Mini 586 - Blood Red Mafia - Game Over!

[populartajo]

Posting here to let you know that Im very busy today and tomorrow. Catching up asap.2

[populartajo]

Im back. Hi, all.
It seems I lost the random stage, but luckily this means zero to nothing in finding scum, so lets get serious, ok?
Thoughts.

BabyShamble, you alone remain silent. Hopefully the conclusion of the weekend will help promote your involvement. Else what shall be done, my random FOS may advance to a vote.

Is this a random comment?

I'm just trying to start some conversation. What's wrong with that?

I've heard this line a million and one times and I still dont know why I dislike it so much.

Vote: Travis You seem to be too quiet for comfort.

So it wasnt random. You definitely hate lurkers, right?

I was testing a theory that you seemed a bit jumpy in your responses to stuff flying around in the random voting stage.
You just flunked the test. Badly. And get to keep the vote as a result.

I dont like this, seriously.

FoS : Macavenger.

About caf19, whats the problem with him?

[populartajo]

Why don't you like my scumhunting technique? Explain.

Because:
a) it can still hunt eager townies.
b) I dont see how you can catch scum with overreaction.

[populartajo]

Populartajo, why is it you dont think reactions can be used to find scum? I dont think that they should be the sole reasoning for scum accusations, but I do think they can be helpful.

I already said that there's no way Macavenger could be 100% sure that his "test" could catch scum, since eager townie can also answer that provocation. About reactions, it seems to me that everyone can react differently, they're helpful, I know, but they dont prove anything.
I didnt like his last response, BTW.

Vote : Macavenger.

Also, there's something that bothers me about Shepherd, he feels like he's hunting too much for my taste. Idk, yet.
And can anyone tell me whats the problem with caf?

[populartajo]

About reactions, it seems to me that everyone can react differently, they're helpful, I know, but they dont prove anything.

When did I ever say I thought it proved anything? The only real proof in mafia comes with death.

Ok, lets do this together.

I was testing a theory that you seemed a bit jumpy in your responses to stuff flying around in the random voting stage.
You just flunked the test. Badly. And get to keep the vote as a result.

Why did he flunk the test? For being jumpy? What does his reaction prove?

I didnt like his last response, BTW.

What didn't you like about it?

Everything.

A) Possibly. But it's far more likely to catch scum.

Why? Because eager townies are scum too?

B) Reactions are what this game is all about. Scum are more likely to overreact because they have more to lose by dying than a townie does.

No, scum can simply ignore you and a townie can overreact to an acussation because duh, you're accusing of something he or she is not.. My point is that although reactions are helpful, your "test" doesnt prove who's scum or who's not.

[populartajo]

Waiting for Macavenger.

[populartajo]

A) Possibly. But it's far more likely to catch scum.

Why? Because eager townies are scum too?

Of course they aren't. Eager townies are more likely to respond with questions, trying to figure out the motives of odd behavior, rather than with near OMGUS levels of suspicion.

Whats the problem with Malthusis reacting with an OMGUS? Its pretty possible that a townie could have reacted like that because again, the only thing you did was post : "Vote: Malthusis" with no explanation at all. Again, he could be scum, I know that someone will come up with : oh, god he's so defending him, but my point is that his reactions dont prove anything and make wonder abour your reasoning, Macavenger. Seriously.

Everyone is scummy until proven otherwise. A good method is to apply some pressure and see if they provide any/more scum tells or not.

Ok, what made you decide to pressure me specifically, instead of one of the other 10 players in the game?

I bet Malthusis is asking himself the same question.

Zealous scumhunting is a very good thing. The idea that someone scumhunting too hard is suspicious is not a good one; see Too Townie. If you think he's making flawed arguments, call him for that, but thinking he's suspicious for trying too hard is not productive.

I know about too townie but theres something that feels weird in his posting, I dont know yet.

In fact, Malthusis has not actually done any scumhunting in this game, unless you want to count his overblown, OMGUSy accusation of me on page 2. My vote is staying on him now for this reason.

So, conclusion, what are your reasons for voting him: reacting or not scumhunting?

Is it not possible that malth is a nervous Vanilla? or a Cop or something who it will harm the town to kill?

Defending a scumbuddy?

Is this a serious accusation?

FoS: Rice

Rice, who do you suspect and why?

[populartajo]

Bleh, Im going to sound like Im Mr. Defender, but why are you people disliking Darla? Anyone would like to make a case against her cause the only thing Im seeing is "oh, she's defending her scumbuddies". Why not attacking them, then?
Bleh x2, Ive been expecting a decent post from Malthius since the Macavenger attacks and he hasnt posted it yet, although he just posted one in another game Im with him. This, I agree, doesnt feel like townie eagerness. However, for the record, I still dislike the way Macavenger jumped against him and its been noted for posterior analysis. Thats why Id like that you, Mac, post your reasons for picking specially Malthius. And if you would have picked someone else, who would have been?
Bonus Bleh. Add this to the things I dislike about Macavenger.

I was still being deliberately opaque at this point because I was still testing to see what kind of replies I would get from tajo and Malth. They've both pretty much reacted to everything I wanted to see though, so there's not much point in me continuing to be so obscure at this stage.

Again, it sincerely sounds to me like "Hey, Im scum, I found a perfect opportunity to mislynch someone since he "reacted" badly" Dude, everyone could have reacted badly to "Vote:you".
Bleh x3. Appart from this Mac-Mat situation, I havent found anything decent to comment on. I will do a reread to find more. For now, I still dont like the way Shepperd sometimes scumhunt but its just me I guess. The too townie argument kicks my ass. Also Im very suspicious of the people jumping against Darla and Id like that they make a solid case against her.
Bleh x 4. Apparently there's not many gaborage in this game. Why is that?

[populartajo]

EBWOP
Also Im very suspicious of the people jumping against Darla and Id like that they make a solid case against her, besides caf19.

[populartajo]

The reaction I got is more likely to come from scum that town. That's the entire essence of scumtells, things that are more likely to be done by scum than by town. It's a relatively small thing, but this started on page 2. There isn't much to go on on page 2.

Is it too hard to understand my point? I know that there are things that are more likely done by scum but even you are realizing that there isnt much to go on page 2. I understand why you picked Malthius, but why didnt you explain yourself when you voted for him? Why dont people here understand that its a decent reaction to suspect and to Major FOS someone that only posts "vote : Malthius"? What does a reaction prove?
Thats my point.
It would have been helpful to link you to my first game in this place. Newbie 499. It would help you to understand where Im coming from and why Im so against this kind of playstyle. IH, scum in this game, was trying to set a trap, also adding that people who reacted badly enough to his trap were almost certainly scum. I argued hard against him with the same point. A reaction could prove anything but against newbies (this also seems to be the case here) we should be careful enough, since we dont know if we could catch dumb townies, almost making it a null tell.

Why is caf19 getting a pass on the case and I'm not?

Im talking about some other players, Mac. They know who they are and Im still waiting. The fact that I didnt include you is most due to the fact that I simply dont like you. Caf made a good post about her, BTW, hence the free pass.

I feel much the same about this as about the pointless argument above. You admit you have no rational reason to suspect SoW here, but you bring it up anyway because?

Because its definetely better to be quiet about my suspicions or things I dont like, Yeah sure.
Answering to Shepherd's post when I have the time to reread that.
Just a small question, why exactly are you suspecting me, Shepherd?
And just a bonus paragraph for you, friend. Im not defending anyone. Everyone is suspicious to me. My point is that Malthius and Darla are relative newbies, Im not saying they're 100% townies or 100% scum, but they are so easy to be attacked and Im not liking some attacks, especially against Darla. Thats all. If you read my posts, I never said Malthius or Darla were confirmed townies for this. To be honest, it bothers me that Malthius is not well seen by almost all the town, yet he posts in another games and his only defense was quoting my ideas.
What I dont like is that you're stretching this a little too much for my taste. I feel the same about your eager scumhunting but its just a gut feeling I cant keep in my mind.

[populartajo]

Shepherd, why do you exactly suspect me?

[populartajo]

A Major FoS is way the hell out of place on Page 2

Why is a Major FoS hell out of place on Page 2 and not a Vote:Malthius? Macavenger, we are never going to stop arguing. I simply dont buy your trap excuse, independant of your or Malthius allignement. I hope he is scum, he has fcked up this town with his lurking, pretty everyone are suspecting him or Darla, it has prevented us for truly scumhunting. Just tell me one more thing, what would happen if we lynch him and he comes up town?

