Sunny 2: Rules of Im-peachment - Over!

[MURDERSUNNY]

You seem to think I should be pushing like five different people at once.
That's just reality. I'm working on Gyp and SS right now.

I don't think you are pushing anyone

[SirCakez]

IMO shade is when somebody is going all "hey that vote is bad" or "that person is fluffy" but they don't actually do anything with it. But these people are in my scumreads and I'd happily vote them if there was a wagon there.

[SirCakez]

You seem to think I should be pushing like five different people at once.
That's just reality. I'm working on Gyp and SS right now.

I don't think you are pushing anyone

Are you expecting me to come out and spam "hey everybody vote Gypyx he's scum!!!!!!!!!!!!!11" over and over?
B/c that's not my playstyle.

[MURDERSUNNY]

IMO shade is when somebody is going all "hey that vote is bad" or "that person is fluffy" but they don't actually do anything with it. But these people are in my scumreads and I'd happily vote them if there was a wagon there.

Why not try to start a wagon? You seem very passive.

PEdit: I expect you to not just sit on your hands as the game moves by, there is room between what you are doing and LLD death tunnels

[SirCakez]

How would it blow up in my face any less than if I just shut up and voted you?

cuz you're not on the wagon and when people were like "ok who was pushing cakez" you won't be the first to come up (well you might be now that I'm bringing this up) it will be people like Murder and Pooky

Yeah, see the problem here is that you claim there would be literally any blowback for being on your wagon after you posted a tacit approval of Murder's case.

Oh yeah I was thinking about this game last night and I remembered this post. This is another example of Jingle's stuff that looks fine on the surface but you can see big scum intentions behind it. He's basically setting up approval for himself and other people to vote me and then passes for when I flip town (i;e "oh well he admitted he was scummy").
Which is also just ignorant of what I was getting at there.

[SirCakez]

IMO shade is when somebody is going all "hey that vote is bad" or "that person is fluffy" but they don't actually do anything with it. But these people are in my scumreads and I'd happily vote them if there was a wagon there.

Why not try to start a wagon? You seem very passive.

PEdit: I expect you to not just sit on your hands as the game moves by, there is room between what you are doing and LLD death tunnels

I don't understand what you're expecting me to do here. "start a wagon" like how? Write a case? I only do that rarely.

[MURDERSUNNY]

y'all get to see something rare. a sircakez readslist!

town - pink ball, morning tweet, spf
nulltown - spring breeze, jake, midwaybear
null - murdersunny, spring breeze, gamma
???/halp me/ever so slightly edging on scum - noraa, cheet, zaiden
nullscum - pooky, jingle
scum - something_smart, maria, gypyx

oops I put spring breeze in two places
I think I will call them nulltown for now

A wagon is starting on spring breeze, how about you commit to a position on her? Maybe read her iso?

[SirCakez]

IMO shade is when somebody is going all "hey that vote is bad" or "that person is fluffy" but they don't actually do anything with it. But these people are in my scumreads and I'd happily vote them if there was a wagon there.

Why not try to start a wagon? You seem very passive.

PEdit: I expect you to not just sit on your hands as the game moves by, there is room between what you are doing and LLD death tunnels

I don't understand what you're expecting me to do here. "start a wagon" like how? Write a case? I only do that rarely.

Also it's already been shown that people are not listening to me this game.

[SirCakez]

y'all get to see something rare. a sircakez readslist!

town - pink ball, morning tweet, spf
nulltown - spring breeze, jake, midwaybear
null - murdersunny, spring breeze, gamma
???/halp me/ever so slightly edging on scum - noraa, cheet, zaiden
nullscum - pooky, jingle
scum - something_smart, maria, gypyx

oops I put spring breeze in two places
I think I will call them nulltown for now

A wagon is starting on spring breeze, how about you commit to a position on her? Maybe read her iso?

I haven't read up yet I was just addressing stuff on this page. I can do this.

