Double Vote Mafia -Mini 1239- Over

[Rainbowdash]

unvote all

This game is terrably scum sided everypony so we are going to take every precaution possible to help tilt this back to town which means two things are instantly happening

1) We are massclaiming. I am starting, and we are popcorning from there. I am Vanilla, Nobody Special is up next.
2) Everypony is going to explicitly tell me which of thier votes is their real top pick. If it changes, you are going to tell me again. I will keep this running "real votecount" and post it intermittantly. This eliminates scum ability to egde mislynches as they see fit.

@NS - Claim. Popcorn from there.

[Rainbowdash]

Massclaiming on Day ONE?

I don't think so.

No.

We are massclaiming since it helps town a whole lot given the DV mechanic since that amplifies day play while negating night play. We are claiming today one way or another.

[Rainbowdash]

You can't dictate these things, you know.

Well why

NOT

massclaim?

I have seen zero reason from you apart from everypony always being scared of it because its 'bad' for unknown reasons. Total information supports optimal town role play, and in a game where night is going to be next to worthless for town to start given the DV mechanic. If town wants any chance we should massclaim here, or at least get everyponies opinion on it.

ASAP too.

Trust me on this.

[Rainbowdash]

You also havent told me which of the ponies you are voting is your top pick.

This should be remedied

[Rainbowdash]

Ok so im going to assume thats a popcorn to AV

@AV

- Claim and identify your top pick for vote.

[Rainbowdash]

Yeah which is why I want to do massclaim today. The gun suggests that there is a gunsmith and there is probably a doctor/BG if not both since this is 13 pony setup with no scum PRs. I am totally willing to double lynch a cop/cop counter day one and hope we have it happen.

Anyone who claims cop is basically confirmed, its probably worth it for scum to do but if they dont town is going to be crushing.

[Rainbowdash]

Alright then...

@hiraki/Nintendo

- We are massclaiming, you are up. Also claim who would have your vote if you only had one.

[Rainbowdash]

@NS - Yes. I know what im doing.

@Whiskers - If they are a BG, yes. If they are a doctor I still lean yes given that the chance of multi-protectors are high since EV of a double vote game is something like +15% to scum out the gate, meaning a massclaim can be pretty powerful for town and likely clear three/four ponies at least. Maybe even setup forced NKs for scum for the remainder of the game.

[Rainbowdash]

Please, im not an idiot.

I know the setup, and was entirely serious when I said this is going to be massively scum sided. Two things that can help town are scum being careless and not knowing the setup, unlikely but worth a gamble, especially if I can try and nudge them into thinking its worth it to fake since it would otherwise hurt scum and clear a whole bunch of ponies. Would it have gotten anything? Probably not, but you can never underestimate the incompetence of some ponies. There have been ponies in the past who have screwed up and claimed a non-existant role in semi-opens that were ran as minis before.

The second part we do need to do though, since the top votes are essential for actual information since we for whatever reason are not allowed to just have only one vote out (more +EV to scum). Im going to keep a running one of those to compare to what we actually have to deal with.

[Rainbowdash]

Hey Friend!

You are ignoring my request for saying who vote would go to if you can only have one.

Who would it be?

[Rainbowdash]

Well the massclaim thing is probably moot at this point thanks to somepony pointing it out.

I do think its fairly likely Whiskers is town from it though since scum pays a whole lot more attention to the setup. I know when im scum one of the first things I do when I get my role is start trying to figure out what im going to be up against so I can prep ahead of time as much as possible. Not sure if Whiskers is somepony who would plan that much, but im pretty sure somepony on the team would have mentioned how unbalanced this setup is. Hint - Really unbalanced, like should be one less goon unbalanced.

Plus given that scum have daytalk, the longer it goes on the lower the chance of it being successfull.

Other things worth noting:

FM is scum.

AV will almost for sure not be scum with either Whiskers, nintendo or VM. If there was one it would have to be nintendo... but AV-scum is a huge town tell for any of the other three, just like how scum whiskers/nintendo/VM is a good town tell for AV.

Nintendo is also scum (AV town points)

All time I have for now, almost fully caught up. Will work out which of FM and Nintendo gets top vote later.

[Rainbowdash]

Im a little more torn of Friend after reading the last couple pages because he hit a town tell that I was searching for. She still stays on my shortlist though (Nintendo/Friend/Hydra/Hiraki/Christine) since its obvious she is somewhat Derpy and the tell is stronger from stronger players.

Nintendo is still scum though, which is my top pick. Not happy enough to have a second vote out, would prefer if I was able to just not use it. All the second vote is going to do is allow ponies to keep large wagons on ponies that aren't top picks. Pretty sure what im forcing now will prove it

Will get up votes and such later. This week has potential to be super busy for me so I may go quiet mid-week.

@Friend - Pretend you only have one vote, who gets it?

Also are you ponies really not getting it or trolling me at this point with the cop stuff?

[Rainbowdash]

Top scumpick is Nin/Whiskers. I see no value in distinguishing between the two when they're both hella scummy and their scumminess implies each other as buddies.

Try to distinguish them. Image you only have one vote. Or you have a daykill. Or you will get an apple as a reward. Just something.

