Mini 645 - Innocence Falls (Game Over)

[Cass]

Vote: Matin

Because I can.

[Cass]

Yes, I remember you...

WIll get serious too now.

I hope you keep that promise

To all others: I'm sure habit gets what I mean - but the game we're talking about is ongoing (although he isn't in it anymore...) so I can't explain it to you guys.

[Cass]

Really? It might be me, but I've never seen my joke vote accomplish anything. Am i doing it wrong?

[Cass]

TPT is town, by the way.

Why are you so sure?

I dislike how you make many posts, but with little content. Enough reason to change my random vote into a non-random one.

Unvote
Vote: Simenon

[Cass]

TPT is town, by the way.

Why are you so sure?

I'm not sure. Where did I say I was sure?

The way you phrased that sounds like stating a fact rather than an opinion. It is strange to state something like that without explaining yourself.

I dislike how you make many posts, but with little content. Enough reason to change my random vote into a non-random one.

Unvote
Vote: Simenon

And yet, you have yet to point out where I'm adding "little content". I'm commenting on the game and trying to find scum. That, in my opinion, is enough content for me.

We'll see, the game has only just begun. Note that I'm not calling for your lynch, for now I just feel better about a vote on you than about one on Matin (my random vote).

[Cass]

Cass, did you refer to that stupid thing of habitang when you meta-talked to him ?? how serious is this guy ?

I can't go into that, but read his posts in Newbie 643 and judge for yourself.

I much dislike the way TPT is posting, defending himself with 'I was not serious'. You're not helping town, at all. As things stand, I would prefer a TPT lynch at the end of the day - but I'm in no hurry to end this day. It is quite interesting...

Habitang is blundering about, but in his case that's a nulltell.

I do not like Simenon's explanation. Posting gut feelings (for that's what it was...) as if they are facts confuses things. And even more so in the long run. It also makes it very easy for him to backtrack on things he has said, later in the game. My vote stays where it is.

[Cass]

Well, I think not helping town is generally a scum-tell But yes, if there is no evidence on anyone, I think lynching the least helpful player is not a bad thing. It's the smallest loss for town, and he might just be scum... I much prefer evidence, though.

[Cass]

Both you and Cass like to throw out assertions without backing them up

That's what

you

did and what started this whole debate.

I have no interest in decreasing the votes on him.

I have already stated that I felt the bandwagon was a bad one. I like bandwagons, but I'm not going to back a bad one.

How is saying someone is town, and the badnwagon on them is bad,

not

a defense of that person?

1. Show where I've posted "gut feelings" as fact.

the only option that's left is "irrational townie" or "scum who is trying to act like an irrational townie." I

felt

the former.

(Bolding mine.) Yet you posted 'TPT is town', and refused to explain that.

2. Show where I've backtracked.

You haven't yet. I will as soon as you start doing it. The excuse 'short posts are good' will not convince me.

A question: isn't 'TPT is town' an assertion? Isn't your explanation of that comment full of assertions? Or are these very special, rare,

good assertions

?

[Cass]

I like the activity in this game.

Simenon has to learn to read more carefully. Either that, or he is overly aggressive in a scummy manner. I feel good about my vote on him, overdefensiveness this early (with just one or two votes on him) also tends to be a scum-tell, plus his slight OMGUS-ing on me and nureins... bad vibes all over the place.

[Cass]

What I mean by overdefensive / aggressive is the way he went against me, half-reading and misinterpreting my posts in a very negative way. Just reread, it's only four or so posts. Even though mine was the first vote on him and I was hardly pushing a wagon there. Originally, he was just my first non-random vote.

Also, his overreaction on the comments about his 'TPT is town' post. IMO,

he

is the one who turned that into a big deal by responding the way he did.

The slight OMGUS is his 'I dislike Cass and Nuriens making assertions', while that was exactly what we were questioning him for. Also his hypocrisy about voicing gut feelings and how he claims he wasn't defending TPT when in fact he was.

[Cass]

Simenon, all I did was swap my random vote for a vote with a weak reason. The way you responded to that makes it a vote with a

stronger

reason.

You are still contradicting yourself. First you say "X is town", is a good post - now you say "assertions must be backed up". Those two opinions are mutually exclusive.
If you can say "X is town", why can't I say "X gives me scummy vibes". Or "misrepresenting is scummy". What's the difference? That it's directed at you?
If I had posted "Simenon is town", would you have urged me to back it up?

