Newbie 655: Zeroville. (Game Over!)

[WhereIsTony]

/confirm

[WhereIsTony]

What no vote?

Vote:J_Slr

for hesitancy.

First vote!

Should be fun.

I agree Hesitancy allows the Scum time to plot

Vote: The Pope's Tiara

[WhereIsTony]

Of course I voted for someone who hasnt spoken yet.

Only when they speak can I start to form opinions of them.

Nothing gets someone talking like a little fire under thier feet.

[WhereIsTony]

Vote: WhereIsTony

Nothing says scum like a random vote, Tony.

And voting for you was not random it was "near random"

I wanted to vote for someone who had not posted yet to see how they would react.

I do find your reaction troubling though, not "proof of scum" troubling but troubling nonetheless

[WhereIsTony]

Vote: WhereIsTony

Nothing says scum like a random vote, Tony.

And voting for you was not random it was "near random"

I wanted to vote for someone who had not posted yet to see how they would react.

I do find your reaction troubling though, not "proof of scum" troubling but troubling nonetheless

Normally yes, worth noting unfortunately I have to ask myself, is Pope's Tiara nervous because It(you have no gender I can see) is new?

btw Tony, I like the evil looking bear, I bet you wanted to be scum.

yeah i use the vbear in another forum too.

I think playing scum would be interesting but the game is new enough to me that all the roles are.

As for Pope...well I could not say he is scum with any real certainty, but...gotta vote somewhere.

[WhereIsTony]

what is a chainswa defense?

[WhereIsTony]

what is a chainswa defense?

According to the wiki, a chainsaw defense is when you claim to be a Miller, or some other pro-town role that investigates as guilty, allowing you to defend yourself without counterattacking the person that investigates you.
However, there are no Millers in this game, and nobody has done any claiming yet... so I don't see how I could have done a chainsaw defense.

Meanwhile, I'm trying to keep track of who's voting for whom. I'm gonna have to draw a freaking diagram or something.

Thank You

[WhereIsTony]

I am pretty secure in my vote right now

[WhereIsTony]

I personally think it's still a bit early to call Syphen an active lurker. The game hasn't been going for that long.

The Pope's Tiara, there is a serious flaw in your plan to no lynch in order to get information. Assume for a moment we have no power roles whatsoever (which has, ignoring information players have gotten from their rolepm, a 25 % chance of happening). Not lynching in that case will allow the mafia to kill a player, leaving eight players alive. If there are lynches and nightkills each day and night after that, we must hit mafia in either of our next two lynches, or there will be two townies vs two mafiosi, resulting in a mafia win. Right now, if there are no powerroles, we have 3 chances to hit a mafiamember before we have lost. No lynching in that scenario would simply cost us an attempt to lynch mafia. And even if we do have powerroles, the situation isn't much better. A doctor is unlikely to receive information (the chance of a succesful protect is pretty low), and a cop may be nightkilled or have his target nightkilled. And if we have both a cop and doctor, the cop may be blocked too. Basically, if we vote no lynch, we give up a lynch for too little gain.

I agree with this

[WhereIsTony]

A lynch is the only tool to stop the mafia. no lynch gives them a free day.

[WhereIsTony]

ThisisTony- If you had to pick out one person as town, aside from you, who would it be and why?

Well me obviously.

Other than Pope seeming Scummy to me initially no one has really screamed pro-town.

"Syphen" claiming "vanilla" townie seems a bit scummy to me as well.

but neither are confirmed in my mind.

I would say Yuu seems the most likely to be town, by the hesitancy of his posts, but that is a week indicator at best.

(I just think his scum partner would "coach" him better.)

[WhereIsTony]

I did not realzie I was not posting enough content

I thought my answer to the only question posed to me was adequate

So I will follow another posters lead

JonMW - If there were three scum he would be my third suspect but there are only two so while I am thinking town he is the most scummy of the likely town

J_Slr - I Like the avatar and I dont get a scummy reading from him (Yet)

M4yhem - Very active but he is an IC so that is probably normal. MMy opinion of him flips with every post

MichelSableheart -seems knowledgable and of all the players I have the least feeling one way or another

somedamnkid - Excellent posts, I believe he is town for now

Syphen - when he said Vanilla Townie I heard Scum, to me that is the claim Everyone silently maskes so why voice it?