Im not trying to make you back down from calling one of them scum. This is needed for information, as I am going to be keeping a running "real" votecount, and somepony better take up those reigns when im gone.

Not too sure on NS, he is pretty null for me. That pony has made some derpy moves already, but not sure if its a scumtell. If it is im thinking he somehow is the most competent pony thats scum. Also if he is scum, Whiskers and Friend are almost auto-town.

Out of curiosity, has anypony actually played a double vote game before?

[Rainbowdash]

Sorta figured it out

Vote nintendo
Vote Hiraki

Nintendo is obviously my primary vote. The AV wagon should go away now, while I would love that pony to be scum because it auto-clears three ponies in my mind, don't think he is scum. VM wagon has a little merit but I don't much like who is one it.

@Whiskers - When did you realize this was an open setup?

@NS - You sorta did. Quoting the setup is just short of saying such.

[Rainbowdash]

It's somehow my fault that your gambit failed??

It is to laugh.

Yes. It is your fault. Expected somepony to crush it without thinking but figured I would get a few claims first.

AV is also right in that you gained a few scum points for pointing it out. Only ponies its a threat to are scum, if they arent paying attention and try to fakeclaim, auto-lynch.

At least a few ponies were oblivious to this being an open game given when I read. Would it have worked? Probably not, but why do ponies keep trying things like that? Its because from time to time they will work. Either way, you not only stopped scum from possibly slipping but also inattentive town dropping tells, pending a few more things I got a couple town reads from the move.

Lets play a new game though!

Why is it scummy for me to have pushed for the claim? Im obviously not going to out any roles, worse case secnario everypony claims VT and we move on. More likely there is a little discussion that can possibly give me a town read or two. Best case we catch scum. As far as I can tell you dont like me because you disagree with my tactic there.

[Rainbowdash]

@Whiskers - When did you realize this was an open setup?

When he quoted it, nnnnngh....

You seem pretty convinced that there was no cop earlier in the game though. What was up with that then?

@NS - Im obviously going to disagree, what should be 12 straight "vanilla town" posts is not meaningless busywork. Infact you already saw that it had potential to catch a few ponies who werent paying attention. Still pretty sure this is you being scum or you just not liking my tactic because it goes against everything that gets engrained in our minds from early on.

[Rainbowdash]

I am actually going to shift my votes with this one, as Nintendo for his Gambit and wtf Nopony for voting Dash. My opinion on Dash may change, but right now, he is looking the cleanest of everyone. He seems to be the only one actually hunting out the scum.

Who is your top vote?

[Rainbowdash]

The "Real" Vote Count

AV (3) - Whiskers, VM, Friend
Nintendo (2) - Dash, Christine
Dash (1) - NS
Whiskers (1) - AV

"Not" Voting - Nintendo, Malp, KJ, Hiraki, Hydra

Fix it

@Whiskers - Never mind, looking at it you are saying a cop isnt guarenteed TO exist, not a cop is guarenteed NOT to exist.

If we are lynching nintendo I want it to be a solo lynch, at very least I want to be able to nix putting anypony up against him since there are a few slightly scummy people who I would not like to see lynched with him if he flips scum. Two independently scummy poines is how we are going to go about the double lynch situation, by D3 at the latest.

Me, Whiskers, AV and KJ are all town. We should rock this game.

Give me a little time and I will find the scum on AV wagon. Gut says we have two.

[Rainbowdash]

You are so cute when you deliberately misinterpret me

AurorusVox - 5 (Voidedmafia, Whiskers, Friend Marisil, nintendoaddict1, Christine)

Thats an iffy wagon if I ever saw one.

Nintendo and somepony that probably isn't Christine. If Christine is scum its probably without nintendo. Almost would be willing to double lynch those two ponies actually. Hmmm.

[Rainbowdash]

@nintendo - That post lacked a top pick. Who is your primary vote?

[Rainbowdash]

God, you're a pushy bitch.

Im gunna love and tolerate you anyway.

The game needs actions forced. Getting to the bottom of who actually is everyponies top picks is something that needs to be on records.

@nintendo - Im going to love tolerate and lynch you.

This information will change the way we look at votecounts, for example the Whiskers wagon. It doesn't exist in the primary vote count. Yet its the third biggest wagon. Thats something worth noticing, it looks like the VM wagon is similar at this point. Answer or there is no way im letting you live today, if you want to test me on this I dare you to try it.

[Rainbowdash]

You still have not answered me. Why do you think I am scum?

I will get around to that. It just is going to need to take me at least a good half hour of being in my room so I can pull up everything I need instead of small access period between work. You should only need about 10 seconds to answer. Im going to assume AV though since you arent doing anything to get NS lynched.

With corrections, that makes it

The "Real" Vote Count

Nintendo (4) - Dash, Christine, AV, KJ
AV (3) - Whiskers, VM, Nintendo
Dash (1) - NS
Whiskers (1) - Friend

"Not" Voting - Malp, Hiraki, Hydra

Notice the distinct lack of VM and to a lesser extent Whiskers wagons? Town tells, especially if Nintendo or AV are scum.