[Cass]

Allright. That sounds reasonable. And I have to be careful not to tunnelvision, especially this early in the game.

Unvote: Simenon

[Cass]

@Matin - how was that a quick reversal? He defended himself like four times before I dropped the case. I also find that if I tunnelvision on day one, I'm usually wrong.

For the record: what I disliked most about Sim, was the way he misread and misrepresented me. Everything else was pretty irrevelant. I think that's also what Nuriens picked up on, making his vote in my eyes a null-tell.
Did he do anything scummy besides supporting my vote?

[Cass]

I do not understand the imply / infer debate. Is it even meant to be serious? English is not my first language either - I do understand the difference between the two words, but not how one would be more aggressive, or scummier??

I also fail to see Habitang's case on Jahudo.

I dislike TPT's playstyle. I find it very hard to tell when he is serious. He seems to try to distract town with irrelevant stuff (like infer/imply). I don't see him scum-hunting yet.

FoS: The Pope's Tiara

Andycyca: I had almosy forgotten he's in the game. That is not a good sign at all. Here's a vote, to put a bit of a spotlight on you... you deserve it

Vote: Andycyca

[Cass]

@Andy: thanks for posting. However, I have to agree the posts were superficial. You respond only to the things on yourself and to some theory questions. No stands or opinions on any other players or interactions.

This also makes it hard to ask you direct questions, as of your request. This also can be a scumtell, in my experience. I will leave my vote on you, this case seems as good as any for now - which is pretty shaky, but we only just got started. Some questions then:
What do you get from the Simenon / Nureins fight? And from my fight with Sim? And from habitang's response to all of it? Who is scummiest in all that? Who is buddying / distancing with whom?
How do you feel about TPT's behaviour?

[Cass]

I'd like to see the full case and hear all the scumtells, because I still don't see Nurien's scumminess. Nor Ythill's, to be honest.
Can we also quit the 'ad naziem' arguments, kthnx?

[Cass]

I still don't see either Nuriens or Ythill as scum. Ythill's case sounded good at first sight, but Nuriens defense was good.

The one who is rapidly rising as a suspect is TPT. Where is he? He's lurking like there is no tomorrow, after not having cotributed yet at all. Goatrevolt also stays far too much on the sidelines.

Unvote
Vote: The Pope's Tiara
FoS: Goatrevolt

[Cass]

Nuriens and Ythill, I think you're both now tunnelvisioning on eachother. A (perhaps starnge) request for the both of you: could you please each make a case on anyone that isn't the other? It would really help me compare.

@Ythill: yes, I dislike his 'Goebels' talk, and I dislike your misinterpreting and tunnelvision too. But he explained his actions well. And you both seem to be actively scum-hunting. I see bigger suspects than you two at this time.

[Cass]

Ah, welcome Tritch, replacement of TPT I see. You want the town to look at me, well go ahead. However, do you not think it's scummy to joke around sarcastically on day 1, not contribute anything and then disappear without a word?
Your presence indicates it was flaking rather than lurking, but how were we supposed to know that? So please explain what's scummy about my vote.

@Ythill: thanks for the case on habit.
@Habit: watch it, you're doing the suicidal townie thing again We

will

lynch someone today.

[Cass]

Yep, my vote on Tritch (actually TPT) is mostly a placeholder now. It will very likely move soon, depending on Tritches actions. I have currently no desire to see him lynched.

[Cass]

Welcome Trich, and way to knock the OMGUS out of the park on your first post. You can see my feelings about TPT, so sorry that he (she?) left a mess for you, but it seems you have to do the clean-up before I take my vote off.

QFT.

I'll go back to habit's setup speculation in a later day, probably, when it may be more relevant.

[Cass]

Still waiting for Tritch to reply... say something, anything...

[Cass]

Uhm, habitang, what are you trying to do?? You were not even under attack and you post some kind of dramatic desperate defense?

FoS Habitang

Not unvoting Tritch before he replies.

[Cass]

I usually FoS scummy posts or actions. And while habit's post was definitely scummy, and I can't see much wronmg with the votes it earned him, for out-of-game reasons it doesn't make me want to lynch him. I find his pushing of Jahudo strange, but I don't see what scum could hope to accomplish by something like that. I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt at least for this day.
Some of the votes on him could be opportunistic scum, but I wouldn't put money on it. I still feel worst about the lurkers in this game.