[SirCakez]

I want to preface this wall @SS by saying that I don't think this is being productive anymore and if you're town here you should go off and do your own thing because this conversation isn't changing my mind.

First question was me doing the same thing I'm doing now, trying to get into the actual meat of your scumread. I can understand that being annoying, but it was literally just me trying to find out what you wanted.

Second question was a genuine question that I feel like you're glossing over. What would be the advantage to me, as scum, faking a townread on someone I didn't genuinely think was behaving in a towny way? I think I would expect resistance to that read and probably confusion over it to almost certainly follow.

I can understand these. My point is that I feel like you're not really producing that much with things like this. Noraa noted the same thing.

You don't have to. All that that argument requires is the knowledge that someone in this game has meta on me (many people do, of course). As long as there's someone here who knows me, I can't lie about something that fundamental.

Ok

So... answering a direct question doesn't do anything? What would you expect me to do as town, lie? Ignore it?

Again you're missing the overall points of what I am getting at.

Well... I would be. As either alignment. So it's not a scum tactic to change your mind, it's just how I operate. If you think I'm doing it as a scum tactic, that necessitates believing that I wouldn't do it as town.

Ok well I'm reading scum intention behind it. That doesn't mean I don't think you would argue as town, that just means in this specific case I find it scummy.

[SirCakez]

With PB's SB case I am highly townreading him and also respect his scumhunting prowess so I am willing to sheep it for sure. LLD just posted something in the Tenet post-game chat that made me think about how sometimes it's good to just go along with others to progress the game and then re-eval from there.
I also find cases of this magnitude are usually pretty accurate and come from town.

Still reading through it but wanted to get this out there

[SirCakez]

One thing with the case - why can't SB and Pooky just be scum buddies rather then SB pocketing Pooky?

You know, the point of inflection. The naked vote. The lack of explanation. The paranoia. What's worse than being scumread as scum? Being scumread and not knowing why. You convince yourself that you're doing something wrong, but you don't know why. You have based your game on not being judged, yet someone is doing it. You have no real insights to give and the guy who's scumreading you isn't giving you his own insights to reply to.

Really good point.

Ok after reading that PB can have my vote. I have faith in him and the case has good reasoning.
VOTE: Spring Breeze

[MURDERSUNNY]

I'm interested in what originally made you null town there and what in the case you specifically found convincing and why you missed it before.

[SirCakez]

Murder is the meta your whole case on me or is there something else?

You don't have any real SRs from my POV

Did you read my readslist

Ok let's take a look

y'all get to see something rare. a sircakez readslist!

town - pink ball, morning tweet, spf
nulltown - spring breeze, jake, midwaybear
null - murdersunny, spring breeze, gamma
???/halp me/ever so slightly edging on scum - noraa, cheet, zaiden
nullscum - pooky, jingle
scum - something_smart, maria, gypyx

Spoiler: everything you've said about Pooky

I am disliking Pooky's entrance here even if you completely separate his wonky push on me
my teammates also think Pink Ball is obvious town btw and I 75% agree
*snip*

im comfortable calling cake scum at this point. wtf is with all the wagon hopping.

PRAISE JEEBUS

pooky ur gonna go into the scumbin if you sheep this literally proven to be a lie Noraa post
*snip*

I keep reading cakez comments that feel like they r just echoing somebody else in the thread and agreeing with them - it's like he's a mirror and not actually pushing something that he's thinking about.

scum have used this exact logic to push me before
*snip*

Cake and Maria are scum together

VOTE: Cake

FLAREON FRIEND ROLLED TOWN REJOICE ~!!!!!

this seems faked

Did I miss anything or was it just these two posts?

Spoiler: Everything about Jingle

Why wouldn't you choose to go after someone who's been a little less contentful (like Clidd/Morning Tweet, for example.)

I don't know how I feel about being left out of {lowpostingexamples} while you included someone who's not actually in this game.