The Pope's Tiara - Pope has had my vote all game, while Syphen is also giving me pause I think the cop role claim is a scummy thing

Yuu - I get a newbie townie vibe, maybe vanilla maybe not


So I will hold my pope vote but definitely get scummy vibes from Syphen and Jon

[WhereIsTony]

Please feel free to ask question?

[WhereIsTony]

I owuld like to Re-iterate my willingness to answer questions

@ pope

Why were you nervous

@ Yuu
Do you worry that IC's being helpful is making them seem more pro town to you than they may be.

@ J-slr

what sort of content?
My content may have dropped off because my suspicion of Pope has not been
abated much, I am not certain he is Scum but gun-to-my-head he is the one i would pick.


Finally

@ pope

you said Syphen after careful considerateion looking at the thread but did not elaborate. That re-enforced my belief you are Scum

[WhereIsTony]

I owuld like to Re-iterate my willingness to answer questions

@ pope

Why were you nervous

@ Yuu
Do you worry that IC's being helpful is making them seem more pro town to you than they may be.

@ J-slr

what sort of content?
My content may have dropped off because my suspicion of Pope has not been
abated much, I am not certain he is Scum but gun-to-my-head he is the one i would pick.


Finally

@ pope

you said Syphen after careful considerateion looking at the thread but did not elaborate. That re-enforced my belief you are Scum

This is a very nice reaction. As for content, to be honest I think we can all see you are firmly latched onto Pope's Tiara and I am going to look in that direction now, but I was wondering who else caught your attention?

Also, most of your content filled posts have been reactions and nothing more, it seems to me that unless we put pressure on you, you say very little.

well that a double-bind I mean if I post I am reactionary If I don't I am lurking

as i said in an earlier post Syphen would be my #2 pick and jon my #3

[WhereIsTony]

WhereisTony- I really don't know either way. What he has said I've had no reason to disagree with. On the other hand, he hasn't said much...although that's changing now.

(Also, the bear freaks me out)

Where is Tony- Your number one suspect seems to be voting for your number two suspect. How do you explain that?
Would you like us all to vote for Pope's tiara too? If so, why aren't you making any effort to convince us he's scum?

t?

1. That could be game-playing but is most likely i am wrong about one of them. Nothing is 100% at this stage.

If I was equally confident in both I would feel ok switiching votes...I don't

2. I would like you all too vote for him if you suspect him, but i think it is early for him in fact if he had too many vote i would unvote until i was surer.


Right now my vote is just an indicator of my suspicion based on the fact that he claimed cop, and he gave a vague "upon further consideration" vote which could mean. "I am going to vote for my partner but i don't want him lynched so i won't give other a reason.

Like i said i am not 100% convinced but I feel not voting is rolling over.

[WhereIsTony]

WhereisTony- I really don't know either way. What he has said I've had no reason to disagree with. On the other hand, he hasn't said much...although that's changing now.

(Also, the bear freaks me out)

Where is Tony- Your number one suspect seems to be voting for your number two suspect. How do you explain that?
Would you like us all to vote for Pope's tiara too? If so, why aren't you making any effort to convince us he's scum?

t?

1. That could be game-playing but is most likely i am wrong about one of them. Nothing is 100% at this stage.

If I was equally confident in both I would feel ok switiching votes...I don't

2. I would like you all too vote for him if you suspect him, but i think it is early for him in fact if he had too many vote i would unvote until i was surer.


Right now my vote is just an indicator of my suspicion based on the fact that he claimed cop, and he gave a vague "upon further consideration" vote which could mean. "I am going to vote for my partner but i don't want him lynched so i won't give other a reason.

Like i said i am not 100% convinced but I feel not voting is rolling over.

my grammar after two is very bad.

2. I would like you all too vote for him if you suspect him, but i think it is early for him to be lynched; in fact if he had too many vote i would unvote until i was surer.

