Mini Normal 2305 | GAME OVER

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: furtiveglance
I signed up into the game just to play with you again bud. It's been a while! I'm happy you stayed around.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Tweet Convinced

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hey! Going off my role this is going to be a lot of fun.

Same

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hello Emperor flippyNips

[humaneatingmonkey]

i see we have hang-ups in play in this game

[humaneatingmonkey]

it would be a shame if an experienced mafia member manipulated these obviously still-hot emotions into winning the game.

hehehehehehe

[humaneatingmonkey]

Town

Why?

VOTE: curiouskarmadog

Why?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Nice

I guess I was wondering why you chose your own destiny instead of piling on poor Tweet, which is the superior choice.

[humaneatingmonkey]

It was funny

[humaneatingmonkey]

You're so excited Elements

[humaneatingmonkey]

gerain is a known and identified grouch

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Elements

[humaneatingmonkey]

Not too obvious. Something about Elements' behavior feels overcompensatory.

The reason this Day 1 sucks is thread health. We immediately got spammed and Elements' had no protown motivation for the Tweet gangpile, just wanted to do something for something. That one, I'm not sure is AI.

I don't feel like reading a game right now. Anyone want to do a summary of 2302? It's referenced a lot. Maybe Klick?

@Elements how would you described how you acted that game and do you think it's reasonable for me to expect that what you're doing right now is overcompensating to the read everyone had on you the previous game (or a previous meta)?

@Daisy Tweet was here. The element of surprise is gone. Did you get anything AI in particular?

[humaneatingmonkey]

My day one often gets read as being forced or overcompensating or generally not natural, but most of the time it's just me saying whatever comes into my head without thinking before posting

As both alignments? Then should anyone be reading you as obvtown?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I like to think my day ones are pretty similar as both alignments.
Looking at day one from 2302 you might not think so

Hey since you're very active, maybe you can volunteer to share the story of 2302?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I have Elements as obvtown

Hi Klick! Nice to meet you. Do you mind explaining this thought process a bit?

[humaneatingmonkey]

From what I can remember there's a noticeable self-consciousness and dip in enthusiasm/energy when she's scum. Here she just wants to play and get things going and it feels very motivated by wanting to make solvable content

Because she was scum in 2302, do you think it's possible that her energy could be overcompensatory as to avoid detection?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Oh, I thought you're part of that playerlist. Did you have a different game with furtive?

And I don't want to impose, but if you'll volunteer to do so then I wouldn't mind.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE:

I think you care about that more than the thoughts themselves

You'll have my vote if you can demonstrate this to me. I'll vote you if you can't.

[humaneatingmonkey]

what

EBWOP

I think the intent of your posts has been to performatively show people your thought process and I think you care about that more than the thoughts themselves

You'll have my vote if you can demonstrate this to me. I'll vote you if you can't.

[humaneatingmonkey]

yes actually. i thought everybody was talking about the same game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Daisy

[humaneatingmonkey]

I do find it odd that she didn't try and pressure Tweet despite saying it was her intention. Your catch that she had a manifesto on what she wants to do in 101 and then going against it added dimension. Well done.

[humaneatingmonkey]

how I play mafia

This is what's suspicious to me. It seems like your focusing is too much on signaling that this is how you play mafia, and less focused on actually playing mafia. Does that make sense?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Klick - I actually asked because I wanted to see if you're trying to make a sincere attempt at sorting Elements or no. Sorting him as obvtown feels off to me because it's not really the intuition I had in the first pages. When you gave me your read on Elements, I nodded and moved along because I could somehow see how you might have thought about it that way. But with Tweet's challenge on your read and your admittance that you didn't read that far... now I'm thinking your intention was justifying the read first (that you called him obvtown, so you must demonstrate that it must be obvious) and it wasn't actually your priority to double-check if you had the right read on Elements. Now I'm not sure if you're town who wants to be correct or scum who's making up your reads.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Yeah I read the iso you gave me. It made sense what you said that he's more lax. But I didn't read through it all because it was actually you that I was sorting and not Elements

[humaneatingmonkey]

Sorry, I just noticed I keep using the wrong pronoun for Elements. This isn't on purpose.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm reading the self-awareness as scummy unless there's demonstration that this is also how she is as town, then I'm willing to write it off.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Second, it seems that her original manifesto of pressuring Morning Tweet (to sort her because she's the one she can read the best) isn't even followed through. Morning Tweet has engaged her and she was also here, but just focused on defending herself and didn't even acknowledge Morning Tweet. Consistent with what I thought she'll do as scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Interesting. You think they're fluffy posts? What's your read on her now?

[humaneatingmonkey]

To be clear, I don't think you're scummy for prioritizing me. That is absolutely sweet and please continue to do so. I will also prioritize responding to you.
You're scummy for different reasons!

[humaneatingmonkey]

Daisy doesn't feel any urgency in responding to Morning Tweet, a slot she thinks she can sort and whose reaction she's waiting for, is exactly what I feel. It tells me that she isn't consistent with what she says her thoughts and motivations are.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Alright. What about her read on Elements do you disagree with?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm sorry you feel that way!

[humaneatingmonkey]

But you can do more than one posts in this game... It's entirely fair observation for me to make.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'll give you space if that's what you need.

[humaneatingmonkey]

There's no case still, but I'll wait for it!

[humaneatingmonkey]

Can we talk about that then?