Yo this seems very LAMIST

I already didn't like Jingles opening

*snip*
I was keeping this in my pocket but this wall seems so fake

VOTE: Jingle

Pretty obvious scum tbh. That vote on me is actually like absolute crap. I expect better from jingle.

Jingle is scummy but this OMGUS is shit

Also unwnd and me both agree Jingle has openly tried to pocket people like Cakez (and is doing it successfully)

Honestly, just take a glance at Jingles iso and read it slowly. I have it written another way in my notes but my teammates is funnier so:

'Everything Jingle types looks like a scummy cars saleman trying to sell me a rip off on words alone'

i still think Jingle is scummy

I think I want to stick to the gyp wagon despite my suspicions of jingle and noraa
I have a good feeeling about it

*snip*

*snip*

if Zaiden is indeed scum it is definitely with Jingle I think
*snip*

You're just kind of calling him scummy, no substance.

Spoiler: SS

Currently what I think is that jingle thinks I'm a pr and that's why he's pushing me.

Right, because nothing's easier to mis-exe than a PR.

I think he said to stop crumbing because that's a townie thing to say.
But the fact that he then goes after someone that he apparently thinks crumbed is just weird?

You know, I actually vibe with this reasoning. I would like to see Jingle address this.

why is every post you make a snipey one-liner? :3

Because concision is a virtue.

S_S is making a lot of nothingburger posts like these
where is the content S_S?
*snip*

*snip*

sure but also what are your reads tho?

Check out S_S for me thanks. I haven't been wrong on this read and I'm pretty sure he's a wolf again

Ah jeez S_S has been a hot topic on our team. xtoxm agrees with you

ok S_S is officially in the scum pile thx

Not a lot here either?

Spoiler: Maria

Creature thinks Gamma, Gyp and Maria are suspiciously

Yeah good call on Maria SB
Creature raised some good points against her in our PT
Cheet's desire to sheep her is suspicious

I think it's weird that Maria has been townread by many for seemingly little reason yes

I don't really know what my read on Maria is but at least she's not SRing me for shit reasons is kinda my opinion on it.

Noraa this is such garbage and you know it
even if you are town you need to seriously rework whatever it is you're doing here

Yeah but why go to her immediately?

Townblocking, I'm following my gut on Maria because it's been marginally okay on reading her previously, I think Maria's a good townplayer/was confident about her read and Zaiden was not a townread.

do you TR Maria here now?

Imagine getting called sus cause 2 people townread each other and want to sheep/bounce reads off each other. Wild

this is a nasty mischaracterization

*snip*

It's very amusing to hear that kind of argument since you couldn't get further from my personality if you tried. Anyway it's not like I'm going to be the day 1 fade. I can care less if you TR me or have me at null branch off me to more important matters unless you really find this so pressing.

really hate this post

*snip*

Noticing a pattern here...

Spoiler: gypyx

*snip*

i got 2 of my teammates (petapan & hercule) to ISO gypx for me, and they both came out of it agreeing that he's a slot that warrants more pressure/pushes. petapan thought that he was living up to his scum meta by not appearing to actually gamesolve & by going through the motions

noting this as a reason to keep on Gypyx

*snip*

there's like two votes on you. this is not very good reasoning.
*snip*

*snip*

hey all, sorry for the recent inactivity, i'll be able to catchup soon

no i'm not pulling a Silent Star 3 i swear, got actual life issues lol

pedit : that ain't my scum meta lol

This feels like a town post.

I disagree its null at best
*snip*

I said this earlier to SPF but I tend to not overtly explain reads unless someone asks about them. So yeah you can say there's no "substance" but you cannot argue I'm not being clear with why I'm scumreading people.
None of these reads seem developed at all? Quote anything I missed (from pre-readlist) though.

[SirCakez]

Murder is the meta your whole case on me or is there something else?

