Mini 622 - Mind Screw Mafia - Das ist alles!

[remussaidow]

vote: yos2

'cause he's the only player here I've played with before.

so I'm going to go ahead and guess that right now, we have 4 rules. Anyone think otherwise?

[remussaidow]

hmm, well, I seem to noy have a rule in my role, but if this is mindscrew, who really knows?

[remussaidow]

guys, it looks like voting for yos puts a vote on jenter, jenter for musher. interesting.

[remussaidow]

unvote, vote: korts

we figured out where votes on yos go, I'll help with the next one.

[remussaidow]

I'll vote on ssk, but someone else has to vote for me first to get it to work.

I would self-vote, but I have a gut feeling that might end up being a very bad idea- it might actually count for myself, and then all sorts of numbers would screw up.

granted, this gut feeling may just be the 6 week old cake I just ate.

[remussaidow]

votes on me go to mac

unvote, vote:mafiassk

[remussaidow]

unvote vote: jex

[remussaidow]

once we get the whole pattern figured out, I think I'm going to copy and paste it into my quote so that we'll have it fairly often.

AND

I just realized, we're going to have to do this every single day- every time one (or two or however many will actually die in a cycle) player dies, the whole list will either have to change so that it slides around those people, or the whole damn thing will reset.

[remussaidow]

yeah, I started typing that long (10 seconds or so) before the pattern was figured out and announced...

that does make it slightly less of a hassle

[remussaidow]

the question is, do we want to try that on day one?

[remussaidow]

ebwop:

My lack of voting for the mod states my stance on this- until we have a rough idea otherwise, I don't think lynching the mod would work

[remussaidow]

actually, I'm not terribly concerned about that IN THIS CONTEXT , I would rather have a night pass and then we all see what happens during the night, and THEN we decide whether or not to lynch the mod.

[remussaidow]

its off the players list, not off the vote count lists.

[remussaidow]

I want to try something completely out of the blue on this, and before I do, I think I'd like some more opinion on this.

If the game works like normal mafia games, then more or less anything we say in bold is addressed to the mod, right?

could we, in theory (or actuallity, I s'pose), ask him, in bold font, if we got the voting system correct?

[remussaidow]

ebwop
and does anyone think he'll respond with anything more than a rules infraction on me for mentioning this?

[remussaidow]

I agree with iamausename on that count. That looks about as odd as the number 3. However, I am not entirely certain that he realized that that is what he was saying, as in a game where the mod is lynchable, then we would be getting something out of the lynch, though I do admit that it would be something useful to the town in all likelihood.

[remussaidow]

I'm not entirely sure, but I think that this votecount is actually correct across the board....

[remussaidow]

I said that I understood the point that he may have been trying to make. I'm not terribly sure that that counts as defending him.

[remussaidow]

I mean lynching the mod will be more useful to the town than not lynching.

[remussaidow]

wow, so has anyone else noticed that this is really not a game of mafia yet? I mean, we've done a bunch of mechanics checks, but that not really playing mafia, that's figuring out a possible way that the votecounting works. seeing as none of us really have any idea who's actually going to be lynched.

I think its time to play mafia again, instead of trying to figure out flavor. Flavor will come with the game, not be part of the game.

Thus, I

FOS: NOCMEN

because I don't remember who I'm supposed to vote for to get my vote to show up on him, and because of his latest statement of trying to link quotes to names would be pretty much a mass claim. in the early game.

[remussaidow]

right, but almost every game I've been in where I've had a name, the name made no real difference. However, you're insinuating that the names do indeed make a difference. this would mean that the names would actually have pertinent and currently hidden information involved with them. Thus, it is still a mass claim.

I also never said mass role claim. Any game that I've been in where the names made a difference from one to the next they amounted to the same thing. It was more or a let see how the name system works instead of a let's hunt scum.

[remussaidow]

ok, I'm alright with the claims so far as Jex has it outlined. Yes, I'm fairly certain that my name comes in line with one of the quotes as well. Not entirely 'cause I don't know the source at all, though.

[remussaidow]

that last one is ender's game.

[remussaidow]

I know that this is the standard logic argument, but Korts looks so strange and off the radar of townishness, that I can't help thinking that he's actually trying to get himself NKed. I mean, is there a role in mafia that wins like that? I know that the jester wins when he gets lynched, but does anyone win if they get NKed?

I mean, really, that's the only reason I can think of to ask for doc protection at night and NOT be willing to run a full claim.

[remussaidow]

well, that does seem to lend credence to the idea that role names have a significance, doesn't it?

[remussaidow]

I'm just saying it might be useful. not def will be, but might be.

[remussaidow]

that would require two things-

Korts to not be lying, and for korts to have more or less continuous doc protection.

[remussaidow]

well then, it seems as though nameclaiming is a violation. That's...

interesting.