If you're referring to the "I saw a huge scumtell" schtick, I still don't see how that's related.

It was a trap. IH even said it was a trap. It's totally related with the only exception that no one felt in it. Later he explained that people reacting bad enough were possibly scum. My point is that he's using the same weak argument (null reactions) as a way to catch scum. Some things I posted about him.

IH : ..... I also consider the "I found a big scumtell" tactic a little bit strange because it is just trying to confuse town. Maybe, looking for someone inexperienced, a possible mistake and the start of a "distractive" bandwagon.

What does it differentiate from IC scum trying to get suspicious reactions (especially from newbie townies) so that he can develop his strategy from them?

He was finally scum. Now, do you understand me?

Do you agree or disagree that Malthusis' actions independent of my test have been scummy?

Sadly I agree.

If you have something rational to back them up, by all means let us know. That's what I did with DBE. Making baseless claims doesn't help the town, though. If you have nothing specific, it looks like you're trying to push a negative impression over a helpful player to undermine his efforts, which can only help scum.

You make a good point here. But don't you think Shepherd's trifecta is way too much?

Why do you feel the need to claim you aren't defending Darla and Malthusis when you very blatantly are?

Becuase Im not. My siding with Malthius was totally due to the fact of my disliking of your trap. For Darla, I dont like the way some people are jumping in her bandwagon becuase I sincerely think she's a newbie having a hard time defending herself.

[populartajo]

Oh no.
Responding later.

[populartajo]

Sure, I didn't accompany mine with a joke reason, and I expected him to ask about that. Asking about it is fine. A Major FoS, however, is something you don't see on page 2, and implies very serious suspicions about a person.

A vote would have been fine? Mac, have you done this before? Can you link me to some games where you've used this "reaction" test at the beginning of a game?

No, we will pretty soon, because I'm going to quit bothering to reply pretty soon unless you bring up some new arguments that I haven't already snapped in half.

Snapped in half? Where?

Sucks for town that we got a townie who decided to act suspicious and then give up.

So lets lynch him and lets lynch his defenders. Right. Do you suspect anyone else than the possible trifecta? Have you at least cared to meta Malthusis?

It's not going to cause me to think my method is invalid, if that's what you're asking. Malth has done too much other scummy stuff this game to make me give up on it

You have a point here. I'd sincerely be in your ass and pushing your lynch if Malthusis hadn't decided to give up against your weak logic, lurk and ask for a replacement.

Ok, I didn't read it quite carefully enough to find those. I still find that nowhere near the vehemence with which you are arguing against me, though.

Ok, if you want to argue about what happened in that game and compare it with what you're doing here then you have to read carefully. IMO, theya re different situations, but its the same point. I think this shows it better :

What does it differentiate from IC scum trying to get suspicious reactions (especially from newbie townies) so that he can develop his strategy from them?

About the vehemence, I think its pretty obvious. Being that my first game, I had no experience regarding this "tests". Also, I didnt know the allignment of IH.

With Darla though, I mean you say right there you think she's a newbie having a hard time defending herself, so you're... helping her defend herself. You're telling people we're not attacking her for good reasons and trying to get us to stop. That's defending.

My opinion of Darla is already known. I sincerely think she's a newbie having a hard time defending agaisnt enormous posts. She likes to defend. Even, IIRC, she said that she would like people to defend her if the cases against her were weak to illogic. I assume that's why she likes doing it.
I also see on her a problem of lack of condifence. It would prob explain the way she's voted during the game. Overall, my read on her is an active newbie townie, suspected weakly for his connections with a player that at this point of the game and if he isnt scum, has sincerely fckd this day.
If you call disliking weak logic and not going against my reading of a player, defending, then thats what Im doing.




[/quote]

[populartajo]

Now, Shepherd. Ugh, this boy likes to write and I like to bold. All ok.

You suggest that they

[reactions]

are helpful. So, if they do not prove 100%, do you suppose they are "more likely" to indicate scum. If they are not "more likely" to come from scum, then how do you seem them as helpful?

They are helpful becuase they teach us about how a player usually plays this game. They even could indicate allignment, (Im pretty sure some noob scum could have made an obvius slip), but in this case, Malthius reactions to Mac test, independent of both's allignment, dont prove that he's scum, not even "more likely". And, Shepher if you say you understand my dislike, why do you keep asking this?

In fact, Malthusis has not actually done any scumhunting in this game, unless you want to count his overblown, OMGUSy accusation of me on page 2. My vote is staying on him now for this reason.

So, conclusion, what are your reasons for voting him: reacting or not scumhunting?

What about this question. Mac said, he is voting for the initial overreaction and then further the next reason comes from his lack of scum hunting. What is the point to your question.

My point to that question simply asking Mac what were his real reasons for suspecting Mal. Valid reason : lack of scumhunting, lurking, etc. Invalid reason : null reaction to a illogic test.

The thing next that you say is part of the

possible

trifecta argument that I proposed earlier. You start the whole disregard for the attack on Darla by defending both Darla and Malthusis (by defending the defense of malthusis made by Darla). You seem to want to make their connection together seem like it is not a real sign. This comes on top of defending malthusis the whole game prior. Here is the quote.

Is it not possible that malth is a nervous Vanilla? or a Cop or something who it will harm the town to kill?

Defending a scumbuddy?

Is this a serious accusation?

FoS: Rice

Rice, who do you suspect and why?

Why does it bother you that Rice saw that connection?

Seems like a cheap way to attack someone, jumping against her with pretty much no backup, only "defending a scumbuddy". I even asked if that was a serious accusation. Got no answer. Also, what do you think of Rice?

Bleh, Im going to sound like Im Mr. Defender, but why are you people disliking Darla? Anyone would like to make a case against her cause the only thing Im seeing is "oh, she's defending her scumbuddies". Why not attacking them, then?

So, you further keep defending your second pick to defend.

Read answer to Mac

What is the question at the end of this quote. malthusis is already under attack. That was her suspected scum buddy. You joined the suspected group

Uhhh, when?

by repeated defending malthusis and now defending her, his other defender. The three of you seem to be on the same page.

It almost seems like scum would try to avoid this.

Glad you noticed this.

So, maybe one of the three of you are innocent. Maybe you like to have her helping the defense on malthusis so that it does not make you look alone.

You're taking this too far away and you know that, yet you keep on doing it. Why?

I am still trying to piece the meaning together.

Go, go, go. After your failed attacks to the trifecta, now you realize that its better to just lynch only two. Good. Who do you want lynched: Malthusis and me? Darla and Mal?

As stated before, started to distance yourself from malthusis only after no one else agreed with you. You still work hard at this whole point that has been resolved.

When was I with Malthusis? Im not defending him, Shepherd. As you like to write, try reading the posts, okay? I dont care if no one agree with me as long as I feel Im right about cases but I dont remember having distanced from a dumb player.

The Darla connection continues. So, you mention gaborage; why not Travis, why not Coheed? These people are equally annoyingly silent at that phase of the game. Plus, they both have super pointless things to add.

Im in some games with gaborage, specially War in Heaven, where I noticed his massive participation in that game and not here. Hence the suspicion. Null tell after his answer where he explained that he liked more some games than others. About the other people, Travis seems a little too quiet from the game I remember with him, might need a reread, and Coheed, not too much to say about him, hasnt done anything scummy IIRC.

I am glad to ruffle some feathers. If I did not get under some players skin, then I would not be doing my job.

You're doing it wrong.

It just happens to be getting under you skin.

Thats why its wrong

. You are defending players.

Who?

Your denial does not make that less than true. What is up with this 100% stuff. Only one group has 100% knowledge of who is on what side of town.

Scum! Bonus points?

How can you expect us to present 100% proof.

I never asked for it

No, you did not prove that they are 100% scum or 100% town.

Thats why Im not attacking someone with all I have.

Why are you so concerned with malthusis bad appearance.

I am not.

Is there some reason that you do not want him lynched?

When did I say that?

Maybe you taste buds are tainted with blood. Maybe, I am getting close to you.

Eww, go away

. Darla, may possible be innocent, I know she does seem very new.

Finally, do we agree?

But, I do not see that as the trump all. Malthusis is beyond annoying for quiting the game.

Agree

. I feel bad for his replacement. But, you do not sit well with me as I have outlined in this post.

Tell me, other than Darla being new at this, why else do you defend her?

Gut? Disliking how some people have attacked her?

What has she said to give you confidence in her being pro town?

Not too much explicitly, read my analysis of her

. I do not like you 100% standard that you expect Mac to answer too.