You don't have any real SRs from my POV

Did you read my readslist

Ok let's take a look

y'all get to see something rare. a sircakez readslist!

town - pink ball, morning tweet, spf
nulltown - spring breeze, jake, midwaybear
null - murdersunny, spring breeze, gamma
???/halp me/ever so slightly edging on scum - noraa, cheet, zaiden
nullscum - pooky, jingle
scum - something_smart, maria, gypyx

Spoiler: everything you've said about Pooky

I am disliking Pooky's entrance here even if you completely separate his wonky push on me
my teammates also think Pink Ball is obvious town btw and I 75% agree
*snip*

im comfortable calling cake scum at this point. wtf is with all the wagon hopping.

PRAISE JEEBUS

pooky ur gonna go into the scumbin if you sheep this literally proven to be a lie Noraa post
*snip*

I keep reading cakez comments that feel like they r just echoing somebody else in the thread and agreeing with them - it's like he's a mirror and not actually pushing something that he's thinking about.

scum have used this exact logic to push me before
*snip*

Cake and Maria are scum together

VOTE: Cake

FLAREON FRIEND ROLLED TOWN REJOICE ~!!!!!

this seems faked

Did I miss anything or was it just these two posts?

Spoiler: Everything about Jingle

Why wouldn't you choose to go after someone who's been a little less contentful (like Clidd/Morning Tweet, for example.)

I don't know how I feel about being left out of {lowpostingexamples} while you included someone who's not actually in this game.

Yo this seems very LAMIST

I already didn't like Jingles opening

*snip*
I was keeping this in my pocket but this wall seems so fake

VOTE: Jingle

Pretty obvious scum tbh. That vote on me is actually like absolute crap. I expect better from jingle.

Jingle is scummy but this OMGUS is shit

Also unwnd and me both agree Jingle has openly tried to pocket people like Cakez (and is doing it successfully)

Honestly, just take a glance at Jingles iso and read it slowly. I have it written another way in my notes but my teammates is funnier so:

'Everything Jingle types looks like a scummy cars saleman trying to sell me a rip off on words alone'

i still think Jingle is scummy

I think I want to stick to the gyp wagon despite my suspicions of jingle and noraa
I have a good feeeling about it

*snip*

*snip*

if Zaiden is indeed scum it is definitely with Jingle I think
*snip*

You're just kind of calling him scummy, no substance.

Spoiler: SS

Currently what I think is that jingle thinks I'm a pr and that's why he's pushing me.

Right, because nothing's easier to mis-exe than a PR.

I think he said to stop crumbing because that's a townie thing to say.
But the fact that he then goes after someone that he apparently thinks crumbed is just weird?

You know, I actually vibe with this reasoning. I would like to see Jingle address this.

why is every post you make a snipey one-liner? :3

Because concision is a virtue.

S_S is making a lot of nothingburger posts like these
where is the content S_S?
*snip*

*snip*

sure but also what are your reads tho?

Check out S_S for me thanks. I haven't been wrong on this read and I'm pretty sure he's a wolf again

Ah jeez S_S has been a hot topic on our team. xtoxm agrees with you

ok S_S is officially in the scum pile thx

Not a lot here either?

Spoiler: Maria

Creature thinks Gamma, Gyp and Maria are suspiciously

Yeah good call on Maria SB
Creature raised some good points against her in our PT
Cheet's desire to sheep her is suspicious

I think it's weird that Maria has been townread by many for seemingly little reason yes

I don't really know what my read on Maria is but at least she's not SRing me for shit reasons is kinda my opinion on it.

Noraa this is such garbage and you know it
even if you are town you need to seriously rework whatever it is you're doing here

Yeah but why go to her immediately?

Townblocking, I'm following my gut on Maria because it's been marginally okay on reading her previously, I think Maria's a good townplayer/was confident about her read and Zaiden was not a townread.

do you TR Maria here now?