What about her posts strike you as scum-indicative? You disagree with her Elements reads, that's clear. I'm just not sure how that would make her scum?

[humaneatingmonkey]

It's the lack of content.

Did she have a different in the opening of your game?

And what about Tweet/Klick/HEM?

What do we have here clidd?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Alright. See you soon, Daisy!

[humaneatingmonkey]

If there are scumreads being thrown around here, I wanna know about it -- especially when my name's mentioned!

[humaneatingmonkey]

I misunderstood then. And of course you would.

What's your opinion of Daisy's slot?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't want you to do anything else but you, Daisy.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Yeah he's quite a direct player, and can make you feel like you're on the witness stand at times.

Oh stop. I'm literally harmless.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Daisy, when you said you were going to pressure Tweet in hopes of getting a read, did you expect her to react a certain way or were you hoping for a specific response that was alignment indicative?

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Takutai

[humaneatingmonkey]

Tweet, there's something off about trying to justify yourself when Daisy pushed you over nothing. Like you're being too defensive.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I feel like it's totally obvious to me that Daisy doesn't even have any strong argument or read against you, and it's just you having nothing to say when she expects you to have more to say.

Yet there's this huff and puff from you that's slightly off.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Tweet's town/mafia play is something I'm seeing

Did you read any of Tweet's town game prior to this?

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Takutai

Naughty point

Thanks for noticing me.

Can you describe how naughty I was, gerain?

[humaneatingmonkey]

UNVOTE:

[humaneatingmonkey]

I considered it. I'm there in spirit. I agree that the game would benefit more by hearing more from inactive slots like karma, Greeting, and Emperor. I'll move out of the way. Takutai is obviously crumbing something so I'll sort him some other day. Maybe if karma didn't respond well to the pressure, I'll add my vote in for effect.

[humaneatingmonkey]

bro just iso your favorite slots and give us some thoughts

[humaneatingmonkey]

do me

[humaneatingmonkey]

I notice he likes to scheme a lot more as scum

Hi Roden, this really caught me eye and I just wanted you to expound more about this because this seems like a key component of why you townread me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

He really just unvoted instead of having to explain

this guy lmao

[humaneatingmonkey]

That is the way I see it too. I could be wrong.

[humaneatingmonkey]

He did make excuses and promises.

[humaneatingmonkey]

no wait.

this doesnt make sense.

he would have had a heads-up from his mates that he's not in THAT much danger.

[humaneatingmonkey]

this is clearly a vibe check. i know it was for me. and as scum, maybe he would have played it cool if there was a chance not to nuke his slot right there and then. also considering he had a reputation for not posting much and being solid in later days. he could have pulled of a gerain.

[humaneatingmonkey]

this slot is town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

He wasn't in that much danger. His mates could have asked him to calm down.

But WIFOM, maybe this was the play to get a townread.
I'm not sure how drastic this guy's scum gameplay is.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm gonna lean more toward not voting him out on Day 1.

[humaneatingmonkey]

He had an option to not sign on and nuke his slot, and wait until his V/LA blows over. We would not have eliminated him.
This guy's here since 2008. He knows how to flake.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Use your imagination, furtive.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: clidd

[humaneatingmonkey]

I would like to hear more about your townreads, including Greeting and Roden.

[humaneatingmonkey]

So I guess I'd say that you focus on what you want to do as scum, while as town you hone in on particular things that pings you.

And in this game, would you be able to tell me which posts were you able to make that distinction? I'm quite narcissistic and I always want to be talked about.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Thank you, clidd. You do realize that they're fine because they buttered you up is the pattern? What does that make you feel?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Before that, I mean.

[humaneatingmonkey]

They said some nice stuff about you, and so they're fine.

[humaneatingmonkey]

no wait.

this doesnt make sense.

he would have had a heads-up from his mates that he's not in THAT much danger.

this is clearly a vibe check. i know it was for me. and as scum, maybe he would have played it cool if there was a chance not to nuke his slot right there and then. also considering he had a reputation for not posting much and being solid in later days. he could have pulled of a gerain.

this slot is town.

UNVOTE:

Before that, I mean.

Just in case you missed this because there was a page break, and I want you to continue talking about me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

No, Roden. Not posts like this. Show me what posts you saw where you made the distinction prior to where you declared I was town for "not scheming". So I know your read is real.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Okay. Now that we have this collection... what about these posts make you think that "humaneatingmonkey isn't scheming in this game, so he's probably town"?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Yes, Roden, repeat yourself, because that's what I'm asking you to do.

VOTE: Roden

I call bullshit on your read on me. There's no way for you to judge that I'm town based on the posts that you say you judged me from.

Because how can you? How can you judge from page 12, post 291, day 1, on any of my posts that I'm not "scheming" in this game? You can't.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Those are posts that I can easily make a scum and you know it. I know you do.
I'm town because you're not seeing any "scheming" in this game, that's a hilarious read.

[humaneatingmonkey]

nice gif. i'm adding it to my repertoire of sassy gifs.

[humaneatingmonkey]

oh you should have said it then. I'm bad at gif communication.

I'm accusing you of being scum, of course. I think your read on me was coming from an informed POV who knows I'm town, and has to say I'm town for whatever reason. (Not important to what I'm accusing you of, there are plenty of reasons why you might want to)

So you made up a reason.