@KJ - If memory serves im pretty sure you were the one that brought up coaching at one point. Which given scum have daytalk I dont think scum would have brought up since it wouldnt cross their minds.

*edit*

Looking back that was actually Whiskers, what I get for not posting near any of my notes.

Alliance at three again.

[Rainbowdash]

So why nintendo is scum.

First there was the mention of ad hom, he calls it justification to throw out a RVS vote which he later using different logic for, but I don't like this. There is no point in pointing out that something is ad hom if he doesn't plan to follow up on it really or sees it as important to the game at all since it will only add clutter.

After that though he does

nothing

at all. Absolutely nothing, the entire game.

There is a one sentance post about VM.
There is a little nudge at NS for pushing on Whiskers

I mean, the most this pony has had to say about anything was him not understanding that there could be double lynches.

Eventually he starts defending himself against the RVS on KJ thing, although it seems he has no clue what ad hom actually means, he still explicitly states that he sees use of pictures like KJ did (you are gunna hate me man) as something that hurts the town, which I would think would provide justification to vote him.

Infact it gets better, he votes AV for pushing him on this which is a horrible vote. AV is completely right that a tell in the RVS stage, or pregame is still a tell. Would you have voted KJ if he made that post after the game started? It sure sounds like you would have so it should have been there too.

Now you are doing nothing but trying to fight me over a point that you can't defend against. Its necessary that everypony identifies who their top suspect actually is because it increases the liability of votes. Lets say we lynch town, what is to stop everypony from just shrugging their hooves and saying "well they were my second suspect". This explicitly stops that from happening by showing what the game would look like if it was normal.

Also im going to assume whatever I want if you aren't going to give me the information I need to work with here, especially when you fail to counter my arguements of why you need to give me this first.

To tl;dr on nintendo since its very simple

1) He does not scumhunt
2) The majority of his votes are OMGUS
3) KJ ad hom move

This is not "VI-town" from him. I have skimmed a couple games from him and he makes some attempts as town. I see no attempt here since his biggest case boils down to "no you are wrong".

[Rainbowdash]

@Hydra - The AV interactions are actually due to AVs play and nopony elses. He is trying to set up him and somepony else being lynched today, which means that all the ponies he is trying to get lynched with him are nearly for sure town if he is scum, and a scum flip from any of them means that he is town. This is magnified by him really not trying hard to make any of these three the best lynch against him, the latejoin of Whiskers is most obviously not with him. Either way I cant see scum even risking them and a partner dying D1. I can see scum trying to get lynched and taking town who is semi-cleared with their death with them.

Also I still hold that the massclaim was good as it showed at least a few ponies had no idea what the setup was. The lack of knowledge there makes me think that it more likely comes from town then scum, since as I said I would speculate in the QT as scum about who might be what role. Also through 15 pages I would assume at least somepony brought up a possible crumb if it was not discussed earlier, again that would be picked up in the QT. Anypony who read the game also obviously knew the setup. Im assuming you are calling me-NS partner or are you just trying to scrounge up any ammo you can find here?

[Rainbowdash]

RD, is that why you believe AV isn't scum? Or is there more to it?

Thats quite a bit of it. Its a large amount of ponies who basically cannot be scum if AV is. Would be better if Whiskers (already obviously town) was not one of them, but I still think AV is more likely then not town from all of this.

Will respond to nintendo more later, but there isn't much since most of his post was "Hey ive done

next to

nothing, not nothing"

[Rainbowdash]

So for everypony who is refusing to give a top suspect, it would be nice to hear a response to this

Its necessary that everypony identifies who their top suspect actually is because it increases the liability of votes. Lets say we lynch town, what is to stop everypony from just shrugging their hooves and saying "well they were my second suspect". This explicitly stops that from happening by showing what the game would look like if it was normal.

because when there are competing wagons that all have two poines on, it would be very nice to know what the 'real' wagons would look at and who is using their second vote to push wagons to a lynch they view as 'sub-optimal'

[Rainbowdash]

I will note that it is bad form to answer a question that was specifically directed at someone else.

I wanted their answer. Now I can't get it.

Thanks.

The parallels to the whole mass claim are blindingly obvious.

unvote Hiraki
Vote Alana

Will you respond to my responses now or are you just going to try and sneak in the AV wagon while backing down?

[Rainbowdash]

Extra reasoning would be beneficial. Especially since your last post seemed to have Vox labeled as town and me labeled as scummy.

Explain what?

My Alana read, you read or AV read?

Also can you give me a case on AV here?

unvote

For all practical purposes I still have my votes on Alana and Nintendo, but want to see what you ponies actually are saying on AV. This goes for everypony who is voting AV (sans Alana who just posted something) - Give me a small case on that pony.

[Rainbowdash]

Mr. Rainbow, you keep asking for "top votes." Consider our top vote to be on you. I would also highly recommend that whenever you finish collecting everyone's "top vote," we lynch the person with the most "top votes" for the aforementioned reasons.

Awesome. Given that you are now actively not responding to what I already gave in response to you, dare I ask why?