Imagine getting called sus cause 2 people townread each other and want to sheep/bounce reads off each other. Wild

this is a nasty mischaracterization

*snip*

It's very amusing to hear that kind of argument since you couldn't get further from my personality if you tried. Anyway it's not like I'm going to be the day 1 fade. I can care less if you TR me or have me at null branch off me to more important matters unless you really find this so pressing.

really hate this post

*snip*

Noticing a pattern here...

Spoiler: gypyx

*snip*

i got 2 of my teammates (petapan & hercule) to ISO gypx for me, and they both came out of it agreeing that he's a slot that warrants more pressure/pushes. petapan thought that he was living up to his scum meta by not appearing to actually gamesolve & by going through the motions

noting this as a reason to keep on Gypyx

*snip*

there's like two votes on you. this is not very good reasoning.
*snip*

*snip*

hey all, sorry for the recent inactivity, i'll be able to catchup soon

no i'm not pulling a Silent Star 3 i swear, got actual life issues lol

pedit : that ain't my scum meta lol

This feels like a town post.

I disagree its null at best
*snip*

None of these reads seem developed at all? Quote anything I missed (from pre-readlist) though.

I said this earlier to SPF but I tend to not overtly explain reads unless someone asks about them. So yeah you can say there's no "substance" but you cannot argue I'm not being clear with why I'm scumreading people.


Oops
Fixed

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

One thing with the case - why can't SB and Pooky just be scum buddies rather then SB pocketing Pooky?

this would be dope.

I could just flirt shamelessly with Kanna in the scum PT instead of having to do it in public :3

[SirCakez]

I'm interested in what originally made you null town there and what in the case you specifically found convincing and why you missed it before.

It's what PB noted in his case around the "point of inflection". She started actually putting out some scumhunting and declaring some reads. SB's earlygame was pretty devoid of that (thus why I voted her early on).

[SirCakez]

I have not been trying here tbh so I will try to step up
I will note Gypyx's shift onto me looks awful considering I've been on him most of the game

i was on you since quite some time though, why didn't you point this out before?

I didn't realize. Call it your voteshift then.

[SirCakez]

Cake and Maria are scum together

VOTE: Cake

VOTE: Cakez

i can get behind that

At this point.

[MURDERSUNNY]

It's what PB noted in his case around the "point of inflection". She started actually putting out some scumhunting and declaring some reads. SB's earlygame was pretty devoid of that (thus why I voted her early on).

So what happened between that early vote and the null town read?

[SirCakez]

now that TENET is over I can say I think Gypyx is playing to his scum meta from that game
<3 thanks for playing Gyp

y'know, the reason i was playing like that is cuz that's my actual town meta

You can't just say "my scum game was my town meta" tho
That's not how meta works

thing is, i was really playing as hard as I could to my town playstyle, did you even compared my 2 most recent games?

No I don't read other games that I wasn't in for meta because you just can't get the context of the game as it went on.

^this is towny I think.

at the very least it's a whole-ass mood.

I highly disagree and I think this is kind of an odd assessment of that post. If anything it's pretty scummy because not being able to trace reads makes it sound like Gypyx was faking them.

MURDERSUNNY - null leaning town
Gypyx - null leaning town
noraa - townlean
Zaiden - town
Pink Ball - townlean
Jingle - null
Something_Smart - null
Spring Breeze - scumlean
MariaR - null
PookyTheMagicalBear - townlean
SirCakez - null leaning town
Morning Tweet - townlean
PrivateI - scumlean
Jake The Wolfie scumlean
Gamma Emerald - null
midwaybear - townlean
Cheetory6 - town

Noting this for later.

ye pretty much Jingle
Also - I'm not gonna bash through Murder's case because I don't think it's inaccurate. just a misreading of what I'm doing here.

You should, or I'll continue to believe it and push you

Ok then do that. I'm not gonna write up something I don't believe in.

i don't understand this. is this a serious play at SRing Spring/kanna because they criticized you

It's TMI, not based on Infinity's read of me, and bad fence sitty.