[remussaidow]

sorry, roleclaiming. I called it by the wrong one.

[remussaidow]

mod, are all currently revealed rules immutable?

I just got a gut feeling that knowing whether or not our votes/ night actions will drop one person down may make a pretty big difference, and since I get the feeling that that would matter, I'd like to know.

The text of rules will not be changed unless absolutely necessary. If necessary, the change in the rules will be announced in the thread. I make no promises as to whether more rules may be added or removed. - Tar

[remussaidow]

username, did your rule state specifically what third parties we're looking for, or even if they do exist?

[remussaidow]

vote: mafiaSSK

(batt)

I'm against the mass claim because scum could have fake claims, and then that leaves the scum with far far more info than the town. That's just not really terribly sensible, and it seems to me like you might be trying to dig for info, especially seeing as Jenter's role had a little bit of game flavor in it- as someone pointed out that the rules to the game that he was from were to be kept hidden, and poof, now that he's dead, no longer hidden.

[remussaidow]

I'm gonna with not necessarily confusing, but def not normal. And that made things a bit difficult to understand.

[remussaidow]

and questioning advocations for mass claims and discussing role discrepencies isn't normal, Nocmen?

[remussaidow]

um...
because he is, yos?

posts 251/2

[remussaidow]

Bat, I hadn't realized that Cavebear's vote was on you, I thought I was putting you at 2 votes for that.

And on your count that "I actually think you're scum"... Well, it could seem that way, as I do think you are the currently scummiest player. I've never seen a protown player advocate for a massclaim early in the game- for any reason. But by now, I'm beating a dead horse with this argument, since I've made it already before.

[remussaidow]

unvote

Not that I don't find him suspicious. My computer broke, so I'll only be on sporadically. I don't want him to get lynched without me seeing if my vote still stands.

v/la for a few days, sorry.

[remussaidow]

end v/la. would like to note that it will begin again for three days starting on one week from monday

[remussaidow]

well, being a vt doesn't match with his softclaim from before. So that would in and of itself, give us information.

[remussaidow]

just a semantical point here grimmy. Wouldn't it be worse if we say, broke his legs instead of him dying, and then proceeded on like that?

also, your bold tags didn't come out right.

[remussaidow]

Mod- If Mafiassk truly does need one fewer vote to be lynch than standard, shouldn't he have a number of posts labeled rules infraction?

I cannot answer this question. - Tar

[remussaidow]

and yet the vote count claims he needs less to be lynched.

[remussaidow]

batt, you may want to reconsider that vote. Grimmy is the player now playing mushers spot, and we can still vote outside the game.

[remussaidow]

voting grimmy, since musher was replaced out, will vote whoever voting musher would have voted for.

Ding ding ding! We have a WINNER! - Tar

[remussaidow]

I think this has to be the fastest-shrinking game I've ever been in.

Also, that whole thing about the nuclear missile kill...
I think that may have just been solved as to the how.

[remussaidow]

username, is there a reason you can tell us that yos has to be lynched today?

[remussaidow]

also, we couldn't see the first set of new rules, maybe whoever has to die for us to see this one hasn't died yet?

[remussaidow]

I'm gonna go ahead and take a stab at Iam's role- he's supposed to lynch the survivor?

mind screw was definately the proper name for this game.

[remussaidow]

actually, Iam, your entire argument for this makes me think that you do NOT have the town win condition as your win condition. Just about the only thing that is clear in my role is my win condition. It does indicate that it only cares about the town WC, and not anyone elses. Thus, I feel compelled to

vote: remussaidow

(I think that's who it has to be to hit Iam) for Iam's display of not knowing the town win condition (as far as my role's town win condition is concerned) and thus showing non-town behavior.

[remussaidow]

uh, mod...

I'd like to call your attention to post 390, please. I believe that I am voting.

Gah, missed it. Vote Count repaired. - Tar

[remussaidow]

I'm not sure. The standard win condition Tar just posted, if held by a scum player, might give the indication that the town's WC would be different, but then as a lyncher, he'd most definately have a non standard win condition.

[remussaidow]

I think you did that backward Batt.

Iam, no, voting me puts votes on you. Nice try though.

[remussaidow]

look at rule 20, gentlemen.

[remussaidow]

and it says vote below, not vote above. Jex has a vote on nocmen right now, not me.
And why do you think that I'm scum?

[remussaidow]

in that case, fine. Though I do believe that my votes on iam,

unvote vote grimmy

[remussaidow]

well. I was saying if there is correlation of names to role, then we can use that information as townies to helps us in our scum hunting. HOWEVER this does not suggest the use of a mass claim. The two are mutually exclusive. Individual claims on days when multiple lynches seem possible, and hell desirable (meaning you want to be able to lynch two people, but since only one will be lynched...) we can use the name claims to determine more information about them then. Mass amounts of information that's just handed to the scum is not a good thing.