@VM - I think this

Nintendo (4) - Dash, Christine, AV, KJ
AV (2) - Whiskers, VM
Dash (2) - NS, Alana
Whiskers (1) - Friend

Refusing to vote (1) - Nintendo

"Not" Voting - Malp, Hiraki

[Rainbowdash]

So Alana is really challenging for that top spot for me right now.

If I die tonight, especially if nintendo is scum, you ponies

ARE

lynching them tomorrow.

[Rainbowdash]

So Alana is really challenging for that top spot for me right now.

If I die tonight, especially if nintendo is scum, you ponies

ARE

lynching them tomorrow.

Yes, ma'am.

Hey look! It's RainbowDash, now with 20% more attitude.

Well when cases against me boil down to

-Suggested massclaim
-Knew setup
-Called AV town
-Attacked AV wagon

Yes.

There will be attitude.

Still interested to hear what Alana has to say given that one of their 'big' points against me was "knew the setup". Which would mean im scum with NS here since he also knew the setup, and a couple other ponies seemed to suggest they knew it.

But seriously.

If I die tonight you lynch Alana tomorrow and you never lynch Whiskers.

Vote nintendo
Vote Alana

[Rainbowdash]

So town group is: Me, AV, Whiskers, NS

Vote Robot
Vote Friend

Today we double lynch

[Rainbowdash]

They work very well with nintendo, especially Friend.

I just don't feel much like making a big case right now, specially lazy feeling today and ive been doing enough work elsewhere. You can either just sheep me here or read them for youself and decide or something like that, becuase most likely I won't be able to make a case on Friend until tomorrow. Robot has like, one post of substance which he takes a leaning town but with outs opinion against nintendo.

So those two ponies are my picks for today.

[Rainbowdash]

@AV , cuz both of you are playing the same game. for lack of a better way of saying it. in my experience when people get into the type of argument you and NIN did one tends to be scum. i voted whiskers because she was defending NIN. now if either of you flip scum, then i know exactly who im going after tomorrow. if neither of you flip scum then again i know who im gonna go after.

This is a big post for why Friend is scum, pay close attention to what is being said here. Friend is calling for the nintendo partner to whiskers, and ninentdo and AV not scum togethere it would seem. The big one to me though is she actually says Whiskers is scummy for defending nintendo. Now, how is that scummy from a null perspective, especially as AV-nintendo seems to be out as pairings and AV is scum?

I think this is Friend trying too hard to tie Whiskers to Nintendo before nintendo actually flipped.

no i think one of you are scum. cant get a read on either of you. so im using the double vote to my advantage. truthfully im gonna leave my vote where they are, and hope when the day is over we have more information. so i can actually do something of relevance.

This is exactly the type of stuff I was expecting scum to pull. The whole "oh I will just vote both of them" so they have no way to actually be accountable for their actions.

Friend has done nothing in this game productive, he just hung around on AV who im pretty sure was the scums mislynch of the day, while taking some jabs at Whiskers who I wouldn't be shocked if I also played spoiler for for scum getting a mislynch. The one quote here is big though, Friend uses Whiskers defending nintendo as a scumtell here.

There is no scumhunting, lots of calling nintendo town, but at the same time seeming to prep for the scum flip.

[Rainbowdash]

I still have to lean away from a NS lynch today.

I read Nintendo as town, his logic makes sense and he is also actively scumhunting, pushing the game forward. I do agree however that the logic surrounding the whole "ad hom" controversy was a little shady.

I just dont like this because its wrong.

Nintendo was not actively scumhunting or pushing the game forward. You even leave yourself a way to get on the wagon if needed.

[Rainbowdash]

I just don't feel it.

Mostly due to how little she seemed to know about the setup. I entirely believe that scum would be more likely to all know it since it only takes one to have realized and then mentioned this to the rest of the team. I dont think its feigning ingorance since there were a few posts before I came in that shows the same thing. Then again I would see scum thinking there are PRs if they missed it being open. Heck I think this only starts coming close to 'balanced' if we had three of us as masons.

Could I be wrong here and am a little biased? Yeah maybe. Just think scum would have been a little more likely to notice and get the point across since this is daytalk.

[Rainbowdash]

unvote Friend
Vote Hiraki

[Rainbowdash]

I don't understand why you're unvoting Friend rather than Robotnick.

Slow the game a bit here and keep discussion spread out to many ponies. Still would be happy with the Friend lynch, and im pretty sure getting rid of those three leaves at most on scum left.

Not wanting somepony to come in and quicklynch this one or anything like that.

[Rainbowdash]

I don't see how AV is in this "all-mighty town group"(intense exaggeration required)

Nintendo was one of the ponies that AV was trying to get lynched with him, so probably town. Plus nintendo parked himself on AV for most of the day. I like the move to nintendo from AV. Just reading him as town up and down right now.

@Friend - Made a case on you already. Go respond or get lynched or whatever floats your boat.

Anyways.

unvote all
Vote Robot
Vote Friend
FoS VM
FoS Hiraki

Im calling that list as the game.

AV is town
KJ is prob town
NS is prob town
Whiskers is prob town
Christine is lean town

For Robot - The pony took a lot of weak stances yesterday, really only pushing hard on a couple of the slight possibility lynches. Then like I said, he calls nintendo somepony who was actively scumhunting? Half the case

against

that pony was that he was

NOT

scumhunting.