Who is Infinity that people keep referring to?
I can see the fence-sittiness sure.

Maria, what do you think are the odds of cake scum here?

Besides the fact Jingle W means Cakez=T Cakez is still in his town game range on my notepad. He hasn't done one of his obvious tells yet. If that changes you'll know.

Still hate this

I'll hitchhike on this and say I agree and it looks bad for Maria Jingle team.

[Pink Ball]

One thing with the case - why can't SB and Pooky just be scum buddies rather then SB pocketing Pooky?

You know, the point of inflection. The naked vote. The lack of explanation. The paranoia. What's worse than being scumread as scum? Being scumread and not knowing why. You convince yourself that you're doing something wrong, but you don't know why. You have based your game on not being judged, yet someone is doing it. You have no real insights to give and the guy who's scumreading you isn't giving you his own insights to reply to.

Really good point.

Ok after reading that PB can have my vote. I have faith in him and the case has good reasoning.
VOTE: Spring Breeze

This is a great point and I wanted to address this right now towards Murdercat: this would be making preflip associations that are not worth analyzing yet.

Murdercat, I think it's pretty natural to start scumreading someone based on your read of someone else, but you can make the mistake of underestimate the scumteam's interactions. What if the scumteam decided pre game that they would buss hard the first scum member who gets on the ropes?

Same goes with what I said about Pooky: my point was based on a town!Pooky world because if they are both scum, my point would be invalid towards Pooky, but SpringBreeze is still scum, so what do I care about Pooky's alignment right now? If SB flips scum, then we get the chance to analyze her interactions with more detail and who gets more partner equity based on that. I already have one main suspect of this, and I'll announce in Twilight so you can follow that track in case I get nightkilled.

[MURDERSUNNY]

I said this earlier to SPF but I tend to not overtly explain reads unless someone asks about them. So yeah you can say there's no "substance" but you cannot argue I'm not being clear with why I'm scumreading people.

Can you sum up each of your scum reads in a single sentence? Not just pointing out things that make them scummy but actually reasoning showing they are scum?

For example, I'm not interested in "Cake switched reads on Kanna and that's scummy" I'm interested in "Cake switched reads on Kanna because they are partners together and he didn't want to push her too hard."

A lot of your statements are like the first sentence and not like the second sentence. Here's what I would say for you:

Cake has too many scum reads because he wants to distance from his partners while trying to push for a miselim and it's being passive instead of actively pushing a case because he wants to see where the wind is blowing before committing to a single wagon.

[SirCakez]

I think Jake's response to the wagon is moreso town knowing his history~

Zaiden's entrance looks town
Gamma needs to get something better then his Jake vote
I think SPF's more recent posts looked better

VOTE: spring breeze

I first voted SB here.

y'all get to see something rare. a sircakez readslist!

town - pink ball, morning tweet, spf
nulltown - spring breeze, jake, midwaybear
null - murdersunny, spring breeze, gamma
???/halp me/ever so slightly edging on scum - noraa, cheet, zaiden
nullscum - pooky, jingle
scum - something_smart, maria, gypyx

Nulltown SB here

So that was between page 10 and 60. So that's fifty pages of SB posting that changed my mind. It's very similar stuff to what PB was pointing at but I didn't read into the intention behind it like he did.

[MURDERSUNNY]

This is a great point and I wanted to address this right now towards Murdercat: this would be making preflip associations that are not worth analyzing yet.

Murdercat, I think it's pretty natural to start scumreading someone based on your read of someone else, but you can make the mistake of underestimate the scumteam's interactions. What if the scumteam decided pre game that they would buss hard the first scum member who gets on the ropes?

The difference is that there is a survey at the end of this game that will help my team win and if I get night killed N1 without calling out the whole scum team I am unlikely to score well on that survey. If I'm alive tomorrow I will obviously be reevaluating but it's not enough to just win this game, I need to be the town member driving the win as well.