I never asked one. What bothers me is that he seems to think is 100% accurate

What makes her likely to be town by way of analyzing her posts?

Wait, didnt you think he was possible innocent?

I am not 100% sure of any player. But, you seem to have more knowledge than the rest of us, why don't you give some to us.

Because I dont have it, Shepherd

.

Happy?

[populartajo]

Sorry for the triple post. But I just realized my post was some big sht.
For people who doesnt like to read.
Mac was still defending his way of catching scum. I strongly disagree. Notice this in case its necessary. Prob the discussion will never end.
Malthusis is scummy independent of this test, as Mac has well noticed. He's fked up this day and I feel bad for OG as he's possibly the lynch for the day.
Shepherd still is too eager to scumhunt. Not so fan of this. Not too townie argument involved, BTW. He's taken his accusations far from what I would like. Trifecta much? Darla possible innocent but still asking why Im "defending" her?
About other players, bleh, this Malthusis situation, (Im partially guilty for this) has taken people away from sincere scumhunting. People are just, "well lets lynch Malthusis and lets lynch Darla for being his possible scumpartner" I mean, WTF?

[populartajo]

Some quick rereading and some quotes Id like to post. Dont get angry at me.

I agree that we definitely need to make a lynch today. I don't think the case on Smokedank is particularly strong,

Why?

Noon-early afternoonish, Amor.

LOL.

I'm leaving right now, but I'll Vote: OGSmokeDank I might be back to switch my vote, not sure though.

Mmmm.
Do me a favour. I want every people voting for Malthusis/ OG Smokedank

the exact

reason why are you voting for him. Im not saying dont lynch him cuz Im sure some random dude , cough Shepherd, will point this out.
Im just asking this, since I feel its possible that we could need this information later.

[populartajo]

No. This is only the third game I joined on this site, up to 5 total counting two I've joined since then. I haven't exactly had a lot of opportunities, especially since three of the games I either replaced into or didn't have a typical random voting phase. It's also far from a tactic I would use every game in any case; it's something I'd only use when I already thought a player was being too jumpy.

So, do you consider yourself a relative newbie? Then how do you know exactly what kind of reactions scum can give?

Any number of my replies where I explain why my technique is valid, that you've never given any reason for being false?

Please understand why your logic is not valid. Its useful, I already said why, but its far from catching scum with a safe percentage. Your tactic doesnt even get close to "more likely to catch scum" because for me, NOT EVERYONE REACTS THE SAME WAY AND YOU BASED YOUR FIRST SERIOUS ACCUSATIONS IN AN ANSWER THAT DIDNT SATISFY YOU. Who are you, Mac, to tell what's an scummy reaction or a decent answer?
That's exactly why I compared it with IH's trap. How do we know that for you a Major FoS is not a decent answer? Im not in your head and I dont know why in hell a Major FoS is a flunked test. Im not saying you're scum or that Malthius isnt. This is not an accusation. It's a simple dislike of your methods.

Because I had already seen a suspicious reaction this game. I was giving that behavior a chance to confirm or deny itself. IH was just flat fishing for something to work with.

Mac, dont lie, you were fishing too.

This is bullshit. Your main argument against my method the entire game has been that "it doesn't prove anything." Well no shit, I've already gone over how nothing "proves" anything in this game (except death), but that certain things are more likely to come from scum, and hence scumtells. Your response has always been more "that doesn't prove anything." So yes, you are essentially demanding 100% proof from me. As to the other side of that, taking a quick skim through my posts this game, I found at least 3 cases where I specifically state that I don't think my test is 100% accurate, or that I'm not entirely sure Malthusis is scum because of it, mostly in direct reply to you. You're either trying to twist my words here or horribly exaggerating statements for no good reason I can see.

populartajo appears to be explaining why he's arguing against my point more vehemently this game, by pointing out differences. He says it was his first game and he had less experience with subtle methods, which is fair. He then comments that he didn't know IH's alignment that game. Since he's pointing out reasons (i.e. differences) that cause him to react differently, this implies he does know my alignment in this game, which is only possible if he's scum.

Cut the crap, Mac. Im going to show you, step by step, slowly, Ok?. I thought I didnt need to.
Reasons

at that moment

for not arguing strongly against him:
a) Less experience. Check.
b) I didn't know IH's allignment. Problems.
Furher explication : Its valid to say that I didnt know if I was wrong (hence the soft arguments) becuase

at that moment

IH could have been a townie.
He was finally scum. His trap could definitely have catched a townie. Thats why I dislike these subtle methods.
Addendum : Thats why I'm having this argument with you, regarding your allignment. If you're scum you probably picked a good target. If you're town (even if Malthius is scum) then

you should revaluate your methods

. Seriously.
Check the itallics.

[populartajo]

Forget to answer this quote.

This is bullshit. Your main argument against my method the entire game has been that "it doesn't prove anything." Well no shit, I've already gone over how nothing "proves" anything in this game (except death), but that certain things are more likely to come from scum, and hence scumtells. Your response has always been more "that doesn't prove anything." So yes, you are essentially demanding 100% proof from me. As to the other side of that, taking a quick skim through my posts this game, I found at least 3 cases where I specifically state that I don't think my test is 100% accurate, or that I'm not entirely sure Malthusis is scum because of it, mostly in direct reply to you. You're either trying to twist my words here or horribly exaggerating statements for no good reason I can see.

But you were 100% sure he was scum, right?

I was testing a theory that you seemed a bit jumpy in your responses to stuff flying around in the random voting stage.

You just flunked the test. Badly. And get to keep the vote as a result.

Were you waiting another reaction? Why did you keep the vote? How sure were you at that moment? It smells, almost, like "pretty sure"
Mmmm.

I definitely think Malthusius isn't looking good right now, between his "Major FoS" on Macavenger and the use of "I did it to create conversation", which always makes me twitch. It's worth noting that in this case he wasn't even being called out for saying it, just disagreed with. At the very least, he's very defensive. FoS: Malthusius

Something strange I found rereading. Amor, why do you think his Major FoS is strange?

[populartajo]

I'm not going to bother arguing with populartajo about my scumhunting anymore; Malthusis/OG's alignment should clear up any remaining questions about that.

Lucky Malthius was scum, Mac. I would have defintely pushed your lynch today if Malthius had come up town. I guess I was somehow traumatized with my first game and that helped to heat the argument. However, that doesnt mean you're going to be that lucky everytime. Just to finish this argument, do you sincerely think Malthius was lynched for your famous reaction?
And Im sure anyone can make a good case against Darla, now that we know Malthius allignment. I feel she's a good lynch. Just read her posts knowing that Mal is a werewolf and you'll notice that.
Just in her case and rereading, Im going to acept I was pretty dumb defending her.

Vote : DBE

[populartajo]

Whats a martyr, BTW?

[populartajo]

[quote="Sheherd] I agree with the Darla wagon FoS: Darla. However, I am not ready to make it wagon of 4 or more until I reread. Xofelf is suspect to me because of Travis' playing style, or lack thereof. So, I will be watching you today. [/quote]
Wouldnt Shepherd the scumhunter vote for Darla? Why does he need a reread? Why dont I like this guy?

Tajo - Possible scum, seemed to really be against the Malth/Smoke lynch, but then again he was mainly doubtful for the reasons I was, which were Mac's reaction tester, which we now know works quite well. 70/30 town/scum

How am I "possible scum" and I am 70/30 town/scum?
Also, his reaction tester doesnt work. But Im going to stop arguing since Mac says he isnt going to use it anymore, right?

Vote: popular I'm going to go with what I perceive as common sense (chances are scum wouldn't want to vote for their buddy). Of the two folks who didn't vote for malth, I'd say popular is the more suspicious of the two. popular's post after the lynch and his vote for DBE seem like a buddying attempt (to town and to Mac), especially after his determined and prolonged attack on Mac.

Interesting post. Ive seen scum voting for their buddys a million times. Do you sincerely think there isnt a scum in Mal's wagon? And, do you think Darla is innocent?

[populartajo]

EBWOP: I so hate "" when this happens.
[quote="Shepherd] I agree with the Darla wagon FoS: Darla. However, I am not ready to make it wagon of 4 or more until I reread. Xofelf is suspect to me because of Travis' playing style, or lack thereof. So, I will be watching you today. [/quote]
Wouldnt Shepherd the scumhunter vote for Darla? Why does he need a reread? Why dont I like this guy?

