Pick your Poison 3 (Game Over)

q21 · Post Post #8 (isolation #0) » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:09 am

Vote: GF, Rolecop, Roleblocker

I don't like the strategy/planning factor that the encryptor gives them. That's the only role I'm dead set against.

q21 · Post Post #11 (isolation #1) » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:41 am

Its not the role reveal I'm worried about, its the day talking.

Also, we have ti have been given a cop for the roleblocker to damage us in any real way.

q21 · Post Post #15 (isolation #2) » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:50 am

I don't have time to read a 46 page game... as much as I'd like to. Is there anything specific you can point to from that game that shows that daytalk can hurt the scum?

q21 · Post Post #16 (isolation #3) » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:52 am

That last post was at JDodge.

q21, hates cross-posting

q21 · Post Post #18 (isolation #4) » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:22 am

Personally I don't think we should give them the vig or the encryptor - hence my vote.

q21 · Post Post #40 (isolation #5) » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:04 am

You have indeed.

So Roleblocker and Godfather.

unvote rolecop; vote vig

My fear in voting vig to start with was that they could end up with rolecop and vig. They'd then be able to find and kill the innocent power-roles without affecting their normal killing, which was too strong for my liking.

Now that that combination is no longer possible I think it is better to try and keep them in the dark as much as possible - they already know exactly what roles we have, but this way they won'y know where those roles are at least.

q21 · Post Post #54 (isolation #6) » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:46 am

Alright I am convinved.

Unvote: vig; Vote: Encryptor

I guess that lack of rolecop almost cuts the encryptor's powers in half.

q21 · Post Post #57 (isolation #7) » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:57 am

Should be. Do is there a night now, or do we go straight into day 1 or what?

q21 · Post Post #58 (isolation #8) » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:59 am

Don't ask me what the "Do in the second sentence is for... I don't know.

q21 · Post Post #63 (isolation #9) » Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:50 pm

Ether wrote:
Vote: Incognito
, of course.

Q21, why the change of heart?

People's comments along the way had made me start to question whether I was right to be worried about the Encryptor. I finally got a chance to read some of PYP 2, including the post game talk. The scum in that game admitted that the daytalk had hurt them. While that didn't prove to me that daytalk will always hurt the scum it did change my view to: Daytalk is as likely to hurt he scum as help them. A vig will always help he scum, so I changed my vote.

q21 · Post Post #66 (isolation #10) » Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:24 pm

In my defence:... bite me...

q21 · Post Post #68 (isolation #11) » Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:39 pm

Thing is, from his grand total of three posts I'm not sure why some of you seem to think he's evil. IS it because of his apparent nonchalance about which roles the scum get?

q21 · Post Post #70 (isolation #12) » Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:56 pm

Okay, the inconsistency in his first post makes this a decent bandwagon.

Vote: Incognito

q21 · Post Post #97 (isolation #13) » Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:22 am

Wish washy: huh?

Non-committal: How is a vote non-committal?

Follow-what-the-town's-majority-seems-to-think: Didn't realise that two people were the town majority.

q21 · Post Post #102 (isolation #14) » Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:46 am

JDodge wrote:
q21 wrote:Wish washy: huh?

Non-committal: How is a vote non-committal?

Follow-what-the-town's-majority-seems-to-think: Didn't realise that two people were the town majority.
Sudden swap from vig.

It was fairly obvious that the Incog wagon was going to gain substantial momentum.

Okay. I changed because I finally got a chance to read some of PYP 2 and all the post game talk - like you suggested - and decided that I was incorrect in my view that daytalk would definitely help the scum.

q21 · Post Post #112 (isolation #15) » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:12 am

Patrick wrote:
Supersaint wrote:You are a supersaint. If you are lynched at any point in the game, the person who casts the final vote on you will also die.

Encryptor wrote:You are an encryptor. At one point in the game, you may choose to permanently hide the role/alignment of a lynched player, by sending me the order to do so at any time before they are lynched. Further, as long as you are alive, the mafia can freely daytalk.

If a supersaint is lynched the scum can try to hide it all they like, but we'd know as the hammer vote would die too.