Now he is trying to jump on what I think is the NS mislynch, mostly for attacking me. Heck I was on the recieving end of that attack and I dont think NS is scummy for it, just was really misguided/derpy for making it.

Then today, he is way more interested with why I am attacking him instead of giving reasoning behind the Friend or NS votes.

Oh and if Robot is scum, lynch VM. Call it a hunch.

[Rainbowdash]

unvote all

I would like to get our double lynch today

[Rainbowdash]

So, can we get that awesome robot wagon?



Pleaseee?

Or at least somepony trying to explain why NS is scum here, or even why robot is town?

[Rainbowdash]

KJ is probably town for this post

Maybe it's reverse psychology, but AVox seems way too eager to lynch himself when there's a very strong possibility that it will happen - with the double hammer. I'm really doubting that scum would support the 1 for 1 idea in this situation, and it definitely seems to come from a town perspective.

UNVOTE: Voided
VOTE: nintendoaddict

AV is probably town for 90% of the posts from him and nintento

NS leans town for this chain

I have played with many players for whom English is a hindrance, because it's not their native language. This is a game of text, of argument, of debate. It helps to have a facility with the language in which you are arguing.

Thus the question. I believe it would shed some light on whether Whiskers is deliberately avoiding certain things, or whether certain things said could be either a scumslip or an innocent language-slip.

I'm not impressed by Whiskers' arrogance in not answering a simple question.

Unvote, unvote

Vote: Whiskers
Vote AurorusVox

I need to re-examine AV. Although Whiskers' arrogance could conceivably include strong bussing.

Unvote Hiraki, Vote NS

Your still pushing for that answer.

FoS: nintendoaddict

And, nintendo, don't twist my words. It's the arrogance, and the avoidance of a simple question that makes me think she's scum.

No, you said it looked like you weren't getting an answer, therefore you fully believe Whiskers is scum. How did I twist your words exactly?

Does anypony have a problem with me calling those ponies town?

At least one scum in (Friend/Hiraki/NS/Whiskers/Robot)
Probably exactly one in (Whiskers/NS/Friend)
At most one (Christine/VM/Whiskers)

Thinking more or less that. As I dont think NS-Friend works too well as partners, im against that double lynch. Also since I think NS is more likely town then not. Just this play is much more active then his scum play I have looked at.

Vote Friend
Vote Hiraki

Back to L-1

[Rainbowdash]

I agree with AV here. Pointing out that AV is possibly undeservedly being called town makes it sound like you are challenging at least my reasoning behind that read. Im not to back down from a challenge from anypony, so of course will be explaining the read. Either way, its going to be up to you to give me good reasoning as to why AV is not town, or at least show where my reasoning is incorrect. Im just trying to quickly find four other ponies who are town.

I have AV
I have KJ
I want to say that I also have Whiskers and NS, but I get paranoid, especially about Whiskers given the whole "I somehow am alive" thing. Now, its obvious to everypony (at least I REALLY hope its obvious to everypony) that Whiskers and NS are not scum together. So thats technically three.

If I can get a fourth I think its forced town win. I think scum realize this too. In some weird totally unjustified way I want to call my fourth Christine

Hiraki/Friend today though, we are purging the 'off nintendo wagon' ponies to start. No way both bussed. Really dont think after dropping those two and robot the game will still be going.

Now I actually don't think these two make good partners, but its a good double lynch.

@Hiraki - You are either going to try to understand it and get it, just accept it, or prove me wrong. Thats really all of your options, time to pick one.

[Rainbowdash]

@Whiskers - Yeah I said that. Im just thinking its time to start getting as much information out of this game as we can because we have a scum lynch. If we can get four solid town reads, we win the game. Starting to just blast through scum reads is the best way to do it at this point. We hit one scum and last should either fall into place and/or get caught by process of elimination.

[Rainbowdash]

unvote all

Answer enough for ya?

Im all for action, but we aren't going to pass on the opportunity to ice this game right here.

[Rainbowdash]

Im not sure which if Hiraki and Whiskers makes my jaw drop more. The fact that Hiraki intentionally plays suboptimally as scum (forgets partners) or that Whiskers changed

TOWN

play to match

SCUM

meta, since scum meta should do damage to town. Both seem like very not awesome ways to apporach the game. Thats all just theory though.

@KJ - What is the VM case.?
@VM - What is your NS case?
@Robot - What is your Whiskers read?
@Christine - What is your opinion on Hiraki?
@Whiskers - Top two scum and town reads?
@Hiraki - Best chance of scum pair?

Inquiring ponies wish to know!

[Rainbowdash]

Confusing and frustrating stuff this double vote thing. So we are going to sort it all out here!

@everypony - Pro or con using the double lynch today? If con why? If pro who should we double lynch?
@AV - Why NS? Wow me here.
@Robot - Tack on a Hiraki read to that last question.
@KJ - Hiraki read?

This has to be all figured out here. We can do this and probably end the game by tomorrow at the latest.