Tajo - Possible scum, seemed to really be against the Malth/Smoke lynch, but then again he was mainly doubtful for the reasons I was, which were Mac's reaction tester, which we now know works quite well. 70/30 town/scum

How am I "possible scum" and I am 70/30 town/scum?
Also, his reaction tester doesnt work. But Im going to stop arguing since Mac says he isnt going to use it anymore, right?

Vote: popular I'm going to go with what I perceive as common sense (chances are scum wouldn't want to vote for their buddy). Of the two folks who didn't vote for malth, I'd say popular is the more suspicious of the two. popular's post after the lynch and his vote for DBE seem like a buddying attempt (to town and to Mac), especially after his determined and prolonged attack on Mac.

Interesting post. Ive seen scum voting for their buddys a million times. Do you sincerely think there isnt a scum in Mal's wagon? And, do you think Darla is innocent?[/quote]

[populartajo]

populartajo being off the wagon reinforces the idea that he could be scum. I put forth most of my reasoning for this yesterday, I think. Good bandwagon target for today. I may move my vote here from DBE after thinking about it more.

Mac, Im asking you the same question I asked to Gobororage. Do you sincerely think that there isnt a scum (or maybe both) in Malthius wagon? And I was off the wagon for many reasons. I guess it should be obvious. I think the principal reason is that I was still thinking that Mac could be scum (use of unorthodox methods) and therefore Mal and Darla would be innocent (just for the fact that Mac could be scum and that Ive seen many newbies acting scummy). Part of my siding with them all D1 is exactly all due to this. Please, notice how as the game progresses the discussion shifts to only a dislike of Mac's logic and that Mal could be scum. If you understand my reasoning then you would understand why I didnt vote.

Okay, now it is your turn to give a case for why you have flipped face on your stand for Darla. How does Malthusis identity all the sudden make you do a full 180 on your defense for Darla.

a)He was scum. b)He has scumpartners c)I was wrong.

Anytime some makes any accusations or inquires, especially about you, you always demand "why do suspect". Well, if you are going to actually take a stand, then do not be so double crossed and give no explanation. If it is one of you gut feelings again, then you loose all creditability with me. You better have logic and arguments.

I do use logic and arguments. I was the only one that took the opposite side all D1 and I did it with arguments. Im fine with that because I feel my resoning is valid. Today is diiferent, what do you want me to do? Still defend Darla? Obv not. Malthius coming up scum pretty much confirms her as scumpartner. Do you want arguments? Bleh, go to the little menu down the page, click to watch only Darla's posts all D1 and realize the evolution of his posts,

but knowing Mal was a werewolf

. I thought a scumhunter like you would already have noticed that.

Why should I not reread? I need to reconsidered how things play together now that Malthusis has turned up scum. I need to look for the subtle hints in the posts of day 1. You are the one who is labeling me as too eager to scum hunt. Sure, others have followed suit, but you started the label in post 76. I still think that you are worried that I have come on to you. That is why its all about feeling that I am too eager.

I was thinking that someone too eager like you would have voted for Darla instead of FoSing her. Did you reread when voting for me? And if others agree with my labels, then there must be something. Deal with them, I dont control their postings.

Goborage has a good point that you are trying to flip face with Macavanger too. You now want to look like you are on his side. I think you want to attach yourself to someone who is most likely seen as town. There is more, but this starts to show my dislike for your behavior. Again, here are details, not just gut feelings.

Voting for Darla is my lame attempt to blend with Macavenger? Where did this happen? Can you people read what Darla has done all D1 and again, knowing that Mal was a werewolf?

[populartajo]

Mac, Im asking you the same question I asked to Gobororage. Do you sincerely think that there isnt a scum (or maybe both) in Malthius wagon?

Obviously not, since I'm voting Darla right now. There's a good chance at least one scum was also off the wagon, though.

I agree. But my common sense tells me that there's at least one scum in the wagon, maybe, maybe both. Mac, you have to realize that Mal was being the obvious D1 lynch too early in the game. Scum knew that he was probably going to be lynched. Have you ever heard of busing?

And I was off the wagon for many reasons. I guess it should be obvious. I think the principal reason is that I was still thinking that Mac could be scum (use of unorthodox methods) and therefore Mal and Darla would be innocent (just for the fact that Mac could be scum and that Ive seen many newbies acting scummy). Part of my siding with them all D1 is exactly all due to this. Please, notice how as the game progresses the discussion shifts to only a dislike of Mac's logic and that Mal could be scum. If you understand my reasoning then you would understand why I didnt vote.

But, you said yesterday you agreed Malthusis was scummy independent of my test. Doesn't that make him better than a no lynch? Why would a no lynch have been better than a Malthusis lynch?

First I dont know what's the problem in our agreement of Malthius scummyness. I didnt vote for him because as well he could be scum, you could have been too. Today results change things a bit. Notice my first post of D2. "If Mal had come up town then Id be in your ass"
Second, when did I say that I wanted a no lynch? Its the first time you're puting words in my mouth. Why? I was going to be here before deadline and I would have definitely voted Malthusis if he only needed one more vote. What's your problem?

I do use logic and arguments. I was the only one that took the opposite side all D1 and I did it with arguments. Im fine with that because I feel my resoning is valid. Today is diiferent, what do you want me to do? Still defend Darla? Obv not. Malthius coming up scum pretty much confirms her as scumpartner. Do you want arguments? Bleh, go to the little menu down the page, click to watch only Darla's posts all D1 and realize the evolution of his posts,

but knowing Mal was a werewolf

. I thought a scumhunter like you would already have noticed that.

Why does Malthusis alignment confirm Darla's? Why was she newbie yesterday, but scum today? Have you never mistakenly defended a scum as town?

Mac, Malthusis was scum. Why your first vote of the day is a vote for her? Probably for the same reasons as mine. If Mal would have been town would you have voted for her? Obv, not. Mac, dont make me quote his posts. And Ive defended scum many times, specially newbie ones.

And if others agree with my labels, then there must be something. Deal with them, I dont control their postings.

Many people have agreed with bad ideas that were repeated over and over throughout history. The fact is that repeating something over and over is a great way to paint a false impression in peoples' minds. It's a common propaganda technique, and is basically what you're doing here. You've never cited a good reason for being suspicious of Shepherd that I've seen, you just keep saying over and over that you don't like him.

Many people have noticed that theres something off in Shepherd's scumhunting. I dont know why repeating a bad idea could make people realize what Im seeing. Propaganda? Mac, you're subestimating people here. If they're seeing then there must be something, prob his playstyle, I dont know. Today results change things dramatically but why dont you ask them if they believe in Shepherd's eagerness just for me?

Mac, try the bold. Wee.

[populartajo]

Ok. Guys. You have to realize that I made a mistake defending her at D1. I already accepted that. How did I realize this? Checking the results of today and REREADING THE GAME KNOWING MAL WAS SCUM. About defending her, why cant I be wrong? I usually defend newbies. I was one too and I know what is to be suspected for a big majority and how hard is to defend against mounstrousos posts. Now you have to realize that Malthius was scum and that Darla is still a newbie regardless allignment. So my read on her NOW is that she's his most possible scumpartner. I fully believe this.
I know the change is dramatic but its just common sense. Some people, Macavenger included, voted inmediately for her. I can understand your suspicions about my case but please understand this.
Darla has been following me in some of my reasoning all D1. I saw this as lack of confidence as a townie, as I said before, but now that we know Mal's allignment I can see this as a way to blend with me in my Malthusis defense and my Macavenger attack.

Being that I am also a newbie aside, I really am thinking that Malth's reactions are newbie based, I mean I was just as jumpy and reactionary in my first few game posts.

unvote Amor; Vote: Macavenger
Your responses lend nothing that helpful thus far, a possible scum tell. All you have done is implicate Math, instead of looking at others as well, One liner responses are far from helpful for the town.

Is it not possible that malth is a nervous Vanilla? or a Cop or something who it will harm the town to kill?

If Mac can convince me otherwise of his scummy/not scummy-ness, and I see more scumtells from Malth, I just might vote for him, but not yet. I am not convinced.

She's basically doing the same thing I was doing. Defending Mal and atacking Mac. The only difference. She did it LATER.
Now, Malthusis is lurking, winning scummy points and I guess his scumpartners are having a hard time deciding if it's worth to defend him while at the same time not bringing the suspicions to their asses.

Malth, You can really recover here by working with us to find scum like said above you seem more focused on defending than hunting, and im afraid that does make me suspect you somewhat.
and I am pretty pleased with your explanations Mac,
unvote

Now I will admit Malth is on my radar now, but as said above I am still not convinced. (on anyone)

and I agree, Mal this is your one chance to clear your name and help me make up my mind.