[Cass]

I still feel worst about the lurkers in this game.

Just in case I have a different view on who the lurkers are...who are they ?

Tritch is numero uno obviously. The other are Nhat and Andycyca, who seem to be lurking in plain sight. I think there's a scum among them, I wish they would post more so I could find him... I'm not sure I should include Matin, as he is being replaced.

And I have no clue whether habit is town or scum, I just don't want to quicklynch, in fact I do not want to lynch him at all, not for that post alone.

@habitang: whatever you do now, don't roll over and die. And unless you're scum - don't even

think

about self-voting.

[Cass]

He just hasn't posted much (new) content, at least not recently. Posting, but not scumhunting, is what I mean.

[Cass]

Yes, I also dislike erratic players in general, because I can't read them. But habitang seems capable of learning and improving, I'm just trying to help him along a bit. At the risk of being seen as his buddy :p I have honestly no clue if he's town or not, but I hate to lynch people for that reason alone...

Tritch seems to have fled... ahwell... looking forward to the replacement I guess.

[Cass]

I'm not very happy about the Jahudo wagon. Goat's case is well-researched, but all Jahudo's doubt and coaching / not voting / etc. was for TPT and Habitang. Two erratic players who seem(ed) new and/or clumsy and who are quite impossible to read. Now, that would indeed suit a scum, but it would also cause a townie to be unconviced. In fact, being unsure on day 1 seems more (or as much) a town as a scum tell. How could a townie be sure of anything?
Maybe I'm just saying this because I feel exactly the same way about TPT and habit (but am a bit more liberal with votes ), but I have also been swinging between coaching, voting, ignoring. Right now I'm at a point where I'll leave these two be for a bit. Habit is trying, Tritch will be replaced, I'll give it some time.

What's actually more worrying about Jah is that he seems to keep his opinions limited to these two 'easy victims'. I don't think that's actively scummy though.

[Cass]

Did you just call me 'an iceberg in your scumeter'? Is that a good thing?

I really, really hope Tritch and Matin will get replaced soon. They actually could both be scum for all we know, making this game very hard to win :p

[Cass]

I don't find anyone in this particular debate suspicious, certainly not suspicious enough for a lynch... In fact, though it's very far from ideal, if there was a deadline situation right now, I'd preferably vote the empty TPT/Tritch slot, or even the empty Matin-slot over anyone else They feel the scummiest, but because they are gone, they can't defend or do anything else to change it. Which is bloody annoying.

[Cass]

Tritch is being replaced. As is Matin. It's been that way for... some time.

[Cass]

Wonderful! I'm very interested in your conclusions, also those of Karne.

[Cass]

Very good. My vote on your predecessor stays on you until then. After you and Karne have given your analysis I'll do some rereading too and see if there's a better place for that vote.

[Cass]

@sirdanilot: do you have anything to say about the players you replaced? Or the votes you inherited from them?

[Cass]

nuriens, look at the way you and Cass teamed up against Simenon for very poor reasons. A lot of what I see in those posts seems evident of a scumpair pushing a wagon. The way Cass jumped off looked like she realized it was a lost cause and tried to get you to get off too.

1) There was no teaming, if someone does something obviously anti-town (and heaps hypocrisy on top of it...), generally several persons ill go after them. Especially if he was the first player in the game to draw suspicion. This is the weakest evidence of a pairing I've ever seen.
2) The reasons weren't poor. I do not regret attacking him for what he did at all.
3) I jumped off because I realized I was getting tunnelvisioned, which is a bad thing early day one (perhaps always). This doesn't mean I dropped all suspicion, just that I went to look at some other players too. I

never

told Nuriens or anyone else to stop suspecting him! I never even said

I

had stopped suspecting him!

FoS: Citizen Karne

for lying and bs scumpairing.

[Cass]

ebwop: ill = will

[Cass]

A pity that habit has to be replaced, his posting has improved much recently. Well, let's hope the mod finds a replacement soon!

I should be more active in this game, sorry guys... My vote is still on SirDan, but I really need to reread to see if that's still valid. I hope to find time for that next week, until then:

Unvote

[Cass]

Allright, did some rereading. My opinion on the replacements:

Sirdanilot (replacing Tritch/TPT): His predecessors left a very bad impression, but his first posts are of good quality. One thing I do not like is how he at first avoids mentioning TPT and Tritch. Other than that, he is perceptive and analytical and his cases have a decent basis. After rereading him, I think he's town.