[remussaidow]

because I said single claims reveal less information to scum than mass claims?

[remussaidow]

Iam, I'm saying your not town becuase you displayed a lack of knowledge of the town's win condition. I'm not entirely sure that that makes you scum, but it does mean that you're not allied with the town.

Also, there are other, non-scum non-town factions that can exist. They are anti town (since they don't share the town win condition) and thus eventually need to be lynched.

[remussaidow]

I was told that, for the town to win, all other factions must die. Yosarian admitted that he was not aligned with the town. I don't see how it's so difficult to understand the leap I made there.

Because faction refers to a group of people, where as a survivor is only one. Thus, Yos, as a survivor, is not a faction, by definition. Thus him winning via surviving does not affect the town in the slightest.

[remussaidow]

an SK can prevent the town from being the only GROUP left because he can kill one of the group every night. So the town couldn't win until the SK was dead.

[remussaidow]

I've already argued against this point, if you still want to believe (falsely) that I think the town can win with the SK alive, that's your problem.

[remussaidow]

umm.. no. Don't put words in my mouth, Iam, it doesn't do anyone any good. I said you displayed lack of knowledge of the standard win condition. Since this is the scummiest that's happen so far today, its what my vote is based on for now.

[remussaidow]

v/la until august fourth. Won't have any access until saturday at the earliest. Apologies given for the inconvenience.

[remussaidow]

ok, back from v/la. Sorry for the total lack of access, I'll post when I catch up.

[remussaidow]

um.... Noc- so far as I can tell, I've LED the wagon on Iam. I'm pushing for his lynch because I think he's acting anti-town. Tell me where I'm just trying to be on a bandwagon.
And while yes, anti town does not mean scum, it does mean- drumroll please- (*drum roll*)- ANTI FRIGGEN TOWN. That means that they want the town to lose. I'm not saying he's a neutral, like Yos is claiming. I'm saying he's anti frickin town. They are other factions in the game (mafia, not ness. mindscrew) then town and scum. For all we know we could have a cult on our hands- which, if we had one whose recruiter wasn't roleblocked, we're at lynch or lose soon. That's a hypothetical statement, so don't flip out at me for knowing stuff the town doesn't know. It's just an attempt to guess at the possibility of the setups.

Iam, post 457 is incredibly insightful, and I appreciate you pointing it out. I would have missed that fact myself. Thus, in order to reiterate the point, treat EVERYONE as though Yos' vote is already on them. Thank you.

To whomever stated that my posts haven't been very long, well. My posts aren't usually very long. I say what I mean to say and post. I don't put paragraph upon paragraph of mindless fluff into it, because theres no reason to. This one, because I've been away for a while and there are points for me to address, is by consequence longer. See how the system works?

Also, on the off chance that Iam flip town (scale of 1-10, 1 being town and scum (read anti-town faction) being 10, I put him at an 8 for the argument that I've been saying all "day") My first suspect will be Grimmy, and I would expect myself to be up on the lists of many of you.

[remussaidow]

and if you note, I also peg myself as a likely target. Yes, I fully expect myself to be alive tomorrow IF IAM DIES, as that is the condition for the target naming. All I said was that if I'm wrong myself and Grimmy are looking incredibly scummy. Its a simple, true statement.

And no, its not just because I feel that he misunderstood/ misinterpreted the town's win condition. It's because he pushed for a lynch that should never have come up until tomorrow. And its also because he fought against my solitary vote as though it were the one putting him at lynch -one. If it were me being accused in that situation, as town I wouldn't mind the one or two votes based off of this apparent evidence. Its the fact that he tried to fight, continuously, the same point, when it had to be obvious that I wasn't changing MY opinion on the matter, that my vote stays upon him firmly.

Also, cavebear, great job on cutting up my statement so you only show the part that you want everyone else to read. I proposed a hypothetical situation of an anti-town faction that was not scum aligned either. You repeated it, in quotes, yet ignored the point where I called it hypothetical.

[remussaidow]

as a matter of fact Batt, the only difference between your triple jester statement and my cult statement is the likeliness of it happening.

[remussaidow]

we figured that out already yos- you, as the survivor, have it in your best interests to hammer anyone at all.

[remussaidow]

how many posts did I respond to cavebear with? if he comes at me with the same argument, he gets no more defense from me.

Also, its in response to Bat's vote as well, since I had no time to defend myself in between those votes.

[remussaidow]

mod, you're numbers don't line up right on the vote count. Theres one less numeral than name voting.

Typo killed with extreme prejudice. - Tar

[remussaidow]

actually Iam, I'd have to stop and think for a second, but it seems to me that continuously using the same argument to defend oneself and defending oneself halfheartedly are not exactly opposite of each other.