[WhereIsTony]

I am not going to defend myself, because I think the best method of that is too try to out Scum

POpe

#24 claimed random voting was scummy and vote for me as a reaction to being voted

#43 Cliamed his reaction to Random voting was ironic and I did not get it.

#46 claims to be cop, Votes hohum, which in of itself is not suspicious but advocates everyone lynch Hohum

#48 says the real reason he voted hohum was that "he wasnt him"

#50 claims first game jitters, in a game full of first timers

-- at this point I felt secure in my vote and said so

#58 Gives a "if I was mafia it would not behoove me tell you, and then votes for no lynching"

#64 Claims his initial vote for me was random, and that he was being ironic when he voted for me for a random vote, which just happened to be fore him

#103 claims to have carefully reviewed the thread and found reason to vote for syphen ((who coincidently had just voted for pope) does not give any indication of what she had found

#111 I point out some of my reason I suspect pope in question and ask a few, calls me shifty and changes vote back to me.
Most suspiciously when I call him out on not giving a reason for voting for syphen he says for the reasons already stated

(Incidentally what does HoS mean.)


These are my reasons for suspecting Pope IF you think they are good reasons vote for him

If not I would like to hear why, that way I may be convinced I am suspecting the wrong guy.

again I am not 100% sure he is scum (who could be) but he is defintiely the most likely candidate.

[WhereIsTony]

EDit When I say I am not going to defend myself, what I mean is I am not going to give reasons I am not Scum, but rather focus on who i think is.

The reason for this is the only way I can at this point argue for not being scum is to claim that I am town, which is in no way convincing as all 9 of us are claiming town

[WhereIsTony]

Ok my list would be.

Pope's Tiara
Syphen
JonMW
m4yhem
Michel
J_Slr
Somedamnkid
Yuu

[WhereIsTony]

I am perplexed by the statements that my posts lack content.

I have posted why i have voted how i have in post by post detail, outlining all of my suspicion

I have posted not one but TWO list on my thoughts.

what kind of content are you looking for

[WhereIsTony]

Ok my list would be.

Pope's Tiara
Syphen
JonMW
m4yhem
Michel
J_Slr
Somedamnkid
Yuu

I have a bit more time now my three top suspects

Pope - my reasons have been repeated uummm repeatedly - I will honestly be suprised if he is NOT scum.

Syphen - the need to voice a vanilla townie roleclaim strikes me as odd still

Jon - always seems to vote to the path of least resistance, cold be a desperation to stay alive - not necessarily a scum sign but definitely shifty.

[WhereIsTony]

@somedamnkid

who has been more suspicious than pope that i should change my vote? on what grounds do you find them so?


Should I change my vote for the sake of changing it?


on your own list he is ranked #2... and i know your #1 is incorrect.


your logic is flawed.

[WhereIsTony]

I have posted my opinion on everyone.

I have said that my next two suspects are jon and syphen and stated the reasons why.

What I will not do is change my vote from the person i am surest about, just to appear more active.

[WhereIsTony]

meh, real life happens.

I am sure he has a good enough reason. And Ergo will replace him if needed.

[WhereIsTony]

WhereisTony- Do you think somedamnkid is more likely to be scum for attacking you or is it a neutral action? Are him and Yuu protecting each other? If you could lynch Pope's Tiara today, would you, or is there more you'd like to know from him or any other player first? If so, what?

somedamnkid is more on my radar than he was before but i am not convinced he is scum.

It's possible that him and yuu are protecting one another, but I see nothing solid enough for me to assume they are partners.

I would lynch Pope's Tiara today. His lack of response to my case are the final nail in my opinion.

I would like to get more information from him and every other player, and it is possible that i am just wrong here. But it is an uphill struggle for pope's at this point. As for the nature of information, a better explanation for his actions than "I was nervous"

[WhereIsTony]

Yuu- If we all suddenly started voting you, how would you defend yourself? What would you say to change our minds?