Unfortunately, I believe the reason you gave reveals that you were informed. I believe this because there's no reasonable way you can distinguish that I'm "not scheming" in this game so far. You gave me the posts which you said informed your decision to read me as town. I believe it does not even demonstrate what you said they demonstrate. They were standard posts of mine - sure I am town - but they are posts that I can make from any alignment. When given the opportunity to show the thought process, you were unable to do so. Maybe you can - so maybe show me?

Regardless, I don't believe you can.

[humaneatingmonkey]

If you can demonstrate how you can distinguish that in this game that I am not scheming, and I can see your POV, I will believe you.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think it would be kinda integral here for me to have a reason to fake a town read on you as scum

I can think of multiple, but it's really moot and irrelevant to my claim if you think about it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

If that's not good enough for you then you'll have to define your standards

Sure. You did half the work. You gave me the posts that you said you were able to distinguish. Maybe you can show me what about the content of those posts say that I am not scheming? You only requoted your original reason, but that's not a demonstration? As in take note, that was your claim. The posts demonstrate that I am not scheming. I find it ridiculous that you would ever be able to distinguish that.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Divert Suspicion: By faking a townread on another player, you can divert suspicion away from yourself. If you're vocally suspicious of everyone, others may view you as overly aggressive and start to suspect that you're Scum.

Building Trust: By correctly identifying someone as a town member when they are later proven to be a town member, you can build trust with the other players. They might think that you are a reliable player, which could give you more sway in later discussions.

Manipulating Voting: If you've managed to convince others that your townread is accurate, you can potentially manipulate the voting to ensure that other players who are actually Town are voted off instead.

Late Game Control: If the player you're townreading is a non-threatening town role, keeping them alive and under your influence can help in late-game scenarios.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Do you want more reasons or is this enough to demonstrate that it's moot and irrelevant?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Roden, there's a lot of reasons for you to do it. That's the point. Scum townread Town all the time. It's moot and irrelevant.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Is it my turn yet?

[humaneatingmonkey]

That's the answer buddy. Based off of our interactions in every single game we've ever had, you are just a normal player who would employ normal tactics - just like everybody else. If you were scum, there's a lot of motive for you to townread me on Day 1 - including the reasons I cited.

[humaneatingmonkey]

My turn! My turn!

[humaneatingmonkey]

Roden, do you mean to say that townreading me makes you scum because every time you were town - you scumread me?

Of course not! Be reasonable. That's not a valid expectation to have. Every game is unique and there will be a lot of factors.

The reason why I scumread you is different. It's because you bullshitted your reads on me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

another classic sassy gif that i will definitely use in the future, just so you wait.

[humaneatingmonkey]

No Roden. I find you suspicious because you bullshitted your reads on me and are now actively reframing why I find you suspicious.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Oh come on, we're not gonna have this row for another two pages. Are we? I will not change my mind about why I find you suspicious, try as you might. If you want to change my mind, you will engage with my earlier original question instead if you prefer to keep this short.

[humaneatingmonkey]

We have a very good conversation from #443 to #449 and if you want our conversation to progress, you will have to come back to that and address it. Otherwise, we will just spam the thread.

*smoke bomb*

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't have anything else to add.

Ta-da! There you go! You cannot add to it because you will never demonstrate that there's anything in my posts that can distinguish that I am not scheming. Because it's a ridiculous read that can only come from an informed POV!

[humaneatingmonkey]

Maybe after I come back. Ciao.

*takes off in my harley davidson*

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why did you decide to vote clidd in 406? You withdrew from that pretty quickly too.

Clidd is an arrogant bastard who doesn't want to be wrong and this tracks.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Yea I mean the funny thing is I think there's evidence in this game already that HEM *is* scheming.

Yes Daisy. You're getting it. I AM ALWAYS SCHEMING.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Scheming is an integral part of how you play this game. You have an idea. You plan and act. You execute.
Check and point: I had an idea that Roden might be bullshitting his read on me. I ask him questions to soften him up. I engage him and I pounce on him!

Roden was bullshitting when he made the townread!

[humaneatingmonkey]

Please, everybody, review

Clidd is an arrogant bastard who doesn't want to be wrong and this tracks.

The vote was a vibecheck on whether or not clidd ran out of anything to do after curiouskarmadog's wagon died. It was a tick-tick-tick eyes-on-you type of situation. He organized that wagon, and was in shock that it dissipated so quickly and would probably no longer happen. The best thing to do was refocus on solving the rest of the game - I expected scum!clidd to keep his push of karmadog to maintain consistency and buy time to find a better way to handle the sitution.

Then I remembered that it's also equally likely that scum!clidd would have probably understood that and quickly adjust to another slot - had karmadog flipped town later.
(I don't think they're SvS, clidd wouldn't have pushed on his inactive partner if ever)

Also equally likely that town!clidd really thinks he caught scum because of course he would.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Please everybody review my Roden case and our exchange.

HEM also feels very town. He's pretty straightforward and direct as either alignment, but

I notice he likes to scheme a lot more as scum, and I haven't seen any of that so far.

More so just poking and prodding to get people to post complete thoughts and follow ups.

And review our exchange here:
#434 to #475.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Rodent

*mwah*

[humaneatingmonkey]

framing what you did in a certain way so that people would vote you. Neither of those things happened.

even now, roden? you don't feel particularly framed?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't know Roden. I'm particularly good as scum. I'm a fucking son of a bitch liar who lies a lot. Takutai says I'm suave.