I mean, if we are all willing to call AV, KJ and myself town that forces the next three scum lynches. Im sure everypony can agree that only one if any of Whisker-NS is scum. I mean, I really don't know why im beating around the bush here so im just going to come flat out and say it.

I just about am willing to say we just lynch everypony off the nintendo wagon. I think the only group who really has a legitimate shot of having bussed there would be (Whiskers/VM/Christine). I want to call Christine town for whatever reason here, im not even entirely sure of it myself but I just have that feeling in my wings that that pony is town. Whiskers is more shrug. I WANT her to be town, that much is for sure, just starting to think I could possibly be overselling tells. Really don't think she belong anywhere near todays lynch discussion though. VM is ehhh... again I want to say town but have my reservations.

Really though, we have (essentially) 9 alive due to double lynch which brings about

9 (lynch 1/2)
8 (1 dead)
7 (lynch 3)
6 (2 dead)
5 (lynch 4)
4 (3 dead)
3 (lynch 5)
2 left alive

So combine living + NKed, we clear five town walks away with this.

I want to stay me + KJ + AV + [Whiskers/NS] + Christine at this point does it... but I want the Hiraki/Friend double up today since a Friend-scum flip cements Whiskers as town.

*shrug*

Im not one for all this math and logic stuff, but if we can use force to win a game im all for that.

Ah good, we got VM for the Hiraki/Friend double lynch bringing that up to three. I think thats how we are going to get stuff done today.

@everypony

- Watch your votes. If anypony 'accidently' hammers as we are trying to double lynch you bought yourself a one way ticket to being lynched tomorrow.

My top pick is actually Hiraki at this point over Friend.

[Rainbowdash]

Watch the votes everypony.

@Whiskers - KJ reads town for interactions with nintendo, being on him for a long time, and challenging my town read of him D1. Christine is town because I just had that tingling that says she is town, can't really find to much to say otherwise. Also stop misreading the NS-Whiskers thing I have set up. Its neither or one of you. Not both. Im about 50-50 between those two. One being town doesnt make the other scum, but one being scum makes the other town.

Also I dont care that robot just mirrored my reads much.

Tells have expiration dates too. The "doesn't know setup" one expired as soon as I used it day one, because at that point its something that is very easy to fake.

[Rainbowdash]

Oh he just realizes he is dead and is done trying to do anything, which means he is probably scum here.

Hiraki is definantly the primary lynch at this point. Give me at least until Friday to figure out what happens next since im not sure I can dodge more then one kill here.

[Rainbowdash]

@VM - What is your NS case?

Really just 286, but that's really all that needs to be said. Oh, and pushing for your lynch just because he thinks your gambit was stupid and thus makes you scum.

So your case is 400 posts old?

I really dont see his push on me as a scumtell, more a derpy tell. Plus I think he wouldn't have killed Alana, I can see that kill coming from only a small group of ponies.

[Rainbowdash]

Wasn't that the main reason we lynched Nin? I thought that's why we lynched Nin.

Nope!

We lynched nintendo for the exchange with KJ over ad-hom and not doing any scumhunting. Was an awesome case.

Are you happy with the Friend/Hiraki double lynch?

[Rainbowdash]

So which of Friend/Hiraki do you think are town then?

Im

this

close to saying we just lynch Hiraki today but if he is town we missed the boat.

Also no ongoing game talk, don't want a modkill.

[Rainbowdash]

Oh no, no no no, I want Friend Maresil lynched. I've seen

nothing

good from her.

I'm saying, yeah, Hiraki looks bad, but he looks

consistently

bad in all the games I've seen or played with him in.

But you obviously seem to think that one of them is town from your other posts. Why

are

you voting each? Just a few lines will suffice but would like to hear your take on it here.

[Rainbowdash]

I'm voting both of them?

Mostly, I'm sheeping you. I don't think Hikari is town, necessarily, but I am far less confident that he is scum than you are. I think the scumtells on him are his general, regular play.

Well you seem fairly confident that after this double lynch the game isn't going to be over, so im trying to figure out exactly what is happening in your mind. I know Pinkie is random, but I want to at least try and figure out what you are thinking here.

Who is

your

ideal double lynch today?

[Rainbowdash]

Um, I don't

have

and ideal double-lynch. Not right now. I'd confidently lynch Friend Maresil and that's it, but now is a good enough time to use the double lynch that I won't fight you on it.
Here's what I THINK you want, though you won't come out and say it: I think Hiraki "is town."

So if you agree with me about now being the best time for a double lynch, try and come up with your best one here. I mean, I love being sheeped and all but you really don't seem too in love with what you are sheeping here and thats concerning me quite a bit. Not to mention that you apparently didn't know why you voted nintendo yesterday, but that something I still need to think about.

@Voided - I think the kill came from somepony not paying much attention most likely. That or somepony who really is going to be protected by me being alive. Its a small group, that both of todays lynches fit the bill.

Hiraki is 100% one of our lynches today at this point due to looking like a partner to nintendo and policy at this point. Im done with that pony.

