use statistical concepts to discredit 100% of the time but 1% of the time to attempt to solve like when you sorted by postcount.

[Vivax]

Well, technically 99% and 1%, but I'm not here to discuss maths, just mafs.
I'll have a look at the wagons pretending Hu + Ninja are both mafia and go from there.

[Vivax]

2.6

DarthPunk (4) :

Grackaroni / Luca Blight / Hu Tao / gob

[Exe-2]

Gob (4) :

Naerys / outoforder / DarthPunk / Dannflor

[Exe-2]

Luca Blight (2) :

oatsmaster / Vivax

Oatsmaster (1) :

SuperfluousNinja

Not Voting (0):

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

2.7

Gob (4) :

Naerys / outoforder / DarthPunk / Hu Tao

[Exe-2]

Oatsmaster (3) :

SuperfluousNinja / Dannflor / Luca Blight

[Exe-3]

Luca Blight (1) :

oatsmaster

DarthPunk (1) :

gob

Not Voting (2):

Vivax / Grackaroni

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

2.8

Gob (4) :

Naerys / outoforder / DarthPunk / Hu Tao

[Exe-2]

Oatsmaster (4) :

SuperfluousNinja / Dannflor / Luca Blight / gob

[Exe-2]

Luca Blight (2) :

oatsmaster / Vivax

Not Voting (1):

Grackaroni

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

Hu Tao and ninja were on different wagons during both Oats v gob as well as Darth vs gob.

Neither ever voted Luca while Hu Tao voted Darth at some point.

Maybe both partnered with Luca if scum. Slight change of being partnered with DP.

[Vivax]

If she manages to pull up a four field matrix that solves the game using relative risk and odds ratios I'll be impressed.
Otherwise it's just floof

Like think of it this way. Imagine a violin player told you that they apply things they've learned while playing the violin to other things in their life, in unexpected ways. A violin player could say that their playing has taught them how to interact with people, how to view the world around them, how to handle their stress. And then imagine some guy comes in with "lol what, so they just bust out Vivaldi's Concerto No. 2 every time they meet someone?" People find ways to implement their profession into the way they see the world and they integrate with one another a lot more often than you might think. It's not crazy.

I have sympathy with that. But am I not allowed to say that you were using your profession to hinder DP from having a read on Naerys instead of using it even just figuratively to solve the game for yourself?

Let's talk again about Hu Tao agreeing with a post of yours that called her mafia along with me in order for her to vote me together with you.
Where do you place the chances at of that coming from town? It was a pretty big slip after all.

[Vivax]

I guess I just took issue with the way you said it. The whole "I bet she comes in with this overly complex thing to solve a basic problem" suggests that I have no idea how to approach simple problems, that I just overcomplicate everything.

It's your job if you're mafia though.
I think Luca and you both are good at doing that. Writing a lot that takes effort to decipher and sift through while concealing intentions.
In any case, well played if so. I want to reiterate that I have no personal issue with you whatsoever, but I am second guessing my town read of you because the game still doesn't make sense to me.

[Vivax]

Like yes, I read the tone behind "I bet she uses [whatever the fuck] matrices and odds ratios and relative risks to solve the problem" can very easily be interpreted as making a mockery of those sorts of things.

If you prefer the mathematical approach as you say, I have to see you going over the most mathematical thing in this game for you to draw conclusions from: The votecounts. Yet.

[Vivax]

Luca emerges from his mafia harem, squints his eyes at the bright sunlight and places a wall of words in front of the entrance before going to work to feed his two hungry mob wives

[Vivax]

Ir gob is mafia here, his mates could as well make this Luca vs him at 4 votes.

We had Gob + Dp and now Gob + Oats.

Coincidentially, Ninja and Luca began suggesting me and Oats being partnered afterwards. And both aren‘t voting gob.

[Vivax]

Do you see my point ? If me and Oats are the reason that mafia gob lim is being delayed, they are going to assume we‘d look bad if gob flips red so they already positioned their reads for after that event due to tmi.

The only way we can disprove it is if me and Oats hammer him together and he actually flips red.

[Vivax]

Ir gob is mafia here, his mates could as well make this Luca vs him at 4 votes.

We had Gob + Dp and now Gob + Oats.

Coincidentially, Ninja and Luca began suggesting me and Oats being partnered afterwards. And both aren‘t voting gob.

Both his mates are already voting me.

Then why aren't you voting gob?

[Vivax]

Or why did we, his mates, not go for DP when we had the chance?

[Vivax]

Even if oats and Gob are partners, which does seems likely, oats is more likely to slip away from being eliminated later in the game than Gob, and independently I'm more sure of oats being scum.