[humaneatingmonkey]

If he was scheming if would be looking for multiple different angles to either manipulate you into voting how he wants, or framing what you did in a certain way so that people would vote you.

There is absolutely no way to distinguish this. No uninformed person with healthy paranoia can determine this. Unless Roden knows I'm town, there's no way he would be confident to claim that I have not been doing this.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I am arguing that the reason you town read me does not exist and is made up. I can concede that you can town read me correctly if it's warranted. But "HEM isn't scheming this game, guys" isn't it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Scum!HEM game where I started picking up on what he was doing a little too late.
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=51&t=89172&user_se ... B%5D=35782

Scum!HEM game where I caught what he was doing very early on.
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=51&t=89536&user_se ... B%5D=35782

And for good measure, town!HEM game where there was nothing to catch, but is a good showcase of our typical TvT interactions.
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=51&t=89510&user_se ... B%5D=35782

These are just links to my games. Literally the town game demonstrates that there's no significant difference between my games in which you can determine that "HEM is scheming" or "HEM isn't scheming". Both is identical and is not the reason why I got caught in PYP. I got caught in PYP because Aristeia, and not you, is well-versed at catching me because she neutralizes the fake emotions I give out when I am scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

HEM also feels very town. He's pretty straightforward and direct as either alignment, but

I notice he likes to scheme a lot more as scum, and I haven't seen any of that so far.

More so just poking and prodding to get people to post complete thoughts and follow ups.

It's the main thing. The scum and town game you cited demonstrates that I can poke and prod just fine as both alignments.

==

Keep scrolling down my dude

Just show us if you really want to demonstrate that in this game, it's evident that "I am not scheming" and in fact "scheming" is my main scum tell (which your links can't even demonstrate, as scheming is present in all three games).

[humaneatingmonkey]

Roden is someone who I thought came in with a read that had no basis, but by providing his explanations and straight up bringing receipts, it's clear Roden cares a lot about defending his position and I'm seeing where his confidence on HEM is coming from.

Tell me: Do you think that my point against Roden has been addressed? Do you also think that scum!Roden would not care about defending his position?
In these games, was it Roden's ability to judge whether or not I have been scheming that made him believe I was scum/town?

Since then he's sunk his teeth in and not let go.

And I will continue to do so until my original point has been addressed -- which it hasn't.

[humaneatingmonkey]

based on a miscommunication on what the word scheming means to different players in the game

Okay. Let's use Roden's own definition of scheming. Do you think he would be able to distinguish it?

If he was scheming if would be looking for multiple different angles to either manipulate you into voting how he wants, or framing what you did in a certain way so that people would vote you.

There is absolutely no way to distinguish this. No uninformed person with healthy paranoia can determine this. Unless Roden knows I'm town, there's no way he would be confident to claim that I have not been doing this.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I am a very loud voice with a pushy playstyle and I am obviously crafty. It's not possible to confidently say that I am not scheming - even by Roden's definition. Especially when I have been confident enough to push someone.

If you want to read a town game, check out the town game Roden linked where I was eliminated at Day 2. It is not, in fact, kumabaya holding hands. It was murderous lust for the monkey.

[humaneatingmonkey]

HEM if you're town this loss is legit your fault. You backed off of nearly every push, OMGUS'd everyone who even slightly suspected you, lied about your potions, and decided to death tunnel me Day 1 even after I tried to give you a chance to prove that you're town and work together to elim a common scum read.

For example: Does this look like kumbaya holding hands to you?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Roden disagrees and believes he can read your scum playstyle well, including the scheming part, and

has provided games where he has read you as scum correctly to back up his point.

No he hasn't. See my point:

Scum!HEM game where I started picking up on what he was doing a little too late.
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=51&t=89172&user_se ... B%5D=35782

Scum!HEM game where I caught what he was doing very early on.
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=51&t=89536&user_se ... B%5D=35782

And for good measure, town!HEM game where there was nothing to catch, but is a good showcase of our typical TvT interactions.
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=51&t=89510&user_se ... B%5D=35782

These are just links to my games. Literally the town game demonstrates that there's no significant difference between my games in which you can determine that "HEM is scheming" or "HEM isn't scheming". Both is identical and is not the reason why I got caught in PYP. I got caught in PYP because Aristeia, and not you, is well-versed at catching me because she neutralizes the fake emotions I give out when I am scum.

In the first, not only is he unable to catch me as scum, I was able to win.
In the second, it was other players that caught me as scum and I already had a well-established wagon by the time he jumped on it.
In the third, I was town who he helped eliminate Day 2 because he was paranoid against me.

None of these game demonstrate that it's my scheming that differentiates my scum and town game. If you read them, you would know that they're identical. In fact, in the second one, I was caught - by a user Aristeia, who has caught me consistently before - because of the incongruence of the emotions I have as town and as scum. She demonstrates - it's a cool case, you should look at it too.

The fact that he even crafted the narrative that "he can catch me scum" with these games should be evidence that

this dude is lying to everyone

.

[humaneatingmonkey]

In fact I remember in one of the games Roden provided you held up a super hard 1v1 with another player to the point where the entire game warped around it, and in that very game you were scum!! (I forget which one but iirc it was with the person who's name started with A)

Check the town game where I have done it as well. The third game. Warping a game around me in a 1v1 is kinda my MO, and what I try hard to emulate as scum (which - as I said - how Aristeia caught me)

[humaneatingmonkey]

Well, if Roden is uninformed, he is also not a mind reader and thus he won't be able to make that read.