I can't defend myself if there's no acusations for me to defend myself of, right? While claiming that someone might be scum is easy, and it isn't hard to come with something that might be an evidence (because we're all pretty much paranoid, since everyone could be scum - and at that point anything is a reason to doubt anyone), I guess that I only would be able to reply to your question if that really happens. I think the responses of people really depend on the context - what people suspect them for, or how the game is going. And while I think I'd be reasonable and try to free myself of any suspicions that might exist (what I think it's pretty hard on the beginning of the game, since I believe we all doubt everyone at least a bit - well, I do lol), I might also freak out. Meh, that's a hard question to answer!

Also, on the Syphen case, I believe in number 3, give him a free pass for today and try to lynch his partner. RL looks pretty hard on him (but if that goes on, asking for a replacement looks good).

Even though it was not my question, I am bored and will comment

I actually agree on this point. I find when accused unless its a specific factual reason best to ignore it and continue scum hunting.

Everyone here is claiming they are town, two of you are lying and the rest of us have the job of ferreting them out.

Now if someone says a specific notion and I feel an explanation will help me (and in doing so the town). I will explain why I did it. Sorry if I am rambling i am having a boring boring day)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
question for IC's how long does a first day usually take.
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[WhereIsTony]

bit of a quandry here.


Pop acted pretty scummy but, his replacement may not come off as such.

Not sure idf i should re-assess based on the new guy, or consider that the new guy may just be a better player.

[WhereIsTony]

Syphen, WhereIsTony:
Your lack of self-defense is making me progressively more suspicious of you. Defend yourselves!

As stated in an earlier post I don't think defending yourself with a few accusation or votes is productive, i prefer to continue to hunt for scum, the best defense is taking out the Mafia.

I am starting to find Michel more scummy with his vasnishing for prolong periods showing up and throwing out a few theories.

It seems like he stirs things up sees what damage he does and then resurfaces once things have settled.

Could be scum baiting could be trying to turn the town on itself.

[WhereIsTony]

unvote

vote Michel

reason stated two or three posts ago

[WhereIsTony]

I would Actually revisit my list

Tum
Michel
Jon

would be my top three

[WhereIsTony]

Syphen's lurking stopped being so suspicious to me once i realized he was just not on much.

[WhereIsTony]

I was hoping for a reaction, or a post from michel thus the vote.

[WhereIsTony]

Unvote, Vote:tumescence

[WhereIsTony]

I had explained my reasons on this vote so many times.

I have been voting for pope/tum from the beginning, I changed it to try to get a reaction from michel despite my strongest suspicion being on pope/tum.

Once michel was proidded I went back.

[WhereIsTony]

Oh SDK, nice of you to join us, I guess it only took a mod prodding.

My vote on tume is because i was convinced pope is scum, and just because tume has done better at seeming not scummy (before his post got so desperate have not assuaged me).

The reasons I have voted for pope I have gone over again and again. I voted for michel to try to get a reaction this was no longer needed once he was prodded.

Then I returned to my previous vote as Tum has not convinced me he was not scum.

And yes I tend to post frequent short post, often from my cell phone. personally I prefer it to vanishing for extended periods of time.

What information have you provided in you occasional overly aggressive posts?

[WhereIsTony]

my "follow-up" vote was not a follow to your vote it was a follow to michel's prodding

[WhereIsTony]

I would hold off, It makes sense to hear from syphens replacement, and the michel if he does not get replaced as well.

Normally I would vote for a random person, to spur reaction, and then change to person I suspect more.

It just happpens my firsat random vote ended up being the one i suspected.

[WhereIsTony]

Hard to say with Syphen gone for awhile its hard to get a read

My top guesses would be
Michel or somedamnkid. Michel stirs things up and SDK vanishes at length and comes off way aggressive. Sometimes you seem like a potential mafia member because of your desire to speed up the game.

[WhereIsTony]

This might be my last post for about 4 days, as I fly to America today.

Tumescence,... who would you have voted?

Currently my suspicions rest primarily on WhereIsTony and JonMW. Syphen is also very suspicious, but I'll reserve opinion till he speaks up.