Karne (replacing Matin): sees a nuriens-Cass scumpair. If I understand him correctly that's because we both weakly (in his opinion) attacked Simenon, we 'teamed up on him'. Seems very non-commital on all the other players. Votes Nuriens. He saw me trying to get Nuriens to back off Simenon, which strikes me as odd since I wasn't aware I did this. His other posts have no relevant content.

FoS: Karne

because he really has said very little. He only attacked me and nuriens for attacking Sim (which happened a pretty long time ago), plus he does this with conspiracy theory and misrepresentation rather than strong arguments.

I reread Matin too, to see if that would change my opinion - and he was pretty scummy too. Lurking through the early game, then opportunistically throwing suspicion on a lot of players without committing himself. he also left his random vote on for a really long time, which could be a scum-tell. So, I'm fairly confident to:

Vote: Citizen Karne

[Cass]

Well, I asked you (though you answered a similar question soon after), but what I find strange is that you had to be asked

at all

. I mean, your predecessors had been close to lynch, were scummy, and you inherited two votes from them. You did not even mention those, didn't say whether you thought they were good or bad votes, didn't say if you agreed or not that TPT and/or Tritch were scummy. That's what I mean.

[Cass]

Hi. I'm still here. I have to say i don't see the case on Sirdan. His predecessors were pretty bad, but he seems to be acting like a townie. (A frustrated townie by now...) Mostly a gut feeling. But I have seen no scum-tells from him at all. Ythill is either scummy or a horribly tunnel-visioned townie, I"m not sure. I dislike Sim's 'analysis' of nuriens' playstyle, that one does smell scummy to me.

After all that, however, I still much prefer my case on Karne.

[Cass]

You put the word analysis in quotations, but I never used that word.

Why?

Those aren't quotation marks, they're irony marks. It was an analysis, but I dont consider it worthy of that name, thus.

[Cass]

I really don't see the scumminess of Sirdanilot, Ythill looks worse to me in this argument. But I think Karne would be the best lynch. I thought so a while ago and nothing happened to change my mind.

[Cass]

I really don't see the scumminess of Sirdanilot, Ythill looks worse to me in this argument. But I think Karne would be the best lynch. I thought so a while ago and nothing happened to change my mind.

I'm curious as to your reasoning here.

I posted my case on you 1,5 weeks ago (august 25, my post 37 if you look at them in isolation). You have not responded to it, nor have you done anything else to change my mind since then.

[Cass]

This game seems to have a lot of one-on-one fights, which seems to be making it hard for us to decide on a lynch. Still, I think it's time we start working towards one. I obviously think Karne is scum, but either nobody agrees with me, or we're all too busy with our private crusades to look at the cases of others. So, in hopes of moving things along, I'll do some rereading of player interactions. I'm going to start with Ythill:

Ythill:

attacked TPT from the beginning, somewhat stubbornly but not too aggressively. Then he went after Nuriens for a long time, aggressively (calling him scum etc.) He disliked my request to focus on someone else for a bit, but he did express some doubt about Nuriens at the same time. He then makes a (not very strong) case on Habit. Backtracks a bit, slowly, on the nuriens attack. He asks repeatedly for people to tell if they think Nuriens is a noob. He defends Habit after his emotional outburst. He thinks I was scummy in that whole situation for fosing but not voting.

An interesting quote:

My only real problem with the Goat case is that he doesn't seem to have any doubt, which is unsettling but may be a function of his playstyle.

We could say exactly the same thing about Ythills playstyle, so this is a somewhat strange thing for him to say. Not long after, he votes Jahudo, on what feels like a pretty opportunistic case - going with Goat. Again, he keeps plenty of doubt open on Jahudo being scum.

He never mentions Matin/Karne until this quote:

Karne seems solid which is odd, because Matin was on my suspect list.

Yet he never named Karne as such, must have been one of his unnamed suspects (very convenient to have some of those to later fall back on...)

He calls Sirdan slippery, and syas:

@sirdan: Look back at my scum-list, votes, and cases. Rest assured that if I vote for you or push you toward the noose, I will do so with an evidence-based case that gives you something to defend against.

Yet in his next post, he changes his vote from Jahudo to Sirdan: "for the previously stated reasons." Sirdan of course comments on this and he responds with:

For now, I will say that one of the chief reasons I put my vote on you was that Jah has defended well against me and you are next in line for scrutiny. But I do have a case (it was eluded by a couple of my posts including the definition of "slippery") and I will post it as soon as I have time.