Malthius is lurking to death and Darla realizes that he´s possibly the lynch for the day.

However he hasn't given me anything positive to work with since I began defending him. Which makes me believe we should go ahead and lynch or at very least turn the heat on high.

I was re-reading as well and noticing how stupid my defending of Mal was, because of the 'major' FoS he placed.

The logic behind it was a bit iffy, but I just don't see a strong enough case against him just yet.

I dont find anyone to be overtly scummy at this point in the game, although Mal's absence from the thread really puts a damper on my doubts.
FoS Mal. For not coming in here and posting to all these questions.

anyways I am pretty much set on a Mal lynch, I would like one more post or a replacement's post before I make a vote or Hammer.

OG Smokedank replaces and maybe maybe its time for another oportunity.

welcom Smoke....sorry its not a better time for you to replace in. Malth didn't leave you in such a hot position. When you read up I'd like to get your thoughts on stuff so far, who you suspect and such.

I am willing to hammer smoke if it comes to that, but I really hope to get a reply from her first.
My only reasoning is that other than

a really dumb play on Malth's part

early on then going into lurkdom

Again I'm not saying Malth/OG AREN'T Scum, I'm Saying I don't think we have as much proof as mac is leading us to believe. Still Willing to hammer as we really don't need a no-lynch, but I had to put that out there.

OG also lurks and now its time to get rid of the dumb scumpartner. Darla is willing to hammer.

I was hoping that she'd post and I'd feel better for my defense but now I am pretty sure she is scum. Malth dug her into a pit and she doesn't know how to get out.

Finally. WIFOM only she could have thought of.

I think we should be examining them first. Maybe I am just that new but why would I as scum kill my own partner? :/

Ok, guys. Now do you see what I see?

[populartajo]

Unvote

To keep up discussion and avoid some silly votings. This vote will come again as soon no one has anything else to say. I still think DBE is scummier than anyone right now, check my big post.
Liking Greasy Spot contributions so far.

[populartajo]

I still dont get why I am a fine lynch, Mac.
I have explained with arguments why I think DBE is the scummiest player right now. Does anyone disagree with my big post of her?
I mean, am I the only one thinking that DBE makes sense as scum knowing that Malthusis was a werewolf?
Mac can you point out you reasons for changing your view of her?
Anyways, the only resons for suspecting me is that I want lynched someone that I defended, right? Anything else? Whats the OMG Im scum thing Ive done?
.........
In other thoughts, assuming there are three werewolves, right now Im pretty sure there was one scum in the wagon (both could have been there, though). Also, Gob makes a point with the possibility of being one scum off the wagon, specially a quiet one. Xoxelf or Greasy make sense here.
I agree too that we shouldnt let Greasy stay out of the hook just because hes like that in his other games.
This is the most probable situation I can think off, regarding Malthius behavior all D1.

[populartajo]

Why is your vote still on me goborage?

[populartajo]

elf hasn't done anything to cause me to stop being suspicious of her,

vote elf

also, tajo, you have been away for quiet a few posts, so you have any comments on whats been discussed?

Obviously you are still convinced I am scum, do you have any other points than my defending malth when he came up as scum? <which I have accounted for and admitted to being stupid)

Well, I did comment about my current suspicions. This is my opinion. Right now you're my top suspect, Darla. Also, your defense of Malth is not the only reason Im suspecting you, Darla. Its the way you've behaved with him before and after he was almost confirmed as the lynch of the day. Check my big post for more details and if you want to comment about anything in special, we will.

[populartajo]

All the quotes belong to my dearest Macavenger.

Vehemently attacking the initial bit of my case on Malthusis could easily have been defending a scumbuddy.

Christ, you even said this was an unorthodox method. I think you didnt have a problem with that attack.

Extremely abrupt turnaround and wagon push on DBE today, for questionable reasons.

If you say you agree with my case, what questionable reasons are you talking about?

Continually bringing up suspicions about SoW mainly, and a couple other things, and utterly failing to support them when challenged

Failing, when? Also, SoW case was pretty closed when Malthusis came up as scum if you check. In my last post refering to him Im considering the possibility of that being just his playstyle. What do you mean with continually bringing?

I mostly agree, but you made that argument very suddenly, and it's mostly a rehash of stuff that's already been said.

Not suddenly. I posted twice, maybe more, that DBE made sense as scum rereading the game knowing Mal was scum, but nobody, I guess, had time for that. It wasnt a sudden argument.

Justify this.

Common sense. Ive said a million times that scum knew Malthusis was scum and they probably had a hard time deciding whether it was good to defend him or to bus him. The good thing about this Malthusis situation is that it was pretty much the "hot topic" of the day. Therefore everyone had to have an opinion about him, scum included. When Malthusis was the obv lycnh for the day I dont see why a scum wouldnt have come up with the idea of being in the wagon to claim after "I was on the wagon or I pushed his lynch, therefore Im not scum".

Not let off the hook, but he's a bad lynch for today. He's a very distant fourth in scumminess right now.

Well Greasy Spot hasnt done anything remarkable besides lurking and acting very stupid. I dont think he had an opinion about Malthusis "the hot scum", IIRC, he only posted something like

I apologize for my lack of play on Day 1 but it looks like you all did fine without me. Good job on the scum kill.

Also, he's attacking your friend Shepherd with NO input and you dont suspect him? Why not the same pressure?
..................
Anyways, regarding deadline, Im willing to lynch anyone of the three Xoxelf, Greasy Spot or Darla, in that order. Maybe, although she's my top suspect for scummy behavior, we shouldn't lynch Darla. Yes. This should get me in trouble but lately Ive been wondering whats does "Darla being happy to claim" mean?
Assuming she's scum and that she's a newbie therefore she has less possibilities of fakeclaiming.
Assuming she's town. She's happy to claim therefore she possibly has a power role that would need scum to counterclaim or to kill. I say we take advantage of this "claim" and let her to have another night of "action" while at the same time messing with mafia about killing a "top-suspect" player that could be a power role.
I agree with Mac that you, Darla, shouldnt claim yet unless we decide to lynch you.

[populartajo]

xofelf needs to post something meaningful and probably claim very quickly here if she wants a chance at avoiding the noose today. We've got enough psuedovotes now to kill her, and are somewhat approaching the point of no return. Need more time to do some reading and analysis on tajo's last post before I comment on that.

I agree. About that rereading Im sure you'll find something. You just dont like me.

[populartajo]

Xofelf is at L-1 right now by my count. I am willing to drop the hammer if she doesn't post a damn good defense soon.

What about Mod prodding : Xoxelf?

[/not defending]
For the record, if Xoxelf isnt scum, I dont like Coheed's vote and Amor's willingness to hammer him. [/easy target]

[populartajo]

Now we wait for the mod to post...

[populartajo]

Why did they kill Rice?
Busy right now, posting later.

[populartajo]

Im still wondering why did the kill Rice (lurker) and not a pro town player (Mac, Shepherd)?
Anyways, right now Im rereading what Rice posted (not very much). He probably investigated his first night and could have a result.

[populartajo]

Populartajo - 50% town He flip flops a lot, but seems to be kinda newbish, not getting a very strong read here either.

Newbish?
Why arent you suspecting your attacker, Darla?

[populartajo]

This is what Rice said in D2.

Not seeing a whole lot to convince me otherwise right now, so I'm going with DBE. I wanted to let it slide as best I could, but you have been too scummy for too long.

VOTE: DBE

I see a strong link between Darla/Mal... and I don't like it at all. I see Mal having the better wagon right now, but Darla is the one I want to see under fire next.

So, for now, VOTE: Malthusis until you start being even remotely pro-town.

That's from yesterday, I gave the reasons then, and I still find these suspicions to be confirmable. Especially after the flip.

Unvote

Vote: xofelf

I want to hear an explanation for the reach, and you haven't given it.

@Darla: Beware LAL. That is all.

I'm still in favor of a DBE lynch, and xofelf is climbing on my scummy list as well. Greasy is beginning to be irritating as well, but that seems to be his playstyle. Coheed could also post more than a few one liners that benefit the town.

Did he probably investigate Darla?

[populartajo]

Miller? WTF=?

[populartajo]

Forgive my newbness, this is the first time I've played with a "miller". Just one question, aren't millers normally only seen in open setups?

I have no idea.

Vote : DBE.

I told ya.

[populartajo]

I haven't ever gotten it before, it was a surprise, I looked it up on MafiaWiki but got no more explanation than my role PM.