The encryptor can only hide lynch results. The hammer vote would be killed by the supersaint, not lynched, therefore we'd get their CF result too.

So, in essence I like Ether's plan.

q21 · Post Post #116 (isolation #16) » Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:44 am

I did what you said I should (read some of PYP 2) and because of that I agreed with you (that daytalk can hurt the scum) and that is substantial reason for a lynch?

q21 · Post Post #124 (isolation #17) » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:38 am

Same reason as JDodge or armlx, scotmany12 or a something else I haven't tried to explain 3 times.

q21 · Post Post #137 (isolation #18) » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:06 am

I'll admit that I have no clue what to make of Incognito's little outburst. Getting replaced because people vote for you is immature I think, but I have no clue whether it makes him scummy or not. I don't like this wagon anymore.

unvote: Incognito

q21 · Post Post #141 (isolation #19) » Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:17 am

I wasn't sure he was scummy before and now I have no clue what to think. I wasn't going to leave a vote on someone who was at what, L-2, in that kind of situation. You want to find that suspicious, go ahead.

q21 · Post Post #146 (isolation #20) » Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:32 am

JDodge, nearly all of your day one pasts have been aimed at me. Initially you thought I was suspicious because of my change from vig to encryptor. I have tried to explain this 3 or 4 times already, but I'll try once more as you don't seem to pay attention to any of my posts unless you can accuse me in some way for them.

My issue with the encryptor was with the daytalking. I was advised to read some of PYP 2 to see why that worry was unfounded. Advice given to me by you, I might add. My opinion was changed by the post game comments of the mafia who said that daytalk was one of the things that screwed them over. Is this the way you respond to everyone who follows advice you give them?

This is your last post:

JDodge wrote:Seriously, how can anyone not think that q21 is scum now?

Once again, reiterating that I'm scum: this time based on the fact that I had removed my Incognito vote. I've never seen someone ask to be replaced because people were voting for them; this is mafia, people get lynched... from time to time its going to be you. I had no idea what to think his outburst. The fact that he has recently retracted his request could hint at the whole thing being a scummy ploy to get this kind of response out of people like me... but maybe not, I don't know.

JDodge wrote:
Elmo wrote:this incognito wagon is now officially worse than cancer
i'd say worse than cancer mixed with AIDS with a strong dose of Ebola myself

This was your response to Incognito's outburst, you quite clearly state that you think the wagon is crap and then you seem to be blaming me for getting off it... a bit of a contradiction there... maybe... yeah I think so.

q21 · Post Post #148 (isolation #21) » Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:45 am

He hadn't decided to stay when I jumped off, and I'm not sure I want to jump back on just yet.

q21 · Post Post #167 (isolation #22) » Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:48 pm

Ether wrote:Uh.

So can we get more fighting between Incognito/q21 and their wagonners? Stuff from Flameaxe and Coron?
Why am I backing Incognito up after voting him a page ago? I'll never get used to that.
Alternatively, can we just lynch Mellowed? Ashmite should hammer.

Post 154, Ashmite wrote:Nothin' wrong with an early L-2 in a game this size: you can get info and the wagon itself can be telling.
What did you get?

I'll also be on vacation soon.

Its not really fighting, its them voting for me followed by ignoring my attempts to answer their reasons.

q21 · Post Post #172 (isolation #23) » Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:26 am

scotmany12 wrote:
q21 wrote:Its not really fighting, its them voting for me followed by ignoring my attempts to answer their reasons.
I know I'm not ignoring them, and I'm pretty sure JD and armlx is not as well. It's really just us not being pleased with your attempts to defend yourself.

Then at least say that. The fact that no one even mentioned my attempts at defence makes it feel like they are being ignored. In what way are you not pleased?

scotmany12 wrote:
q21 wrote:I wasn't sure he was scummy before and now I have no clue what to think. I wasn't going to leave a vote on someone who was at what, L-2, in that kind of situation. You want to find that suspicious, go ahead.
So you were participating in a wagon on someone who you weren't even sure if they were scummy or not? Were you going to unvote even if Incog didn't have his little outburst? From what I gather, your reason for unvoting him was because of his outburst. So yeah, I am still happy with my vote on you.