When heposts the case a bit later, I have to admit it is a pretty convincing case. However, het then goes into it so aggressively that confusing chaos descends again.

Conclusions:

A bad vibe off the first part of the day (before the replacements), some of his posts feel quite dishonest and there are a few contradictions. He seems very tunnelvisioned in his attacks, yet he keeps all his options open. Those could be (weak) scumtells. I feel a connection to habitang, though this is of course irrelevant until one of them flips.
His recent attack on Sirdan seems stronger and more honest. I may dislike the style in which he attacks, but the case itself seems solid.


I'll reread Sirdan/TPT next, to see how I feel about Ythill's case on him after that.

[Cass]

TPT:

random omgus votes Goat. Votes Ythill, sarcastically, this also seems to be omgus. More sarcasm, then a horrible, horrible self-vote. None of his posts seem to contain anything useful. Votes ectomancer for word-use (??) He... I don't know... that is the most anti-town play I've seen yet, from an otherwise intelligent coherent poster.... Then he disappears.

Tritch:

Made only one post, suggesting that the people voting for him were scum (specifically, nhat and me). Then disappeared.

Sirdanilot:

Comes in with some very weak, vague reads on people. Then makes a case on Goat (but doesn't vote or FoS!), throws suspicion on Simenon and on everyone on the habit wagon. He ignored my request to talk about his predecessors, but later answered Ythill's repeated request. He goes on about his case on goat, but in fact never votes him. After some badgering, he decides that Ythill is scum for attacking him, and omgus votes him.

Conclusions:

I find it hard to decide. Scum? Or frustrated and insecure town? I did hate the play of TPT and Tritch. But his defenseand his overall response to Ythill attacking him do not strike me as scummy. On the other hand, he hasn't done anything terribly pro-town either. I'm not convinced he's town, but I don't think he's the best lynch either.

This Ythill vs. Sirdan thing reminds me of the Simenon vs. Nuriens thing - a lot of noise and chaos, people getting upset, and neither party looks much better than the other. Which makes me think it might well be two townies fighting.

[Cass]

Citizen Karne is obviously my top pick. Right now I'd be willing to compromise on (in no particular order) Sirdan, Pacman (habit) and Ythill. All of these might be scum and their lynches would yield information.

[Cass]

I don't know what to say about who to lynch...

Surely you must have something to say? Who would you prefer to lynch, or who wouldn't you lynch? Do you think it's a horrible idea to lynch you?Why?

[Cass]

Heh, if we're going to lynch people over some kind of consensus-compromise, you should at least used ranked lists. Count 'favorite lynches' double or triple. Sirdan may be on my list, but he isn't number one or two on that list. I'd only hammer him if the alternative was no lynch or someone not on my list.

[Cass]

I want to hear something from Karne, Nhat and pacman - but aside from that i agree very much with ending the day. I like where my vote is now, but I'll hammer any of our top three rather then prolonging the day even more.

[Cass]

4b) So I don’t mind the badgering, but it affects sirdan’s reactions depending on his personality and I think that leads to the possibility of misinterpretation. In the back and forths where sirdan says Ythill is refusing to continue the debate and Ythill says sirdan is side-stepping the argument, I feel that the badgering affects this to an extent I don’t see a strong enough tell. I’ve been unsure how effective the “adversarial player” persona is to untested players.

Thank you, that is exactly what I was trying to say earlier, but I couldn't find the right words to explain myself. This is why I feel so unsure about ythill and Sirdan both.

[Cass]

*Sigh* More replacements. How about we just lynch Sir Karne instead of dragging the day out more waiting for replacements? I'm sorry if this sounds scummy, but my interest in this game is starting to flag - it's time for something to happen.

After reading recent posts, I've decided I won't vote Sirdan. I think he's town. I

will

switch my vote to Ythill or Pacman if we can agree on one of those lynches.

[Cass]

Hi Kuribo. And I saw Karne on the site today, so if you read this, Citizen karne: please come back and help us finish this day. I think this is one of the strangest games of mafia I've played yet. This whole compromise lynch is... different.