I would lynch WhereIsTony. I already gave reasons why I suspect him as early as post#183. I'll catalogue all or most of them here:
1) has many insubstantial, one-line posts.
2) was voting for Pope based on factual errors (he said Pope "role-claimed" cop)
3) his lengthy post#106 on why Pope is scum is actually very weak
4) has constantly refused to defend himself; has not addressed my arguments against him
5) claims he does not want to defend himself because he is scum-hunting, but is in reality scumhunting very little
6) asked everyone whether he should reevaluate his opinion of me based on MY posts, but then failed to reevaluate his opinion. He constantly keeps referring to his earlier reasons, but fails to provide current ones.
7) put me at L-1 without giving me a chance to defend myself

Reason #6 was taken from SomeDamnKid's post. I suggest you read it, because it raises some intriguing points.

It is still possible that Tony is merely a terribly unskilled, time-strapped townie... but I would still lean towards lynching him as he's our best bet now, and is helping the town very little. As time progresses, and suspicions on him grow, and he constantly refuses to defend himself, he will only become a liability and distraction for the town.

First of all, the terribly unskilled comment is way out of line.

1. I disagree, I see no problem with one line post if they are frequent.
2. I believe he did role claim, your desperate claims otherwise have not convinced me
3. how is it weak exactly?
4. The innocent need not defend themselves, and as I said the best way to defend yourself is to find scum. anything else could easily be a lie.
5. see number four.
6. I asked if I should re-evaluate you, got the answer "both" and have decided that while you may be a better liar than pope, it does not change your role.
7. I merely changed my vote back since my pseudo prod was no longer needed.

[WhereIsTony]

Tum keeps acting like the only reason to vote for hjim is pope's cop claim.

He also moved to lynch people who have not posted, and frequently went with an anyone but me tactic both of which are very scummy.

[WhereIsTony]

I also don't buy into your flqawed argument that

a) my reasons for voting for you are old (as if over time if you were scum you had changed roles)
b) you have not had time to defend yourself

a and b can't both be true.

[WhereIsTony]

Welcome afatchic, thank you for the quick list. It will be good to get more post from you since I am clueless at this point to syphen.

[WhereIsTony]

I think frequent short post are as high quality, as occasional long one, obviously someone has less to say than someone who is commenting on a week's worth of post.

I fail to see how pope being scum, is somehow washed away because he was replaced by someone more skilled at lying. The roles have not changed.

And what accusation have I not defended, what defense is there other than "I am town"

What have i been accused of that needs defending exactly. Short post? covered
lack of content - I have provided an indepth case way back when against pope which got almost no comment.

Oh thats right pope is replaced - I guess the new guy has chnged popes role..

The town lucked out that tume was not here from the beignning,.

[WhereIsTony]

A question for all of those who replaced someone.

If you did not know the role of the person you were replacing would you think they were mafia?

[WhereIsTony]

That actually matches my take on syphen as well, although i did believe he was lurking at first.

[WhereIsTony]

I think it's worth the risk. Consider what will happen if we don't do it and the cop gets killed; we won't know who he investigated and that loses the town valuable information.

Also, the cop will not be lynched today. If he is one vote away from lynch then he only needs to say 'I'm the cop' and he's safe, at least from us. It's better to be killed by the mafia than the town. It's true that the scum can work out who isn't a cop from their results, but I think it's worth the chance of having a confirmed innocent later on.

IF that were true than scum could say I am the cop to avoid a lynch, I suppose then the REAL cop could also claim but then its a word v. word. but then the mob would know who the cop is.

So the question is

Is it worth losing the cop to definitely out one scum member?

[WhereIsTony]

Right now we are 5-2

scenario #1

Jon is cop we lynch pop and he is scum, the doctor would know to protect jon, but the scum would likely attack elsewhere.

we are 4-1 start of day 3.


Scenario #2

Jon is lying pop is the doc, he is killed, we come in at 3-2 tomorrow but certainly lynch jon

We are then 2-1 at the start of day 4

[WhereIsTony]

I would like to hear from sdk and yuu before voting

[WhereIsTony]

I am seriously torn I am leaning toward jon being a cop, but I would HATE to cost us a doctor.

I listed the two scenario's to try to see which was better.

I think it is a bit of a stretch that Jon as scum picks the doctor.

I am 80 percent toward voting jon.

I would like to hear from SDK just to get an opinion. before the night gag is placed.