However, I have found ashmite suspicious when rereading. I look forward to seeing what his replacement has to offer to the game.

So I will be away Sunday and Monday. I have a reception for college. I should be back Monday night.

I wasn't 100% sure he was guilty, but he was the most guilty looking to me so, no, I wouldn't have removed my vote without his little outburst. The fact that he eventually chose not to be replaced is a little suspicious, but I still don't really know what to think of it.

q21 · Post Post #193 (isolation #24) » Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:12 am

And if she really is going somewhere and won't be able to post? Would you like us to lynch a possible cop?

q21 · Post Post #197 (isolation #25) » Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:52 am

Vote Mellowed Man

For automatically dismissing babygirl's role claim.

q21 · Post Post #229 (isolation #26) » Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:12 pm

You want to die?.. what?

q21 · Post Post #235 (isolation #27) » Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:31 pm

I could hammer, but it would mean removing my vote until he reaches L-1. That would put him back to L-3. If a few more people indicate that they want me to, then I will.

q21 · Post Post #245 (isolation #28) » Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:28 pm

Hider = 3 points
Cop = 5 points

3 + 3 + 5 = 11 points

1 point left means that we have to have a super saint. There's no other option. This makes it important that we also decide who places the hammer vote in each game.

Unless they gave us more than the required number of power role points...

q21 · Post Post #270 (isolation #29) » Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:16 am

JDodge - if you're going to waste yet another day with your vote sitting on me at least do so with a post more than one line long.

q21 · Post Post #273 (isolation #30) » Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:35 am

First, q21 is male...

Second, I have no clue why how Ether's logic makes me town. Its a correct conclusion, but I'm not sure how it was arrived at.

Third, I will endeavour to explicitly state my reasons for things as I do them. If I get lynched for my change from vig to encryptor so be it. I've given up on trying to convince people on that count.

Fourth, I haven't been original because most of the time people have gotten to things before me. So I just agree instead.

Finally.

Vote Dave

for either being scum and finishing of a townie as quickly as possible. OR voting towards the end of a day without checking the current game status. Either deserves a vote.

q21 · Post Post #286 (isolation #31) » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:11 am

I think Dave should hang. He's probably scum. If he's town he's not thinking straight and is no real help to us.

q21 · Post Post #291 (isolation #32) » Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:30 am

Marmalade wrote:
q21 wrote:I think Dave should hang. He's probably scum. If he's town he's not thinking straight and is no real help to us.
But... he'd be town? Even if he's a bit useless, that isn't a reason to lynch someone.

This seems like a way of saying "gee, he's scum, but if he isn't then he was useless town, so it doesn't matter!" Sounds like a way of covering one's bases, so to speak.

FoS: q21

So with the vig thing I get in trouble for not saying everything that's on my mind and now I get in trouble for the opposite... Basically I think he's scummy. The second part allows for the possibility of his being town and the fact that I could be convinced to remove my vote if he starts playing like it.

q21 · Post Post #294 (isolation #33) » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:37 am

Dave wrote:
q21 wrote:
Marmalade wrote:
q21 wrote:I think Dave should hang. He's probably scum. If he's town he's not thinking straight and is no real help to us.
But... he'd be town? Even if he's a bit useless, that isn't a reason to lynch someone.

This seems like a way of saying "gee, he's scum, but if he isn't then he was useless town, so it doesn't matter!" Sounds like a way of covering one's bases, so to speak.

FoS: q21
So with the vig thing I get in trouble for not saying everything that's on my mind and now I get in trouble for the opposite...
Basically I think he's scummy.
The second part allows for the possibility of his being town and the fact that I could be convinced to remove my vote if he starts playing like it.
And your reasons are? [/b]

My reasons? Apart from the generally scummy vibe I get from you, they are twofold.

Dave wrote:
elvis_knits wrote:So I'm not done rereading yet. I'll do a better post tomorrow or the next day after I finish.