[Cass]

Well, Kuribo, that was an interesting read. I agree on many points, but sometimes it felt more like a caricature of the game... not that it doesn't deserve one. What i don't get is how my being tired of this day is scummy, while for Ythill it isn't. Nor is my case on Karne OMGUS. I think he's scum. I'm less convinced of anyone else. It's because I do think it's important WHO we lynch I also hate when people say 'give it up, this lynch is not going to happen', that really gets on my nerves. To quote your own words: I can vote whoever I damn well please.

Although after your long posts I'm tempted to vote Nuriens, if only because it'd be so very interesting if he actually flips town... (Yes, it'd be interesting as well if you're right about him.)

I also fail to see what made you prefer Pacman suddenly, even over scum-extreme-please-lynch-him-now Nuriens.

I also hate 30 page day ones.

[Cass]

No particular reason. Might as well have been your name there, I didn't look back at Kuribo's post, but wnet from memory. My point was how something can be scummy for me, but not at all for others. (And no, I do not find this scummy in the least, which is why it doesn't seem so important to me who exactly said it.) Didn't mean to ignore you, the point wasn't about you or Ythill. I question why I got accused, not why you two didn't.

[Cass]

Well, I guess my vote is now on Darox, and that seems a pretty good place for it to be. Scummy scummy posting there. The only part I agree with is that this game needs to get moving.

[Cass]

MOD: Can we get a deadline then?

I'm getting really tired of this day. I don't like day one anyways, can we please move on? I've no idea qwhat the vote count is anymore, but I'm pretty sure no one's at L-1

So.

Unvote
Vote: Pacman

Looks like we maybe can get a majority for that. Right, people?

[Cass]

How about people vote instead of talking about intentions? If someone actually gets to L-1, who knows what will happen? Wouldn't that be more interesting than all this bickering about misunderstandings?

[Cass]

Yeah, after these last few pages, I find it less and less likely that Pacman is scum. I have some doubt about Sirdan, but he is low on my suspect list. ythill looks scummy too. But by far the scummiest, confirming all my earlier suspicions, is Darox.

Unvote
Vote: Darox

After his recent line of posting, I just can't believe he is town.

[Cass]

Yeah, after these last few pages, I find it less and less likely that Pacman is scum. I have some doubt about Sirdan, but he is low on my suspect list. ythill looks scummy too. But by far the scummiest, confirming all my earlier suspicions, is Darox.

Unvote
Vote: Darox

After his recent line of posting, I just can't believe he is town.

Do you seriously think you're going to swing one of these wagons completely off track and onto Darox in just three days?

No. I think he is scum. I seriously don't see why you are so attached to your false dilemma. Or are you just attached to Darox? You do seem awfuly worried about losing him:

Also, you're actively trying to shift focus onto Darox with a deadline three days away: knowing full well that 3 days is hardly any time at all for a brand new bandwagon to pick up.

Because scum don't wanna pile on pacman's bandwagon so they're quicklynching you.

Have you considered we may be right about his alignment? In that case this 'brand new' (no it isn't) bandwagon would be a really good thing.
I'm not going to vote Sirdan, for obvious reasons. I'm not going to vote Pacman, because I don't think he's scum. I'm trying to lynch scum, is that ok with you?

FoS: Kuribo

- Nuriens waiting for counterclaim is somewhat disturbing.
- Kuribo telling him to unvote unless counterclaim, but also asking for no counterclaim strikes me as dishonest.

[Cass]

Right, ok. You came in, said Pacman was most suspicious. No reason given. Two other suspects were me and Nuriens. Me because I attacked Simenon. Nuriens because he is scummy. Those were your entire cases.
You explained your 'case' on Pacman, saying he could be newb scum as well as newb town and he seems scum. Again, brilliantly reasoned... You see no reason to explain why Nuriens is scummy.
You refuse to talk about your predecessors and claim there was no reason to go after them. (That's just bullshit.) You apparantly want the day to end without further discussion, even though you yourself have basically said nothing yet.
There follow some posts with little relevant content. You misrepresent Jahudo, saing he claimed 'attacking Cass is anti-town'. That's not what he said.
The rest of your posts are filler and recently it's you rolling over and dying or whatever you are doing by saying you like your wagon.

I see nothing in your posts to convince me you are helping the town. Idem dito with your predecessors posts. You were my number one suspect all along and nothing has happened to change that. (Except for Sirdan and Pacman lowering themselves on the suspect list, making you an even stronger number one.)