Really? Who did you target then?

[populartajo]

Wait a sec, wouldnt a miller had a different name in this game? I mean, a more flavorful one?

[populartajo]

*have

[populartajo]

*Shrugs* my PM said I was a Miller, thats all I know, I thought it WAS special cos I hadn't heard of it till I wiki'd it.

Mmmm. I have some reading to do. Did you breadcrumb it?

[populartajo]

Darla, does your PM mention anything about werewolves?

[populartajo]

okie,

I wish I had more to offer as far as night results and stuff, but I don't, and what is breadcrumbing?

*checks Wiki*

will be back

Good girl.

[populartajo]

I am a Miller
If I am investigated, I will get a guilty reading, telling them I am a werewolf
and That I win with the town when all the werewolves have been eliminated

Mine says "when all the werewolves are dead"

[populartajo]

Popular, was that a quote from your PM or a quote from the Mods demo on page 1? What did you intend to get with it?

I guess Darla's PM should have the same win condition, right?

[populartajo]

I was summarizing tajo, I haven't looked at the PM again in a few days, would you feel better if I went and copy/pasted it? I will check the rules to see if its a violation.. hang on...

Ok. Sorry if Im being an ass but it seems pretty convenient.

[populartajo]

I didn't direct quote my PM, obv. its good since I was right about it being in the rules not too.

Are you seriously gonna flip over one word? I can see why you'd be concerned, but that seems pretty anal, especially since they mean the same thing pretty much.

(and yes saying so in my own defense makes it pretty moot but sometimes I cant keep my mouth shut)

Lol, Darla. You know its not only "one word".

[populartajo]

Darla, why is Mac not dead yet?

[populartajo]

maybe I should be asking you that?

Maybe he s scum?

there a million reasons,

he could be a NK immune something or other, I have no idea.

I want to believe you but I cant. Seriously.
Where's everyone?

[populartajo]

I gave some opinions about grease that I am still interested in hearing discussion on from him and the town.

QFT.

[populartajo]

I dont think that Greasy deserves more attention than Darla. I guess he starts playing D2, D3 to avoid lynchs and nightkills. His style is pretty convenient for scum at the beginning of the game but he'll have to start to make sense if he doesnt want to be lynched soon. He's a top suspect.
For now, I think Darla's situation is extremely convenient for her. Village miller? Where did the village come from?I think she's a healthy lynch.
Why dont you, Goborage?

[populartajo]

What inconsistency? Its pretty obvious to me that Malthusis coming up scum pretty much semiconfirmed Macavenger as pro-town. (although Ive been wondering why he's still alive)
I still dont understand why is GS more scummy than DBE. I can understand me but not GS. His playstyle sucks and he has started to make sense recently but his last post reads totally neutral too me.

[populartajo]

GS's defense is pretty bad imo.

"I was mistaken. I posted that in another game. Sorry for the confusion."

He admits he had no excuse for his hammer.

"I hardly call 3 votes "vote-hopping". My 1st vote on DBE was joining a wagon. My 2nd vote was on you cause you voted me. The 3rd was the hammer, need I say more."

Three votes in 5 (?) pages is quite a lot. It's particularly scummy looking when it's just to join a bandwagon. What kind of townie is so blood-thirsty?

"Shepherd_of_Wolves wrote:
[2] You robbed Xofelf the chance to plead her defense. And now we have one less town member. Town has no need to prevent the innocent from defending themselves, heck we allow everyone innocent or guilty the chance to defend.

Correct you are."

Lol where's the defense here?

You make good points about him. I wouldnt be surprised if he's indeed scum. My problem with you is besides the hammer and that post what makes you think he's more scummy than Darla?

Mac helping to lynch Malth doesn't automatically make him town. He could simply be selling his newb partner down the river to make himself look town. For a guy so gung-ho on Mac's guilt D1, I'm surprised you didn't point this out D2.

Gobo, what conclusions do you get from Malthusis coming up scum? Do you think Mac is more possible scum than town? DO you think Darla is more possible town than scum?

[populartajo]

I guess many of you are missing that a Werewolfhunter is the flavor equivalent of a role called Jack of all Trades. There's a link on the first post.

[populartajo]

Mac, why are you still alive?

[populartajo]

Mac, what do you think of Gobo?

[populartajo]

Activity much? Where's Coheed, Amor?
Darla last question, can you make an analysis of all the people here=?

[populartajo]

Darla, Where's goborage in your list?
Also, what made you change your mind about me?
Amor, dont you think we should listen more of what Darla has to say?
Shepherd, why dont you like the Darla lynch?

Mod, please prod these players.
4. Greasy Spot
5. Macavenger
8. goborage replacing Rosso Carne, replacing ValiantValant

[populartajo]

Thx CES. We need Greasy here.
Gob you failed to answer this question.

Gobo, what conclusions do you get from Malthusis coming up scum? Do you think Mac is more possible scum than town? DO you think Darla is more possible town than scum?

[populartajo]

Obv obv

Vote : Goborage.

[populartajo]

My only defense regarding DBE is that it was a misread. That and WIFOM. If I was playing scum I definitely wouldn't have defended DBE like I did. I'd bus her seeing as how so much of town found her scummy. In all earnestness, I didn't think her mass-defending was scummy, but I guess this shows what I know. Anyways expect a claim at L-1 from me.

Why isnt this guy dead?

[populartajo]

I agree that goborage's connections with Darla seem pretty solid, and his play hasn't done much to convince me he's town. Given that we've gotten two of the scum, we should probably try to lynch based on connections now, so that would definitely put goborage under suspicion, as well as populartajo to some extent. I will probably be willing to put down a vote after hearing his claim.

Why me?

[populartajo]

Ok, Goborage.
I need to reread to find out some things but you (or anyone) could help me with some.
a) Why SOW and Mac?
b) Do you realize the existence of a Martyr and a Jack of all Threads?
c) Did you breadcrumb being a doctor at any part of the game?
d) For balance reasons dont you think is a little overpowered for town to have this variety of power roles?

[populartajo]

Gobo, I dont understand why you protected SoW and Mac.
1. Why did you protect Mac N3 if you were thinking he could be scum?
2. Why didnt you protect me N1 if you were agreeing with me about defending Darla?
3. Why did you protect SoW N1 and N2, a player, that in that moment could have been scum and was against your theory of Darla being town?

[populartajo]

Thats exactly what I was thinking. It was pretty much DBE's first time as scum so I cant imagine her busing her scumpartner to death knowing that she could probably was going to be lynched. I think, IMO, this pretty much confirms Greasy Spot as an easy target for scum and therefore probably townie.

[populartajo]

WARNING : LONG POST.

In fact, lets analyse what darlascum said all the game.

D1

Being that I am also a newbie aside, I really am thinking that Malth's reactions are newbie based, I mean I was just as jumpy and reactionary in my first few game posts.

I am not convinced yet

I am still really suspicious of Caf/Amor, Coheed seems pretty harmless I think,

unvote

We know Malth was her scumpartner so she probably defended or was neutral about his other scumpartner(s).
This post also tells me that Caf and Amor arent her scumpartners (in fact Caf is dead martyr and she suspects Amor in all her first posts) and that Coheed's read is mmm, harmless.

I also think Shepherd is trying a bit too hard, but is yet to slip up in any scumtells.

I am gonna go with my gut here and vote:amor I find you the most suspicious of the posters thus far, your defense of caf was never answered for and was ill timed.

I think its pretty hard for Darla to come up with bus at that state of the game so Im 90% sure Amor isnt her scumpartner.
About Shepherd, well, obv if he's town he's not an easy target for scum.
hmmmm

unvote Amor; Vote: Macavenger

You seem to be very mysterious in this one, and I think Amor answered well enough.

Feeling pretty much confident with my previous attacks against Mac, she jumps against him and pressures him strongly. This also tells me Mac isnt her scumpartner.

What are we trying to get out of Mac from putting him under pressure, and I am also still waiting to hear what malthusis says about his wording sentence

I think that what he was trying to do is use the same tactic Mac claimed to be using to test Math earlier. I find him suspicious personally, My vote would stand pressure or not.

Do you not want us to pressure Mac, Coheed?

*makes note*

Mmm, again this interaction doesnt make me confortable. "makes note"?

my top two suspects are Travis and Mal at this point, but I am not gonna vote for someone I don't have a solid case against esp. when theres already a bandwagon forming.

Unluckily Travis is dead now. He was town. This seems a desesperate attempt to change suspicions.