[WhereIsTony]

I typed that too quick I meant 80 percent to voting to lynch pop not jon.

I think the chance of jon being scum and happening to pick the doctor is below the chance of jon being the cop and picking scum.


my gut says jon is telling the truth but I screwed up with Tum so I am trying not to rush to judgement

[WhereIsTony]

this suspense is killing me. I have typed in a vote 4 (for pop) 4 times now.

[WhereIsTony]

Screw it.

Vote populartajo

[WhereIsTony]

Well Jon is pretty much certainly the cop.

Fos Yuu, Somedamnkid kid for not voting

Not enough to vote because, simply not believing jon is not enough to vote.

[WhereIsTony]

Vote afatchic

A no lynch is never a good idea and ALWAYS seems scummy to me.

I suspect everyone but Jon at this point.

Also just because theres a cop and a roleblocker does not mean there IS a doctor does it? (thats an actual question)

[WhereIsTony]

No I meant the fact that you did not vote as jon said was a possible scum tell but not neough for me to vote for you

[WhereIsTony]

No lynch

Scum kills doctor.

Jon or investigates townie who is killed. or scum kill guy jon investigates

We then are down to 4, no better off excpet now there are 2 possible scum targets instead of 3.

that night jon is killed.

-------------------------------------

or we go for a lynch today best case we get the mafia guy

worst case we kill the investigated townie. this leaves jon, one guy investigated ad two not.

Jon investigates. one if if he is scum he is lynched the next day if not the other is.


Or we try to lynch a guy who turns out to be the doc. the guy claims doc, then we pick a new target. Even if the scum claims doc as well we kill one or the other and we KNOW if we are wrong the other one who claimed is scum.

We 100% cannot go wrong with a lynch assuming the doc claims if he is endangered.

----------------

A no lynch always beneifts scum.

[WhereIsTony]

So with a no lynch we definitely lose a townie possibly the doc

with a lynch if we do lose the doc, it will only be because two people claimed doc and we chose the wrong one. in which case we have a 100% chance the next day no matter who is NK'd

[WhereIsTony]

so if we lynch a townie who is not doc, then the doc defends jon tonight.


Even if scum kill the doctor in the night, and jon targets him losing a night,
we would be two def townies (jon and the other investagated townie) versus one scum.

so as long as jon does not get killed...a sure thing if we dont lynch the doc, town wins

now if we do lynch the doc, it will only be because two people claimed it and tommorrow we have a sure lynch.

I suspect if we do not lynch scum I will buy it tonight but it matters not because the town will win.

[WhereIsTony]

I meant night killed, not lynched

[WhereIsTony]

that was my point

[WhereIsTony]

well if he is hammered and is town

than tonight the doctor should protect jon, then no matter who gets killed town wins.

there is no reason for a townie not to hammer since we KNOW he is not the doc.

[WhereIsTony]

Yeah, if he dies today, even being townie, it's confirmed the town will win. So there's no reason for not hammering him.

Except there is, I'm scum. (And I would've gotten away with it too if it weren't for those meddling kids!)

Anyway, I see no reason to delay the upcome of this game, I'm not exactly the type who wants to take more people to the grave with me. You all played so wonderfully! My only hope was or for you all to kill the doctor today, or for there be no lynch (thanks for the idea, Afatchic!) and for me to kill one of the people Jon investigated

Like, it would be

Jon, Innocent #1, Doctor, Townie, Me.

If I killed or Innocent #1 or Doc/Townie confirmed to be innocent tonight, then there would be left Jon and one innocent to decide who to lynch, and maybe I'd have gotten away with it. But sadly for me Jon is an awesome cop *hails* and I totally FAIL at spotting power roles.

I hope I'll be better scum by the time we meet again, I totally want a revanche now. I'm sorry for not being able to pull an awesome finale. Believe me, I wished I could've killed more of you too X3 I could've let Afatchic die and kill someone else tonight, but there'd be no point, and it would only delay our next game. Sooo..

Vote: Yuu

very classy Yuu.

unvote, vote yuu

[WhereIsTony]

Woo-hooo

i

[WhereIsTony]

ergo where did you find that awesome avatar?