[Cass]

Darox, I explained my case on you. Your response can be summarized as 'I fail to see the problem'. I could involve Karne and the other predecessors, but a) I already made that case and b) your response is already known: 'I fail to see the problem'.

Well, I fail to see anything in your posts that's helpful to the town. Let alone anything to make up for the scumminess of Karne and co. The fact that you don't see why people attacked them and therefore see no reason to defend them, doesn't exactly convince me that those attacks were misplaced.
Now look at the posts of Pacman and Sirdan: at least they are trying to help. And they both have claims that I have currently no reason to disbelieve. So I don't want that false dilemma, and I can't accept them anymore as compromise lynches.

[Cass]

I'd like to see a claim, and thre I'd like to see a hammer. I think it is really really utterly weird that Kuribo calls this wagon 'the most retarded ever'. Even if it's wrong, I've seen far worse ones... I don't get why is suddenly getting so upset that 'not the best lynch candidate' is getting bandwagoned. After earlier comments like 'give it up, this lynch is not going to happen', 'let's end the day', etc. it seems a contradiction that suddenly only his favorite candidate should be eligible for lynch.

Worse, it feels like he was strongly pushing that lynch with every means at his disposal and gets all emotional now that it fails. And that really makes no sense (on day 1).

[Cass]

Look, Kuribo, I can still not see what Darox did to convince anyone he was town. He was not so much a lurker as a village idiot - and he wasn't even trying. He definitely wasn't lynched for being 'aggressive', that was his own emotional outburst which seemed pretty disconnected to reality to me... I'm also pretty sure that Jahudo & me are both town, and that the wagon wasn't (strongly) scum-driven. I agree with the earlier poster who thinks that scum jumped on last minute (or perhaps not at all?).

This makes me on the one hand more convinced that Sirdan is town (with al the people pushing the false dilemma), but on the other hand the fact that he survived as a claimed doc is very suspicious. I definitely agree that a real doc should not counterclaim.

[Cass]

Sorry for not posting more. I've been very busy at work.

notice how nuriens drops the "nice but determined townie" attitude for a pure nasty one.

In the first place, he still seems quite reasonable to me. In the second place, Kuribo (on purpose or not) causes this kind of reaction in people. He attacks in a way that demands an aggressive response and leads to irritation. This is his playstyle, it would surpise me if he would deny this.
So it's hardly fair to throw suspicion on Nuriens for being affected by this playstyle. It's a null-tell.

FoS: Simenon

He's very blatantly lurking today, and this makes him my number one suspect, though not by a large margin.

Other suspects, in no particular order: nuriens, sirdan, nhat/darox2, goat. Mostly based on the analysis of interactions that other players have posted.

[Cass]

Oh please. If any other player had written the posts nuriens gets away with, that player would have been lynched long ago. Nuriens is just one crazed ramble. And you don't even know what lurking is.

That's just nonsense. Nuriens rambles, but I don't see strong scum-tells in there. The thing that makes me doubt him is his interactions with Habit/Pacman, not his posts. If they are so blatant, why don't you point out where exactly?

And lurking, in your case lurking in plain sight, is in my book

exactly

what you are doing. You regularly post some short posts, that contain a remark in general, or about theory, or empty (dis)agreement with someone. But add no content to the game at all. Easy to overlook, nothing suspicious to see there - aka, you are hiding yourself.

I'll quote a typical example:

It is never best to avoid discussions.

Argument is the only tool we townies have besides our vote. It shouldn't be misused. But you can't refuse to use it all together.

And scum are lynched over semantics. This is a game about language.

Some generic comments about theory. Looks like a post, but doesn't accomplish a thing. Now, that looks like lurking in plain sight to me. Yet you pressure others for 'posting empty statements' or 'not backing up assumptions' - it's just contradictory with your own methods.

[Cass]

@Sim - no need to get upset, I just explained why you fit my definition of lurker. I have no problem with short posts, on the contrary. This game needs more of them. But there is a contradiction between what you do and what you tell others to do. Can I not draw attention to that? And I know about your posting style in this game. Because I've been there. Is there more I should know? Then please enlighten me.

[Cass]

Well, maybe I'm an idiot, but I still don't see the scumminess of Nuriens. He buddies to poeple, yes, true. Seems like a weak reason to lynch him. Kuribo upsets him: a null-tell. I think I'm going to go against the flow for a bit and:

Vote: Simenon

I do not like his responses at all. (Actually, I think a lot of players in this game are getting way too emotional.)