There are other reasons too, which probably don't need to be spelled out.

So the reason you aren't yeeting gob instead of Oats is because you want a hero yeet and a medal?
I think I've heard enough for today. We can proceed.

VOTE: gob L-1

[Vivax]

Last one cleans the diarrhea from the scaffolds

[Vivax]

Vivax really scummed it up around the p139/p140 mark. He made a load of stuff up that made no sense about the wagons, and when he realised no-one was buying it just said me and Darth are scum and slunk off, ignoring the points I made, as well as Ninja's relevant question as to why he completed ignored her Dunn wagon analysis if he's such a proponent of wagon analysis.

That doesn‘t make me mafia, but describing it like that just makes you more like Holyflare.

It‘s like you can only lazer one at a time and when you do, you always find something scummy to bring up. Guess what??? Town doesn‘t always make sense either or we could aswell just bin every single player.

It isn‘t even about inconsistencies it‘s about reading the intentions behind posts.

[Vivax]

In this case I believe I have found your intention to propose me and Oats as mafia because gob is mafia after all and we have been hanging out off wagon for a while.

And I found Ninjas intention to keep DP from being sure about his reads which is why I went after her when she was trying to make him doubt his Naerys read.

So you pre empted his scum flip and prepared your reads accordingly for the moment after that.
Unless he's town of course.

[Vivax]

What you can't explain is why Oats didn't vote DP at -2 with me hammering in succession if I had prepared a good narrative for myself already.

You'll just say it's to position ourselves as more townie by delaying and then actually getting Gob yeeted? lol

We'd have saved gob that way.

[Vivax]

What you can't explain is why Oats didn't vote DP at -2 with me hammering in succession if I had prepared a good narrative for myself already.

You'll just say it's to position ourselves as more townie by delaying and then actually getting Gob yeeted? lol

We'd have saved gob that way.

I have explained it, here:

Or why did we, his mates, not go for DP when we had the chance?

How can oats go for Darth when he's been brown-nosing him the whole game?

So now it's your turn to explain how oats can get away with suddenly voting Darth when he's been unequivocally on his side the entire game?

I'm sure he could have made something up if he's teamed with gob like you say.
Instead he backed himself into not saving his teammate just to please someone he could have yeeted?

You should be more sure that I was scum over Oats then.

[Vivax]

To add evidence to rayn's post:

I feel like if he was town, he would have claimed, period.

Even if his role sucks, what can he do about that? Claiming anything else as town has got to be a terrible idea, like if he did claim a power role, someone else may speak up and out themselves, and then Dunn dies anyway. Kinda just have to accept that the gods of mafia fucked you over if you're vanilla town in this instance.

Even if gob is a troll town, him voting Dunnstral and being familiar with him is a plus. And I think it's a serious vote.

When did they say this?

Oh okay, the second half of this quote is Vivax's vote, and pointing out that Dunnstral is -1 and bringing up that a role claim might be good here. So Dunnstral is for sure aware.....

Dunnstral, just to make sure, you're aware that you are at -1 and that people are expecting a role claim here?

If you're really avoiding the issue then I'm inclined to hammer here.

[Vivax]

I'm good with a hammer at any point. Nothing else I want to talk about today.

There is simply no way someone says this and after the flip says "all the people who voted for Dunn late have a high chance of being mafia".

Yeh. She shared the Dunnstral suspicion back in Day 1 but retrospectively now argues that only mafia could do that.

VOTE: SuperfluousNinja

[Vivax]

Now we wait until someone says that this is a toxic wagon instead of that being the actual reason.

BRACE FOR IMPACT

[Vivax]

You have no TOWN reason to doubt the purity of a wagon that you declared to be a part of for the same reasons as the others.

You‘d remember why he got limmed for the same reasons you believed in

[Vivax]

For me, the only red flag about Ninja was her sudden willingness to vote me despite townreading me.

Backtrack initiated, cold feet detected

[Vivax]

Luca hasn‘t even properly read the post ooo quoted I think.

She said one two three mafia could be on it. Picked out three names (DP, Oats, OoO) and wrote about them.

That‘s not looking suspiciously at a wagon you were supporting, that‘s saying only mafia would have yeeted Dunn.

[Vivax]

That's not correct and makes no sense, as town have to be on the wagon for it to go through in the first place.

Thanks for proving the point.
Why isn‘t that what you told SN when she went to look for three mafias on it ?

[Vivax]

this is boring

why is this borinng? you have suspected Ninja since from when i remember?

too many words not enough action.

You won‘t vote SN ?