It's not a disagreement, it's proof that his read is bullshit.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Would yours? I kinda get a feeling that you've been ignoring my counterpoints against Roden and not evaluating it fairly.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Yea I am ignoring them because I'll be honest, I haven't got the time or effort to go read through three full games to verify whether what you're telling me is real or not.

I will appreciate it very much if you gave me a fair shot. Meta is often used to obfuscate exactly because it requires a lot of effort to verify, but it's all in there. Thank you.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Human is asking Roden to prove something ridiculous ("How can you judge that I'm NOT doing trickery given my entire body of posts?")

It is ridiculous, right? Somehow Roden did it though. He judged that I'm not doing trickery given my entire body of posts and called me town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

But HE DID. I'm just asking him for proof.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm not going to open the other games.

Open the games. Roden is not painting an accurate picture of the games.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Fine. I'll shut up. I'll just scumread Roden by my lonesome. I already said my piece. If he's scum, this won't be the last time he'll slip up anyway. I'll hammer him and wagon him any chance I get.

[humaneatingmonkey]

So Tweet, I should tell you. Roden should not have the confidence to tell us here that I have not been doing trickster shit. Because I do trickster shit, monkey-style.

The idea that scum!Roden wouldn't townread me here and put me on null sounds like a good reason, until you remember that people can try out new stuff and make mistakes. It was very easy to townread me then, most people townread me. He probably thought it was a novel thing to do.

I mean, I could be wrong. I don't decide alone who gets eliminated. It takes 7 to eliminate on Day 1. However, I'm so so so confident that Roden's scum here. All I ask is to be heard, which you did Morning Tweet thank you. You even read the games. If you read the other two, you'll see how massively Roden misrepresented his ability to detect me. Mwah.

[humaneatingmonkey]

But I was pretty sure I noticed a difference and i'd probably convince myself i'm right if i played a few games and got it right

I can forgive the read if it was anything else other than "Monkey hasn't been doing any scheming in this game." There are plenty of ways to read me, a lot of good players do and I sometimes experiment to get around their filters. But seriously "Monkey isn't doing scheming" is not only a ridiculous claim, a ridiculous reason to townread me, and unbelievable to be coming from an uninformed Roden.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Not confident. It's page 9, it was microscope time. Right now, she gets a day pass.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Good question. I demonstrated it.

Second, it seems that her original manifesto of pressuring Morning Tweet (to sort her because she's the one she can read the best) isn't even followed through. Morning Tweet has engaged her and she was also here, but just focused on defending herself and didn't even acknowledge Morning Tweet. Consistent with what I thought she'll do as scum.

Second, it seems that her original manifesto of pressuring Morning Tweet (to sort her because she's the one she can read the best) isn't even followed through. Morning Tweet has engaged her and she was also here, but just focused on defending herself and didn't even acknowledge Morning Tweet. Consistent with what I thought she'll do as scum.

You asked me a direct question so I responded? And now I'm scummy for that cause I prioritised that response over analysing some fluffy posts from Tweet that were basically a scumread on El I disagreed with and question marks on me?

Which she confirms. This has been well-established. You were even there.
It was true. She prioritized me instead of engaging Morning Tweet. It's just that it isn't alignment-indicative.

[humaneatingmonkey]

How can you know that Daisy didn't feel any urgency in responding to Tweet? That sounds pretty unbelievable to be coming from an uninformed humaneatingmonkey.

Nice try though, informed Roden!

[humaneatingmonkey]

Linking posts that demonstrate timeline and has confirmation of what is being claimed IS enough to show it.
I claim she has not prioritized sorting morning tweet, and she agrees!

It's not too late! You can prove to us specifically how you can determine that I have not been scheming in this game.
In fact, that's the first thing you should do after this post!

[humaneatingmonkey]

HEM reveals the reason he asked me this question was to show that I was more interested in defending myself than responding to your posts that had come about an hour earlier, despite the fact that I was wanting to pressure you at the time.

Daisy, to clarify:
I didn't ask you the question to show anything. I asked you the question, and at the same time, I noticed that you were more interested in defending yourself. I noted this as consistent with my expectation of who you would be as scum but I will concede that a literal human-eating monkey putting pressure on you will cause you to focus more on the monkey and so it's not alignment-indicative.

[humaneatingmonkey]

What I really should have done, and I was debating it with myself when it happened, was let you be and watch what you did. But I was hungry for action because it was Day 1 start.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Back at the drawing board lmao.

I would appreciate it if you find the time and read it yourself. I find Tweet's interpretation of the second game fair. So if you continue the trend and give your thoughts on the third game, town vs town, it would probably introduce you to my playstyle during my weaker moments.

[humaneatingmonkey]

furtive why do you scumread clidd

[humaneatingmonkey]

time for my subjective feelings:

furtive is missing a soul in this game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I thought his latest readslist was more of the same, too many nullreads on slots who have done a lot this game.

I feel like your readslist is identical? A couple of townreads, an elim pool, and a bunch of people he hasn't figured out yet.
I guess if you think about it, I don't feel too good that I'm not a townlean when I feel like he treats me like I'm a townlean. Personally, I chalk it up to paranoia.
Do you think his readslist doesn't match how he's been treating this game?