But I want to say... Dave posted 5 times total so far, voted incognito with no explanation and then just reguritated other people's reason's when questioned. Then he hammered mellowed man with no fear that mellowed might be a super saint. Probably because scum know if/who the super saint is.
I voted MM without looking at the vote count, so I didnt know mine would be the hammer. A lesson learnt I suppose

You say you hammered him accidentally. Not a smart move, a fairly silly one actually. The other option is you're scum lynching a townie at the first given opportunity. Personally I chose to assume that people who play this game are not silly, or stupid or intellectually handicapped in any way. This makes the second option more likely.

Dave wrote:
scotmany12 wrote:Um, since when would scum know who the supersaint is? They would know if there was one, but not who it is.
I agree, if the mafia did know who the pro town players where the game would be a walk in the park for them, they would just kill of the pro town one by one, and then work on diverting attention from themselves and getting townies lynched. I think the possibility of the mafia knowing the pro town players is slim, thus
Fos elvis_knits

You say you think that the chances of scum knowing who has the power roles is slim (a point I agree on). Your FoS on elvis_knits is for post 247 where she seems to suggest the opposite. This doesn't really make sense to me. If you believed that the scum would know who/if the roles were and she displayed some of that kind of knowledge then it would make sense.

I would think the fact that what she thinks about the scum is probably less correct would point toward her being town more than scum. I think your logic here is backwards and confusing.

q21 · Post Post #310 (isolation #34) » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:58 am

scotmany12 wrote:
Vote: q21

q21 is still mostly from my reasonings from yesterday. His wishy washyness on Incognito, "I'm not sure why some of you think he is evil," calls the bandwagon "decent" and then he proceeds to say that he wasn't sure if he was scummy or not, while still allowing the wagon to grow to l-2.

And today, it seems he doesn't even care if Dave is scum or not.
q21 wrote:
Vote Dave
for either being scum and finishing of a townie as quickly as possible. OR voting towards the end of a day without checking the current game status. Either deserves a vote.
So are you saying that in the second possibility he is town? Cause it sounds like that. Why would he deserve a vote for that?
q21 wrote:I think Dave should hang. He's probably scum. If he's town he's not thinking straight and is no real help to us.
I just have a bad feeling about both of these posts. Very little substance to his attack; just doesn't feel right to me.

Elmo wrote:
Incognito wrote:Is there any reason in particular that you're voting for scotmany12?
too... coasty, staying-in-the-background-y, like, want moar out of him
I have to say, this is very ironic coming from you. Funny guy...

I do care if he's scum or not. If he's town he deserves the vote because it might make him pay more attention... and not hammer someone without looking, for example. If he's scum (as I think he is at the moment) he deserves more than just a vote, he deserves to die.

q21 · Post Post #325 (isolation #35) » Thu May 01, 2008 9:47 pm

With Dave at L-2 is it time where we start thinking about who should hammer him if it come to that? Personally I think Elmo should.

q21 · Post Post #327 (isolation #36) » Thu May 01, 2008 10:14 pm

Nice try? I willing to do it, but at that point the only person who had even mentioned it was armlx. I'm not going to unvote and wait for the hammer to be handed to me on only one person's bidding.

q21 · Post Post #342 (isolation #37) » Fri May 02, 2008 9:29 am

Pink Puppy wrote:Don't hammer yourself yet.

Not before everybody gets to discuss.

In general, this is good idea though. Everyone needs to hammer themselves.

Excuse my ignorance... but who are you... you aren't on the player list... I'm confused.

q21 · Post Post #344 (isolation #38) » Fri May 02, 2008 10:08 am

Why do you think everyone should hammer themselves? That destroys the possibility of a super saint taking a scum with them.

q21 · Post Post #347 (isolation #39) » Fri May 02, 2008 10:41 am

@elvis_knits - wasn't properly tying everything together with you and your alt yet.

q21 · Post Post #352 (isolation #40) » Sat May 03, 2008 4:03 am

You still there armlx? Since your the only one who actually seems to care about doing this I'll go along with it.

If you haven't voted by the time I have to go I'll put my vote back, until then...

unvote Dave

q21 · Post Post #354 (isolation #41) » Sat May 03, 2008 4:41 am

vote Dave

I guess the me hammering him isn't going to happen for a while then.