[Rainbowdash]

I think that puts them both at L-2. Someone needs to make sure they're both at L-1 when we're ready, and we'll have Rainbowdash hammer. Anyone tossing our double lynch out of the window by "accidentally" hammering will be lynched on sight tomorrow.

Absolutely the plan.

Im going to wait at least 24 hours though. Friend has promised content, there are a few other ponies who have said nothing. Nothing wrong with hearing everypony (who is going to contribute) out.

[Rainbowdash]

Actually I don't fully disagree with you on that one. Friend I had a little bit of a town read on before the scum flip from nintendo, but what I have seen from her is very unimpressive. It is just like what Hiraki is doing, balling up to prevent doing anything that can possibly clear anypony, but to a little less of an extent. I mean, her first response is to attack me? The WIFOM of me being alive is something that has been really bugging me, and Alana dying just has me sitting here like... well...



Think the big thing that is keeping me from actually pulling the wagon off of Friend here is that even if I have my Hiraki read right, Friend eats the lynch before at least four other ponies off the top of my head. So in the offchance that im wrong on Hiraki, Friend snaps back into good lynch category. Either way im going to have to write some mini-essay about what to do on different flips and actually back up my town reads. Just had an experience where town started to turn on one after I died, luckily somepony was able to get them back on the right track, but im not going to let that go down again. If I hit scum today there is no freaking way I get as lucky as I was last night again.

So yeah.

Just waiting to see what Friend and Christine have to say at this point I think since Hiraki has made it pretty obvious he is just going to borderline troll the thread for the rest of the time he is alive. I will give them until Saturday sometime then I will try and coordinate up this double lynch. Maybe tomorrow night if I see evidence of them having been avoiding the game.

[Rainbowdash]

You ponies...

If Hiraki flips scum Friend gets added to prob-town list, doesnt do much to Christine, maybe even slightly bumps her the other direction. I dont really buy that Christine didn't realize the VC at all given it was just a couple posts above her. If Hiraki somehow flips town (the troll) then Friend-Christine may not be the worst ever double lynch tomorrow since it gets rid of a couple of ponies who I think could be inattentive enough to have killed Alana. I mean, its basically just (Hiraki/Friend/Chrinstine) that I think would have been inattentive enough to not realize what I was pushing. Then maybe Whiskers/AV for ones that benifit from me being alive more then most, but im not that she they would have gone with that kill, especially AV.

[Rainbowdash]

No its not.

Friend (4) - Robot, Christine, VM, NS
Christine (3) - Christine, VM, NS

Somepony unvote.

Im way busy until Friday/Saturday, and this game is lower priority for me right now. Want to be able to look at this game a bit before it gets sent to night again

[Rainbowdash]

You unvoted in the same post you voted.

Try again.

[Rainbowdash]

FoS Whiskers

[Rainbowdash]

For...?

Being scum.

Ive been skimming this game in bits an pieces. Lotta passive defense of nintendo before I came in and started picking the game apart. Also the NKs make a whole lot of sense from you, and you seem pretty convinced that the game is going to keep going after a Friend/Christine double lynch.

Right now my ideal actually is Whiskers/Christine.

I will explain this more tomorrow night or Saturday sometime when I have a good slot of time.

[Rainbowdash]

That said, the not caring about missing information has been pretty constant across the board-- all the games I play with you in, you don't seem to care what most of the players have to say individually.

Ouch.

I tend to start listening to others when I trust them as players and town. If I don't think that someone is town, im not going to put too much thought behind their reads. When I like somepony though, im going to trust them. Until then, I will read what they have to say but I probably wont make a massive read shift based off it.

[Rainbowdash]

Ouch-- that's just sugar-coating that you don't think I'm town (in ANY of our games) and that you don't like me.

Not true. When you actually buckle down, I like playing with you. At times you just get a little too... aloof... and thats when I start having trouble with anypony because that really messes with my ability to read correctly.

Mine was an insult to your playstyle, is all. You seem to care about the general opinion, but you don't care much about a player's individual reads/opinion.

I keep tabs on everything, but yes I care far more about the big picture and the couple ponies I trust more then anything else.

we're lynching Crhistine becauseshe was stoopid and quickhammered-- sorry, because she was negligent and quickhammered. If you think that Christie is scum, but not Friend, by all means, make a case. I have been known to be convincable. But I think that at least one of them will flip scum.

Im quite lost at this point here. I need to actually gain some confidence back in my secondary town reads here and get back into the game. Friend looks bad, but I have a hard time nailing down a partner to her. Christine again looks bad, but I cant understand why scum would throw the double lynch like that, even if Friend is scum. Then again how does she mess it up as town? I think she really screwed up paying attention, regardless of alignment. Then again the reaction screams town. If it wasnt for the fact that a single mislynch today would mean we are no longer able to double lynch, I would vote you in an instant here since I think you are independantly very likely to be scum. At the same time though you really dont work to well with Friend or Christine (or NS for that matter). That again puts me in a rough spot since I really dont think I can get a double lynch of scum today since everypony is locked in already.

[Rainbowdash]

rainbowdash, you still don't have any reason for Christine being a town read. You are... idk, fencesitting? You're like, "oh oh oh, she might not flip scum"-- this makes me think that either you are scum trying to setup an "I told you so" scenario, or that you and christine are scum and are trying to wifom us and defend her.