[humaneatingmonkey]

If clidd was town, are you expecting a different kind of readslist?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Right now, things seem to check out for me. Do you mind walking me through why you're expecting a different gameplay from clidd? Have you been playing a lot with him recently that makes you think he'll have stronger stances than what he has right now?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I did as skim of the game and I can see where you're coming from. I don't think the read is reliable, but I can see where you're coming from. Mainly because it's a newbie, so it's not really "normal". I know I'm kinder in newbies.

My thoughts: I do remember clidd to be more combative than this, the targeting inactive slots seem lazy, true. I may be misremembering but I think he likes hero solves - and we're not getting that here. I mean... gerain and karmadog? i also do not understand why Emperor is "fine" for not showing signs of being scummy even though Emperor barely posted.

I also expected clidd to be using this time to be *doing* something rather than what I perceive to be passive commentary. This guy is supposed to be as egotistic as I am, so maybe the absence of "I solved the game in day 1" could be indicative of something. However, I do not know new clidd - the clidd I knew was old clidd. Someone needs to introduce us to new clidd.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i want to make one immature clidd joke

[humaneatingmonkey]

it will remain a mystery

[humaneatingmonkey]

I did as skim of the game and I can see where you're coming from. I don't think the read is reliable, but I can see where you're coming from. Mainly because it's a newbie, so it's not really "normal". I know I'm kinder in newbies.

My thoughts: I do remember clidd to be more combative than this, the targeting inactive slots seem lazy, true. I may be misremembering but I think he likes hero solves - and we're not getting that here. I mean... gerain and karmadog? i also do not understand why Emperor is "fine" for not showing signs of being scummy even though Emperor barely posted.

I also expected clidd to be using this time to be *doing* something rather than what I perceive to be passive commentary. This guy is supposed to be as egotistic as I am, so maybe the absence of "I solved the game in day 1" could be indicative of something. However, I do not know new clidd - the clidd I knew was old clidd. Someone needs to introduce us to new clidd.

what do you think about this, clidd

[humaneatingmonkey]

tbh clidd no. i think you'll have more nuance than that.

[humaneatingmonkey]

And now I'm leaning scum on you!

[humaneatingmonkey]

you have no one you want to keep, gerain?

[humaneatingmonkey]

furtive no longer is soulless. i think he just ran out of fucks to give since i last saw him

[humaneatingmonkey]

gotta be consistent right

[humaneatingmonkey]

furtive if Greeting says he scumreads you, would you have engaged?

i read it as suspicion. come on, im also curious

[humaneatingmonkey]

okay why do you townread them, veteran actor Martin Freeman?

[humaneatingmonkey]

okay thanks Watson

what do you make of Greeting asking a question that you had already answered?

i have an excuse. im playing on mobile right now.
but if he's voting you, he probably should have a good idea of where your head is right?

[humaneatingmonkey]

wow i am sheeping you arent i
look at you

[humaneatingmonkey]

im really excited for Klick to catch up

hurry up man

[humaneatingmonkey]

{Roden > clidd > Greeting, Elements}

is my elim pool

[humaneatingmonkey]

maybe gerain

gerain, Greeting, Elements - in the same tier

[humaneatingmonkey]

gerain was my scum partner on an alt and played with him as town. I'm not sure I can even tell.

of course if i can rally seven people to send off Roden to the spirit dimension, I will most definitely do it. but I'm not sure gerain will be easy to sort in any day.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i haven't actually done any feasibility study on whether or not I can actually push for a roden or a clidd wagon. but I'm pretty confident I can push for either. gerain greeting and elements are in the "no one wants to elim my scumreads, so okay let's flip these" tier.

[humaneatingmonkey]

oh shit the hype is fucking real

Monkey
Oopsie
Emperor
Klick
Elements
Takutai
geraintm

Fucking yes let's flip the burger

[humaneatingmonkey]

it's time to claim, sweet Roden. while we can still have space to discuss.

[humaneatingmonkey]

yeah furtive's different i can totally attest
I don't know what it is about him
maybe he's been hitting the gym
gosh

[humaneatingmonkey]

A town Greeting is a storyteller, like the news. He tells the story from his town's POV, and delivers his thoughts on it. He mindmelds with other people effortlessly. As scum, I have trouble with Greeting because he's so solid and hard to push. Not easy to bait a chill person into making mistakes, which my scum game usually tries to take advantage of. That's from my memory.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Or clidd really

1. clidd's focus on inactive players even though he has a wealth of null players that he has yet to figure out. he said he wants to get the inactive players to start moving, but he can multitask. there's a perceptible loss of purpose after the curiouskarmadog wagon died and it felt a bit like difficulty in repositioning. instead I would have liked him to turn that null list into stronger reads.
2. clidd is proactive. he's a frame pusher. i am perceiving passivity and it's giving me bad vibes.
3. clidd is a pointed fella who wants to have the right perspective. but the indecision is also perceptible - I feel as if he doesn't have a genuine perspective to be proud about.
4. clidd is a proud man. he's the type to be flexing his solving muscles into all kinds of potential scum pairings and scum possibilities. i am seeing a weaker version of that in this game. is he saving himself for the next day? does he think he'll survive the next day? you know who survives the next day? scum.

basically, I am disappointed in clidd's performance and I don't feel like I got the value of the concert ticket. i feel scammed. or better yet... scummed. *sunglasses on*

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm looking for a different identity and my new self believes this is not the time to ignore inactive slots.

this is his alibi. but I just don't think it's a strong alibi. like I said, he can multitask.