[remussaidow]

Cavebear (and everybody else), I'd like to point out that since its in yos's best interest to hammer anyone and everyone who gets into range today- and thus, in effect, this means that whoever puts the actual target at lynch -1 should be looked upon as the actual hammerer, seeing is that is the effect that they would be creating.

[remussaidow]

they break ties, grimmy.

for the sake of reality, I know that an Iam lynch is not going to be possible. I still think he's not pro-town, but for now

unvote, FOS:Iamausername, Vote: Yosarian2 (Grimmy)

I previously said he's my number one suspect tomorrow if Iam flips town, and that I expected myself to be on that list as well. However, with an Iam lynch out of reach, I have to stand back and state because Grimmy has appeared to follow myself along and just double up my arguments, it seems like he was trying to be on a wagon that someone else would take most of the heat for. Since he's my only other lead, I have to forgo my desire to see if I'm right about Iam before I put a vote on my next suspect, grimmy.

[remussaidow]

since my lynch is a forgone conclusion now,
notes against grimmy: look at his posts again, he only ever followed up my arguments against Iam, which means HE was trying to stay on a wagon that I led.

My speculation on cults comes from the only other reason I could try and think of that would have Yos not want to be lynched at all today and thus claim to be a survivor.

Claim: I am a replacable townie. So far as I can tell, getting NKed will get me replaced, but lynched and I'm gone gone.

[remussaidow]

umm...

Yos, weren't you supposed to disapear day 3?

[remussaidow]

I have a gut feeling that rule 30 had to do with my being a replacable townie, though I have no actual confirmation on this. This is my role name, btw: Rei Ayanami (from Neon Genesis Evangelion), in case anybody can/want/find if there are any hints as to whether or not y'all believe my claim of a replaceable townie.

Cavebear, sure its confirmable. Get scum to try and nightkill me, and then ask whoever the hell replaces me how they got here. Or a vig, or an SK, or anyone else who might be in this godforsaken confusion of a game. Barring that, I'm just asking for a little faith.

Yos, you're right. I didn't realize that day reset, not ended. My bad on that one. Save that question for tomorrow then, if you're still around.

I'm in favor of the plan of trying to lynch grimmy first then if that fails choose between iam and yos (though we all know my choice will be Iam).

vote: yos

[remussaidow]

happy birthday mod!

[remussaidow]

obviously its not obvious to me yos, I still don't think that he was town.

[remussaidow]

username, are you saying we advocate voting no lynch, or are you recognizing the fact that there will not be a lynch today.

[remussaidow]

see my point now?

[remussaidow]

well, umm... I already claimed. AND I think that I should be the lynch for the day. The investigation will clear me as town, but scum can't NK me, I'll just get replaced.

[remussaidow]

at least, I'm ALMOST positive that that's what will happen.

[remussaidow]

cavebear, are you considering that I've already claimed in your system? THough, frankly, I too would like to hear iam's next.

[remussaidow]

Iam, could noc have been killed outright on the scum's own volition? or would he have been switched and batt been killed instead?

[remussaidow]

while we await cavebear,

Batt, what do you think of the current plan?

[remussaidow]

cavebear, I think I disagree with your first statement. Iam is NOT a confirmed bus driver. However, bat is a confirmed townie, in my eyes. (unless he somehow not only knew that there was a busdriver, but also that he would be the target, in which case hats off to him and good game, 'cause I don't think its possible, plausible, or even remotely likely).

That being said, I have to think that either you or Iam are scum, with me leaning towards Iam (still). The only kink in this idea is that Batt woke up in the wrong bed, though was that public information, or did batt say it? 'Cause I can't find where that was first mentioned today.
Conversely, cavebear, the role you claim is very detailed, and thus I find it hard to believe that you just made it up, though I am open to the possibility, for now.

[remussaidow]

sounds good,

vote: cavebear

umm, this just clicked, but the mod IS still a player, batt?

[remussaidow]

if cavebear came up town, I was gonna say that iam switch of those two and me, and then propose to no lynch until everyone was confirmed (since Iam couldn't pull off looking like a busdriver and being scum in that position.)

[remussaidow]

I would never target myself, even through the risk to switch was higher.

[remussaidow]

cavebear, I would have caught any of your claims as false though- The one's that Tar had prepped, well... The little bit of research I did on these names, I would have known the giant's drink to have been scum, and the other's really don't line up with jailkeeping (the enderverse, as the 8 of them are known by some people I talk to about them, are some of my favorite books, and I was actually seriously thinking about drawing up an enderverse game setup if I ever decided to start modding. Point of this story being I know most of the characters and how they would function)

Quick question, though. Isn't the jailkeeper the same thing as a roleblocker?

[remussaidow]

With reading the Enderverse though, there is nothing (not even the way he's claimed to keep jail, since he killed everyone he beat up in the process of beating him up) that could set up ender as a jailkeeper. I think I would have pressed that as a fakeclaim. That's what I'm saying.