Yeah see, im having a problem getting reads down. First I see Christine as scum for the failed double hammer, but why do that because its only going to get her in trouble. At the same time though, why would town mess it up? So she obviously just botched it regardless of alignment. I think that scum would be more likely to double check this though. Either way, I think its as simple as that pony screwed up, it was accidental, regardless of her alignment. Im going to continue to judge her on previous play instead.

Which leaves me with Friend/Whiskers, the problem there is they aren't going to both be scum at all. I would be surprised if both are town though, so it may be the best move here afterall.

For why Whiskers is scum based off nintendo interactions though

1) Nintendo got interested in NS pressuring Whiskers about if she speaks English well. This is a really wierd thing since its one of the only things nintendo got interested in early on. The response of Whiskers for not liking nintendo defending her also is a bit off to me.
2) Whiskers returns the favor here when AV starts attacking nintendo for not understanding how double lynches worked. Moves of to defending him from other attacks here

Accusation: NA had a valid reason to vote for kj in the Pregame, but didn't vote for him when the game started.
Defense: kj didn't continue doing the scummy thing NA had a valid reason to vote for him for after the game started. Therefore, the reason was no longer valid.

Kinda running with it here, if Whiskers is scum it makes a LOT of sense as to why she was so against the double lynch day one, two (maybe three) of the three ponies AV wanted to take with him would be scum.

What bugs me is how fast Whiskers got rid of what looked like a town read on nintendo when I showed up and started getting support for a wagon in that direction. That gives me vibes of a bus.

FoS Whiskers
FoS Friend

There is my double lynch choice.

[Rainbowdash]

Why aren't you voting us, then? Hm? You're essentially leading the town.

Not going to break up leaders right now. If I could actually vote for just one player at a time, which I have no freaking clue why we arent allowed to, its just giving scum a higher EV, I would have put a vote on you here.

If AV wanted to take the players with him that were scum, don't you think I'd have let him take a scum and kill himself? Not to mention the idea that it would burn the Town's double-lynch for the game, meaning that if they caught two scum later, they'd neer be able to lynch them both at once, allowing them o throw in more wifom and defense and cases and stuff. It was pretty clear that AV planned to suicide lynch one of his foses.

Yeah I think you would want to not let that happen. If you could delay the lynch of a partner in this game it makes it harder for town to do a good job if they want to double lynch. It would have been terrifying for scum to have to deal with a double lynch when the one going down had their partners pinpointed.

Defended by nintendo... idk? I didn't see this. Mybe that's the reason for my town read on him, idk.

Dont lie to me. You commented on it even when it happened.

Hey, bro, go ahead and base your reads on her previous play. Then, Tell me why you have a town read on her. Like I asked you several times before. If you don't answer this with something more substantial or at the very least more wordy than, "gut,"

Later. I just think that pony is town for some of her early play. It makes more sense.

[Rainbowdash]

Not going to break up leaders right now. If I could actually vote for just one player at a time, which I have no freaking clue why we arent allowed to, its just giving scum a higher EV, I would have put a vote on you here.

Sure. Fine. It's odd, since it looks like the others don't care so much.

Well given that a mislynch of a single pony today takes away our ability to ever double lynch, im not letting it happen.

I don't understand this. He had, like, thre players he was willing to take down with him. It'd be pretty easy to pick on of the ones that isn't a scumbuddy and have him double mislynch, or if worst comes to worst, take one of the scum that was going down and suggest he double lynch with them.-- Thereby getting rid of the double lynch and an extra townie.

Ok... this stuff keeps making me second guess you since you entirely miss my point which I really dont get how you are going to miss it as scum. Lets say you are scum with Nintendo, AV says I was X/Y/Z to get lynched with me, X is nintendo, Y is you. There is only one pony that might be safe to lynch. Not allowing the double lynch is the best thing you could do as scum there.

Just the vote on nintendo from Christine feels more like town to me, I mean, I can see it as scum but it feels scummy.

@NS - Why did you move your vote off nintendo day one?

Im reevaluating stuff.

I still want the Friend lynch, but im becoming a little more open on the second one. Whiskers I go back and forth liking for town, then thinking she is scum, then thinking she is town again. This is the whole 'inattentive' thing I kept having problems with earlier, Whiskers just seems to go in and out of reading and that is SO not awesome as it really screws with me ability to get reads.

Christine is just a mess on her own. I am 100% sure that was a botched double hammer no matter WHAT that pony is. So we really need to judge her based on early interactions I think, which are slight town to me. If anypony is actually voting her because of that mixup, reevaluate.

What else though... ugh... just feel a little lost here and im trying to figure out the differences between what I want to be true, what I think is true and stupid WIFOM. All point me in different directions.

[Rainbowdash]

Just going to make this last post.

There is something that happened out of thread that is having a direct impact on my view of this game. I cannot under good conscious continue to play in the game as it is not fair to the rest of the players. I have discussed it with the mod and have been thinking about this overnight and believe it really is the best course of action and the only one that upholds the integrity of the game.

Good luck everypony.