[humaneatingmonkey]

the greeting one is because i haven't townread greeting, and can be convinced to vote him if that's the only option open to me.

luckily, everyone seems down to see roden claim.

[humaneatingmonkey]

when i say everyone, i mean at least seven.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I am very good. But also very bad. I am not an unreadable player. A lot of people have read me before - down to what I'm doing and what I'm planning to do.

Pretty sure Roden will be able to show if monkey is actually scum

Can you expound this for posterity

[humaneatingmonkey]

I want Klick to confirm he's done catching up and to expound his readlist! I could have sworn he likes me, but apparently I'm mid.

[humaneatingmonkey]

He'll either come back and explain what he's thinking (I got the impression he changed his mind on you?)

IIRC he still calls me town. Maybe that will change.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also Takutai could be a good scum player this is starting to get scary it's more or less effortless town posting from new account

I can confirm I got shivers as well.

[humaneatingmonkey]

oh shit the hype is fucking real

Monkey
Oopsie
Emperor
Klick
Elements
Takutai
geraintm

Fucking yes let's flip the burger

Is this a reads list? Am I most townie or least townie?

This is a viability study for the project "HYPE: Roden's elimination"

[humaneatingmonkey]

Now, I'm getting cold feet because the Roden elimination is almost unanimous. Still willing to push through, though.

Just in case, interest check for clidd?
I imagine geraintm, furtive?
Maybe Emperor?

[humaneatingmonkey]

clidd is definitely one of them. i'd have to wade through oopsie, elements, greeting. and maybe gerain.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Vote Count 1.5 Unofficial - humaneatingmonkey - VERIFY

Roden (5):

humaneatingmonkey, Takutai, Klick, Elements, OopsieDaisy

Elements (2):

curiouskarmadog, geraintm

Emperor flippyNips (1):

Roden

furtiveglance (1):

Greeting

clidd (1):

furtiveglance

geraintm (1):

clidd

Not voting (2):

Emperor flippyNips, Morning Tweet

[humaneatingmonkey]

That's E-2!

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm pretty sure clidd, Emperor, Tweet is enough velocity for hammer.

I suggest we take our time to discuss after Roden's claim, maybe have some last wills.

[humaneatingmonkey]

clidd is definitely one of them. i'd have to wade through oopsie, elements, greeting. and maybe gerain.

this is still true regardless of town or scum flip. with this amount of unanimity, this is probably a bus.

greeting is there, not as scum in Roden's wagon, but as someone to watch out for. same with gerain (but gerain expressed willingness to be in any wagon except Daisy's)

[humaneatingmonkey]

this is real guys i am getting cold feet

[humaneatingmonkey]

this feels a lot like i got really confident on a bad read and now I'm being set up. wont be the first time to happen to me.

I guess the only worry is being tricked by Monkey since he's good? Pretty sure Roden will be able to show if monkey is actually scum. eventually.

Remarks like this make my palms sweat

Just please, if you're in this wagon, make sure you did your homework.

[humaneatingmonkey]

what if you guys sort me instead by following me on a clidd wagon? will you follow? if that's the reason you're doing it, then you must have no problem following me here.
VOTE: clidd

sorry guys, i must shake it up once again. the sheer speed of that wagon does not feel good.

[humaneatingmonkey]

good night. at least by doing this, we'll have two wagons to analyze. and a big wagon movement before deadline.
i hope things become interesting when I wake up. if I wake up and I'm the one with the wagon, I'll laugh my ass off.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I no longer feel bad about Roden!
VOTE: Roden

[humaneatingmonkey]

bro youre even getting cold feet
admit the wagon seems too good to be true

[humaneatingmonkey]

bro just understand it happened too fast i didnt even know there was appetite

[humaneatingmonkey]

i have trauma for shit like that. ill be confident on a read then find out my entire wagon had scum and now im set up for elim day 2 and day 3 no matter what i did

[humaneatingmonkey]

i understand waffling like that will make me look scummy
i didnt care
it needed to be said

[humaneatingmonkey]

Im not voting curiouskarmadog.
Im not leaving Roden's wagon again.
Im not forcing another slot to claim.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i doubted my read. big woop. who doesnt.

but i dont think so anymore. roden's seen me change my minds wildly before. this is the guy trying to claim to be so familiar to me. and he still calls that my scumtell?

its in the third fucking game that he linked.

thats now for a score of two. i dont view this as a coincidence. roden's scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Takutai what do you say about my argument of Karma being town

[humaneatingmonkey]

karmadog can be town to, and will talk. a few players have already discussed this. why do you believe roden's vt claim and not karmadog, - - whos claim you even townread?

would you really rate anything roden has so far as townie? havent you been scumreading him as well?

[humaneatingmonkey]

hes got a score of two on lying about meta on me!