I can see a Pop/Mal alliance sure, why Pop is defending me I do not know, maybe he likes that I was defending his scum buddy (mal) and wants to keep me around longer than those who are leading the crusade against mal.

Again, trying to deflect the attention. But goborage tried to do the same, in a subtly way, however.

Goborage ==

I am sorry If i let you down, but its not a simple task to follow up a post like that.

She was refering to SoW's epic post. Goborage felt dissapointed for her response.

RANDOM FUN FACT

@ Riceball: I totally understand your suspicion of me, but I see now how completely stupid I was <defending everything> so I can't even say its unwarranted suspicion, I'm still learning all this stuff so I tend to make a lot of stupid mistakes.

Hopefully tomorrow I can change your mind

How ironic. I want to know if Rice indeed investigated DBE?

D2

assuming the other scum didn't vote from smoke that leaves:

Amor, popilartajo, greasyspot, xoelf (travis)

This strategy was also proposed by another player. Hint hint: Goborage.

At this point Im really interested in Goborage and Coheed. Maybe maybe Amor.
Lets see what she had to say of them.

Goborage -- seems pretty genuinely town, was scum hunting and actually thought about the lynch on smoke before bandwagoning, 80/20 town/scum

Coheed - Added hardly anything useful to the hunt, bandwagoned and lurked a good bit, not getting very good town vibes from him 70/30 town/scum

Notice that in this same post she stronlgy suspects me and Amor. She isnt sure about Greasy, Travis, SoW and she thinks Mac and Rice are 80/20 town/scum.

D3

Xoxelf (Travis) comes up town and Rice comes up hunter. Its time for another of her analysis.

Coheed - 60% town, Hard to read, seemed a bit oppourunistic there at the end but overall more townie than scummy.

Amor - 50% town, I have wondered if this was a scum, avoiding the wagons, keeping low, and pledging psuedo votes that he doesn't have to follow through on. Im not really getting a strong read either way but its possible.

Goborage - 70% town, Seems townie to me, very logical and scum hunting oriented.

Mmmm. Not too much to get of here. She still feels very neutral about Coheed and Amor. She still thinks Goborage is pretty town with Mac and SoW sharing the same percentages of towness (70-80%)

Last analysis.

Amor: Can't get a great read on him, seems pretty neutral, but I would think Town, in this case.

Coheed: Only other scum suspect for me, and its really pushing it. I will have to come back later to explain, as for now I must go,

Gobo; seems pretty town, I reread a lot of his posts and like SOW seems pretty level headed and doesn't jump to conclusions, if you read back the lump sum of his posting he is possibly one of the most neutral players as well.

Still not too much to get of here.
FUN FACT: She forgot to analyse Goborage and she never came back to explaoin Coheed's read.

Conclusion:

we should be looking either Goborage or Coheed. Maybe Amor, but I doubt it for the attacks at the beginning of the game. Greasy Spot, being an easy target for scum yesterday, is IMO confirmed as not her scumpartner.

[populartajo]

Greasy is supposed to be off LA in a couple days. I would like to hear his and coheed's thoughts on the claim and this discussion before we lynch.

Unvote; FoS: goborage

QFT.
Now that I see it, I think Coheed isn't Darla's scumpartner. A newbie wouldnt have voted scumparter N1 (DBE)as a random vote and then switched to scumpartner N2 for all D1.(Malthusis)

Right now, I want to hammer DBE, but then all of you would just see that as oppertunistic. Shes the best case right now because of her ties to Malth and overall scummy play. Greasy is not top because he could just be being a very unhelpful town.

Why would he worried about being oppertunistic, lol, if he suppossedly was going to hammer his scumpartner? It seems a little too elaborated for Coheed Newbie Scum.
But hey you never know. For now, I feel good with a Goborage's lynch. There was probably no NK yesterday because he wanted to give that doctor impression. Protecting you D3 seems a little off.
And I still think Greasy Spot is confirmed. It was, IMO, Darla's desperate last attempt to bring suspicion to someone.

[populartajo]

Unvote

What do you think of mass claiming now that we have a claimed doc?

[populartajo]

RL issues, will post ASAP. Posting this in all my games.

[populartajo]

We have to decide between Coheed and Goborage. Nuff said.

[populartajo]

Although I dont see Coheed voting for both scumpartners with that ease.
I have a question. Arent we as town a bit overpowered if we have a Martyr, a JOAT and also a doc? All are protective roles, right?

[populartajo]

QFT = Quoted for truth. Internet slang.

@ popular: No GS? Bussing isn't that hard.

I dont see newbiescum Darla doing that. It was like his last oportunity of being alive, lynching a lurker.
Doc, why do you think scum try to kill Mac yesterday and not D1 or D2?

[populartajo]

Votecount

CoheedCambria09 (3) - Shepherd_of_Wolves, goborage, Amor

goborage (2) - Macavenger, Greasy Spot


With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch! Deadline July 1st.

Can anyone unvote? Greasy is around and I dont want Coheed to be lynched yet.

[populartajo]

In fact you're still at L-1.

Can anyone unvote? Greasy is around and I dont want Coheed to be lynched yet.

How believable was his last claim?
Mac, relax. Im still waiting for Goborage's reponse.
And Greasy you're wrong. Simple as that.

[populartajo]

What response?

Doc, why do you think scum try to kill Mac yesterday and not D1 or D2?

I thought you were the doc.
.............
Lol at Greasy Spot. Maybe you should post more in that game.
Guys, I believe Coheed is town for his last claim when he thought he was dead. We shouldnt be lynching him.
Amor, please explain why am I scum to you.

[populartajo]

I told you not to lynch Coheed.
Goboroge is the obvious play.

[populartajo]

EBWOP - And I told

them

you were the obvious lynch, but no one listened to me either.

Your accusations have a wrong fact, Greasy. Could you please reread the game and correct it? I didnt defend Darla D2.
Darla could impress me as a player if what she did before she died was to bus you but I dont see it.
Goborage protecting two days in a row seems slightly suspicious. I mean, why did the scum didnt kill him?

[populartajo]

Personally, I believe Goborage still. It is way too foolish to let two nights go by with out a lynch if he were a scum. My guess was, it would be my night kill, or it would be Gobo, since he is an announced power role. I strongly believe their is a doctor in the game, and as Gobo has not been counter claimed, I think he lives. Unless something really apparent happens, I do not intend to join town against Gobo, I would rather go with a no lynch. To me he is obviously a no lynch today.

Look, if he is the doc, then he has verified three innocent people, Macavenger, Me (SoW), and Himself (Gobo). So, that leaves us with three unverified persons Popular, Amor, and Grease.

Grease is my lynch choice today. He is mixing games together, which bothers me, because he claims such and never gets to the questions. He has done it two or three times now. He is presenting untrue statements on Popular.

More to come later.

Vote: Grease

This is a nice post.
The only problem is that I dont see Greasy Spot as Darla's scumpartner. I mean, you know when you're scum and you're pressured as hell, what do you do? Go for the easy target to save your own ass. Greasy was the easy target even before we went hard against her. Gobo was conveniently supporting that lynch also but this brings WIFOM to the table.
Again I could be wrong and its possible Darla went for the bus strategy but knowing her I doubt it. She was enjoying this game. Could it be possible that Greasy had coached her to bus him in that case?
........
Anyways, this "doc protection" leaves Amor, Greasy and me. What do people think of Amor?
......
Now, Gobo. If he's the real doc then he'll die eventually, right?. SoW is right about him confirming already two guys. Too lucky doctor? Bad play as scum? I dont know but Im sure we'll know sooner or later.

[populartajo]

Also it seems strange that scum picked N3 Riceball (a notable lurking player) and now picks such obvious "protect me" targets as Mac and Shepherd and not Amor (an excelent target with doc around).
I can see Goborage messing with our minds right now.

[populartajo]

Grease is my lynch choice today. He is mixing games together, which bothers me, because he claims such and never gets to the questions. He has done it two or three times now. He is presenting untrue statements on Popular.

2 or 3 times? I wrote something from another game 1 time. I don't know where you got 2 or 3 times. I haven't presented any truths on populartajo, I have presented my findings and my interpretations. I have never presented any untruths.

Can you show where I defended Darla D2?

[populartajo]

Sigh. Ok Mac. I wish you could have posted this some hours ago when I had more time. But Ill try to explain (again) all my play in this game.