[Vivax]

Otherwise, look at just how fast that Dunnstral wagon grew at the end there. The final wagon started on page 92, then it grew into a really serious one on page 95, and the day was over on page 97. I don't think it's crazy to think that the final vote on Dunnstral includes at least one scum, if not two, if not all three... That group is Gob / Luca / OOO / Darth / Oats / Vivax / Dannflor.

Last people to vote for Dunnstrall MUST absolutely have mafia in them, but i also wanted to hammer all the time i was in thread while Dann did it!!!

simply just scum post.

Luca read this post please.
Everything else doesn‘t even need to be said.

It‘s worded as if Dunn was oh so townie in hindsight. He wasn‘t.

[Vivax]

If it grew fast why does it surprise her when she would have hammered ?

Fake emotion

[Vivax]

By now I believe most are simply afraid to vote ninja and I‘d like to find out why.

There‘s a few who called her scummy a few times and instantly backed off (Luca, Dann, gob to a lesser extent).

Blink twice if you are blackmailed.

[Vivax]

I just woke up.

If you see this before you go can you explain the backflip on my lim by scum!ninja.

It’s basically the point I can’t get past cause it makes no sense as mafia to not just try and yeet me there.

Just a hunch but some prefer to simply be in control and that‘s their agenda.

[Vivax]

A lot of the playerbase seems protective of ninja, maybe they know something we don‘t.

I also see things I don‘t want to mention.

[Vivax]

How close are we to yeeting someone?

The ride never ends !

[Vivax]

How close are we to yeeting someone?

Wait you didn‘t even vote.

[Vivax]

How close are we to yeeting someone?

Wait you didn‘t even vote.

That's why I'm asking lol.

What‘s your current read on Hu Tao and Naerys ?

UNVOTE:

[Vivax]

I ate half a gorilla yesterday and now I have cholera

[Vivax]

Long workday ahead today.
Luca imo would be my top pick.
I prefer going gob over Oats.

I suggest he prepares a narrative for when either of gob/Oats flips town. I believe Oats is town. Gob id even know anymore, plays like a jester so he can be limmed.

VOTE: Gob

Too early to do anything with ninja here. Dannflor‘s uninvolvement in general has been noted.

[Vivax]

I forgot that gob claimed tracker. I hate mornings.

VOTE: Luca Blight

He didn‘t.

[Vivax]

Do you see my point ? If me and Oats are the reason that mafia gob lim is being delayed, they are going to assume we‘d look bad if gob flips red so they already positioned their reads for after that event due to tmi.

The only way we can disprove it is if me and Oats hammer him together and he actually flips red.

Ir gob is mafia here, his mates could as well make this Luca vs him at 4 votes.

We had Gob + Dp and now Gob + Oats.

Coincidentially, Ninja and Luca began suggesting me and Oats being partnered afterwards. And both aren‘t voting gob.

Both his mates are already voting me.

Then why aren't you voting gob?

Or why did we, his mates, not go for DP when we had the chance?

To answer the final question, it's because you know it's inevitable.

And if you want to work the angle of "but why wouldn't we shut down the conversation", I think scum, much like Darth and myself, have figured out that super long days are actually kinda bad for town, because we are entering analysis paralysis and giving ourselves too much time to second-guess ourselves.

The fact that you are trying to argue that you and oats hammering Gob makes you innocent is a real head scratcher for me. Why should that make you innocent?

Inevitable lol.

You can go Thanos mode on the tracker me and Oats are a team with (I agree with that if he is). Be my guest.

Are you pushing your scumread? I don‘t think so.

[Vivax]

Either he dies tonight or tomorrow real TI claims and gob is auto yeeted and we have another result.

Wow this game is easy

[Vivax]

Need to look at Dann again but

Dann/Ninja/Luca is interesting territory.

Would explain the soft pushes

[Vivax]

Or Dann making a gigantic case on D1 when he was under pressure then moving it to forgotten territory

[Vivax]

Fwiw I still lean town on Oats and mafia on Luca.

If I‘m right with ninja/Luca/Dann then it‘s a scum dominated game.

[Vivax]

2.12

Oatsmaster (4) :

SuperfluousNinja / Dannflor / Luca Blight / Grackaroni

[Exe-2]

Gob (4) :

Naerys / Hu Tao / Darth Punk / Vivax

[Exe-2]

SuperfluousNinja (1) :

outoforder

outoforder (1) :

gob

Not Voting (1):

oatsmaster

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

If gob is town you can see why they‘re in a hurry with Oats too.

Luca said he doesn‘t buy gob‘s claim then votes Oats.