[humaneatingmonkey]

no, im back on roden's wagon because not only he self voted with a vanilla claim without elaboration until prompted... he lied about my meta twice. once was enough to have confidence to push, twice removes all doubt for an elimination.

i also think karma is flipping town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

roden's never been difficult for me. i dont know if youre purpisely ignoring that roden is lying about his portrayal of the games by not validating it. but please, in no games he linked was he ever the main reason why i was elimmed as town and scum - - and when i was scum, i won against him

[humaneatingmonkey]

i wont even mentioned the newbie game where i replaced into a game and immediately caught roden as scum... because that was his first site on the game.

but my knowledge of his meta isnt why i want him eliminated.

its that he lied about his knowledg of my meta TWICE to try and discredit me and to scumcase me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

didnt you just hear karma town carried their last game? if roden is town then it is still true that hss been misrepresenting meta. and only one of them claimed in a townie way. im not sure you should be weighing karma's value less.

[humaneatingmonkey]

that doesnt make any sense. flupped scum + spewed and killed town is more important to town and gamestate than eliminating possibly town claim who might possibly have good reads. and then we'll get a night kill anyway.

huh

[humaneatingmonkey]

okay we still have takutai on board

hem, klick, takutai, geraintm

and maybe we still have
elements, emperor, clidd

we can still do it. end the day!

[humaneatingmonkey]

roden's never been difficult for me. i dont know if youre purpisely ignoring that roden is lying about his portrayal of the games by not validating it. but please, in no games he linked was he ever the main reason why i was elimmed as town and scum - - and when i was scum, i won against him

Why are you lying

I literally linked a game where you wrongly death tunneled me Day 1

Like what is the point of blatant gaslighting like this

why are YOU lying

i did win that game. and is the reason why you scumread me on game 1 the reason youre scumreading me now?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Takutai's hammering

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why is the TvT relevant here? You weren't the reason i got eliminated there. The reason I got eliminated there was I switched on my reads rapidly and everybody thought that was scummy. i was town, and now youre using that to scumread me?

i was talking about game 1 you linked, TvS, where in spite of what you say you had no luck against me because i won.

youre just trying to make things confusing.

even furtive can confirm that i waffled on my read on him in a previous game and ended up being very town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

hop on the wagon now. lets end this.

monkey
klick
emperor

and now

elements
geraintm
clidd
takutai - hammer

end of day.

[humaneatingmonkey]

roden's never been difficult for me. i dont know if youre purpisely ignoring that roden is lying about his portrayal of the games by not validating it. but please, in no games he linked was he ever the main reason why i was elimmed as town and scum - - and when i was scum, i won against him

Why are you lying

I literally linked a game where you wrongly death tunneled me Day 1

Like what is the point of blatant gaslighting like this

why are YOU lying

i did win that game. and is the reason why you scumread me on game 1 the reason youre scumreading me now?

In the game I linked where we were TvT we BOTH LOST

We have had exactly one game where I was scum and you were town and it was TWO years when I was brand new to forum mafia

You do not have relevant info on how I play as scum and it's pretty blatant you don't know anything relevant about my meta since you haven't correctly read me ever since that game

clairfy then what does this post mean?

[humaneatingmonkey]

no, you were establishing that you CAN read me

[humaneatingmonkey]

am i wrong?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Yes, Roden, repeat yourself, because that's what I'm asking you to do.

VOTE: Roden

I call bullshit on your read on me. There's no way for you to judge that I'm town based on the posts that you say you judged me from.

Because how can you? How can you judge from page 12, post 291, day 1, on any of my posts that I'm not "scheming" in this game? You can't.

Yea I mean the funny thing is I think there's evidence in this game already that HEM *is* scheming. Look at how the interaction with HEM & I went where he asked me a question to divert my attention away from Tweet's posts, and then called me out for focusing on that question and not the Tweet posts. That felt SO much like scheming to me.

What I don't understand is how Roden seems to have completely missed that, unless Roden is looking for longer term scheming in which case how are you even meant to find that at this point in the game?

That's not what scheming is? That's just poking and prodding. If he was scheming if would be looking for multiple different angles to either manipulate you into voting how he wants, or framing what you did in a certain way so that people would vote you. Neither of those things happened.

Okay. Do you have confidence in spotting these underlying schemes before they come to fruition then? Because otherwise I don't understand how your townread of HEM has any basis.

I do, actually.

Scum!HEM game where I started picking up on what he was doing a little too late.
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=51&t=89172&user_se ... B%5D=35782

Scum!HEM game where I caught what he was doing very early on.
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=51&t=89536&user_se ... B%5D=35782

And for good measure, town!HEM game where there was nothing to catch, but is a good showcase of our typical TvT interactions.
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=51&t=89510&user_se ... B%5D=35782

LOOK AT THE CONTEXT OF THIS THREAD, SIR RODEN.

You were establishing how much you can read me as scum, claiming that im a schemer. and thus, you can tell if i was town.

nothing about the context of these say anything about my ability to read you.

which isnt relevant because im not reading you for your meta. Im reading you scum because you LIED about my meta. first, to townread me. second, to scumread me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

youre counterpushing me as scum because i changed my mind when in the third game in the link, the reason i was eliminated was for my rapid change of reads

[humaneatingmonkey]

Is this why you keep asking for proof on how I can tell if you're scheming?

I can't prove it because it's just a read that I made based on past experience that isn't foolproof or definitive but was enough to say "this slot feels townie"

im asking for proof because i know you cant, and if you can - i want you to demonstrate so i can believe you. instead you flaked the thread, was sarcastic against me, and selfvoted upon arrival. thats when you also lied about my meta to scumread me.

the fact is: the read you said you had lasted until you were in the brink of elimination by my hands. so it was a confident read despite what you say now.