Also, ether... who's defending Coron? No one's even really mentioned him today.

q21 · Post Post #377 (isolation #42) » Mon May 05, 2008 10:25 am

Just a heads up. I have a monster project due for Friday and as such I will be on self imposed limited access until the weekend. I will still try to keep up, answer any direct questions and vote where necessary- but no promises.

At this point JDodge and armlx have explicitly stated that they would like me to hammer. Are there others who agree?

q21 · Post Post #407 (isolation #43) » Wed May 07, 2008 9:04 am

Elmo wrote:This is a post!

This is a lurker.

q21 · Post Post #446 (isolation #44) » Sat May 10, 2008 1:39 am

Just finished catching up and I am happy with where my vote is now, on Dave.

What about my posts make me obviously scum?

q21 · Post Post #463 (isolation #45) » Mon May 12, 2008 4:26 am

Ether wrote:Will {JDodge, Sarcastro, DGB} please stop {messing with DGB, fucking around in general, listening to JDodge}? Cheers.

Q21 is eh. His wagon has always felt like a distraction to me, but his own actions are less than compelling. What do you think of the Xtoxmwagon, Q21?

Sarcastro, how does "the two posts directly above yours both contain votes for Xtoxm, who you are unwilling to mention directly" equate to "listening to [ourselves] talk"? Seriously.

Just for reference, have you
ever
been accurate in stubborn mode this early? What about accurate and successful? Why do you bother?

Post 444, JDodge wrote:Xtoxm makes minimal sense as Incog's scumbuddy based on those posts when you look at WEM.
First, he was still more active there. Second, even if he wasn't, that game wasn't in
Incognito's
meta, so his lenience still doesn't make any sense if they aren't scum together.

What do I think of the Xtoxm wagon. I'm fairly neutral to it really. Yes, I agree he hasn't contributed much. That in an of itself is slightly scummy, but not enough for me to change my vote. Everything else is based on meta and personally I'm not a fan of meta-reasoning. Two reasons for that.

1) Until semester ends I have very little time to read previous games, the only one I've read to any extent was PYP2 as it has pretty direct bearing on how this game works. As for reading games just so see how poeple may or may not act given a certain situation... I just don't have the time for it.

2) I know I play differently just about every game, for a multitude of reasons with no bearing on my role in the game. There is nothing to stop this being true of everyone else.

So yeah, my vote stays on Dave. I would not be completely adverse to an Incog lynch, either.

q21 · Post Post #496 (isolation #46) » Tue May 13, 2008 9:02 am

Personally I feel this is just the way Coron plays. Its annoying but I don't think he's scum.

q21 · Post Post #511 (isolation #47) » Wed May 14, 2008 11:48 am

Xtoxm wrote:Why are you trying to tell me who to vote for?

The fact that they want you to hammer is based on the Super Saint possibility. Get the second scummiest guy to hammer the scummiest guy. That way if you lynching a SS you have a chance of hitting scum anyway.

Personally I'd like Elmo or Dave to hammer and you can lynch the other one tomorrow.

q21 · Post Post #547 (isolation #48) » Fri May 16, 2008 11:06 am

Your ability to tell who is or isn't town is broken, you should have it fixed.

q21 · Post Post #549 (isolation #49) » Fri May 16, 2008 11:13 am

I tried that, no one believed anything I had to say and as town I am not about to lie to keep myself alive...