D1. I admit it again. I was wrong. Many factors here.

a) I cited NG499 where IHscum tried a trap (kinda reaction tester) to catch newbies. I was one in that game and since then I have a bad feeling when people call scum someone for reacting like that. I admit again the case is not totally similar but I sincerely felt that repetition feeling when you jumped against Malthusis. In fact the quote youy're bringing is exactly how I feel about him. If he hadnt acted that scummy (lurking, defending himself using my ideas) I would have totally pushed your lynch.

b) I have a tendence for protecting newbies. I simply cant avoid it. I guess they are more vulnerable to attacks and have more difficulies to defend against "good" cases. I say "good" because you know everyone as a townie can make a mistake (specially a newbie) and a good scum player could destroy him/her for that. That was the case I thought when trying to read SoW. Although he had the townsperson title at that time I felt he had more experience and his enormous attacks were what I felt his scum tactic to destroy Darla and Malthusis. Add this to the fact that I wasnt sure Malthusis was totally scum and that Darla was also defending him, and you can at least try to understand my thinking.

BONUS NOTE : I dont like WIFOM very much but do you sincerely think that if I were scum I would have defended both of my scumpartners D1, and also knowing that prob one of them was the lynch of the day?

D2. Since I knew Malthusis allignement, I realized that I was wrong and that Mac was apparently right.

a) Knowing Malthusis was scum the obvious play was to reread the game and find out the connections he had D1. I did and found out, tragically, that his relationship with Darla was too scummy for my taste. Check my big posts for details.

b) Now, Mac you say you dont find a townie motivation for going against Darla D2. What about a townie that finds a decent case?

BONUS NOTE : Now that I check quickly I remember I had also thought Goborage was a remote possible second decent suspect. He subtly defended all the trifecta in some posts D1. I have to say that I started to have a bad feeling about him since he voted for me, the easy target, besides Darla, D2.


FINAL CONCLUSIONS.

Now its true that if Gob is the doc then he shouldnt be lynched until later stages of the game. I know this. I even unvoted him yesterday trying to find out if he indeed was one. If he's scum then kudos, he found a decent way to stay alive until the endgame but it will be very difficult (but not impossible) to win this game with Mac and/or SoW around.

My asking for opinions about Amor is an honest expresion of my impotence of not finding more decent cases other than Gobo's one. SoW and Mac are confirmed townies; I thought Greasy-DBE seemed improbable and I know Im a Villager. Sincerely, I was waiting for attacks since it was the obvious reaction at this state of the game. I had to pay my mistakes some day but I wish you could understand what I was thinking when I did that or that.

BONUS NOTE : About Greasy Spot. Im going to be sincere with you guys but as Ive stated before I didnt see Greasy-Darla. The reason Ive also said it before. I didnt find Darlascum busing a very mislynchable candidate. However, theres still that possibility and at this state of the game we have to look for everyone. If you want my opinion, Im starting to see Greasy as an individual character. His attacks against me are a decent townie reacion but a)they have a wrong fact and b)this can be seen as an attempt to go agains the easy target : me.

Now, we also know Darla was capable of busing Malthusis at the end of D1. So Mac if you say scum killed Rice beacuse they probably thought he was the cop then DBE was a decent investigation, right? What about if Greasy Spot coached DBE and told her that her play would only be to bus him? As much as she liked this game I can see her going for the group as she did when she defended Malthusis D1.

Now take in count this is a possiblity as the last scum is probably playing a good game.

[populartajo]

I had to pay for my mistakes some day. Id suggest not to lynch me but I guess it had to happen sooner or later.
Dont forget to lynch Greasy or Gobo.

[populartajo]

And Gobo I realized Coheed was town when he semiclaimed at L-1.

[populartajo]

Look Popular, you say that you see grease as an individual character (with the innuendo that he is against town in his individuality). This does not sound probable because there has never been a two night kill. So, in my book we should only have one team of villains. Everyone in the game is claiming to be clean. So, what reason should we have to trust you. Gobo has some good points that you switch back and forth rapidly.

So, if we decided to lynch grease or gobo, what would be our reason?

I will

UNVOTE

so as to give you time to answer. But, I intend to return my vote again. My pick is between you and Grease. Why should I choose grease over you. You seem wishy washy.

I never said Greasy was in another scum group.
Look.

At this moment of the game

everyone but you and Mac can be scum. We have to think in every little possibility and yes I think is possible (although I have to admit not much) that Greasy could be scum.
In fact, the only reason I used to think why Greasy wasnt scum was when Darla bused him to death at the end of D2. I thought like this:
We have two possibilities here.
a) He's scum and he told Darla to bus him as she was probably going to be lynched eventually.
b) He isnt scum and Darla really tried to kill him to get another day of life.
Now we have to decide which is the most possible. Notice that yesterday reason b seemed more possible but today with Coheed out and Goborage sounding more like a probable doc we have to think in everything.

...........
I dont know what are you thinking about Gobo's point. I can quote what almost eveyone said at some point of the game and obviously is going to sound contradictory because things

change

and so do opinions. No wishy washy here.
If you're deciding between Greasy and me then obviously Im going to suggest you voting for Greasy becuase I know Im a villager and Greasy, at least, has more possibilites of being scum than me.

[populartajo]

Okay guys, I've finished my reread and my opinion is pretty much the same. Populartajo's about-face on Darla is still suspect, and I don't quite buy that Malthusius's flip completely changed things for him. He hasn't really done anything scummy since then, but neither has he really been that helpful. His recent fatalistic posts don't sit with me either. GS has been lurking a lot, but seems to be playing to meta, so for the moment I favour popular.

vote populartajo

What fatalistic posts? And please stop using meta when there are like 6 people here.

[populartajo]

tajo, what you just posted really isn't a defense, or a case on anyone else. It was pretty much just "please guys don't lynch me." That doesn't really do anything for me. Look at all possibilities? We have been, and you look like scum. You look at them, and tell us who's scum and why we should lynch them over you.

Mac, what do you want me to do? Im at L-1. I already claimed and I definetely dont want to be lynched but sigh, all things go against me. Sure, I knew this was going to happen but I have already explained why I acted like that and you guys simply cant believe me.
Its OK. I wouldnt believe it easily if I were in the other side but if I need to be lynched to let you know the truth then fine, Im ok with it. I learnt my lesson.

Now Ill tell you what I think.

I still have problems believing Gobo's claim taking in count we feel a little overpowered as town for scum, that Rice could also protect and that we had a martyr. But lets wish he's the real doc becuase I can see a lot of WIFOM and a lot of hard decisions to come if he's scum.

Now based in Darla's play I though Greasy was an improbable scumpartner. But NOW we have to look every possibility. We cant just lynch like yesterday.

Again I can see a possibility of Greasy couching Darla to bus him entirely to let him win. I cant say he's 100% scum becuase Id be lying but there's the possibility.

I cant take out my mind the idea that Gobo's scum.

[populartajo]

Post 601 is a bad post for a doctor.

[populartajo]

Becuase Im not so doing what he is saying in that post.

Now put your WIFOM glasses.
Why would I try to kill you or SOW if you didnt suspect me yesterday? WHy not him? Why is he alive?
Anyways we arent going to lynch a claimed doc but theres something wrong with him. I just cant tell.

[populartajo]

Wrong.
How do you plan to win the game when I come up villager? We're losing our advantage and you know that.

[populartajo]

Do you realize that the only difference between Gobo and me is that he claimed doctor?

[populartajo]

At least we have a decent town. Thats the only thing that doesnt make me feel worried. Pleas lynch Gobo tomorrow.

[populartajo]

Look at the guy who suspected GS hammering me.

[populartajo]

I was a villager BTW. Good luck town. Tomorrow will be hard. But you deserve this game.

[populartajo]

Gobo, I know you're still here. Why did you hammer?

[populartajo]

Still waiting.

[populartajo]

Am I still considered a part of this game? Or "a majority" means majority of all dead and alive players?

[populartajo]

All righty. I'm sending all the players in the game a PM; please reply with your role, nightchoices, results, and anything else you may find relevant. I will try to get this game running smoothly again as fast as possible.

Thx PJ. Already sent it. Ayways its going to be showed soon. Good luck town.

[populartajo]

Sorry PJ but
bahgotown.

[populartajo]

Mmm this was unexpected. That would explain a lot of things. I have no problems with it PJ since it was obvious that people here wouldnt vote for Gobo or for Amor.
I played horribly and Ive learned some things here. I hope scum share its strattegy.
I want to know who came up with that idea. Congrats scum. Mac and Shepherd also played a good game at the beginning but I cant understand why did you prefer Greasy over Gobo. It was obvious with that hammer. What kind of doctor wants to go to night?
Why didnt you lynch Gobo?