[Vivax]

2.12

Oatsmaster (4) :

SuperfluousNinja / Dannflor / Luca Blight / Grackaroni

[Exe-2]

Gob (4) :

Naerys / Hu Tao / Darth Punk / Vivax

[Exe-2]

SuperfluousNinja (1) :

outoforder

outoforder (1) :

gob

Not Voting (1):

oatsmaster

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

If gob is town you can see why they‘re in a hurry with Oats too.

Luca said he doesn‘t buy gob‘s claim then votes Oats.

Wrong again.

It was Darth who said that. I raised the possibility of Gob being a mafia tracker.

I was voting oats already before Gob's claim. Oats has always been my stronger scumread.

Weird I mixed you two up.
Same message different votes.

I still believe you and DP could have done some scum theatre.

Dann I‘m considering on a whim. It‘s mostly that he‘s so soft on pushing Ninja that made me being him up.

Conclusively I think all the mafia are in DP/Grack/Luca/Ninja/Dann though.

I just keep waffling between which three to pluck out.

[Vivax]

VOTE: SuperfluousNinja
Going 1v1 until one of us dies.

Most damning evidence in all game.

[Vivax]

VOTE: SuperfluousNinja
Going 1v1 until one of us dies.

Most damning evidence in all game.

Actually looks like a bluff after ISOing him. He did soft his role though. Don't think he tracked Ninja. Maybe someone can find more.

Today: gob lim
following: Ninja,Grack
Thats my solve.

I can see it.

But I'll play more at another time. Tired

Dann and Luca are a bit too obviously partnered with ninja to really be partnered probably.

[Vivax]

unsure why Ninja is getting all the heat for bad reads when like Roden/Dunnstral/HuTao were basically consensus null/scum reads all of yesterday

Agreed with this too. Thoughts on who had the worst beginning of day today?

probably oats by a country mile, idk I haven't thought about it too much yet

the wording of 2431 feels weirdly pedantic, like he's trying to give himself an out in case he was tracked to the kill or something

I was ready to push Dannflor come day from this (It's like he knew of a tracker's existence, also very set on pushing Oats). Odd kill imo.

Worth noting that Oats was the first to really call out scum gob in this game, and Oats got limmed not long ago, though it felt like an eternity.

[Vivax]

The Dann kill clears most of my suspicions regarding Ninja and Luca.

I'm eyeing Hu Tao + DP now.

Hu Tao mostly because of her D1. I think that in the context of what I now know to have been a lot of townies and gob scum, her posts struck me as very noncommittal when there was a lot to talk about.

DP because on the day Oats got limmed, he was rather passive about it. Meaning, he had gob as lock mafia and Oats he said would have had to be supermafia for him to believe he was mafia, basically. Either way, I didn't see a lot of conviction on his part.

Luca's first post in the context of this Dann NK was spot on.

[Vivax]

2.6

DarthPunk (4) :

Grackaroni / Luca Blight / Hu Tao / gob

[Exe-2]

Gob (4) :

Naerys / outoforder / DarthPunk / Dannflor

[Exe-2]

Luca Blight (2) :

oatsmaster / Vivax

Oatsmaster (1) :

SuperfluousNinja

Not Voting (0):

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

2.8

Gob (4) :

Naerys / outoforder / DarthPunk / Hu Tao

[Exe-2]

Oatsmaster (4) :

SuperfluousNinja / Dannflor / Luca Blight / gob

[Exe-2]

Luca Blight (2) :

oatsmaster / Vivax

Not Voting (1):

Grackaroni

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

DP and Hu Tao on the other hand are hard to explain with this wagon formation.
I think everyone including me needs to read more ^^

[Vivax]

The Dann kill clears most of my suspicions regarding Ninja and Luca.

I'm eyeing Hu Tao + DP now.

Hu Tao mostly because of her D1. I think that in the context of what I now know to have been a lot of townies and gob scum, her posts struck me as very noncommittal when there was a lot to talk about.

DP because on the day Oats got limmed, he was rather passive about it. Meaning, he had gob as lock mafia and Oats he said would have had to be supermafia for him to believe he was mafia, basically. Either way, I didn't see a lot of conviction on his part.

Luca's first post in the context of this Dann NK was spot on.

can you explain this for me?

Red/Blue blindness is more likely to be from town for one.
He probably correctly identified Dann as not being VT at the very least.

[Vivax]

Oats if you get eliminated now and flip scum you're going to get me shot.

It's really going to bolster my reputation.

That post from scum Grack would be Oscar worthy.
He did have gob and Hu Tao in his last list previously. I can see Hu Tao.

Hu Tao and ???

Is this a sort by postcount, become mafia pro game?