At this point I feel that whatever I say will not be enough to stop people thinking I'm scummy even if it could keep me alive for today. As such the best thing I can think of now is to be lynched and thus removed from the suspect pool allowing the rest of the town to find the real scum.

q21 · Post Post #567 (isolation #50) » Sat May 17, 2008 11:12 am

The fact that no one seems to possess the balls to hammer me is disturbing. The reluctance of those called upon to hammer me should be looked at.

q21 · Post Post #580 (isolation #51) » Mon May 19, 2008 4:01 am

unvote

Dave/Gorrad lynch isn't going to happen is it...

q21 · Post Post #609 (isolation #52) » Mon May 19, 2008 7:23 pm

armlx wrote:
Coron wrote:
armlx wrote:
Coron wrote:
armlx wrote:
Coron wrote:
armlx wrote:
Coron wrote:
armlx wrote:
Coron wrote:Is scotmany lynched yet?
No, but q21 isn't. Care to help?
Why q21 and not Scotmany? Scotmany is much more scummy.
Why?
I suspect it is because Scotmany is scum.
Why do you suspect this?
Because the way scotmany is acting is scummy.
What specifically about his actions makes you think he is acting
scummy?
His posts have been scummy.
Which posts? Quotes with explanations as to why they are scummy.

Quotes with explanations as to why q21 is scummy? O, right... you've never done that have you armlx. Pushing someone for something you've never offered yourself, unless I'm much mistaken.

vote armlx

q21 · Post Post #619 (isolation #53) » Tue May 20, 2008 9:39 am

armlx wrote:You pushed against the vig then revoted it once it gained steam and hame defended against it by complete ignorance (major scum tactic), acted like you were going ot hammer DAve then just decided you weren't. Plus this

I never specifically pushed against the vig. That was the encryptor and my only mistake in moving my vote to it was not offering complete reasons as I did it. Based of that kind of thing I'm surprised players such as yourself and JDodge last two pages in this game.

Also I never got the chance to hammer Dave, I honestly would have. I removed my vote and then he was never at L-1 again... that is hardly my fault.

armlx wrote:
q21 wrote:
unvote

Dave/Gorrad lynch isn't going to happen is it...
Just wanting a lynch... nice one.

All these things but the last have been discussed in regards to you many times before. No need to keep repeating them.

Wanting a Dave lynch, not just any lynch. I felt he was scum and still suspect Gorrad a little bit.

You don't even have your all facts straight about why you want to lynch me. Basically your pushing my lynch because you believe it would be one of the easiest to get through. You, sir are the one simply looking for a lynch. You sir are scum.

I know I may be hammered at any time, but you people are making a mistake. I'm rarely sure about much in this game, but I am sure that armlx is scum.

q21 · Post Post #623 (isolation #54) » Tue May 20, 2008 10:05 am

armlx wrote:1) I don't care if you pushed against it, its that you were an opportunist in revoting it.

2) You revoted Dave before he had the chance to get to L-1 again. Thats my issue.

1) I never revoted anything. I voted vig, then changed to encryptor for perfectly viable reasons which I, unfortunately, didn't state then and there. As such no one seems to believe my reasons.

2) I didn't revote Dave until it became clear that that wagon was failing from loss of momentum. My revote was to get it moving again... even with that it never got back to L-1.

q21 · Post Post #626 (isolation #55) » Tue May 20, 2008 11:09 am

So armlx complains that I lack the ability to defend myself, but when I try to he flatly refuses to believe anything I say... I fail to see how that is my fault.

armlx is a better lynch than q21, this I promise you... unfortunately I doubt anyone will believe me until I'm dead and patrick reveals my alignment as town.

q21 · Post Post #640 (isolation #56) » Tue May 20, 2008 7:17 pm

*dies*

q21 · Post Post #1480 (isolation #57) » Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:48 am

One dumbass mistake of not sayign everything I was thinking. guess I deserved the day two lynch.... not doing that again.

q21 · Post Post #1485 (isolation #58) » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:16 am

elmo wrote:q21: No pro-town player 'deserves' to be lynched unless they're lying or something. I fucked up with Incognito. Everyone on your wagon fucked up. It happens, but it needs to be acknowledged. I didn't think your wagon was very good; possibly you could have defended yourself better, or looked more pro-town, but ultimately people voted for someone who was pro-town, which is a mistake. If you want, PM me and I'll look over it more closely.

When I said deserved it I meant that I'd done something for which I could not offer a defence that satisfied anyone. I don't see how I could have defended myself any better. Most of the suspicion thrown my way stemmed from my final vote in the Scum Role Pick. The explanation I gave was the truth and even if I'd lied I don't see how I could have better defended myself.